As normal, the answer turns out to be so painfully, staring-us-all-in-the-face obvious that it’s almost embarrassing to type.
From what I can see, the most likely scenario is that the Somerton Man’s surname was surely…
Штейн
i.e., that he was a Russian merchant seaman called Stein, who I believe died from natural causes (possibly, as Byron Deveson suggests, of neurosyphilis) in the Glenelg house of Jessica Harkness during the evening of 30th November 1948.
The reason is that I suspect “JEStyn” = “J(essica) E(llen) Штейн”, and that the two met in Royal North Shore Hospital Sydney, where she was a trainee nurse and he was a patient (where, pace Byron Deveson, he was perhaps having his syphilis treated with penicillin? Who can tell?). Whether or not they were actually married, it seems that in 1944 she felt confident enough of their relationship to take the Russian seaman’s surname when signing her name in Alf Boxall’s Rubaiyat.
It’s a pretty specific claim, so how can it be disproved?
As you have so rightly written in Cyrillic, the lastname Stein began with /Sh/. So why would she write /Styn/ and not /Shtyn/? Or better /Shteyn/ or /Shtein/? Why did she spell it in such a way to make it look like a common firstname (albeit a man’s) when combined with her initials?
Also, if she is so confident in her relationship with him to use his lastname, why is she still giving Rubaiyats to other men?
So you have found Frank N. Stein. We will still need DNA proof .
Huh? Where does this come from? You’re the first to say that ANYTHING is possible but surely there must be some facts presented behind the possibility? I have looked up numerous permutations of “Stein”…I haven’t found one to link. Do we have some solid ground for this or is it yet another conjecture?
The question shouldn’t be “how can it be disproved”. The question is “WTF” – Where does this come from and what proof is there that it’s even remotely possible?
Part of me wants to dare everyone to google image search neurosyphilis/syphilis, but i can’t actually suggest that in good conscience. While disease progression varies wildly syphilis leaves its marks on the body and I can’t imagine those being missed in the immediate postwar period especially.
Disproving the JEStyn angle is harder, I’m not sure if its right or wrong. If anyone (likely family members) were to bring forth another example of JEStyn that was outside of the date range that would be disproof for me. While not disproof, I’d at least read any stories anecdotes floating around about what Alf Boxall may have said in private about that one time he was dragged into a major police investigation and interviewed about some girl he’d met before. You could also put a dent in the theory if you could show that it was unlikely Styn would have been the transliteration from the Cyrillic to the Latin alphabets.
The claim could likewise be bolstered if you could find a candidate sailor in Russian records from the period. I’m not sure how good those records would be, but having it narrowed down to Russians might make it worthwhile to see if the local Russian Orthodox church turns up a Styn.
I think you’ll find that STYN is a Polish surname
Why would she be porking someone with the syph?
Rosebud’s dead right about the transliteration of the Russian, and I’d also point out that English ‘y’ was then routinely used to represent another pair of Russian letters: ий (found in any name ending -sky, for example). You need an awful lot of special pleading to explain why the name Штейн should have been Anglicised as “Styn”, particularly if Jessica Harkness knew some Russian.
Jes in charge of Tyn/pragues refugee resettlement from uk to oz.
SirHubert, Gordon, T Anderson, misca, Rosebud, and even Jessie: all good points. It just struck me that there was an alternative way for all the pieces of the Somerton Man jigsaw to fit together, one that linked them in an unexpected way: and naturally I wanted to share it with you all. 🙂
Comment from Anton Alipov (that the spam filter blocked, I really don’t know why, sorry):
Hi all,
I’m not much in this subject, just noted from the abundance of comments that the “Tamam Shud” story is seemingly second only to Voynich in terms of the public interest thereto on this site.
Being a Russian myself, I can advise you of the following.
1) The surname “Штейн” is not rare in Russia. A search on vk.com (social network №1 in Russia) yields 2000+ people located in Russia and having this surname.
2) The surname “Штейн” generally suggests the Jewish origin of its bearer, cause it’s an Yiddish word (meaning “stone”, I suppose – compare with the German word “Stein” which means the same). Also this could indicate German origin as well. Although German “Stein” would be correctly pronounced as “Штайн” (“ai”, not “ei”), but it was not rare in Russia of old centuries to misplace the “ai” diphthong with the “ei” diphthong in words borrowed from German. For example, German “Portwein” is “портвейн” (portvein) in Russian, not “портвайн” (portvain).
To be clear, “Штейн” is not a borrowed word, it’s just a surname.
3) As I noted above, I was previously not aware of the SM story, so basically the clean start to me was Mr. Pelling’s post about the “clean shaved man”. The first thing that I thought on seeing the photo en face is that the deceased looks like a Russian. Only then did I read the wiki article and the story about the surname. Now I think that I can see Jewish features as well, especially in the sideway photo. Of course this is my personal perception and should not be taken as a commentary of a professional anthropologist (which I am not at all). I must admit that it’s speculative. Oftentimes one’s personal appearance is misguiding in regard to his ethnic roots. E.g., when I’m flying back to Moscow from Frankfurt, I’m mistaken for a German by Russian tourists, although I have no German blood in me.
4) As correctly noted in the above comments, in terms of transliteration to English “Штейн” is not “Styn” at all. It would be “Stein” to reflect the respective Yiddish or German word.
5) I’m not proficient in Yiddish, but Google Translate suggests that latinized Yiddish “stone” is “Ştyyn”. So perhaps there is some link here indeed, but I think this should be proved or disproved by Yiddish speakers. Myself I think that a Russian Jew of the surname “Штейн” would introduce himself as “Stein” in English, and not in any other way.
