Misc Stuff

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795 thoughts on “Misc Stuff

  1. your website is asom

  2. lyrabela on March 27, 2017 at 3:14 pm said:

    Is there a thread about the K4 cipher? What about McCormick’s cipher (I know this one though has a lot of debate if its actually a cipher or not)?

  3. lyrabela: as a rule, I don’t cover unsolved ciphers whose creators are still alive, or where the solution is known by one or more people but has not not yet been publicly disclosed – hence I’m not that interested in Kryptos / K4 just yet.

    Ricky McCormick is an interesting topic, though:
    http://ciphermysteries.com/2013/03/12/ricky-mccormicks-two-mysterious-notes
    http://ciphermysteries.com/2016/04/12/ricky-mccormicks-notes-for-6th-graders

  4. Joni on June 14, 2018 at 9:29 am said:

    Could it be possible that

    NCBE = (means) BE NICE

  5. Joni: given that NCBE appears so many times, it would make Ricky McCormick a very nice person indeed. šŸ˜‰

  6. I’m looking at a stone inscription reading OUOSVAVV and framed by D and a M. The Shugborough Inscription.
    Can’t find it on a query (bit like steganography) but I like the way to two Vs look like a W – reminds me of a code in another topic.

  7. Peteb: If it helps; The D and the M could stand for ‘Detritus Matter’ and the crap between, may very well be just that….How about..’Over Use Of Salad Vegies And Vine Vinegar’?..

  8. Dusty, the drover’s dog. Gitonback.

  9. Gordon: Share this with Clive for a possible tie in with your Bayard LeRoy King file. Capt? Maurice Paul Charles Bellemans U.S. Navy Ret. ex 7th Fleet Brisbane Qld. 1942/43 (18mths), was charged with high range DUI in Adelaide 2/49. Claimed in court to have spent 19 years Singapore as contract engineer and been in Australia four months with no mention of his war service. Post WW2 background suggests Clan.Int. sanction boss for SE Asia region until late sixties, with cover as retired yachtsman out of Berkeley California, Hawaii, HK and Singas etc. with Oz high roller equine connections in S.A. I Can expand if interested, but I have no intentions to follow up for my own home grown SM inquiries.

  10. Peteb: You must admit that alleged connections between one dead body on an Adelaide beach on 1/12/48, does not a summer make, nor likely on it’s own, to draw many crabs of the red spy variety per se. Of course, whilst our boss’s view has been to leave clandestine input in the SM case, to blogs such as TS/ BS that prefer an Int. Ops. based involvement scenario, it does not mean that others in the Pelling camp (muppets), are totally opposed to a bit of the old ‘tinker tailor soldier spy’ lurk…Now take for instance my latest offering of M.P.C Bellemans, the fake retired WW2 US Navy Captain, who sets up shop in top-end Adelaide with a bevy of bimbos and perhaps his man Friday Arthur, just a month or so before SM. There can’t be much doubt that this man’s timely arrival, coinciding with the likes of Stepto and son from MI6/GCHQ whatever, could suggest Soviet intelligence agent placement; That, or he simply knew nothing of the visitors or their mission, merely arriving with his US Navy Liason spin at the same time by pure chance. He being the consumate self styled confidence man, coming to see if he could make a quid or two off the yokels in such a dead hole, which I strongly doubt…. It’d be nice if some competent paper trail researcher could step up to the plate and give this creepy man and his fancy dames, a run through the old sheilas mags like Woman’s Monthly, along with the high end boating, yachting and equestrian publications for a literal Bellemans smorgasbord. That’s merely my own, always ‘open to any new weird leads’ point of view, so others can chose to follow the new intelligence if it presents, or simply bury their heads in the Somerton Beach sand…. PS. Maurice and partner Ray died within months of each other at Adelaide in ’83. They had been living at Larggs and were cremated at Enfield. Such is life, after a long career in the Soviet secret service or Mossad perhaps.

  11. The Bellemans couple passed in 1993 not ’83, both being aged 83 apparently.

  12. Precocious – I never thought to use that word until today.

  13. peteb: Dunno sport. I’d be pretty happy with 83…and by the way, if he was a spook, his backers didnā€˜t let anyone in on the funeral details.

  14. Flash: “Bakewell pasties – Theos fish cafe – Community centre – Jessica. Another alternate list of Glenelg hasbeens”?..

  15. Strapps Stripes: Bleak House – Thespians Society – Com ba yah Party – Danetta. One more impromptu list of James Ellwood Wannabee quickies for Xmas cheer.

  16. A big happy 100th birthday to ex Detective Len Brown. Wasn’t for the likes of him and his boss Leon Leane, we latter day, ever confidentl SM sleuths, would have little to do with our free time….If you have anything you want to get off your mind Super, such as the trick with the book and T/S slip; perhaps, we’d like to hear from you; Also your best wise centenarian’s guess on the man’s ID. The old gent surely deserves to have one for his own 115th birthday and your input might provide the vital clue.

  17. Flash: How’s about Jess’s big brother Ted Harkness MID for your Russian soviet ship counter mate?. RAN CPO and senior telegraphy coms. operator aboard HMAS Shropshire from 1942 until Tamam Shud, with 7th fleet ops out of Brisbane, and all points north to Tokyo Bay by my reckoning…You really seem to be rattling the cage with such a celebrious mob of ratbag anti reds, the likes of William Simpson and an equally wild bunch of lunatics. All of them pompous, former General Staffers and raving right/white extremist ex choco commanders, now giving loyal service to Judge Bill’s old school pal and ironically El Supremo Commie-in-Chief, A.G Herbert Evatt himself. It’s quite obvious that our own lad SM had no chance against such a determined crew of ruthless killers. All alone there at Somerton Beach in his spit polished Oxford brogues, striped brown Stamina Crusaders and Yankee feather stitched, double breasted jacket, armed with two combs and a punched bus ticket. No contest in my view, so yet anther soviet threat successfully countered.

  18. Flash PS: Actually, I doubt very much whether your Lt. Col. N.W. Simpson was ever known to Doc. Evatt, or as being head sherang of the so called ‘Association’. That figure was most certainly Brig.William (Bill) Simpson of Marrickville, the one I mentioned as having gone to school with the great man…Nice photo though.

  19. Flash: I acknowledge your stuff-up with the other joker and agree to Colin Simpson’s pre war (post perhaps) association with Blamey and the ‘White Army’ brigade. However my chap William Ballantyne Simpson, Evatt’s Director General of Australian National Security and Radio Coms. was continually a thorn in his boss’s side due to his post war communist insurgency reports. I do think he, not Colin, is more likely to be your main intended link to Soviet spy doings and I might mention that your secret Ace-in-t’hole’ Bob Wake, who dismantled the listening devices at ‘Terror’, worked under him. This was during the war and well before Bob started up his as yet unamed ‘The Show’ in late ’48 just pre SM. Reid became the nominal head of the new organisation which ‘he’ named ASIO in ’49, to my knowledge, and so you might do well to go back and make any adjustments deemed appropriate, to your last post…Cheers and a HNY to you, Clive and Anonymous…

  20. Flash: Not exactly sure about why we should conclude that Russian radio or even telegraphic intercepts of Australian troop movements in February ’42 would be tantamount to warlike acts of espionage. After all Aussies were trading with their soviet allies in all sorts of agricultural produce and even L/L war materiels, so non nefarious coded ship to ship radio traffic would not take but a tick to reach the relevant ports of Vladivostok, Odessa and Archangel in the normal course of maritime communications. Actually the red ship to ship radio/tele? traffic was deliberately targeted and deciphered for some time, from listening posts in NZ, possibly during the non aggressiin pact early days of the war….While I have your ear mate, pray tell what goes with this Bill Moulds chappy; He seems to have come to the fore totally out of left field, having no SM qualifications and seemingly for no reason other than his middle name is which is somewhat ambitious, If you don’t mind me saying it. I would further hasten to add that he signs ‘Jestyn’ with their being no similarity whatsover to the verse 70 signature….Have you decided on whether to include my William Ballintyne Simpson in your interesting, though nebulous ‘White Army’ report at some a point. I recall that it was Bill’s information, likely obtained through your very own Colin Simpson’s doings that allerted Canberra to the soviet/jap intercepts on the final PNG and upcoming Borneo operational strategies. Timing of course would have coincided with the krauts finally twigging as to why their ultra five reeler was no longer paying dividends, but not having the heart to tell their little zip axis mates from the east that they’d been sussed.

  21. Flash: You did say 41, then I mistakenly replied ’42, naturally thinking of a troop ship being re-routed to the Middle East via Freemantle due to the imminent fall of Singapore (15/2). You didn’t mention the name of your ship, nor any detail about Russian civil radio getting the confirmed arrival details from the intercept wrong. It does suggests some intelligence stuff up with the sailing agenda, but no harm done in the long run and looks like a 7th division troop reinforcement draft, was fortunate that they didn’t sail a week earlier.

  22. Flash: Hey, no fair man; You promised to share. No matter, we have deduced what the standout capital ā€˜E’ cursive represents. ā€˜Quo Fas Et Gloria Du Cuntā€˜ (suc) or Ginger Beer in Oz speak. Is that about right?..

  23. Nick: Thanks for the Misc Stuff diversion apropos totally unrelated matters and thanks to Strapps Stripes (Peteb) for bringing it to our notice. I’m luvin it!…

  24. Flash: Right you are with Dottie. The cute saying has been around for as long as I have, even a tad longer in your case. It’s Just that it had become my by-word for a description of the general lines of discussion between folks the likes of Stripes, Clive, two young Nth American gals, Anon. and of course your good self. Nothing wrong with it I guess, but just like ‘question time’ in the S.A. Lower House, boringly predictable. Cheers mate…

  25. sunandshadow on February 15, 2019 at 6:10 am said:

    Does anyone know of an online community where people CREATE ciphers and codexes?

  26. Flash: There has been much across the board enthusistic applause to your enthralling revelations re: W.J.Moulds OBE and his now confirmed links to the dual language Boxall ROK with it’s fascinating secret inclusions. I note that the initial release of his ‘Officer’s Record of Service’ document reveals little more than the man’s name, rank and serial number, with the telltale signature of course, but little more. Have you subscribed to having Major Mould’s main WW2 file pulled for evaluation as you proposed doing quite a while back; There seems to have been a delay in its release; shades of a possible classified security intervention, which hopefully you can clear through your own AfIO ties. In the interim I have made inquiries regarding your former Water Transport officer’s rather mundane post service architectural career, but I’m much looking forward to exposing links to his old 12 Small Ships crony Alf Boxall which would be as icing on the SM spy cake for you, Stripes and ever dutiful Clive.

  27. Flash: I’d never be one to pour water on your work old melon, but this Mosquito analogy seems a little over the top. I guess it would be just like the navy to identify vulnerable parts of the aircraft and simply apply four inch ships armour over those areas without coming to terms with the original design concept. I’m wondering if you are cognizant (your swabbies obviously were not), of the fact that the mighty Mosquito was, apart from it’s engine, mounts, undercarriage, fuel tanks and armaments, for all intents and purposes, primarily of timber and coated fabric construction. That in fact was the whole idea of it’s remarkable success eg. lightness and cheaper composite components allowed for higher performance along with better manouvrebility at lower cost outlay and greater overall service economy…Can’t see how the RN got involved, as they only had a few Mk. 39 slicks used for target towing. Far as I recall the Aussie and Canuck bomber/fighter variants were much alike, but used available timbers ie. spotted gum as opposed to spruce for the frame components and similar for the local plywood fuselage moulding…Reminds me, any news on B.J. Moulds of verse 70 fame. Cheers js

  28. Gordon: Of course your mark XV111 ‘Tse Tse’ variant was developed and used in its primary specialised roll of a submarine hunter and as such was was said to have been fitted with the additional armour you have specified ie. engine cowlings, nose and under-cockpit to counter effects of devestating submarine deck gun fire. This had nothing to do with Abe Wald’s mathematically configurated extra armour, as fitted to American all metal bombers as protection from high altitude attack and air burst ground flack. To reiterate my earlier stated contention, the main problem for the Mosquito pathfinders operating over Germany, throughout the intense bombing campaigns ’43 to ’45 was their inherent vulnerabilty to ground flack due to their complete absence of armour. Same applied to the Mosquito bombers and fighters of all marks with regard to dealing with enemy aircraft in air combat, in which case their speed, maneuveabilty and superior height ceiling due to lightness, could in many cases, effectively overcome the odds and get them home safely…..Not narking you old mate, but there seems to be a complete absence of anything even remotely related to Tamam Shud in your recent posts, which is why your thread responses have been relegated to the rarely visited miscellaneous department. If you could work your way back towards the general SM themes that you covered so well before your facination with micro writing you might have broken the back of this investigation by now, possibly on your own professional abilities…By the way you’re giving Len Brown more credit than is either fair or due to the man in recent claims for his description of ‘micro writing’ beneath the code. He was merely refering to the diminutive size of the figures of a single phone number, nothing more than that, and somewhat doubtful in any case if Derick had an input in the claim.

  29. Flash: PS: Please pardon my impertinace but, as the tired old fighter pilot joke contends, “The Fokker was a ruddy Messerschmitt”. In other words your shot up Mosquito profile doesn’t quite come up to muster for the type or any variants that I’m aware of, especially with the long Mitsubishi nose and give away Nippon top mid gun turret that aint no Mossie, that I’m familiar with, ever had. My advice to you my well meaning (I’m sure) friend, is to disappear the related, though subject unrelated, post altogether and stick to things more within your particular field of expertise ie. highly imaginative espionage concepts.