6) The English letter sequence “Styn” can be a transliteration of different Russian letter sequences. It can be:
a) Стин
b) Стинь
с) Штин
d) Штинь
e) Стын
f) Стынь
g) Штын
h) Штынь
According to VK, no people with surnames b), d), e), f) and g) are found, so let’s discard those options. We are thus left with “Стин”, “Штин” and “Штынь”. According to VK, there are some 40 users of the surname “Стин”, 800+ of the surname “Штин” and only ten people called “Штынь”. Again, this is in Russia only, I ignore users from abroad.
Frankly, “Стин” does not look like a real surname to me, most probably it’s kinda nickname after some popular actor or football player, like “Ivan Messi” or “Vladimir Ronaldo” would be, you see. But anyway.
Now to the pronunciation and transliteration.
Russian “c” is like English “s”, Russian “т” is like English “t”, Russian “н” is like English “n”, Russian “ш” is like English “sh” in “shell”. (Of course there are differences in pronunciation of the respective consonants between Russian and English language, but for the sake of this discussion we can neglect them).
Russian “ь” is the so-called “soft sign” and just indicates that the preceeding consonant is to be pronounced softly. For those who don’t understand the concept, imagine “f” in Norse “fjell” or “m” in “mjod”. I’m not a language teacher and can’t invent more appropriate examples right now, sorry.
Russian “и” is approximately like English “i” in “me”. Russian “ы” is approximately like English “i” in “this” or “thing”, but yet considerably harder – there is no quite similar syllable in English.
Given this, “Styn” is unlikely to be “Стин” (this would be “Stin” instead). Also, it’s unlikely to be “Штин” (this rather would be “Shtin” or “Shteen”). Neither is “Штынь” quite perfect, cause it would be “Shtyn” (or “Shtyn’ ” to indicate the soft mark, but that’s unlikely in a signature).
Anyway, of these three choices “Штынь” is, I think, the best one, cause “и” strongly suggests “i” in the transliteration, while “y” in the middle of the word serves usually to designate “ы”.
Of course, “S” (instead of “sh”) potentially could stand for “Ш”, but only in the case when there is a natural direct analogy in some language using Latin alphabet – like the example with “Stein” above. In the case of “Штейн” the transliteration “s” is natural; in the case of “Штынь” it is not – “sh” would be used rather.
Also, “Штынь” seems to be a rare surname, which is thus not as suitable for a spy as, say, “Ivanov” or “Petrov”.
7) Polish (or Czech, or the like) “Styn” would be a perfect match. These languages use Latin alphabet, not Cyrillic, and the surname pronounced like “Штын” or “Штынь” would be written down directly as “Styn”.
8) I think that to make more definite conclusions, one should ascertain whether letters “E”, “S” and “T” in “Jestyn” are upper- or lower-case. Cause this could be something totally different, e.g. “Jes” from “Jessica” and “Tyn” from something else, e.g. from the surname beginning with “Tyn”. “Тынянова”, why not? 😀
Hope this has been helpful in some way or another. If you need any further advice in regard to Russian language, feel free to ask me. Meanwhile I return to Voynich. Shedy Qokeedy Daiin!
Anton: so… Yiddish it is. 🙂
Hi Nick et al.,
So about “Styn” bein a Polish surname … yes, there are people living in Poland with that name, but it’s very uncommon. Compare the distribution of Styn with my own Stachowski and the generic Nowak.
Curiously it’s most common around the ports and fishing villages of the north, so a sailor with that name would be possible … but even so rather unlikely.
Admittedly the whole dying at home thing is feasible… What if she harboured and cared for the poisoned spy?
Jessie = Jes Tyn= tyna one of her nick names.
Stay away from JEstyn 🙂
Why? Bit hard for her to do anything now isn’t it? Tiny Tyna was, from Abbott’s account, a prickly and unlikeable character who was very pretentious – pretending she could speak French but unable to do so after many years’ learning, etc. let alone Russian. I have revised my assessment that she had anything to do with espionage in light of his remarks. Seems to me she was a slightly cringeworthy Chardonnay socialist whose morals didn’t match her political persuasions. Would be – if she could be!
If he introduced himself with another spoken form of Stein – the way a typical American would say it, recognizing the High German shift of ei (still ey in Yiddish) to ai, but not recognizing the HG sound shift of sP>(sch)P (where P is any plosive and (sch) is the postalveolar voiceless fricative) they he might of said it as “Stine”. It’s not inconceivable that y would transcribe the phonemes a and i jointly into an English reading; Styn read with a “long” y. Styn as “Steen” is also not implausible, another English reading of Stein.
However, I find the West Slavic theory (Czech or Polosh Styn, maybe even something arcane like Sorbian) and the Tyna ideas much more parsimonious…
Jessie- u are a distasteful human being. It’s not up to me to try and prove to you which languages she could speak . It just proves to me how shallow a person you really are 🙂 . If you couldn’t find out a simple thing like that I don’t hold up much hope for u on this case. Your still so bitter. 🙂 an over the hill fraudster once said ” the truth is powerful ” .
Jestyn learned French all her life, but when her friend would try to speak it to her she never responded – she hadn’t managed to learn even kitchen table French. Are we to understand that she was remarkably more successful in her Baltic endeavours? So she did know Somerton, but she knew him as lover and baby daddy. Look at Robin Thomson, he is a dead ringer for Somerton.
Picking at another persons scabs. Does not hide your own scars. Now try to stay on track Sherlock !!!
Picking at the scabs will reveal what’s what – a fake and a phony who was unable to tell the truth.
Nick, for once, no comment!
bd
As others have pointed out the transliteration isnt perfect, but it has always been common practice for foreigners entering the Anglosphere to Anglify their names. If he pronounced his name with a heavy accent to an immigration official its not unthinkable that the official said “alright, lets spell that as Styn”.
Also if he was an East European of Yiddish heritage it might explain why Jessica became so set on him so quickly. She was a Jew in a country with a vastly Christian population and may have been searching for a Jewish suitor her whole life to carry on her culture into the next generation.
Can anyone give me an example of a word ending “-styn” which is pronounced “stine”? Or even “-tyn”, pronounced “tine”? Can’t think of any off the top of my head – “-yne” is the normal spelling, surely?
“Stein” and “Steen” are just such obvious ways for our hypothetical immigration official to spell the name, and such a person must surely have had more experience with names than most. Special pleading territory, I’m afraid.
I happened to catch a few minutes of football in the pub a couple of days ago. The sound was muted, and the commentary appeared on-screen as surtitles, clearly computer-generated because unfamiliar words such as player names sometimes came out as gibberish. I mention this because there happened to be a player with the slightly unusual surname “Clyne”, which the voice recognition software consistently interpreted as the much more common “Klein”. Isn’t this the kind of thing we’d expect our hypothetical immigration official to do – to write the more common form “Stein” rather than the apparently unrecorded rendering “Styn”?
(PS – Southampton won 3-1).
He did not have the physical characteristics of a Jewish male but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he wasn’t born Jewish.
SirHubert: conversely, you’re pleading a case from obviousness based on a hypothetical immigration official and your idea of how he/she saw the world… which is a bit of a stretch too.
Sorry Nick, I agree with SirHubert, -(st)ein would be the default for a name rhyming with “Tyne”. And what about his first question? A good one, I think.
BTW the Polish “Styn” referred to earlier rhymes with “tin” not “Tyne”.
Nick: the hypothetical immigration official was Shuruppag’s invention, not mine, and I have no views on his/her personality or history. It might have been a distant relative of Averlino or Roger Bacon – who knows?
With respect, I don’t think it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that any immigration official, confronted with the name Штейн, would have been more likely to render it as the common and familiar “Stein”, or conceivably “Styne.” “Styn”, as in names like Mostyn or Jestyn, is pronounced with a short “i”.
The signature has its “J” clearly separated from “E”, while “s” looks like the continuation of “E”. To me this suggests “J. Estyn” rather than “Jestyn” or “J.E. Styn”.
SirHubert + Greg: I accept your valid and well-argued points, but there may be more to the particular details of history that sabotages all of this, e.g. what if we transliterate from Russian to Hebrew and only then to Strine? 😉
To continue my previous comment:
Or “J.E. Stijn”. Stijn would be “Штейн” transliterated into Dutch.
Athough all these explanations grow somewhat complicated.
Nick … then it’s anyone’s guess 😉
What clues did you use to find a Russian name?
Was it the letter K? I suspect he was a contact for MI5 that found a safe house.
xplor: nothing very surprising or spy-ful, I’m afraid. People have speculated since the start that the Somerton Man might well have been a foreign merchant seaman (with talk of “Third Officer” and his stencilling tools, etc): all I did was connect that (eventually) with the still-as-yet-not-satisfactorily-explained “JEstyn” signature in Alf Boxall’s Rubaiyat, and suggest that the man’s surname may have been Stein.
Anton: true, but it is food for thought that the nurse’s first and middle initials are “J” and “E” respectively. 🙂
I’m open-minded toward any possible interpretation for the “Jestyn” nick-name. Just a couple of things to add…1) Many nurses of the time – went by nicknames. 2) On page 117 of 177 in Part II of the Somerton Beach Story (Littlemore), Alf Boxall himself refers to “jesting” as part of how everyone was behaving at the time that he met Jessica.
DA mentions a “tartan scarf” among SM’s belongings…Do we have a picture of it??? The only picture I have seen with anything similar is the bathrobe…was there a scarf as well?
For clarity regarding the brain tissue:
DA states “Cleland wanted to keep the Somerton Man’s skull. Not the brain tissue.” I’m not sure how this would even be accomplished but in G. Feltus’ book, page 84 (3rd paragraph) Feltus writes:
“Professor Cleland had requested that a sample of the brain be obtained by Lawson…” Further on he writes “It was apparent to everyone present that Cleland was very displeased that his request for a sample had not been met.”
Misca, Yes there was a tartan scarf, there are some images of it but not very sharp. I have uploaded all of the images I have accumulated over the past 5 years and there are quite a few images of various tartans as well as the scarf itself amongst them. I just need to tidy up the files, there’s about 3000 or more in total.
misca: I suspect that Feltus is right and Abbott is wrong, but I’ll try to check the coronial inquest report again, see if it’s mentioned there.
Nick – I’ve looked through the inquest reports and haven’t found the information there. I think that Feltus might be the original source.
Gordon – Is there an image of the tartan scarf on your site? If so, I can’t find it. If not, is there anywhere else where it can be seen?
Misca, I will be putting the lot on site over the next few days, They’re all loaded to a Drive account and just need to be filtered/duplicates removed. Give me a couple of days and they’ll all be there in some sort of order 🙂
I sense the AMA was designed to serve DA’s quest for SM’s exhumation which has now been rejected twice. If he keeps applying pressure via his petition the publicity might sway the authorities eventually.
It’s definitely all about the DNA experiment though, so some information may be with held rather than upset those plans. I don’t recall seeing SM’s blood group mentioned. The scarf might identify a ‘clan’ name. No mention of DNA results for family members and I believe some have been tested. DA did offer the name McMahon for other researchers to follow up and apart from it being Robins middle name, any search may be supported by those tests. DA states there was a local bank number on the book whereas Gerry Feltus says the opposite and such matters need further clarification. A response to the AMA from Mr. Feltus would be helpful.