  30. Flash: ….”Make me smile” indeed indeed…Caught out because of three wrongly depicted ‘second world war bombers’ is no time for mirth. Of course your needle nosed navy Sea Hornet (Mosquito in drag) circa. 1955 was real though irrelevant. It had no turret and seems to have missed hostilities by a decade. Then of course, honest Abe Wald, your man “who helped win the second world war without firing a shot” (Hollings) was long dead, as was his countryman and likely old college mate Tibor Kaldor. The article that I think you have mostly quoted from, concerns the clever suspected nazi, inspecting B29s returning from bombing missions over Europe which would have been impossibke, shot to the proverbial shithouse (swiss cheese) no less, which likewise could not have been….Do you really want me to continue mate?..Got a grin on my face like a Cheshire cat just writing about your untenable position, if you really want to know. I’ll go hunt for that missing Mosquito turret when I recover and get back and appolgise IF applicable tee hee. PS. Don’t hold your breath mate, might soil the old Staminas.

  31. Flash: Nice little joust there sport. Didn’t have to end badly for you, which was not my intention and of course retaliatory verbal insults have always been your forte when confronted with your obvious limited subject knowledge. Abuse can be a two way street my friend and I’m more than willing to join in, with some relish as you are by now familiar…PS: Your having brought up past presumed sleights to your self esteem ie. Sydney Harbour at Taylor’s Bay, is quite laughable and reminds me of how you even managed to get ..’It (the bell) tolls for thee’ barb totally at odds with it’s meaning and intent, thereby exposing your inadequate command of English as ‘she’ is oft times ‘spoke’ in prose…to err is only human, and making excuses for ones mistakes ensures that we might live to blunder once again. Cheers mate, js.

  32. The plot thickens, with startling new revelations concerning a child conceived out of wedlock in Oct. ’46 between none other than storming the storming lieutenant, Alfred Boxall, jestin from the islands, and his adoring pocket sized nympho nurse from RNSH, who’s brought her part namesake Maj Bill Jestyn Moulds OBE along for an intriguing ROK book signing fiasco. Something to do with opium dens and 70 malays running amok at some oasis tent town called Taman Shudder, deep in Nahuatl country south of the border on route to Mexico (gotcha).

    That’s not all folks; some crazy mafia hitman, Danetta is on the rampage scattering tiny writing hither and thither to thwart police inquiries and contaminate all other physical evidence of Murder at the Rue Morgue. This in order to suggest unlawful collusion between two alien suicide suspects known to be embeded therein; Not only on a Sunday, a deliberate mark of disrespect to deceased persons of A & TSI descent but also properly accredited disabled visitors checking out the stiffs. There’s Littlemore to add except to say that Alf appeared to give the hole game away when interviewed by a specialist perk jock for ‘Aunty’ TV, some forty odd unproductive years after the fact…. Of course all the headliners, along with the not so dearly departed bit players are mostly gone to their (hardly) eternal rest. In which case some of our more senior investigators will undoubtedly pursue them beneath high ground for answers, which most assuredly won’t take another forty years, rest assured!!…Just love this Misc. site, all thanks to me mate peteb.

  33. Stripes: Dunno. Usually not before your crafty angler decides to set his barb, would be my best guess. Though I’ve heard tell that some snakeheads don’t get the message until they’re in the pan gutted, scaled and half cooked. Why would you be asking two dogs f……?

  34. Not for the first time, and hopefully not for the last, I find myself agreeing to some extent with Tomsbytwo’s umpteenth post on the life and times of Ina Harvey nee Elliott. Gerry, our lately silent whistleblower in the Freeman/Francis saga, contends that the old tart was having a lend of us with her fanciful Strathmore stranger incident, which coming from our, at times forgetful SM biographer is fairly mean. To counter this bias, I’d say that such an intriguing yarn, involving innocent attentions paid to a lady of a certain profession, by a handsome well mannered stranger, might just be too fanciful “not to be true”…. We could go on for yonks about the Dr. Jeckle’s black gladstone bag and it’s solitary ‘needlelike’ thingo and not make any further mileage out of it. However when y’man talks about the gift of perfumed talc to the desk girl, that surely reeks of some fancy foreign deal that even the whimpiest local ‘sentemental bloke’ would have no truck with; cept on speshal casions like when li’le sister Sal had her first red scare at 11…..As for the rest, concerning clandestine lurkings in the hotel vestibule and such, we’d first have to tie in the as yet inncoent ‘minding me own f’n business cob’ alien, with our actual inquiry but sorry sir nithingbto report. Even if the old duffer had provided some deportment detail or description of clothing or whether he was a cleanskin, but sadly nada on that front either….. I seem to recall that Ina used to always reek of lavender powder scent, which put me in mind of my grandma who went and got herself flattened by the Eastwood bus coming home from ‘lousy housie’ at Parramatta one night in ’64. Yet our grand old dame from the Strathy, reckoned, in her tell all, tell f..k all deposition of 1959 that she never opened her treasured gift from ‘a gentleman’ and still actually had it somewhere safe at home. It could well have contained evidence of real importance, such as uranium oxide dust or spare trimmed Tamam Shud slips in aspic fir all we know, which is now sadly lost. Not only to us, but also to abscentFeltus and the many other hard working Somerton Man contenders.

  35. Stripes: aka “Nickolas nobody from Byron Bay”. Some Swede had, by 1930 or so, relocated his Federal match company to Grafton NSW in order to be nearer source materials grown in a forest area named for the large new enterprise…..Now what does that all have to do with Const. Moss, Murray Farquar, Coroner Cleland, Detective Leane and the latter’s own well detailed quarter box (15) of Victorian made Bryant & May matches? You may ask, and with sound reason too…..Had there been any matches at all, is the question your team have obsessively argued long and hard, shrewdly well knowing that therein, always lay an important piece of evdence, long overlooked, but at last unravelled. Of course you figured, and correctly so. that every one’s favourite polceman, was unlikey to have bothered even mentioning the particular brand name and its contents (15 sticks) had there not been been a very sound relevant logic involved. As for John Moss, well, there were several very important things that he omitted to mention in his statement, the matches being one….A quarter pack of Brymay Red Heads would have told the Leane team much about where SM had likely hailed from and even whence at a pinch. Certainly not NSW where the competition Federal match brand had had a monopoly for decades, but most likely Melbourne and on Monday 30/11/48, according to the 45 heads allready expended by 7.30pm the following day. He had almost certainly arrived at Adelaide that morning in a smoking carriage of the daily ‘overlander’ train from Melbourne, which would accord with everthing we’ve been told by the newspapers of the day…..Care to add anything Nicholas from Long Bay.

  36. Flash: Bill Moulds came through at last and well worth the twenty bucks I’d say. Everything is perpectly clear now about his guise, though well secreted within the file as you point out. With my week eyes, I can’t for the life of me find anything regarding involvement in the Returned Services League, or his secondment to 8th Water Tpt. I’m also battling to find any specific reference to “outstanding bravery’ in his M/OBE citation which seems only to deal with devotion to duty over a long period in a non combat organisational role. Apart from the 25 page file which you will probably need more time with to dig out a hidden agenda, I do indeed indeed wonder why the mongrel went to so much trouble to disguise his normal signature under the ROK verse 70. Fine work by the way and I look forward to the follow-up with gleeful relish. PS: Other evidence of this man’s apparent untoward behavior can be found on trove, which you are sure to have spotted.

  37. Clive: Next case for Coroner T.E. Cleland proved to be our poor young Clive Mangnoson; Cause of death found to be exposure, as attested to through the coroborated expert opinions of Doc Dwyer OBE and Prof. Jack Cleland CBE, neither of whom was decorated at the time. Had there been people in higher places as you suggest, they’re not likely to be so high these days.

  38. Matches (Federal): Some really great relief for both you and your well read brother in qualms Flash Gordon. The Yanks never came anywhere near Sth. Aust. with their weapons of anhialation, prefering to test their ‘big boy toys’ at Bikini Atol, home to the somewhat less parshial Marshall islanders. The relocated WMB natives were very well contented with the $125 mil. compo deal, along with endless supplies of their staple (RAF) ‘Spam’ and ‘Tabasco’. A very good outcome for the partnership and enduring what’s more…PS: Rest easy Flash; I have it on some authority that the American invasion of Great Britain which would have enriched Scotland & Ireland immeasurably, was put on hold per Congressional Order No.1776 some time ago.

  39. Gordon: RSL = Regimental Supernumerary List (Officers), Courtesy AWM on line.

  40. As a matter of interest N242437 H.H.T late 24th VDC 2nd AIF & 3rd Bde 1AIF. Harry was in the 1st landing wave on Anzac beach ex SS Derfflinger on 25th April, 1915 and subsequently wounded (1st of 3) on 8th May aged 19 years. Later to serve in France until 11/11/18 ceasefire and RTA’d with original Anzacs. He rejoinded the reserves for WW2 as a Major following Jap entry and served until the surrender in ’45. Harry was born in Mudgee 27/4/96, with dad James working as a Rlwy porter. We know that he married Bertha and had relatives throughout Country NSW including? Southgate via Grafton, however he gave addresses in Sydney suburbs of Croyden, Arncliffe and Cronulla, dieing on 8/12/53 and cremated with Methodist rites at Woronora. NB: Having the same middlename Harrison, it is likely that Harry T. Is a great grand father or at least a blood ancestor of the charged man from the recent ‘Ides of March’ (my words) massacre. PS. Submitted bolster support for an otherwise untarnished family lineage; nothing more. NP: Post or delete aytf. js.

  41. Gordon: On 7th March 1943, BIll Moulds, was most likely been enjoying 40 days leave with his family at Manly (Brisbane), having disembarked in Sydney on 27th February 1943, following 26 and a half months continuous war service in the Middle East…The only other time spent anywhere near Sydney according to his records, was in April ’44 when he spent an unspecified period on a course at SME out in the bush near Liverpool. If he had bumped into Alf Boxall, it could only have occurred there, but certainly not later in the Pacific theatre, as Bill Moulds was a civilian when Alf left Australia on 12th September 1945.

  42. Peteb on March 21, 2019 at 8:21 am said:

    Dusty, Mould’s ‘unspecified’ time at SME … why do you think that was the case?

  43. peteb: ‘special course’ probably for tactical and climatic re-conditioning from desert to island/tropical warfare, including seaborne landings. Nought to do with anything other than adaptation of his trade army engineering skills. Is my fair guess.

  44. Gordon: I think you’ll find Bill Mould’s Manly beachfront leave address was inserted (pencil?) in case of re-call whilst on extended furlough to accord with ROs. This probably extended through into April 1943 from memory and I recall his demob. date as being 6th September, 1945 or three days before Alf left from Cairns, to attend his post war duties in the islands.

  45. Gordon: You’ll note that Bill’s leave address was apparently c/o his brother? R.T. Carmody. By the date of his eventual RTA on 2nd September 1945, he was once again domiciled at Eagle Junction, QLD, his former enlistment PoA back in 1939. Bill’s date of discharge 6/3/45, was actually six (not 3) days prior to Alf’s overseas posting and one might presume that this took place at Brisbane, where 2/3 Field Company had been raised at the outbreak of hostilities. I guess it’s at least possible therefore, that Bill met with Alf for the clandestine book signing, as the latter was passing through NCPD on route to Cairns for his own departure to Rabaul?….

  46. It might be noted that Senator Jim Cavanagh’s alleged bi-lingual (EEU?) informant erronously refers to BBC in his accompaning ROK code preamble of 60s/e70s. Now we have a well known poster connected with a dedicated SM site also making a strange reference to BBC, as opposed presumanly to ABC. In her opinion, spy’s are at work, namely Alf Boxall at behest of the BBC and some unamed intelligence mob, out to undermine Det. Sgt.Leane and his boys. I seem to recall that Bob Wake’s (ASIO boss) son Val worked for the BBC in the 60s/e70s and Big Bob was known to have visited with him in Canada some time before passing about ’74. I’m not necessarily in disagreement with the proposal, and I do find the BBC cum ROK referal intriguing indeed indeed I do.

  47. BS: Lovely little set piece interaction with a conveniently Anonymous handwriting expert. We may look forward to similar (out of character) chummy interactions, until the Bill Moulds relevancy issue can be resolved without Clive having to lose face. A well contrived little stunt Indeed Indeed. PS: Might we dare ask our ADFA and NAA pals ‘Barry’ to pull old Bill’s award citation recommendation file, to see if the original field notation compares with that of his ORS.

  48. Thanks be to that indefatigable sleuthful threesome Clive, Byron and Misca, all of whom gave peteb the (unwanted) true post 1948 details, we can finally declare our gay mate Otis Pearce (sic) dead and buried, hopefully right side up….

  49. peteb on April 1, 2019 at 8:47 am said:

    https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/taman-shud-case.983169/page-5

    You ought to get around more, Dusty, there appears to be a lot of it gathering on your shoulders.

  50. You only got the straight facts on your Otis Pearce (sic) Stripes!..The boss didn’t feel that the full yarn, “the rough end of the stick”, so to speak, was fit for publication, which is only fair, though they really did both die in 1985.

  51. milongal on April 1, 2019 at 8:11 pm said:

    @JS I can see where the anon is coming from (although I’ve been trying to ignore it rather than jump in, but I can’t help myself)….
    There’s two samples of handwriting both alleged to be Mouldy (neither which has been verified as definitely being Major Moulds). Unless you can definitively identify one of them as being Moulds’ then match or no match means nothing.