I will add that DA is correct re- Police. Without any hard evidence to say otherwise they take the easiest path. As natural causes or suicide there’s no need for them to investigate where no crime’s been committed. Those at the Adelaide Coroners Office hadn’t even heard of the case. Finding his name is not a priority for them either.
Imagine finding a McMahon serving alongside Boxall, in one uniform or another. Mothers have some rights in naming their sons.
The bank number is that of the Savings bank.
JEstyn knew a lady in NSW with the last name McMahon . They were good friends , and this is why her son was given this as his middle name.
Misca, I have opened a gallery of suitcase contents on the blog:
http://tamamshud.blogspot.com.au/p/somerton-man-image-gallery.html
The closest match to the tartan was a Lamonte but it was also close to Black Watch tartan. The McMahon tartan was Irish and nothing like the one in the case.
The tarton is from a Scottish clan.
Sm was in Nsw and Victoria b4 he arrived in Adelaide 9 days b4 he passed away.
It’s great to see such detailed pictures for the suitcase content Gordon. Do you know what use the loop might have.
Any ideas!
Gordon, what’s the “Tamam” piece of paper on the photo #47 ? It’s a copy put there to make a sensational photo for press, or it’s the original one?
(Sorry, if it’s a stupid question)
Thanks Gordon! There are a few pics there that I had never seen and the one with the tartan scarf is usually cropped so that one doesn’t notice the scarf at all.
Anton, There were two images of the torn piece, one was a copy with the edges folded over, this one was to hide the actual shape of the torn piece the idea being to stop people coming forward with a supposed matching piece. The second image shows the actual torn piece complete with original shape.
Misca, no problem. In your searches might be a good idea to check out US military tartans, they had them as well as Scots, Irish and even Welsh.
Gordon: nice little collection, thanks for posting it!
Could you possibly add a note of where any photos came from (where not from the TV documentary)? It may well be that the originals of any such photos might still be in an archive somewhere, so it’s worth opening that up for possible future exploration etc. Cheers!
Nick, No problem. Will do that over the weekend, long drive today.
Good work on your web page gordon.
Elli…Thanks for that ! Are you able to show us the Savings Bank number that DA states was on the book.
Also, if you say the tartan’s Scottish…what clan is that?
Re- McMahon…I’ve heard this said before and you are now stating it as fact (son was named McMahon after a good friend). This woman (McMahon) would surely have family members that could substantiate the relationship you assert. Perhaps you can ask them to clear the matter up. This is about the deceased and finding his family after all.
It’s not a game !
If as you say, SM was in Adelaide 9 days before he died, you must have a name for him.
If you’re not prepared to inform Police (and you have a legal obligation to do so) your information might be seen as insincere.
Misca: Just added the McDonald/Keane clan tartan. I will add the lighter over the weekend.
No chance of Cleland’s tweezers is there GC, or of Boxall’s Pacific Island sketches … Derek has seen them.
Xlamb, nobody is required to do anything or furnish any information unless asked whilst under arrest. Thanks.
Cui bono ,Who benefits? The combative apparatchik of the CPA was one that had the means and motivation . Having spent over a decade building a network of trusted workers and safe houses across Australia . When Venona revealed the cell within the Department of Foreign Affairs he panicked went underground in 1947 and did not reappear until 1955. The legal Soviet spies like Feodor Nosov were quickly recalled to Moscow.
His last wife was born in Adelaide , so he had contacts there. She was Peace Joy Gowland. Could Wally have killed the Somerton man ?
Pete, No tweezers or sketches from Boxall. DA has had a few meetings with the Boxall family I understand and that’s where material would have been handed over for photographing.
Xplor, good thought, if not carried out by then organised by, he was a good organiser was our Wally. The man with the hat perhaps?
Pete, No tweezers or sketches unfortunately.
Xplor, Good thought, if not carried out by then organised by, he was a good organiser was our Wally. The man with the hat perhaps?
Gordon – Great additions to the collection! Lots of things that I hadn’t noticed and many more things to explore…Thanks!
Xplor – As good a theory as any! Peace Joy was a stenographer…kind of like Frances Bernie Scott. Have you managed to find where she might have worked during that period?
Gordon. Are you sure that the loop in the photograph isn’t from one of the ends of that strop ?
Had the Somerton man been a Soviet he would have three choices , return to Moscow, defection or commit suicide,
Wally sold sporting goods in his youth and was a fisherman after he was no longer needed by the Soviets. Wally was not as milktoast as he looked.
Misca, Thanks, still more to load but will have to wait a few days.
Courage, What I see is a loupe attached to a section of black twisted cord and on the inside of the loupe are what appear to be metal grips to hold a lens. Somewhere I have an image of a similar looking loop and will dig it out. A good thought though and worth considering.
Jessie: Why would anyone contributing to this site come under arrest ?
I took my information to Police. The process is ongoing. Derek Abbott has well and truly made himself known to all; Gordon’s made his findings Public and Gerry Feltus was once ‘Police’. There’s others who have presented either a name or information to Police for investigation and no-one’s been arrested in the process, so I fail to understand your point. Only a few days ago you called Elli “a distasteful human being” and a few other things for reasons unknown.
This site wears the title ….
“And the Somerton Man’s Surname was…”.
Elli is stating SM was in Adelaide 9 days before he died. You can’t know that without a name.
Crime Stoppers will take information anonymously.
Others on this site can also help follow up Elli’s leads.
Everyone here volunteers their time, effort and information. No-one is ‘required’ to contribute to this site either.
Elli wanted to add something important and is free to continue. My questions were addressed to Elli.
Peace started working as a typist for the party in Adelaide. Then moved to Sydney to work in the CPA office where her brother George introduced her to Wally. After Wally went underground the CPA found her another job. Wally was something of a ladies’ man.
Courage & Friendship, I have just posted a close up of the end of the razor strop in suitcase contents, it shows that it is a triangular ‘wire’ shape unlike the loupe. It was a good thought though and worth the comment.
Xlamb, you said someone was legally required or obliged to go to the Police with information. This is not true. Please stop going off on tangents. Please also confirm whether it is true that Adelaide Major Crime detectives as well as the South Australian Coroner’s Office have both required you to cease telephoning and contacting them? Can you confirm that nothing has come of your claims about HC Reynolds and can you further explain what your relationship is with Janette Roads Stevens, if any? [Additional troll bait commentry removed]
I had another look at that loupe gordon. It does seem that it is something else apart from the strop. Good work.
The micro writing stuff is so far fetched. It’s embarrassing. A bad theory into which far too much time has been invested and arguably as rubbish as ‘it’s time to move to South Australia Mosley street’. Can we just drop both retarded red herrings? Sorry to be blunt….
Jessie; Arguing your ‘rights’ re- Police has you sound very young. Or have you reasons to fear Police, and can’t disclose here.
If you can assist with investigations, it’s a moral responsibility as I see it.
I’d also think the moderator’s intentions is to open discussions in order to help move things forward; not see it be bogged down by insults and disruption, or to have anyone with information to be dissuaded from going to Police. What motivates you to be here Jesse ?
Have you any information that might help?
I was hoping we’d hear back from Elli.
To answer your questions…Re- Police / Coroner…
No! I’ve not been told to buzz off. It’s not how a Government Authority would conduct themselves in any case and childish to suggest.
Re- Janette Stevens…That’s someone I emailed (a while back), after her site was pointed out to me by another. It soon became very apparent that we were at opposites, and I ceased communication. I’ve seen others remark they had problems with Janette also, so I’m not alone there. J.S. was much too scary for me! I’ve read since that some think we are the same person. To clarify…I have no, nor do I wish to have any relationship to or with, Janette Stevens. Police would not deal with me, if I were her (two people).
That’s obvious I think.
Re-Reynolds I.D…If you want to know what’s going on behind the scenes, call them yourself. I don’t intend to disclose anything more than to say, SM’s identity remains under investigation. Police have not disputed or dismissed Maciej Hennebergs findings meanwhile and it remains on Police and Public record along with other material that has emerged since. It’s never been established whether the chap named on the I.D. is the same as shown in the photo.
A comparative photo (at any age) is required to be certain.
Nick and others who are interested, I have added copies of the torn piece and the book cover plus comparisons with a similar version of the book on to the gallery just now. I will add more. Most of these images came from various groups plus some additional research. News Ltd has an archive from which you can get copies of some of the Somerton Man images but I believe you have to pay for some.
Obvious sources include Trove and NAA. I have a list of Trove links and will publish them this week.
Funny then Ruth that on your sisters blog it is stated that sapol has told you all to clear off and same with coroner . Can we stop this crap about the id? Different prople
Sorry Jessie: It was Elli that insulted you (as a distasteful human being). Funny then Jessie that your tag team didn’t pick that up.
My younger sisters letter you say? She’d written to some Politicians to complain as I recall, maybe to do with our eldest sisters death/suicide in 2009. Trolls are suspect. My sister will take your information so speak to her.
I hadn’t been to Nick’s site for a long while and the subject matter for SM has broadened considerably since, but it was you that raised the Reynolds I.D. … not me. You need to stay focused Jessie… stay in character.
‘Prople’ who?
I’ve recently seen your Troll tag team admitting to stalking, fraud and falsifying DNA tests (intentions extortion) on these sites.
Serious criminal offences are no joking matter.
Bragging your victim conquests on line was foolish, but very helpful. The DNA tests results are already with Police. Confirmation that the test was falsified (using stolen DNA) will be forwarded to assist evidence in seeking prosecution.
(re-“The secret history of Jestyn, and Willen Styn” See final posts 15/1/14 by “R.3”)
Was j/ps phone number that was found in the rubaiyat inscribed in pen , pencil or was it hard to see until it was exposed by the police ? Thank you.
Gordon: That’s a great example for the ‘torn piece of paper’ and it’s removal. May I suggest you refresh the link to your site regularly ‘as you go’. With so many related post happening at once, I find myself having to search for the link repeatedly and thought others might feel likewise.
In relation to the scarf, you’ve raised a McDonald/Keane tartan. Like many other Australians I’ve Scottish ancestry and this is reflected via my maiden name. I acquired ‘The Clans and Tartans of Scotland’ by Robert Bain on my last holiday there/Scotland. This particular book was first published 1938 with last reprint 1978. Looking at the entries for MacDonald, there’s a few different tartans and groups. MacDonald’ of Sleat, of the Isles and of Clanranald. The latter Clan MacDonald has association with my clan/ re-maiden name…What sort of clarity do you have with the scarfs’ image and it’s reproduction?
The scarf photos and suitcase appear to be black and white to me. The scarf’s label wasn’t removed. What was it.
We can never rule out items being introduced into the case while it sat unlocked and unclaimed at the train station, or interference as a means to throw any investigations off.