    I can sort of see some similarity in them, but I can also see some differences – and (short of an actual handwriting expert saying otherwise) I think on the balance of probability it’s the sort of similarity and difference you’d expect in two random samples of handwriting from the same era. Sure, I take the point that pens and paper and ambient temperature affect all sorts of style because ink flows quicker and slower (and equally someone’s current temperament might be a factor), but I’m a long way from convinced that those two samples are from the same person, let alone that either of them is Major WJ Moulds.
    And it will take an expert to convince me otherwise.

    2c

  52. 8109: According to reliable sources the Royal Australian Engineer (Corps) of WW2, mustered 33 thousand ‘sappers’ by war’s end, serving in diverse rolls, over all three theatres of operations. Engineer units were comprised of field companies, serving predominantly in support of the larger Infantry Divisions and were most often refered to as ‘troops’. Australian army engineers did not raise regiments, as has of late been erronously claimed elswhere. So to put all this in context from NAA records, is that our Major William Jestyn Moulds of 2/3 Field company Qld. and Lieutenant Alfred Boxall of 13 Water Transport NSW. Whilst being members of the same corps, they were never likely to have served together in the field as is being portrayed elsewhere. For such contrary advice to be constantly tauted is deliberately misleading it seems, perhaps in order to cement a conspiritorial federation between two fine men that never existed, being mere fantasy or BS, as the proposing brand name implies….By the by, your AfIO? designate number bares similarity to another Jestyn born the same year as our Alf, which we might call a ‘fun fact’.

  53. 8109: NB…in continuance…To the best of my knowledge it could only have been Jess’s daughter Kate or else Derek Abbott who first divulged Jessica Thomson’s alleged pseudnom ‘Jestyn’ apropos the verse 70 signature in the Alf Boxall ROK. Claims that it was Gerry Feltus who gave her the name Jestyn might come as both a surprise and as a deliberate slight to the integrity of the man, who always sought to prevent it’s divulgance. Theresa, ‘the nurse’, Tess &c..were about as far as Det. Feltus went to identifying her in his book, although he did once quote other players having used Jestine and jestin. So you can see that you appear to have been misled yet again with an inexpertly contrived furphy based on a most audatious though rather unconvincing scam; that is if you are per chance a real entity and not just a number.

  54. milongal: Yes I’d agree entirely, though the new comments on BS go even further by insinuating that Major Moulds was in the habit of signatorising his name in full, which is utter hogwash, there being not one example of such in either of his two NAA records. NB: You’ll see that his Attestation form is signed clearly W J Moulds, though his full name is written above and is possibly in his hand, but the obverse Oath section is blank, so we’re left in the dark somewhat. The only other obvious designated signature W J Moulds, appears to be where he signed for an RAS badge after the war. Similar printed and cursive script including the name William Jestyn Moulds does appear elswhere as might be expected and is so acknowledged.

  55. “……..and then I went back to the (crazy Somerton) seasteps and moved down them as cautiously as a cat on a wet floor..(toppling arse over tit through the hand railing to the storm wall below and breaking my fat flaming neck thereby”)…Now that’s certainly an improvement to your standard Chandler/Marlow ending Stripes; Perhaps someday you’ll get over your letter Q and matches too!..

  56. milongal on April 8, 2019 at 9:36 pm said:

    There’s a discussion (PB seems involved) on (of all places) BigFooty dot com. It dates back to 2012, but looks like people have been commenting more recently than that (I think the most recent comment is Saturday). Probably not much new there, but might be worth keeping an eye on…..

    http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/taman-shud-case.983169

    Not real certain what it has to do with footy, but hey….

  57. Yes Clive, that was AB’s first cousin. Another bike rider and mechanic, whose wife, also a Boxall, got into tungstan mining at currie, during WW2, while he was doing home service in NT. Two years junior to our Alf, he later settled down Yerrinbool way after the war and died there. We did discuss Alfred John Boxall over here at some length quite a while ago, which you apparently missed.

  58. Actually Clive, our Evelyn, the axis tungsten miner from King Island, seemed to have had a dad named Brown Martin Boxall (chess master) and her mum had a wee dram of the old McTaggart blood coursing through her highland veins. Eve died youngish in the town where she was born, so it’s likely as not that Alfred J. Boxall didn’t agree with her having the same maiden name, nor choice of trading partners…No Stripes, brothers hardly ever have the same name for some reason.

  59. milongal: I can’t make head nor tail out of the BigFooty (wrong game anyhow), site but I don’t wonder that PB has found his way over there; The TBT bog seems to have been taken over by drones calibrated for time worn repetitious dialogue; yet retaining the same old chummy Q & A platitudinous style which it has favoured since its inception.

  60. peteb on April 10, 2019 at 6:24 am said:

    Dusty … you’re the clever fellow, can figure out what this code might mean.

    796 4916 5079 3286 0

  61. Stripes: No code my man; it resonated immediately as being the wire signal reset number for uncle Jed’s duplex pacemaker which sadly malfunctioned a while back. Always a jolly and seemingly healthy chap, of whom I was honoured to be made sole beneficiary of his substantial estate when he passed. I saw the end coming although it was perhaps a shock to his cycling mates. Fortunately I was able to connect with my favorite relative, from overseas via my wifi link just prior to his passing. I missed the moving veterans funeral service; unable to travel due to the sudden onset of a particularly nasty gout attack, however I recovered in good time to tackle guilt ridden will & probate issues that accomany any death in the family.

  62. Almost there, old son, in fact it is a representation of a glyphic codex transformation index codifier that can interpret covert communications from parties wishing to remain anonymous …
    My information is that it will be soon released by Amazon as a handheld device that once waved over any encrypted medium will immediately decipher it it a language of choice.
    Sensational though this may seem, old Bezo is having some teething problems with the English language as spoke by those with the disadvantage of being born with a plum in the eating aperture.

  63. Peter on April 11, 2019 at 7:53 am said:

    I found something interesting. I do not know if it belongs here, but I’ll just place it.
    The attempt how missionaries wanted to convey the biblical story to the South American peoples. about 1600

    http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/de/thumbs/fmb/cb-0905/Sequence-1472

  64. It is noted that that our outstandingly couragous Major Moulds, seems to have missed a few ‘i’ dottings as well, whilst adding the odd floater for effect. I’d like to think Clive was also onto these obvious message indicators like a Flash too…In light of the new earth shattering ‘T’ disclosure, It seems that the galloping Major’s promised OBE citation has been put on hold for a bit, which is to be expected of course.

  65. Actually Clive, Errol Canney had not long returned from his Detective’s course with Sapol’s counterparts at Sydney CIB, with whom he continued as liason officer for some years thereafter. It has been infered that he knew Jessie and Prosper, which suggests that he had previous business with the couple. Errol worked as a debt collector when he wasn’t on official duties and I could imagine that the couple may have been involved in similar enterprise, hence the connection.

  66. milongal on April 17, 2019 at 9:02 pm said:

    @JS: Unfortunately I can’t check out Wolf. One of the files isn’t open, and the NAA site required me to flag I was coming so they could prepare the files (their reading rooms are currently temporarily in Old Parliament House (or MOAD as they like to call it these days (Museum of Australian Democray)). Anywho, so I cottoned on to the fact that I need to ask them to bring the files down, but couldn’t find any obvious way to do it on their site….naturally I sent them an email. They’ve now opened a case to answer my question on how I ask them to follow the process they’ve implemente, and – given most of Canberra has shut down for Easter already (ok that’s not quite true, but the buses are notceably emptier, the (barely existant) traffic has become non existant, and I’d imagine there’s daily traffic jams on the Barton, Federal and Kings highways, as the public servants flee to do equally as little work in other surroundings…

    Short Version: I need the NAA to take files from storage to a reading room, and I’m not confident I’ve left them enough time to do so given they don’t seem to know their own process.

  67. milongal: Thanks for the effort which is much appreciated. My Wolf’s been on my list for a while and more; waiting a while longer won’t hurt…

  68. How many times must we be subjected outlandish claims of perjured testimony by poor, well meaning John Moss, concerning existence or non existence of a box of matches at the time of his attendance at Somerton on 1/12/48. Actually the question has no particular relevance, simply because the good constable didn’t mention matches period, Brymay, red-heads, quarter full or three quarters empty no matter. Irrespective of what Det. Sgt. Leane himself may or may not have sworn to re presence of matches etc., in his own affidavit, there was never any suggestion that Moss had a case to answer for lieing, either intentionally or by omission… I’ve just browsed thriugh one early version of the SM case attributed to Wikipedia and chuckled when I read about there having been “… no matches found”.

  69. Had john Moss pocketed the quarter box of ‘red heads’ he could hardly be blamed, in light of recent disclosures, that the Brymay plant at Richmond had been in lock down since mid September ’48, only resuming production on 16th November, with an anticipated three months delay in supply to regƬonal centres. It would have been appropriate and decent for Det Sgt. Leane to deftly throw a spare box in with the other inquest exhibits six months down the track with production then back to normal, to cover any claims of evidence tampering or retention thereof by junior officers. Well done Lionel, dad would approve…

  70. Anyone who has digested the very latest TBT thread ‘The Logics of Defeat’ (from memory), will immediately note the connection. The interesting little asterisk addendum, one to which we have been reminded on a fairly regular basis, refers of course to the t’wixt knuckle abrasions, with conclusion by the author, that SM must have got a good hit in before being overcome…. Anyone reasonably familiar with the finer points of aggressive bare knuckle pugilism (ala Ms. du Queensbury), would be aware that it’s only the knuckle points that normally sustain damage in a stoush; not the soft webbing in the hollows which is protected by the bony bulges. In Dr. John Dwyer’s ‘Sworn testimony’, he only refered to two slight abrasions in the knuckle hollows and added that the scrape injuries might have occurred just before death, being of no significance, in his opinion.

  71. Not if you smack him in the teeth, old son, and you can take it from one who has had the experience. Only to cop a full beer bottle on the back of the head immediately after, followed by a sincere kicking … at least the nurses were kind, but unsticking the scabby noggin from the pillow next morning was an exercise in fortitude.

  72. Couldn’t have been either of the Mangnoson boys as they were somewhat difficient in the dental department; so looks like they’re in the clear…Ever heard of Heinrich Becker, a S.A. Liberal MLA, early seventies to late nineties. His dad Johannes was leader of the Nazi party in SA and Tassie from ’34 to 36 and was a medico who came to Adelaide in ’27, aged 29. Cut to the quick, he spent 5 years in Tatura until ’46 and was deported to Germany on precisely 24/11/47 aboard the migrant ship Heintzelman ex Melbourne. Only thing being he couldn’t have gone, according to the records of that trip, the tub having arrived in Perth on 28/11 and set sail from there back to Bremen directly…Chap’s fine enough to look at with all the usual Arian features, thinning hair plus a couple of nice extras including a few scars on one hand and one on the same arm. He’d had some serious altercations with fellow POWs and he’d made one unsuccessful escape attempt aboard a Panamanian vessel out of Sydney, before getting his marching orders. He told the Sydney Sun that he would be returning to Oz as soon as possible using an assumed identity, although we are unreliably informed that he died in Bremen in ’61 but who knows…Perhaps Clive might like to have a yarn with ex MP Heini if he’s still aripound; never know what might come out if it. PS: Comparison facial geometry with SM is OK, based on one crook Sun newspaper image, but scars are reported to be on the right arm/hand as opposed to Dr. Dwyer nominating the left.

  73. Not so impressed now with Jo Becker’s features, worse even than Otis Pierce, but there could be hope for one of his Tatura storm trooper mates, Louis Burkhardt, if we could just find the nazi bastard. A rep for Krupp Steel pre war and may have been picked up in New Caledonia ’39. PS: Not listed at NAA which is very strange.

  74. Here’s an idea that Ellen put me onto, full credit to her. The renowed Dutch psychic Gerard Croiset worked with Len Brown and Dr. Hendrickson on another case at Somerton back in the sixties (true). The great man must surely have had some briefing on the SM mystery whilst there, upon which he may have had some ideas. Of course the mortal man is long gone, but I’m thinking that his living aura may still be tapped through interdiction of a similarly gifted medium, over a ouija board. Is it likely that someone with such talent is known to us and perhaps willing to give it a try for a share of any eventual rights that might transpire. Just a thought mind!

  75. Just picked up on a little trivia, whilst patiently awaiting news of an imminent SM breakthrough. It seems that around 5.30pm on Tuesday, 30th November 1948, Just at about the time when our victim was settling into position below the purpose built Alvington CCH Stairway, a distinctly alien saucer shaped craft appeared out over the Alvington Plains doing some drills. Local farmer, John Harkness made some observations about it in the local press a week later, after vapour trails were spotted by other well regarded locals. Perhaps not really relevant to our case, unless we consider that the craft might have been involved in some form of semi clandestine operation that connects with our friend on the beach, similar to the celebrated Roswell New Mexico UFO deal a year before. Just one other minute detail, almost overlooked, is that neither John, a well known local identity nor any of his many relatives, are known to have been laid to rest anywhere within an hundred miles radius of that Balaklava/Hamley Bridge district. That of course includes daughter Jessie , better known to us as ‘the other Sister J. Harkness’, Spanish Civil War volunteer circa. ’36.

  76. Alma Plains, not Alvington you fool. Many will recall Keith Mangnoson having been taken out to Alma near Hamley Bridge, by his mum in early ’41 to rest up following his strange lost experience in the donga out Loxton way. I wonder if our Keith also experienced weird contact with UFOs and that’s what sent him bonkers.

  77. Gordon: Rupert Long was never Director of Australian National Intelligence. He was a proud Naval Officer and Director of a combined joint services Intel. group from ’41. This was a year before his coastwatchers commenced reporting the long anticipated Jap incursions into the northern Island groups in early ’42. Another Association man by the name of Justice Bill Simpson, Doc Evatts lawyer mate from Sydney, had the honour of being the D.N I. for Curtin’s Labour Government and in so being, reported directly to his old pal the Attorney General. I seem recall saying all this once before so it looks like some body else was also confused about real differences between governmental and purely military roles.

  78. Peteb: Think I’m gonna play stooge to the master of the last line put down, you got another think coming my man. I’m merely endeavouring to get my most humble opinions on line for favour of a fair hearing, purpose being to assist in an inquiry. So long as I keep missing your strict deadlines for copy, there doesn’t seem to be any real insentive to post. That aside, not a great deal of sensible argument seems to be coming out of your, allbeit fairly well laid out threadlines of late.

  79. milongal on May 13, 2019 at 10:35 pm said:

    @JS: I have a John Harkness d27/12/1949 age 77, laid to rest at Owen (half way between Balaklava and Hamley Bridge)….
    I assume this is the same John Harkness who despite ‘varied health of late’ celebrated his Golden Anniversary Feb 1949 (his wife’s maiden name was Read, incidentally).
    They had 7 children, although their names are not mentioned in that article.
    Someone has collated a whole heap of trove articles with the tag “Owen Families HARKNESS” for those interested….

  80. milongal: Crikies mate, that’s all a bit of de ja. John Harkness was Jessie Read H’s dad and her mum was Sue Read. That family lived out Hamley Bridge way and were connected with merino sheep and wheat going back to the days of big pastoral leases nor west of Adelaide eg. the Duffields & Boyntons. Russian Kate made a big splash with the SS Moravia and Jessie Harkness, the nurse’s voyage to the Spanish civil war in ’36. T’was all released with great fanfare on TSBS not so long back, then just as quickly withdrawn when the lark was detected and the co-conspiritors took off to parts unknown.

  81. peteb on May 14, 2019 at 2:30 am said:

    The Moulds enquiry is ongoing. Images are being sought. And I’ve bought a lottery ticket, hoping for a double.

  82. peteb: Might not have to go to blighty after all Stripes, we got Moulds by the bucket load at Uraidla-Somertown-Careys Creek up in the hills on the old Mount Pleasant branch line to Adelaide. Ernest Roy (Peter) Moulds, son of E. A. (dec) got hitched there in ’38, not to Jessie, but there was some mention of Trotters in the same Ad/ads mix. All this is fresh, so I’ll await expressions of interest before I take it further if that’s fine with your talent.

  83. Peteb: My Moulds were apple orchardists (pink ladies?) and tykes, unlike Alf’s mate BJ who was Prod/Pres from memory. Ernest, 1915/98, whose dad was Ernie also, never bothered to go to war, unlike the other six lads in the family who were perhaps a little more earnest and played their part dutifully. If we’re not on the right track here, you’ll not hesitate to let me know, in which case I’ll stand aside and probe other likely leads.

  84. milongal on May 14, 2019 at 9:01 pm said:

    sorry JS, should’ve clarified…. that was re your post about John Harkness and the UFO (26/4/19):
    “… is that neither John, a well known local identity nor any of his many relatives, are known to have been laid to rest anywhere within an hundred miles radius of that Balaklava/Hamley Bridge district”

    He appears to be buried in Owen, pretty well smack bang in the middle of where he was well-known, hadn’t particularly searched for his family yet.

    While on topic, I still find this Jessie a bit interesting – if nothing else the idea of 2 Jess Harknesses in nursing (albeit from memory some 10-20 years apart agewise). I was sort of trying to work out whether Robert Ellis Harkness a mason from Victoria might have been related, but couldn’t find obvious links…

    “Read” jumped out at me (as in “Tommy Reade”), although I notice bny the 50s most references have become Reid….

  85. milongal: There’s the caution, just don’t trust too much in Billion dollar graves or their competitors F-A-G in the search business. From your info, I checked with totally reliable Lorraine’s list for Owen and bingo, like a ‘prayer for Owen Meaney’ John Harkness, his kids John Dunlop H’s and Jessica Read H’s our nurse, and dear old Sue Betsy Harkness nee Read, wife and mother of the above, plus a few ring-ins which would be comforting, particularly during the winter months

  86. TBT: Bob’s yer uncle lads, or more’s to the point, Jessica’s uncle, Rob Harkness of 16th Lancashire Fusiliers, who died in France 1918 Born in Essex around 1890 would be my fair guess, though you’d be better off asking Jessie’s distraught cousins Ida and Roberta who posted a nice little epitaph…About the frequent sisterly correspondence; the first letter from ’57 which complains about Prosper’s misbehaviour. It then must have been to distant Ellen, Jess being in country and within shouting distance of Joan and her neighboors the Mangnosons. With regard to the epistle from Cornwall circa. 1962, I’m thinking that our absent minded professor mentioned that Joan was the addressee for that one… we can’t help a lot in your desperate quest for news on Sqn. Ldr. E. Moulds, the Bomber Command, Avro ace, though I can imagine joy sticks are to the fore at 12 o’clock high, scanning the clear blue skies over Hanover for Ernie in his B1 Lancaster, ‘ Jestyn Time’

  87. peteb: Still working on Ernie, last seen walking away from a crash landing in Holland, MG ’44. However your new quest for info on travel from U.K. 1943/45 has produced one sure result for sea arrival to Australia from GB via TR. On 3/10/43, regarding a certain naval intelligence officer, that I once had the privilage of introducing, though without expressions of interest. If you feel free to provide more detail, as to the aims of your fishing expedition, I’ll dig out my UK transfer lists and pass on what detail I’m able to, so long as I’m satisfied it has relevance to the case.

  88. milongal on May 16, 2019 at 8:56 am said:

    @JS: FWIW was genealogysa no billion graves….

  89. milongal: Yes of course, but with the SAGS limit on detail, I followed up on BG/FAG and got zip…I’m guessing that’s what went down, though don’t have particular recall as to why I needed the info.

  90. Always at you service I remain, peteb on May 16, 2019 at 9:52 am said:

    I like my fiction better, Dusty, it makes for a more interesting read .. you, old lad, chuck it up like a shower of confetti .. not that I mind, probably because It takes one piss-taker to know another.
    Rip and tear Johnno .. you’ve got them all beat here.

  91. Roger that Stripes, all words after Rip and tear johnno..Out!..

  92. Stripes: Your desperate search for Harkness or Moulds arriving in Australia from UK between ’42 to ’43 got no takers on TBT; yet I secured one for you, reported dutifully, then stood by to provide full details as required…Should abort desure for follow-up on the suspect or await follow up instruction.

  93. peteb on May 23, 2019 at 1:00 am said:

    Everlastingly grateful old son, in your debt …. now looking for a Harkness exiting the Auld Darte for Aus prior to ’45 and after ’43

  94. A bloke can’t take a trick with the constantly changing travel plans. Yesterday I had Ted Harkness who just so happens to have been the top coms. rating on the Shropshire out of Blighty bound for Brisbane. Then, with some considerable good fortune, I managed to jag another tub departing Gourock in the last days of December and arriving Sydney late February ’43 with our old mate Bill Moulds on board. Seems now that neither of my soon to be decorated heros are quite up to speed for the purpose of new evidentiary needs. It would make a lesser man throw in the towel, t’would indeed, indeed.

  95. Well spotted there Clive; no tails on the verse 70 end ‘d’ letters and a couple of other marked similarities such as the two kinds of ‘s’ appearing for a capital and non capital along with the standard cursive lower case. This is all consistent with Alf Boxall’s typical letter writing style, which we have indeed discussed at regular intervals. We have indeed, indeed!…And you know what mate? I’m not at all sure that Alf ever denied inserting the lines himself, possibly before then allowing Bill or Ernie Moulds, perhaps even the wee (no more than 20yo) froggy nurse to do the Jestyn sign off.

  96. And for all that, whatever Alf might have said or didn’t about the innocence of his affair with the young nurse in late August ’45, might now be put into a more dubious, not so above board context. It appears that Alf, our likeable bumbling ‘snorter’, whose word we came to see as being almost credible, from his TV debut with quizmaster Littlemore in ’77, seems now to have suffered a blow. This being in light of certain adverse disclosures as to the old digger’s integrity; there being solid evidence that points to his involvement in fraud and deception of the most henous, kind imaginable ie. Stolen valour!…

  97. peteb on May 25, 2019 at 10:27 am said:

    Littlemore not quite the ace investigative interviewer … not a mention of the name Keane plus a fake news over-dub suggesting the little lady herself penned the boozer’s verse to the big man.

  98. Yes, it would seem to be a case of a ‘Littleless’ if anything, as his client Eddie Obead might attest from the comfy cell which he now calls home. Actually Alf, the big man, resplendent in dress uniform and Sam Brown, along with two extra self awarded medal ribbons in the posed file pic, just so happened to be quite well versed in classic prose. John Milton, Henry Lawson and Sam Clemens can be seen in the backdrop for his TV interview. So one could bet most assuredly that he would have no problem in penning verse 70 on the cover page of his ROK verbatum, without having to find it in the book…Sy &c. Jestyn be faked.

  99. peteb on May 26, 2019 at 1:37 am said:

    … and where did the Bryant and May matches come from? But wait, if the dead gent had a half-smoked durry on his person, how suspicious would it have looked if he didn’t have the means to light it?
    PC Moss’s list of items found on the body be damned.

  100. Byron Deveson on May 26, 2019 at 2:28 am said:

    John,
    Service ribbons are hardly ā€œstolen valourā€. There is irrefutable evidence (written into Hansard etc) that the Dept. of Defence ā€œdisappearedā€ thousands of service files dealing with the secret mustard gas trials carried out in Australia and the SW Pacific area during WW2. They ā€œusedā€ about 1,000 volunteers and managed to kill some and badly injure many more. The Dept Defence denied any and all Repatriation claims for ongoing health problems and told Repat doctors that their patients were lying nut cases. That there had never been any mustard gas trials of any sort. Bottom line? Absence of Service associated records isn’t evidence of absence. Alf could very well have been telling the truth about his service and probably was in my estimation.
    My father was involved in the mustard gas trials in some way and was the person who dumped the archival evidence that hadn’t been ā€œweededā€ into Parliament in the mid 1970s. The relevant Minister had the sense to immediately tell Parliament that he had been misinformed and that Australia had indeed conducted extensive testing of mustard gas on volunteers.
    Why was this covered up in the first place? Well, one of the RAAF pilots who carried out one of the combined USA/Australia mustard gas bombing was told by his USA debriefers that, contrary to what the RAAF pilots had been told (that the targets only contained test animals) in fact the targets contained ā€œmilitary prisonersā€ and all had been killed. The RAAF pilot was very distressed (you can read his statements in Trove) and the ambiguous wording leaves open the possibility that the RAAF was suckered into an embarrassing ā€œincidentā€. There are political reasons why this might have occurred.
    It would explain why the indecent cover-up occurred in the first place. What if the ā€œmilitary prisonersā€ were Japanese? It is well established that the USA was playing dirty pool with its allies almost from the start of WW2.

  101. Byron: Alf had no entitlement to either the 39/45 nor the Pacific Star so far as the Army was cincerhed. He knew for sure about the strict protocols regarding specific areas of service, for some years after sitting for his incriminating fall bar photo. Much later writing off to the medals office with a plea to reconsider, explaining that he had actually seen active service during the Timor Sea conflict in 42/43 whilst with 1/NAOU. You may have a point about the veracity in part of his claim, for upon re checking records of other members of his patrol team, namely Dave and brother Xavier Herbert, it appears they were given part benefit of the doubt and issued with a shiny gold 39/45 star inscribed with their name….As for the other stuff well, my very own well tanned pop did six years up front with a Tommy gun in three theatres and you won’t find any mention of him on any AWM nominal rolls. All I can add in support of your obvious distrust of the military and it’s post war repatriation arm is, that I concur completely and for good reasons too. There can be no winners in warfare or for that matter, the nasty side shows accompanying, and as General William Tecumseh Sherman of the Union Army loved to hear himself say, “War is Hell”, eg. Just prior to ordering his boot licking sidekick Phil Sheridan to torch the C.S.A. state of Georgia, in the so called ‘scorched earth’ war against women and childer’ black, white and brindle “no matter my man, do it”.

  102. Moss paid for his faux pas with a transfer from his own dream station in Brighton, to the Henley Beach posting for such officers declining to fib a little in court for the better good of the Force. Of course there were no Maggie Thatchers, Bryant & May Redheads, Federal Green lights or S A Match Colonel Lights for that matter. We may suppose our man could have struck a saved old ‘lucifer vulcanic’ on his shiny boot heel and let it burn down after lighting up, which would have done the trick to get rid of the evidence.

  103. Flash: I think you’ll find that others, “less reputable” were talking about Alf having been the author of the verse 70 inscription long before your own attribution of same to the highly speculative, pulled out of a hat Major W. Jestyn Moulds OBE, who has, much to your horror, been replaced by part namesake Ernie the pom foran equally invalid reason.