While I can find Keane listed at back of the book ‘Kean, Keene, Gunn…MacDonald’ (under heading clans and family names) there’s no Tartan shown for Keane. Mackenzie has a similar tartan and that name is also pinned to my family (I think I saw the name, but related to shoes). I’ve looked at so many tartans now I’ve beginning to see spots / squares, and each Clan seems related to the other. It becomes a bit confusing.
Freemasons have been raised by Pete before. I’ve also some queries. Is the Scottish branch in Australia worth looking at. Could the scarf be worn symbolically by members, or ‘dress’ used for important occasions. Substitute for a kilt and more convenient.
Could the loop help arrange or hold a scarf in place.
Gordon. Have a look at the “Jones” tartan. Tell me what u think . Thanks
I still believe that Alison Verco is a good match for Js friend McMahon.
Xlamb, Keane is a Sept of the clan Macdonald:
http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/m/macdona.html
Courage and Friendship, tartan could be close, the images we have are as Xlamb says, B/W. What matters is what we can make of the pattern albeit B/W
The ‘loupe’, could be a clasp for a cloak/scarf but such a clasp would have a coat of arms or a jewel normally. and would be somewhat larger. My guess is that the ‘loupe’ is around 20mm or less in diameter.
Savings Bank telephone number is X 1396. 79 Jetty road Glenelg. In the year 1948
Poor SM! Always a dead end! You may well be correct about the number C&F but, we have no way of knowing if that was one of the other numbers on the back of the book. Even if it was. where does it take us? Nowhere.
Tartans – We have only a black and white photograph. Many checkered patterns to explore to no avail. (McMahon, Jones, Kean. etc…) It could be anything – and actually might not be ANYTHING relevant. Maybe SM just had a checkered scarf like many other people did without being a “clan” descendant.
Alison Verco – I can tell you lots about her. It’s not improbable that she might have known Jessica. Throught TROVE one can chart an extensive family tree. So what? What does it tell us? Not much.
Nope. Nothing. Nada. Unfortunately for SM – nothing leads to nothing.
I still think that it was Wytkin that found the book and I think that somehow he was connected with either Jessica’s or “George”/Prosper’s families. Wytkin does have a family connection to a “Thomson” but I have been unable to connect it Prosper’s branch.
Agree with you Misca, lots of bits of information lead nowhere, the tartan, the make of the scissors, the glass dish, the button, just an academic exercise in many ways. The issue of Lawson’s Diary is, in contrast, intriguing and does lead somewhere by virtue of the apparent admission that the original body was disposed of by the Police.
Almost all of houses built before World War II had lead-based paint applied to the interior or exterior surfaces. … Another option is sm was reloading ammunition in the military it may have resulted in lead exposure.
I am an abductee from an alien race that came from the future.
Gordon: personally, I think it’s good to develop all these independently, as preparation for cross-referencing against the next tangible clue when it (inevitably) emerges. But what will that be – a hat, a watch, a dental plate, a letter, a photograph, a ship’s manifest, a hospital’s admission log, or something else entirely? We shall see! 🙂
Listen xlamb, it is clear to everyone here that you are a nutbag. Nobody in authority will talk to you. You are a fantasist and a liar. The Beaumonts in your father’s car boot? Get off it. You really should be ashamed of yourself for the fact that YOU terrorise that family with your absurd claims. And Gordon is a conspiracy theorist. There was no original or unoriginal body, there was just a body. Get a grip you weirdos.
Nick, True 🙂
Gordon, old mate, Mr Lawson does seem to have a few issues, don’t he. Like a bloody champagne cork, he keeps popping up.
Has any one ever found proof that sm is not Sherbakov ? The missing Russian from the lapstone conference?
Alf had two copies of the same book.
Good heavens Gordon, there’s enough names on that list to repopulate the Earth. I was beginning to wondering when Clan Adam and Eve might pop up. The book I have is more in keeping with principal clans and family braches.
I think from the business perspective of selling kilts, you’d include everyone rather than loose a sale, and good that no-one’s left out. Kilts are having a ‘come back’ I think,
particularly with Scotland’s’ Independence looming.
Following up the pattern is about all you ‘can’ do in the absence of a clear colour photo, and worth a shot I recon.
Even contacting members of the Caledonian Society here might be helpful.
It’s always possible that Police with-held certain pieces of information at the time, as something only a family member might know. The scarf details might have been hidden deliberately. If it had a label why wasn’t that mentioned and explored further. Just seems odd.
I did speak to one Policemen (J.B.) and he’d examined SM’s suitcase and contents (with others) at the time before it disappeared.
We spoke a few times a couple of years ago.
During my conversations with him I always felt he was ‘up front’ and honest with me. He was clearly a very dedicated M./C. Officer prior to his retirement and the fact he was giving his time to help us spoke volumes particularly as he’d been unwell. I asked him if he saw the suitcase destroyed, but it wasn’t something he was witness to; nor could he tell me who ‘did’ see it incinerated etc..
I wouldn’t even know what furnace or graveyard “evidence” eventually disappears into, but I’d expect there to be a record kept of SM’s clothes and suitcase disposal and it should be made available to researchers. Somebody must keep tabs for drug / gun disposals etc..
Current Major Crime couldn’t tell me either.
How did you go on Father’s Day Gordon?
Any socks, ties, scarfs or nut bags!
Jessie: I’m going to have to report you to my therapist!
Talking conspiracies…One brave man, author Frank Walker, has uncovered the truth of our past and his latest book “Maralinga” is worth getting hold of.
Seems U.S.A. & U.K. & Australia Governments conspired together to gather up bones / cadaver during 50’s/60’s & 70’s.
Babies, toddlers, teenagers were more prized, but up to age 40 would do.