  104. Response to TM/BS of even date. Gordon I was wondering if your “little extra research” into the life and times of our like decorated clandestine WW2 officers Maj. W. J. Moulds and Commander R. B. M. Long, revealed anything more about their possible rogue RSL affiliations. Seems that Rupert the navy man, may have been active until his passing in 1960, with the Manly RSL club in NSW and Bob, a former Army officer on the Regimental Supernumerary List (RSL), possibly with the Returned Services League (RSL) in far off Manly Qld…All goes to reveal what interesting things one can procure with a “little extra research”, as you say old chap…All the more extraordinary in a way; having two completely different meanings for the very same key military RSL abreviations, even more coincidental in that two beachside suburbs of two Australian state capitals over a thousand kilometers apart, should bare precisely the same name of Manly. Which the one in Qld, as it turns out was where ‘Jestyn’ Moulds stayed for a few short weeks whilst on furlough in early 1943 and t’other in NSW, to where ‘Michele’ Long retired some time in the fifties, long after his alleged involvement with lond dead Tom Blamey’s VDC & ‘the Association’ of red-rag baiters & urgers…It just might pay, when puting those extra hard yards in next time around , to get all the facts right before you trumpet, but don’t lose heart my man, just keep that leaking old kettle on yon hob and one fine day you might get the rusty basket to whistle dixie sweet and true, like Lee’s old horse Traveller.

  105. Check for my deliberate mistake Flash and we’ll share spoils for the Bozo prize.

  106. Peteb on May 27, 2019 at 7:50 am said:

    This from the bloke who didn’t know the difference between striped and plain.

  107. And from a bloke who couldn’t tell the difference between a normal stairway and one that had purpose built slats to prevent it’s use by adventurous disabled kids from across the road at Alvington.

  108. Peteb on May 27, 2019 at 11:35 am said:

    … ain’t nothin’ you don’t know is there Wally? You be like some of the other know-alls roundabout here.

  109. Now there’s a fine old name that we don’t hear often these days. Wally grew up in Partridge Street, moved to Collier Place as a kid thence to Pier Street, where he grew to manhood. Champion swimmer, consumate Adelaide city business man and Glenelg alderman, later becoming Lord Mayor no less. Fought the hun to a standstill in the Middle East, became Harbour Master at Madang, commanded the Itai POW’s in the SA camps and dared to carry his pocket copy of Hebrew psalms all through the war. I had no idea that you were familiar with the man Two dogs; are you Jewish by any chance? But you’re right to suggest that old Wally Bridgland was a most knowledgeable chappy and knew more than your average gentile in those heady days of Glenelg around ’48.

  110. milongal on May 27, 2019 at 10:06 pm said:

    I’m guessing I’m less reputable too, but certainly I’m not convinced in the differences being raised in the handwriting between the letters and the verse – and would be interested to hear an opinion from an actual specialist.
    It would be interesting to know the date the 2nd letter was written vs when v70 was written – because some of the ‘differences’ could be attributed to age-difference of the author (certainly my handwriting today looks different than it would have when I’d just left school. certainly the pen used in the letter is different so some of the differences happen there. I’d also note that the verse is written from memory whereas the other two examples are of someone thinking as they write – so the verse is potentially more hurried, which might explain why the ‘t’s keep gettting missed (and the more extreme lean on most of the letters).
    The first letter is nice enough to give us examples of some of the actual words from v70 for comp[arison (but, before, and) and of course the distinctive ‘I’…which to my eye show some similarity.

    The first letter talks about 2 demanding children needing to be clothed and fed so that probably gives some indication of when it was written. The second is obviously on a longish trip – which I originally thought might be honeymoon, but it doesn’t entirely sound like a holiday (3 months travelling followed by 6 months staying somewhere – and seemingly to ‘new’ places that still make it some sort of adventure). I sort of assume ‘we’ refers to her and Prosper (and possibly kids), but I guess there’s no reason why it couldn’t be her talking to a pen friend about her family or something….Maybe PB can give us a date for the letter?

    2c

  111. milongal on May 28, 2019 at 12:35 am said:

    Incidentally, how much do we know about Prosper? Abbot’s timeline has him born 1912, but I’m sort of interested (intrigued, even) in a P Thomson who arrived Adelaide 23/06/1924 on board the Moreton Bay with the Occupation “Motor Driver”

  112. Peteb on May 28, 2019 at 7:21 am said:

    Don’t have it Milongal … the image came from one of DA’s sites, maybe zoom on that pic of him with his hand over a letter.

  113. No need to look any further for a handwriting specialist and put aside the fake unrelated Moulds material which was posted on BS/TS and TBT as a joint ruse, concocted conspiratorily so as to divert attention away from other evidence yet to be anounced with fanfare nio doubt…. Some considerable time ago, I consulted with a well accredited handwriting comparison examiner, in and for both the High Court of Australia @ (FCD Maxwell P’matta) and in the District Court of NSW criminal jurisdiction @ (Redapple L’pool), two of many examples. From this I have concluded in general terms, that Alfred Boxall is more than likely to be the author of all the cursive handwriting within the inside cover of the duel language 1944 pressing of ROK/Shahir Omar, specifically in comparison with samples accredited to Jessica Thomson, but not necessarily including the figure 70 hand printing alongside….I have mentioned all of this in several previous short submissions which can be located and refered to if desired, or should it be contended that all this is new knowledge. For discretionary reasons I see no real need to reveal personal details of my consulted comparison expert per se, though I might refer any doubters back to the noted Court Registrars and or the Commonwealth and Australia Police Gazettes for the relevent periods 1974 through 1980, prosecution details of which I’m also reluctantly able to provide, upon receipt of a stamped, self address envelope.

  114. milongal: Could be Priestly Thomson for a very rough guess on y.o.b., but you could possibly narrow it down by trying to tie in Mr. P.Thomson’s travelling companions, Mr. E and Mrs. Thomson, all of the same Mile End address. I can’t see even a lad like Prosper wangling a driver’s licence at age 12.

  115. Nah. Probably not Priestly Morel Thomson WW1 (paywall) who was also from Gladstone out Port Pirie way and likely connected with Jessie Mcfarlane’s old man George Thomson from Gladstone which is a coincidence by similar ritious name, connecting in a way with Prosper’s Jessie Harkness.

  116. Righteous as in Brothers ie. Hooked on a feeling, Unchained Medley (sic). Yeah that’s riotous enough.

  117. milongal on May 28, 2019 at 8:52 pm said:

    @JS: No doubt a coincidence, but I can’t help but think there was the Jessica H who was a nurse who was a decade or so older than our Glenelg mob, and now a P Thomson who is about 10 years older (I should’ve mentioned the passenger record has him 21 in 1924 – so definitely not consistent with our Prosper b1912)….
    Thomson of course is a very common name (and P could equally be Peter, Paul (Pavel /tic), Patrick, etc), Harkness a little (but not a lot) less so.

    In particular, I was remembering reading somewhere that noone has found a record of North Shore/Glenelg Harkness as actually completing her nursign qualification (although clearly she practiced later) and was going out on a long, thin limb thinking about some identity theft in there somewhere – but of course I forgot we had a good ol’ dig into Prosper’s family in the past and verified dates and ages of him and his kin….
    consider it a post before thought.

  118. On a more coniliatory note it’s nice that we are able to join with Derek and Gordon to wish a fond farewell to our old SM nemesis of sorts, Len Brown. In the end, the uncommonly decent old detective and reasonably honest copper may have pulled one last trick Kenista smoke from the mystery railway cafeteria suitcase; As might well have been anticipated by the more knowing of his admiring devotees. The old bastard seems to have lied about his age to give himself advantage of seniority at the Gates. Onyer Super… ..Godspeed.

  119. Jon R, ha ha, back in early early 2014 made some interesting observations, based on a few of GF’s book notations concerning the nature of the Nurse’s relationship with Alf Boxall, as being somewhat at odds with what the detective had espoused. Feltus surmising that the couple had likely met by mid 1944 which is when Alf was posted back to Sydney from NT on compassionate grounds for the birth of his dughter Leslie. Going by what Alf told police which is at variance to what wife Susie said much later, he was presented with a copy of a dual language ROK by a shy young recently introduced nurse named Jestyn in September 1945 over a few snorts at Clifton Gardens pub and just prior to his active service posting “amongst the swaying palms”….According to G. Feltus, the particular fancy version of ROK was bought by the nurse from Craftsman books in Sydney, and we might note that this very edition, authored by A. W. Hamilton, then of W.A. was likely to have been used by Alf’s unit SME for a one off Malay language course run over several weeks in July ’44….In contrast, Jestyn as Jessie Thomson, claimed to SA police in July ’49 that she had given Lt. Boxall a somewhat different version of an English language W&T Courage & Friendship pocket version most likely, around Xmas 1945, by her
    own time reckoning. This would be significant if true, for Alf was then supposedly aboard ‘Crusader’ on U.S. war surplus recovery duties in northern waters off PNG. If one cares to peruse Alf’s own service records with care, as many others diarists obviously didn’t, there is a thirteen month unexplained hiatus gap between his being piped aboard Crusader as engineer officer at Rabaul in mid September of ’45 and his supposedly next return to Sydney in October of ’46. My contention is that Alf most likely got back to homebase around Christmas ’45, either on a short fly in fly out furlough or else perhaps aboard his vessel then offloading tanks, which might well support Jessie’s own claim for the book handover timing, along with its more sinister implications….But hold up, one might well counter; how do the two ROK editions work into this grand story of claimed deception. Thanks Ron R aka ha ha, we learn that back in 1949 when the fuzz came looking for a Lieutenant Boxall at Randwick bus depot, they were so disappointed at finding him alive that they completely forgot about his ROK. Undaunted, the news hounds later went to his home demanding satisfaction and in order to be rid of the intrusion, Alf reluctently showed them his W&T cleanskin copy of an ROK which he attested was the one in question as given to him by the little frog nurse. Pat Burgess of the Mirror reported years later that the book shown to his colleagues must in fact have been Jessie Thomson’s copy. So it seems that sly old Alf, later penned verse 70 into his A. W. Hamilton Sha’ir Omar edition, perhaps just prior to his TV debut with Stuart Littlemore or less in 1977, for reasons known but to God and one other. The imposter ROK had of course come into his possession in 1944, which also accords with wife Susies version as revealed by Alf’s daughter Leslie to Gerry Feltus when they met over tea and Arnott’s iced vo vo’s years after the tumult and shouting had died….So apart from the noted handwriting similarity which is quite telling of itself, one might also begin to see other like signs that the verse 70 attribution could only refer to Alf Boxall and in no part likely to have anything to do with Jessica Harkness the nurse or the falsely accused Major William Jestyn Moulds OBE…All of the above, to my modestly claimed, well researched opinion, seems to be more consistent with the few real facts known, than the ones attributed to so called reliable sourses and those merely invented as hopeful possibilities for a money spinning novel or two by fiction writers. What I have put down is merely intended for consideration and critical evaluation, as applicable, in order to report honestly on theoretical flaws.

  120. Peteb on May 29, 2019 at 6:36 am said:

    Old news about Alf’s missing time, Byron was onto that long ago.

  121. milongal: I know that Sister Jessie Harkness, the Spanish nightingale sounds inviting for possible name and title transfer by someone intending to use it for dishonest clandestine activities, but she really doesn’t fit the bill. She was very well known, almost famous in the near nor’west wheat belt districts around Hamley Bridge and Balaclava, besides she was twenty years older than her near namesake and I’d be inclined to think someone like the widow Thomson and her departed husband George, would have been perfect foils for a team like Prosper and Co.

  122. Good catch Byron and golly gosh, sorry about the unintended troll baiting…Time was, when the little toy dog was new; and the soldier was passing fair..And that was the time when Our Little Boy Blue…kissed them and put them there…..Just a bit of filler to offset a dumb piece of gotcha ha ha, from Kerry the king of sleaze… Appologies to any intelligent folk tuned in to Misc.

  123. How can we be so sure that Alf Boxall showed the press his nurse’s ’41 W&T to the exclusion of his ’44 dual language A.W. Hamilton job; after all they were both likely to be cleanskins in July of ’49. Two obvious reasons come to mind, though there may others that could also have relevance upon further consideration. Firstly the fact that the ‘filth’ had not demanded to see their informant’s gift copy, would have given Alf choice of which copy he showed the reporters, mindful that they’d be sure to want photos for their copy. So best show them the pretty one with the showy extra title Shahir Omar and a picture of an exotic woman on the frontise piece. Or else, to satisfy our TS/BS and Tbt spy theorists; perhaps the so called gift copy, passed to our deep cover PPK carrying intelligence agent ‘A’ by his shady lady ‘J’ three and one half years earlier precisely, contained need to know elements that he dare not risk exposing to snoopy news hounds. Another reason why a trainee nurse like the sweet almost innocent Jessica, was not likely to have given a fancy book, like the A.W. Hamilton edition to Alf, could be found in its list price of 7/6 or $20.00 Aud in today’s funny money terms, the cost of a lowly nurse’s weekly board. Besides Kerry, could you in all honesty see our sweet young thing, making a trip all the way into the durty dusty city ie.Martin Place , from her clean safe domicile on the other side of Sydney harbour, just to buy an overpriced book in a part foreign language, as parting gift for an old married man of her now requited aquaintance. PS: Apologies for repeating anything someone else may have posted previously, except Yours truly js.