The bodies of 22, 000 Australians (mostly babies and toddlers) had been used for Stronium-90 testing. Once they’d exploded the nuclear bombs here, they began secretly collecting up the body samples to measure the damage. Family members were never told.
Even when the scientist had proof of the mounting Strontium absorption/damage, they continued to explode more bombs. ….
As if Hiroshima wasn’t evidence enough!….
Every human being has a duty to expose corruption, the cover-ups and public betrayals.
It can often take decades before the truth is uncovered..
If current Police conducted an AMA for SM, I might stop thinking they’ve something rotten in the past to hide.
Pete: It does seem that he has a habit of popping up, the diary entry and his general demeanour during the interview don’t really cast him in the best light. Whether or not the Constable Dinham was Durham is another question although you would assume that Lawson had previous dealings with Mr. Durham and would therefore have known exactly wwith whom he was talking. Could be worth checking out the ‘Dinham’ name across NAA?
Aliens also came down one night and took Ruth Collins to their mother ship where they irradiated her brain with Strontium before removing it and replacing with balls of cotton wool. Friends of Ruth Collins said they didn’t notice any detectable difference.
I heard Phyllis Diller say that about Joan Collins once, we must be reading the same magazines …
Gordon,
there was a plain clothes policeman, John Dinham, in SA at the time. He seems to be the son of a SA policeman, and he seems to have moved to the ACT police in the 1960s. I note that Errol Canney also moved to the ACT police force.
Pete: I’m thinking ‘Movie’ title. One hasn’t a heart and the other chap’s made of straw. It reeks ‘conspiracy’ with connections high up with the Wizard.
Did you see that C&F says they’re an abductee from an alien race…Could it mean we’ve been infiltrated by Scientology theorist . Where was Ron Hubbard’s training ship docked in Nov. / Dec. 1948?
I seem to have lost my mind Pete and I’m feeling a bit light headed.
If you come across my brain, can you please scoop it up and post it back. Thanks! (p.s. scape off the Strontium first)
You should worry lambster, I only see my brain when it orbits by every year on the 30th of November – it waves and says Hi, got it figured out yet?Then it buggers off out of sight again.
[Lame insult removed]
[Another lame insult removed]
Xtreme Sheep. I liked your satanic theory pertaining to the Sm code very much 🙂
Have we any info about the dead mans t shirt ? Was there a blood stain on it ?
Yeh Pete, I sure do ‘get’ what you’re saying. I’ve been away from this site for a long while due to being throttled by trolls, and now doing a catch up. Each time I think I’m done, I see Nick’s put up another thread …and it goes on and on. I kept thinking “are we there yet…how long is it going to take” like some kid on a road trip. Some of your posts are pretty entertaining… like a little ray of light streaming through the darkness. You should be a writer!
Did you ever look into the Rosicross (Rosicrucians) and Golden Dawn groups. They were already around in the 50’s and 60’s that I know of. Adelaide Uni. even had the Rosicross as part of study for their psych students back in the 50’s and a lot of recruiting was done for this group at the University I was told. It was popular with young people, exclusive and secretive. The mix of art, Bohemian persuasions and Politics would fit both these groups and also those little gatherings in Sydney in the years leading up to SM’s demise. If you keep going around in circles, it doesn’t hurt to look outside the square sometimes.
I was glad to see you’re still on the case.
I seem to have become a magnet for troll abuse here and it becomes such a waste of time and emotions.
Sorry if it’s disrupting the flow of conversation for everyone.
Byron, Many thanks, ACT Police as in Federal Police?
A black and white tartan could be the Sillitoe tartan. He was head of MI5 at the time.
Xplor, It’s the underlying pattern in the image that may help. TI think uopu’ll find that the Sillitoe tartan was simply black/white checked and was adopted by the UK police for hat bands and associated Police items such as tape etc.
The dead man stayed at the Strath hotel. He had a thing for the Elliot brothers sister. Who was a nurse. Also worked at the strath hotel. The unknown dead man was sick. The unknown dead man was related to JEstyn, but was also in the intelligence industry. With a few days to spare he heads for Sa/ woomera/ Adelaide . Where he does his last business and decides to visit his daughter whom he hadn’t seen or spoken to b4 in person .
Ruth, you get trolled because you say wicked things about your father without a shred of evidence to support the claims, and you persist with a ridiculous fantasy that you saw the murdered Beaumont children in his boot. How cruel you must be to treat the family of the children like that. What a ridiculous thing to suggest you can then solve every other unrelated crime in the state.
Gordon,
it appears he was an ACT rural copper, so, local police.
If Police didn’t follow up the origins of the scarf in 1948 you’d have to wonder about the competence of investigators; the findings should be already on record.
But if Police didn’t want anyone to know back then, they won’t be telling you now either. Time and patience comparing tartan weaves or asking an ‘expert’ might narrow it down now, but I’ve seen enough crime and corruption in my own life time to know that bad things can happen at a local level. You don’t always have to look overseas to find where the trouble lies.
It’s easy to develop tunnel vision with the SM subject.
If you look at any of ‘boys/men’s club’ back then (40’s/50’s/60’s) you’ll find one copy cat ritual / secret pledge blah blah stuff built on to the other. Starts out ‘boy scouts’, and on to the ‘mens group’ (evolution of modern man). A sausage making machine of sorts and as every man knows, the one with the best and biggest sausage wins. If only men had spent more time at home helping out with the household chores, and less time hanging out at the Lodge.
An ex Freemason told me SM’s placement on the beach reminded him of Freemasonry. That is… any member that breaks the secrecy rules/rituals was to be buried down 6 foot at a chains length distance from the shoreline, with their feet facing West (a threat likely never played out).
It is of course possible that SM was tidied up elsewhere and placed in position. It would explain his being well dressed, shoes polished, absence of sand etc.. and SM is placed in a pose. He’s left out to be found and I think that’s the point, and may rule out the International spy thing. If someone takes the time to examine the local set up in Adelaide’s past, you’d understand the local groups and gripes. Freemasons networked well and had the better jobs and filled the more important positions. Police didn’t have much clout back then. Pay and conditions weren’t great. For Freemason…Well I don’t think you’d find any member left in jail for long.
However SM died, accidental or not, I do think it’s possible that an ‘opportunity’ was taken with the corpse. Not quite the proportions seen in ‘operation mincemeat’ but I can’t help thinking someone or some group has taken opportunity to stick it up the other, and a bit of a sting takes place.
Byron, Thanks for that, seems like he wanted to finish his Policing days in a nice place.
Another Detective from South Australia, not mentioned in the SM case as far as I am aware, is one Detective Senior Constable Ray Whitrod. He went on to bigger things eventually but interestingly in 1949 he was recruited to the newly formed ASIO.
Xlamb, instead of pretending to be an accomplished PI, admit your criminal defamation.
🙂
I agree. Body disposal units do sound a little far fetched even for Adelaide.
Unless you’re Ruth Collins, in which case they are just part of a typical Adelaide day in a city full of murdering, Satanic child molestors who operate the whole of HM Government and the Public Service. Feasible much?
Gordon : it could be possible that the +1 in that diary entry was from CIS.
Thomas BOSWORTH
Missing since the early 1940’s.
*This is probably the oldest case I have on AMPR. Thomas’ great-granddaughter has asked me to include the casefile in case anyone has any information about what happened to Thomas. This account comes directly from her –
His name was Thomas Bosworth and he disappeared sometime in the early 1940’s. He was married to Isabel Harriet Bosworth ( Her maiden name was Fortune and her first married name was Thomas ) I believe that they were living in Victoria and he disappeared around the Melbourne area. He was a truck driver and both he and the semi he was driving vanished and as far as I know were never seen again.
From missing persons Victoria. Interesting.
Yes and the name Fortune of course being Prosper’s grandparents’ name
Probably old news, the hallmarks on the scissors are Joseph Rodgers & Sons from Sheffield. From what I could find on the web, an English manufacturer of quality knifes and scissors.
WOW Jessie
What is your problem ?
Ever heard of ‘cyber-stalking’ ?
Now run along, the grown-ups are trying to have an educated discussion.
KEAN??
Keanie is a Scottish surname
Not uncommon in British Isles
( also Keany )
Keane, Keaney, Keane–y, Keany, Keany are all variations of the Keaney Clan.
Originated from Ireland mainly Leitrim and Galway & emmigrated around the globe, especially to USA, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand.
The Finest Collection of Scottish Tartan Patterns
http://www.scotlandbytheyard.com/tartan-patterns/
Every kind of Tartan you could ever imagine !
Did you know that you even had – Australian National Tartan lol?
HOUSE of TARTAN ®, the ORIGINAL Tartan Website.
Home of the World’s First Tartan database.
http://houseoftartan.co.uk/
Elban: Say what! An Australian National Tartan! I had no idea. It might be worth checking out, and cheaper here than Scottish pounds I’d hope. Hard to imagine they’d have anything that didn’t require a kangaroo somewhere in the weave though.
That’s a great display from Scotlandbytheyard.
I can see my clan represented there also.
I did get word from a wonderful young U.K. woman who’d sought some help from a supplier and they’re checking the weaves, but hard to determine without the colour, and with only the black and white photo, but the negative did help narrow down the weave I think.
Police would have surely made note of the base colour, even if they hadn’t a coloured one for the day.
Thanks for sticking up for me by the way.
It always surprises me when others can see what’s going on, yet do nothing. Whether it’s another holocaust or it’s by way of the Internet, human nature hasn’t changed that much. In my case I think the bullies have won.
That’s an interesting point about the color of the Tartan scarf??
Surely there’s a record of that somewhere?
But alas – no response?
Yes xlamb it does seem certain posters here spend to much time researching you to bother researching some of the many clues left by SM
WTF is that all about!
One doesn’t get much more cyber stalkerish than calling one’s daddy a murderer online. Allan M McIntyre is a good man from a respected family.
Wow Jessie !
Sure didn’t take you long to disrupt yet another discussion with your nonsensical comments
Impressive :-\
So how is “calling one’s daddy a murderer online” cyber stalking?
^ rhetorical question ^ Please don’t bother replying unless you have anything reasonably educated regarding the actual subject matter
Urban Dictionary
” Cyber stalker
A cyber stalker is a sick and lonely coward individual who abuses the anonymity of the internet as his only possibility to molest another person.
This kind of breed uses all kinds of internet services like talk forums or blogs for chasing his victims. ”
Ummm………sound familiar?
Jessie: You’d have to witness murder in order to claim who did it. I wasn’t a witness to acts of murder and I’ve never claimed to have been. Your words lack logic.
You’re the one that’s making such claims on line and naming people, and I think he and his family would rather you didn’t.
There is no Golden Dawn. You were never abused either.
Yeah Elban, sounds like what xlamb and her sister and brother have done. Anyway, I thought the brother had died?
Jessie – read the quotes again, very slowly if that makes it easier for you to understand!
” A cyber stalker is a sick and lonely coward individual who abuses the ANONYMITY of the internet ..”
” Your words lack logic.
YOU’RE the one that’s making such claims on line and NAMING PEOPLE”
~Xlamb
Got it yet??
Anyway….. back to big boy & girl talk
Suitcase contents anyone?