  124. Clive: I love your sense of dedication to a grand champion of the lost cause. I think you may have remarked your good self as to being mindful of time altering writing styles, which from my experience are not so well defined. But in any case I’ll take your word for it, but dare to say that Alf’s ending ‘d’s’ from the displayed 1960 letter off his record are pretty much the same as in the ROK, even baring in mind fifteen to seventeen years variation to the verse 70 wording. Of course you and your team would declare these days, for one or t’other of the mouldy old Moulds to have done the deed along wuth accompanying Jestyn signature in 1945, whereas I’d go for it having been inserted by Alf Boxall sometime just prior to his chit chat with Stewart Littlemore who in all probability devised the scheme for attention seeking film footage (cut?). Each to his true belief old man and say a big “Hi” to Gordon for me..laddie. PS. Likewise we note Len Brown’s lamented loss.

    Now the little toy dog is covered with rust..But sturdy and staunch he stands.
    The little tin soldier is red with rust..And his musket Moulds in his hands.

  125. Byron: Regarding the missing thirteen months or so of Alf’s ORS from 9/45 through 10/46, I’m now able to fill the gap with a degree of certainty, based on the known movements of AV 2767 Crusader and its motley 13 WT crew. Alf was appointed as First Engineer between late 1945 and no later than February 1946, when it sailed for northern waters from Calmsie Qld, upon completing its sea trials and after also having undergone some modifications. As can be seen, this all fits with Alf having spent Xmas with his friends and loved ones, including the chance to have a few snorts with his friend the nurse?..So its probable that our man had earlier flown home or sailed back from PNG after just a couple of months, purpose being to prep the new heavy lift recovery vessel for work in the islands…Perhaps you will be familiar with these details already, going by Peteb’s kind “old news” reminder of your own earlier extensive service record enquiries, which strangely I’ve not been able to locate. If you happen to be able to advise on further details re his personal details such as claimed warlike missions in the Timor Sea campaign, the birth date of his second child Leslie? and his resting place which I have not as yet been able to locate in ACT or Sydney, that would be most helpful…NB ” indeed indeed ” for info as per Clive’s unanswered querie to TS/BS.

  126. There had been a delivery of the 44 surplus tanks from Torokina Bouganville to a Sydney storage/scrapping yard, most likely the sprawling Randwick tram and bus depot in July of ’46. Just one of many similar war surplus deliveries undertaken by Alf and his 12/13 WT crew aboard Crusader, monthly by all accounts, during its year long recovery mission in Pacific…Also included was the delivery of some thousands of exhumed bodies of allied servicement for re interrment in Madang war cemetery, so his post war duties were obviously not a holiday posting by any means…Knowing that Alf Boxall worked as an engineer for RBD before and after his war service, I was interested enough to check into that part of his life which I knew very little of beforehand. The vast Randwick depot, close to Woolloomooloo port, employed hundreds of mechanics just like Alf with various degrees of expertise depending on their respective trade skills. One thing they all did have in common was their membership of the communist led Amalgumated Engineering Union, whose introduction of rolling strikes during the late forties and early fifties had often brought Sydney city commuter services to a virtual standstill. Likely lads such as John Halfpenny and Laurie Carmichael, Stalinist strongmen were supreme in later years, which makes me wonder if our very bright Alfred may not have held some high office in the organisational structure himself, during his employment.

  127. Well Byron the least we can say on the old pinko’s behalf, is that he was most unlikely to have been a murdering Stalininist, with pacifist reading material such as ‘The Union Buries Its Dead’ close by in his impressive bookshelf. I’m talking about Alf Boxall of course not Len Brown, dyed in the wool pacifist Bolshie if ever there was one…So it must be true, then what ‘Henry’ Lawson wispered to Clive about him being a ship spotter along with Jestyn down at the old Woolloomooloo docks. Expanding along those lines, rusty Ruskie tubs from Vladivostok and the Japanese territories, were known to have been in and out of the Islands grabbing anything Nip or Yank made from metal that they could get their hooks into. Enter Alf the trader who might, for a barrel or two of Beluga caviar put them onto any lurks that his own scrounger bosses weren’t into. Then along with the delicate ship to ship exchange, some onboard mail bags go over the side by accident..Likewise Alf old Boss Dave Herbert had his own decrepit freighter in NG waters and was also into discarded communications equipment. Whereas brother ‘Capri’ Xavier, the former Faschist, turned red, was said to be cruising the military supply dumps in his blitz wagon through central Australia after guns & ammo for cash, with his black mate and fellow commie AWU delegate Joe McGuiniss…NB: NAA Crusader mail theft Torokino-Madang October 1945.

  128. Peteb on May 31, 2019 at 8:24 am said:

    Johnno, mate, thanks, but all we want to know is one thing – who was the joker on the beach?

  129. Byron: Deliberate mistake, mail theft was 17th June ’46. And for you Peteb me old China, the joker on the beach was the same joker as the one got caught trying to cut in on the secret military burial sites. Those that the brothers McInnis, the brothers Herbert and the cousins Boxall went dibs on near Larrimah in ’44, or else he might’ve been some joker with a similar sounding name to the first joker.

  130. Some good news on ‘The Ugly Duckling’, It seems that the army had given it their own designation of 1 ACV Crusader as opposed to its defence listing as AV 2767. which means Pierre Eugene Cau was part of the crew until arrival back from the islands in October’46 and the tub’s subsequent transfer to civil use. Bad news is that any interesting snippets regarding Peppy’s year aboard with Alf are hidden behind the NAA paywall.

  131. Peteb: I think we can scratch cousin Alf from our in the know list, but perhaps include two Freds, Morris and Gubbins, spooks from Pine Creek NT & Brighton SA who had recruited native labour for the dumps around Larrimah, Mataranka and out Rum Jungle way in 42/43 during the Jap air raids. There were other players known to Stanners lads, such as a pair of influencial Rex’s from Glenelg, a mysterious Bill Thomson from Dee Why?, the Taswegian Maj. Nettlefold and his very tough ex Timor Ind. Co. Mob. I can guess your SM joker might have been a former confidant turned liability who became a risk to disclosure re plans for consignment, thus rendering hisef expendable….Seems TS/BS intend sticking with the Bill Moulds ‘JEstyn signature with promised backing of his ever supportive on tap ‘Anonymous’ team.

  132. milongal on June 2, 2019 at 10:39 am said:

    @JS you alluded to an interesting point re the Rubaiyats. Was J ever shown the (courage and friendship or whatever) rubaiyat that was found?
    It’s sort of plausible that they mention the Rubaiyat and she links it in her mind to a version that looks totally different (because she doesn’t know anything of the one that is found). If she has seen it, however, it’s sort of unlikely she links it to the one Alf claims was from her (and there’s certainly a possibility he’s the one playing games, not her) – but it sort of would also suggest that the police also knew the book was wrong (not withstanding your ideas that it’s a totally different book)

  133. not ken howard on June 2, 2019 at 10:43 am said:

    If that’s your starting gate, Dusty, the first hurdle is where were your horses on or about October 1946?

  134. It would be London to a brick on that Xavier and the well shod McInnis bros, were mounted during their round up at Julia Crick in ’47, before the haul south to SA. In fact there is a yarn about a nag without a name in the U of Q files, with a pic of a horses arse hanging out the back of their tarped blitz , a rifle and a Hillman. A new post on Bill Stanners boys has a group photo of a ton or more of his lads, all named but with no sign of Alf, Dave, Xavier or Stanner taken in ’42/’43. I’ve partially checked it for obvious wop names like Styne and the midget Arnold Deucshbag that Nick had the hots for, but none show up on the nominal rolls so, we’re sort of fraked on that line. Any suggestions that won’t involve search fees?..If this doesn’t get a run on once reliable Ciphermysteries, I’ll send it under separate cover.

  135. milongal: There are several quotes in the local and interstate rags of the nurse describing the Ron Francis ROK as being similar to one she gave to the Lieutenant three and a half years ago when she was at RNSH in Sydney. That could only mean she was shown it, or else saw a photo of the front cover, pertaining as such to the the ’41 Kiwi Courage & Friendship edition and most certainly not Alf’s Jestyn signed A.W. Hamilton ’44 edition.

  136. Flash:
    Cmndr. R.B. Long OBE lived 7 miles from Sydney and a thousand miles from care!
    Major W. Jestyn Moulds OBE lived 700 miles from R.B. Long and didn’t really care! My own humorless take on an old promotional motto for the Sydney beach suburb of Manly. Only accessable to weekend picknic crowds from t’other of the harbour, by Ferry before the much celebrated bridge opening in 1932. Capt. Francis De Groote your own ‘New Guard Association’ cut the tape.

  137. Chuck Brownhold on March 1, 2020 at 8:48 pm said:

    Have you done an article on the “LUE” symbol map ?

    this blog article is probably the best description of it

    http://danerator.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-lue-map.html

  138. john sanders on March 2, 2020 at 3:41 am said:

    Pete: I Can’t begin to thank you for the mention of my visits to your blog over the years. Whilst the figures are impressive, I really can’t take all the credit, not in these days of digital automation gagetry. I’m usually far from the online action in the early morn, being out there pounding on my routine daily half+ marathon, or in the late afternoon, enticing hungry river snake head to strike. Sorry to disappoint.

  139. john sanders on March 10, 2020 at 11:50 am said:

    Talking about shooting oneself in the foot, poor old Gordon Cramer has gone and done it again with his Archbald (sic) Maule Ramsay nomination for having come to Australia with his pro nazi agenda in 1949; this being based on a Bob Wake’s CIS alert communication to his boss outlining the arrival of an unamed Scottish Captain purportedly to hook up with Tom Blamey’s anti communist ‘Association’ chaps. Problem is, Gordon’s hot new candidate Archbald likely never have set foot on our shores and besides, Wake made it as plain as could be that it coudn’t have been Ramsey, who afterall had served as an army Captain (no post service rank entitlement) with the Coldstream guards in WW1. Reminds us of Maj. William Jestyn Moulds from a while back who managed to get Peteb sold hook line and stinker on that good officer’s nefarious links to Alf Boxall and Jestyn Harkness’ in the verse 70 debacle. One thing we can give the old AfIO charlatan is his reluctance to delete (pride) his crap like his pal Pete when he gets caught out, so some misplaced credit to him for sticking by his guns under when under threat of exposure.

  140. john sanders on March 11, 2020 at 6:45 am said:

    For an even better example of a real con man at work, try this one taken from Bigfooty where Gordon has recently received a promotion and Redacted aka Gordon is now chief investigator on the Somerton case, along with Ruth Collins who has been recruited for her in-depth knowledge on Thomson genealogy matters

    Starts with Gordon as Redacted via his SM-A305 YN Tapatalk commenting off subject about a WW2 white tie victory ball from trove…Just to prep us for the finale on this at times occasionally interupted thread line.
    Gordon as Redacted comes on again requesting help re ownership of 90A Moseley St. Glenelg.
    Gordon as himself replies that he will instruct his shadow Clive Turner to get on the case, Clive being the all purpose ferrit whose phrasiology is much like Gordon.
    Gordon as Redacted seems to be worried on the cost, as if such triviality would be a concern in a matter of such wide reaching interest and need for total resolution.
    Gordon as hiimsrelf reports on Clive’s success and after some name shuffling he gives himself as Redacted a positive lead to 90A in the form of Prof. Alexander David Ross who just happened to have worked in secret govt projects during WW2. And to top it off we the fawning dupes are shown a nice govt. ball picture of Perth based (since 1908) ‘A. Ross’ in ’54 white tie and all.

    As it turns out, the old Thomson rental had been in the name of an Ernest John Ross and an A. Ross whom Gordon, as is his imposterial wont decided would be a fine fit for Alexander Ross, obviously on his files as a potential inclusion in links to espionage at some convenient stage.
    My suspicions were almost immdiately answered with a quick tapatalk of my own to S.A. Genialogy who correctly informed me that old Ernest and his dear wife Nita (Anita) are at rest in Adelaide, he from ’71 she from ’80. I very much wanted to inform someone until realising that not a soul was likely to give a rat’s bottom.

    This happens to be just one of the many instances where this villain has had the affrontery to deceive or attempt to decieve any body foolish enough to follow his line. Over the years he has also been aided and abeted by a well known group of unbelievably dedicated co conspirators, least of these being Peter Bowes who has now at least come to his senses to some degree, whilst going along full steam with his own rather easy to read and childish game.

  141. milongal on March 11, 2020 at 6:47 pm said:

    @JS: There’s a reason I stopped reading some sites (and why some I never read – I’ve only ever been to bigfooty to discuss read about footy – which I lost interest in last year as the Dees plummeted from their 2018 achievements….)

    NB: I think some of the above mentioned parties took over anemptyglass (which I’ve since stopped reading) with a view to promoting the idea that Fedosimov who was not really Fedosimov (that is, the picture of the man we have from the forties who is also Fedosimov of Venona fame (we’ll call him “Major” because MAJ wasn’t his alias – or something), but not Fedosimov who later represented the USSR at IAEA conferences) was SM…
    As I say, there’s a reason I quickly give up on such sites – it’s hard for a pleb like me to follow let alone understand some of the logic.

  142. john sanders on March 12, 2020 at 3:56 am said:

    Pb,

    Sorry but I’m not really seeing too much of anything I could have said to justify the childish rant for my perported sledging of your supportive online pals dude 1974 (temp), Ruth Collins 1955 and aka Gordon Cramer1947 your co-conspiratorial pal.

    Anyhow Pete you called the truce and I for my part will uphold it within reason. I’m trying to figure what’s with Tomsbtwo’s posted wartime snap of a young Fred Leigh and his babes, looks like Geylang 37 Singapore though must have been before 453 Sqn’s game changing non tactical withdrawal to DES a full two weeks before the nips arrived.

  143. For the record: Sanders is mocking my father’s part in WW2 ..

  144. john sanders on March 14, 2020 at 5:38 am said:

    …and as if I or anybody else including the Commonwealth of Austruckingfailure ever gave a damn, I still have a bullet lodged below my left knee, fragments of a bullet in my right hand (knuckles), along with various RPG fragments to scalp, right front shoulder, right costal margin (rib cage) and legs, all thankfully well settled after fifty years. I distinctly recall the fire coming from the side and rearwards so thankful for small mercies and I’ll go with the evidence even if it don’t neatly fit, just like I’ve always attempted to do with VM & Tamam Shud investigations.

  145. john sanders on March 14, 2020 at 1:42 pm said:

    Nick: Thanks for small mercies; not quite all that I wanted to say but good enough to get the general message across and the rest I’ll keep in obeyance.

  146. john sanders: you didn’t need those other ten comments to make your general point. :-/

  147. john sanders on March 14, 2020 at 2:05 pm said:

    NP: Not that I like to admit it, but at the end of the day you played fine, done good as the man said, and I’m totally satisfied with the way things panned out thanks to your better mindful insight than one under continual provocation.

  148. john sanders on March 15, 2020 at 3:28 am said:

    Some may have mistakenly thought for the barest milli second that the evil menace meant what he said about putting up the shutters at tomsbytwo. It now proves that our stalking deceiver had no such intentions, having recovered his tattered nerves.

  149. your nemesis on March 15, 2020 at 10:10 am said:

    Hullo sweetie …

  150. john sanders on March 15, 2020 at 10:48 am said:

    Hello y’self sweaty…See you’ve got your ‘mother goose’ truce up again. If it it’s not yet another ruse I’ll honour it, until any loose excuse for abuse is detected.

  151. john sanders on March 16, 2020 at 12:04 pm said:

    It seems to have been determined by our esteemed moderator, that in view of the fact that recent personalised sledging by Peter Bowes and John Sanders bear absolutely no relevance to the so called Somerton Man discussions, their continued sledging should be deemed no longer suitable for publication. So in the interestests of creating a more harmonious invironement, I’ve decided to step aside from further harmful banter and self isolate which should enable our more moderate Voynicheros a chance to resolve their petty differences without further disruptive interference…PS My self Isolation has nothing to do with the current international Corolla, Sars or R2 D2 viruses, all of which have been thankfully eradicated from my host nation..by decree.

  152. Ok with me, digger. All square.

  153. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on March 17, 2020 at 10:06 am said:

    Nick, do you have a view on the value of a POLE-based database and graph for the SM “data” we have? It seems to me to be a superficially attractive proposition to be able to query relationships between nodes, especially with functions such as shortest path’ – but this isn’t my domain, so I may just be blinded by the pretty webs it weaves, and I’m not familiar enough with the known SM data/information to assess whether it would form a useful base. Perhaps there just isn’t enough to warrant it? And is there lack of appropriate public datasets to plug in to exploit the technology?

    Apart from plod, do you think anyone has attempted this, e.g. on an investigation /Intel platform or a db like neo4j?

  154. john sanders on May 25, 2020 at 2:41 pm said:

    Peteb: You’ve either got it in you or you don’t; as they say it’s all in the genes and Peteb always gets the last word at tbt…Anyhow mofo, did you note on your last most interesting but alas dreary threadline that Paul’s diary entry actually makes no specific mention of Jessie Thomson. He refers to a Mrs. Thompson with a ‘P’ who, for all we know could have been old Elizabeth Thomson of Hambley Bridge who visited at the morgue, then just maybe was shown the bust on 26th July, same day as our Jess. and we recall her futile attempts to intervene at the June 21st inquest. I think it was Feltus who came up with the good sort assessment in his book but young Jessie Harkness at 4′ 9″ with crook chompers was certainly no stunner.

  155. milongal on May 25, 2020 at 8:49 pm said:

    A very small thing….

    In a lot of the literature (including Dr Abbott’s “List of things we DO know”) it talks about Jessica’s number being unlisted. But that can’t be true….
    Didn’t GF find the number by painstakingly combing the telephone directory? An unlisted number (by definition) wouldn’t have been listed there – and if he found it linked to her (as opposed to ol’ Prosper) in the ‘phone book, then perhaps it explains why the police were interested in her not Prosper. But of course, that might tie back with JS’s point above – was it listed as Thomson or Harkness?

  156. john sanders on May 26, 2020 at 12:03 am said:

    GF’s claimed spare time search through the SA directory had to be contrived; for one thing the ’47 edition with it’s eight thousand private listings could have been covered in an a trice to find the required listing. Apart from that he and Det. Ron Thomas had been a team in the seventies and Ron was the known authority on all things connected to Somerton Man in those days including the Nurse’s likely residential details and Moseley Street phone numbers, one private, the other most likely a classified listing under medical professionals.

  157. john sanders on May 26, 2020 at 5:23 am said:

    Peteb may well have been a fine and creative compositor in a younger and less confused part of his life, but fudging numbers and keeing two copies of a client’s ledger books does not equate to spotting often overlooked criminal evidence; Case in point being his latest Paul Lawson diary notes in which he somehow manages to create an aura of suspicion that the old codger was somehow part and parcel to an intricate murder cover-up conspiracy. Of course when Peteb’s wild fantasies are themselves supported by ex Cramer stars Misca and Rob Nowak it must stroke his self proclaimed angry intellectual image no end, giving the old phony all the more reason to get on with the farce.

    Paul’s Diary entry for 15th June 1949 includes two separate sets of visitors, which includes detectives Brown, Noblet and Leane police to discuss matters pertaining to the completed job. Then we find him entertaining two complete strangers in the form of D. Cleland and a Mr. NBT who showed up to view the completed bust and to which Bowes seems blissfully ignorant. So who are these worthies who are not important enough to mention. Seems to me that one is probably David Fullarton Cleland a Lawyer and heir to the Chateau Tanunda/seppelts empire, a partner of Sam Jacobs, future Supreme Court Judge as well as Prosper Thomson’s one time solicitor of notice; As for the other cove I’d make a guess and say possibly a former top SA detective named Noblett who may have had an inkling about someone from the past. He would have been accorded full fraternal rights no doubt.

  158. milongal on May 26, 2020 at 9:05 am said:

    Incidentally fell down some other rabbit holes….
    There was a MISS AM Harkness at 32 Augusta St Glenelg
    I could imagine siblings sort of ending up in similar places, but there’s nothing other than a surname to suggest that here….

    (NB: Working off memory, not off notes)
    A Carl Thomsen mentioned elsewhere on this site (possibly by me) born 1906 and serving in WW2 is quite interesting (but I can’t fund any Riverland/Mallee connection).
    His full name was Wellmet Karl Grenfell Thomas Thomsen (might have got the order wrong). Wellmet was his mum’s name – and given she appears to have died the day (the records show day before) that he was born, it sounds like she died in childbirth (aged 22). Her husband (Charles Thomsen) and her biological family (mum HA Reynolds and 2 sisters (M Brisbane and E Buchanan)) continued placing “in memoriam” notices for a lustrum or two after she died.
    Papa Charles Thomsen appears to have died in the 1930s (1931 or 1933 I think).
    On 30th November 1946 (couldn’t help but notice the coincidence with the day of the year) WKGT Thomsen placed adverts in the papers looking to be appointed administrator of his Mum’s estate and Executor (or similar) of his Dad’s will.

    BUT. BUT. BUT. I can’t seem to make any links to SA with them (although there are a lot of gaps especially between Dad dying and Karl trying to take control of his parent’s affairs).

    There was a lot of Thomsen activity (by different Thomsen’s) in country SA. Most significant of that lot (as far I can tell) was a Niels Valdemar Thomsen originally of Adelaide who fathered the K Thomsen (Kingsley Bernard) that appears in the 1948 S&M in what is today Westbourne Park. He divorced his wife (Jessamine Charlotte Gamlen Thomsen) in 1934 (actually, more accurately she divorced him), and somewhere in between he moved overseas. Their daughter Gwendolyn married a Stuart Bowles in 1939 (but was given away by her (I assume Maternal) Grandfather….
    Either way, they’re not obviously related to the NSW lot, and neither are obviously related to the Thomsen of Mangnoson fame (but I found the Valdemar coincidence particularly….er….coincidental….)

  159. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on May 26, 2020 at 10:20 am said:

    @milongal

    Somewhere on here, a little while back, PeteB posted a question that I’m hoping you can answer yet, possibly in order to put a further nail in the coffin of the long-haul body deposition excursion supposedly indulged in by persons unknown yet observed. The question was:

    Where is/was the location of the “dugouts” along the beach at Glenelg/Somerton?

    It’d be really helpful for someone resident offshore if you could provide any answer with a handy reference point (e.g. about level with X street).

    Thanks!

  160. milongal on May 26, 2020 at 8:05 pm said:

    @ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š°
    Short answer, I don’t know.
    Longer Answer: I vaguely remember trying to answer Pete’s question. I had always assumed they were further South (toward Brighton) (add this to the URL /tamam-shud-somerton-man#comment-368105)
    But even rereading my answer there it talks about the Broadway (North of where the body was found) and Whyte St (South of it).

    BD seems to suggest they were North – or at least that there were sand dunes North.
    Although I do recall sand carting because of sand movement (from memory from West Beach even further North to Semaphore and Largs) I wouldn’t really associate Adelaide metro beaches with sand dunes – there’s perhaps hints of them from Henley to Semaphore – typically where sand has been caught at a fence (and I suppose the existence of a seawall along much of that stretch of coastline suggests that those Western suburbs are built on large sandhills (which you really notice in the topography of streets around Henley and Tennyson).

    I sort of have a vague recollection (can’t find the thread) that though I’d originally thought it referred to some sort of location on the actual beach it actually referred to shack-like cabins or houses along the esplanade (but much further South). That is, that the reference was metaphorical rather than physical (the “have nots” who were digging out a life for themselves) – I *think* (have to find some references) that although even then beachside suburbs would have been largely for the affluent, that further South (in my mind Brighton to Seacliff) there were small properties with crude shacks on them between the beach and what is now Brighton Rd – but that’s a big crossover of reseach, speculation and imagination.

    But googling now the only dugouts I can find reference to is the housing at Coober Pedy and some artefact of Cornish miners around Burra (both nowhere near metro Adelaide),

  161. milongal on May 26, 2020 at 8:08 pm said:

    It’s always after you hit submit….found this from 1927 which might indicate another use for the term:

    FIRE AT BRIGHTON. SIDESHOW BURNT OUT.
    Shortly after 10 o’clock on Saturday night smoke was seen issuing from a sideshow on the Brighton Esplanade known as
    “Dave’s Dinkum Dugout.” The alarm was given by Mr. E. H. Fryer, and the prompt arrival of the fire brigade -prevented the flames front threading to other booths.
    The whole of the contents of the shed, valued at. about £100, were destroyed.

    So perhaps “dugouts” was a local person’s reference to the sideshows at Brighton?

  162. milongal on May 26, 2020 at 8:33 pm said:

    Or perhaps it’s a little “all of the above”.
    This from 1943:
    Lived in Dugout
    Alfred Henry Bellman, of no fixed place of abode, was sentenced in the Brighton Court today to 14 days’ imprisonment for having had insufficient lawful means
    of support. It was stated that he had been living in a dugout on the beach.

    There’s certainly lots of pictures of tents around Brighton Jetty through the 20’s (and talk of “Christmas Camp” at State Library of sa (slsa) picture collection (collections slsa sa gov au )

  163. john sanders on May 26, 2020 at 11:36 pm said:

    RN: From as far north as Broadway right along Somerton Beach to John Miller Reserve, between Alvington House and Miller Reserve; thence all the way South along the beach and East to Minda Home at Hove were extensive dunes with their so called cave ‘dugouts’ being found right through to Wattle Reserve, Brighton. In fact sand hovels or douvers? as they were known in the 20s had been part of the Adelaide beach scene for many years… Peteb’s last unresponded related querie was undoubtedly a ruse leading up to one of his usual smart arse interrogatories; intended to give him the last word.

  164. john sanders on May 27, 2020 at 3:00 am said:

    We’ve been taunted by enough Carl Thomsens and Thompsons over the past dozen years now to drive us bonkers!…..and besides, according to poor, possibly deranged Keith Mangnoson or his interpretter of 7/12/48 Det. Erol Canney, the man from the cold snowy climate was named Thompsen. I recall mentioning a certain Carl ‘wheelbartow’ from just such an unclement part of the world, an itinerant farm worker with cameleering and dingo shooting experience who had jumped ship and married a nurse Davis from Clare Hospital who, after giving birth to young Peter-Boy in ’38 had sent him back home to treat a life threatening organic disease. For those who recall Bert Cleland’s “Britisher”, Dr. John Dwyer’s “The appearance of being an educated man” and Ina Harvey’s “..Polite quiet and didn’t murder the Kings English” descriptions, this particular Carl almost fills the bill and a very well schooled fifth column candidate indeed, indeed… PS: Carl was still living in ’48 though “we don’t know where he are” now unless…

  165. john sanders on May 27, 2020 at 4:02 am said:

    This one is intended for our ‘Grapes of Wrath’ micro writing scam scanner: When is a claimed 17th century German illustration not?…answer being when it’s labeled as being 19th century. We might concede that the faux pas was deliberate and merely intended to check on whether anonymous BS contributors be up to speed with the latest Major Moulds – Alf Boxall – Jestyn 70 news on recall to Bill Simpson’s Aust Int. mob following their pseudo war time links with the Godless commies.

  166. john sanders on May 27, 2020 at 9:03 am said:

    Well that was certainly a swift response from Gordon who has obliged us with a deceptive cover up in the form of a newly inserted 17th century portrait above the offending 19th century German original piece to negate his silly blunder. Should anybody wish to view the evidence of that single picture post, I can of course oblige as if anyone would doubt my call or give two hoots.

  167. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on May 27, 2020 at 5:44 pm said:

    @Sanders @milongal

    To be fair to PB, he raised the dugout query on my behalf, as part of a discussion over at his place about body deposition and my general downer on things Feltus.

    Context: I’d overheard by way of the very good BBC world service documents about the Isdal Woman an interesting “fact”. The Norwegian copper in charge of this (quite literally) cold case claimed that no known recent murder involved (whole) body deposition further than 75 metres by foot from a vehicle or similar transport. The implication was that this was an academically researched, empirical fact. I haven’t found any relevant papers, but was curious to apply this ‘rule’ to “the dugouts” to at least form a preliminary view on the relevance of eye witness accounts of a “body” being carried along the beach.

    Fwiw: I think it’s very probably bollocks. As is all the bickering over the “wrong trousers”. The body was there all night. It didn’t move. The lividity is as expected, simply because the witness statements from the morning of discovery have been misinterpreted, influenced perhaps by the “classic” SM pose on the Feltus cover, together with the much later photos of the “sea wall”. Together these appear to paint a misleading picture of the scene.

  168. milongal on May 27, 2020 at 8:12 pm said:

    My understanding was the witness statement (keeping in mind they didn’t come forward until 1959) was that they (the witness) were walking towards the dugouts (so the body wasn’t necessarily carried from there).

    Some random hings that have occurred to me recently that may or may not have been covered/mentioned (only 1 about the dugouts)
    1) What if the “dugouts” was a more recent term (a term that described something in the 50s, not 40s) – that doesn’t discredit the witness, but they’re describing a 1948 incident in 1959 references. Did the witness mention dugouts, or is that inserted by someone else to try to clarify directions the witness used?
    2) Envelopes and air mail stickers have lots of sites suggesting “he clearly wanted to send some letters” – what about stamps? Presumably you have to go to a PO to get air mail stickers (and possibly envelopes), so why wouldn’t you pick up a sheet of stamps?
    3) Chewing gum? I thought the guys teeth were in pretty ordinary condition – how would you go chewing when you’re missing a few chompers? Would smoking and chewing have been common co-habits (I know they were later, but I think that was largely as a stigma started to attach itself to smoking)
    4) The coins in the suitcase – would people carry phone-change back then, or did that come later (a very brief google suggests that there may have been public phones around by the 40’s, and that a local call would likely cost 1p).
    5) The damn tickets, those damn tickets. I have so much problem with those damn tickets (but I’ve ranted excessively about them before).
    6) not 1, but 2 combs on his person. I sort of understand someone carrying a comb (especially if they regularly meet people and need to present well) – but why carry 2? Especially when you have a nice suitcase you could leave one in
    7) 6 pencils. Drafting pencils. Why do we record 3 of them are H (is that just to emphasise that they’re for drafting)? I know some people’s opinion on the pencils, but it seems a long bow….not least because surely we could get even finer grade pencils…..

    I think I had other thoughts, but they’ve skipped off for now….

  169. john sanders on May 28, 2020 at 4:41 am said:

    One can hardly blame poor Bowes for his ongoing confusion over Tamam Shud slip inconsistencies. I’ve done my level best to explain in simple terms the logical reasoning behind his dilema; Apropos suspicious time gaps on finding of a slip by Bert Cleland in mid April ’49, but then his subsequent recovery of same and finally the ROK fragment being taken into police possession for evaluation. Several follow up inquiries at the behest of Dets. Leane & Brown each of which confirmed the initial translation as reported in the April newspapers were done simply for favour of a second opinion. Nothing suspicious at all there, just basic detective work in play.

    No confusion at all really. However, if we then take into consideration, as we must, there have been in fact two identical Tamam Shud slips, from two identical ROKs reported by two different Glenelg entities on the very same day, that being 22nd July ’49, then we need to be delving a little deeper into the whys and wherefores and scratching our heads. I can recall discussing this all in some detail some time back but I doubt that the post survived a subsequent destructive ‘Flash’ flood; Suffice to say there is clear and irrefutable evidence to support the two TS slip scenario and it’s there for all to see in the inquest depositions.

  170. john sanders on May 28, 2020 at 2:23 pm said:

    Getting back to my Carl from the other day which everyone interested in Keith Mangnoson’s ID will surely recall, he was born on 13th August 1907, and was most likely affected by internal complications of sclerodermia or some equally diabolical ailment at the time of his repatriated back to his cold homeland from Perth in early 1939. Wife Chris and two year old son Peter then settled in South Australia with her mum Mrs. Davis nee Boxall where she spent the war years employed at Finsbury munitions factory. Both Detective H. Strangway and Bob Cowan just so happened to be ensconsed at that establisment for valuable wartime service in their particular fields, policing and chemical inspection. She would most assuredly have known Harry as a consequence of her CIS interrogations concerning her husband’s allegence to Germany in 1943.

    From 1940 onwards Carl who had apparently regained his health and studied to be a Chiropractor, worked as a translater of English, Russian, Polish and French with the third Reich in an economics portfolio. He corresponded with his Family and his letters reveal an apparent love for the classics, especially childrens works, most notably Wind in the Willows which he mentioned to young Peta-Boy along with some subtle snipes at the blundering Brits and much praise for Adolph Hitler’s condemnation of the Jews. When later interned by the Americans as a renegade, he relented in his facsist idiology and commenced a concerted though apparently unsuccessful course of action to reclaim his British subject status and reconnect with family in Adelaide, ably assisted by many glowing recommendations re his change of idiology.

    As for what became of Carl, I’m not at all certain though I’d think it likely that he made it back, allbeit not seemingly reconnecting with kith and kin for some reason. Whilst his Canadian birn wife Christobel appears to perhaps have spent some time in country Victoria, she is nevertheless buried in Cheltenham cemetery, Adelaide where her son still resides to this day and is an active member of Prosper’s Vintage Automobile Association of S A. He ended up an intellectual type like his dad and had a career in graphic journalism with the good old Advertiser. Attempts to communicate with the young fellow are ongoing and I have a good yarn to spin if and when he decides to come in from the cold.

    This is all just a hunch, that there might be a connection to the SM prize but hey, it’s at least as likely as all our other dud attempts at ID eg. Tom Keane, Arnold Deustch, Chuck Mikkelsen & Fedosimov etc. It just so happens that my Carl’s birthday, as can be seen falls just short of the commencement date for the Adelaide annual agricultural show; remember what we were told. So should flowers suddenly appear on the Unknown Man’s top bunk plot around mid August, we might have picked ourselves a winner..One never knows their luck in a such a fine and dignified old town.

  171. milongal on May 28, 2020 at 8:08 pm said:

    @JS – what 2 slips? I know the newspapers seemed to imply it (but I quite readily dismiss that as journalistic confusion). You seem to suggest there’s some other evidence of 2 slips (in the inquest?) – could you elaborate?

    I’m interested because I’ve neer been entirely comfortable that the slip they found actually was the one they were looking for (to me the fact that it had (supposedly) been ripped out and then neatly trimmed up so that it didn’t match the hole whence it came makes it difficult to imagine a purpose for it (other than a suicide note – but the fact it was cleverly hidden seems to dismiss that idea) – and I think the idea of it being planted becomes even more confusing when the book and the slip don’t obviously match)….
    So I’ll happily accept there were multiple slips but was wondering how we know that (other than speculation)

    Regarding your Carl (I’m assuming we’re talking Thomp?s[eo]n) – would he have ever been working out on the fruit orchards in the riverland (presumably immediaely before his return to Perth)? He doesn’t exactly sound like the labouring type….

  172. john sanders on May 29, 2020 at 12:00 am said:

    Milongal: Exibit C3 (f) tendered by Constable Moss following his evidence to the Coronial Inquest on 21 June, 1949, names the ‘Taman Shud’ Slip as part of the deceased personal possessions, being mindful in doing so that he did not find it…Later in the sittings Len Browns evidence concerning his paper match up enquiries culminated with him tendering the second slip in unmistakable terms, though perhaps confusingly described as being a ‘piece of paper’ and labeled exhibit C9 . Their can be no confusion on possibilty of one slip being tendered twice as the way evidence was collected, collated, presented and recorded, it could not have enabled such a stuff up to occurr. How folks could have overlooked the above is quite beyond the pale, me included especially in that I had raised the mysterious C9 exhibit often enough without really twigging to the ramifications. Makes me wonder what else might be amongst the SM ruins hidden in plain sight that could be a game changer.

    My Carl jumped ship at Port Pirie in 1927, made his way with an another young German to Alice Springs where the pair were knocking around looking for jobs connected with missions, a camel hire venture and dingo shooting on contract to the government. There is evidence to hand of his partner working with a mining company involved in gold exploration in early 31 but Carl was not part of that. Our lads then headed south to S.A. and became contract farm labourers working in and around the Clare Valley, Renmark and the Riverland districts for two years. When Carl met and married his Nurse Chris at Port Lincoln in ’34, his partner Paul moved to Melbourne, got into strife with car theft theft and was eventually jailed then deported from Brisbane. Carl went west to work farms near Ceduna from ’33 to ’38 when he moved to West Australia looking for similar employment. His son Peter was born there in February and he departed the Commonwealth in late January, 1939. PS: Note that Keith M. said his Carl was at Renmark in 1939 which wouod be a problem.

  173. john sanders on May 29, 2020 at 6:26 am said:

    D47: Dunno why I bother but some other mugger might get the drift. It was Harry Strangway’s case at the start and he worked out of Glenelg which was the nearest ‘D’ office. It took him only a trice to get to the bottom of things, especially after finding the TS which convinced this experienced old detective of no suspicious circumstances as might warrant a prolonged investigation. Next day being 2/12 the Adelaide press has him on a child sexual assault brief which to him would have been his idea of more useful police work. What later transpired to re start the brief is still subject of much speculation, such as would necessitate better pie in the sky fantasty theories than anyone including your TBT team have offered up to date. ….Peteb: I don’t usually lead folks down my garden path; that’s your specialty and I know from much cajoling that @milongal doesn’t bow to arse licking nor threats which as we all know are your greasy tools of trade.

  174. john sanders on May 29, 2020 at 6:56 am said:

    ….and I hasten to add, Harry was the longest serving detective in the force and legendary for his skills at deduction and observation (want examples?). A good family man who retired at 60 in 1955 and both daughters Trixy and Gweyth served with distinction in the RAAF throughout WW2; no clear blue bogey free skies for those dames.

  175. john sanders on May 30, 2020 at 12:01 am said:

    Having just received the desired evidence linking Carl’s wife and Harry Strangway that may well explain his having recused himself from the SM case I’m getting a better feeling abiut Carl. There was still some need at this stage of inquiries for a degree of fluidity due to unclear results of the autopsy and several ID attempts that needed follow-up so what gives. Chris knew Harry from Finsbury munitions establishment where both worked during the war and as OIC security, he would likely have been present when his former partner Detective Charles Trezona interregated her in 1943 for signs spousal contrition. …Trevona died suddenly not long after in non suspicious curcumstances aged 55.

    Chris may well have seen the early press accounts re the beach body, mentioning Detective Harry Strangway’s involvement and next day seeing the Advertiser photo of the deceased. If she then suspected, or had known for sure that it was her by now long estranged husband Carl, declared by Australia to be a persona non grata renegade from 5th November 1948; then why not go to Harry for advice. Having persued the available files I’d be confident that his wife would likely be the only person to know Carl’s identity, at least in Adelaide and she would have had no desire to have him named for a number of very good reasons…

  176. john sanders on May 30, 2020 at 5:27 am said:

    A high ranking police officer named was known to have used the term “Not too duck’n’fusty” when describing a lady he met at Adelaide mortuary in late 1948. This to a group at the Academy in 1973. From what I know now, he might well have been on about a certain Mrs. C. M. Von Czarnecki as his talk made mention of her name being of German or Polish origin. So if Errol Canney had been in the loop with his mentor Harry Strangway its pivital point, who else might it have included to enable a favourable, harmless and enduring outcome to be achieved for the merry widow One would have to include Harry’s old friend John Moss, though to what extent of complicity we can only guess; Scan Sutherland was on Harry’s SM case from the first though later selected to run interference between the Leane investigation other outside help, so he would be suspect. Then of course the ever so strange case of Robert Cowan, analyst who could find no trace of any chemicals amongst the viscal offerings in Dr. Dwyers guts bucket. Bob worked with Harry at the Finsbury plant and most probably knew the sad plight of the pretty factory first aid nurse Davis whose hubby was in an American military Gaol in Germany; Bob’s non discovery might not have been so surprising me thinks . As for the rest, I can only think of our Dr. Bennett the intern from from Royal Adelaide who left for Melbourne five minutes after inspecting the corps. He would also have bumped into Nurse Davis who may by then have resumed her pre war duties there and became complicit somehow thereby. I’ve done my best to put this all together without too much holding back and I’ll allow folks to decide what the path forward might be from their own perspective. I’d certainly recommend persusal of the two open NAA files on Henry Wilhelm Emil Carl Von Czarnecki to get a better feel for the man as a potential SM suspect and for those who wish to delve further there are two files behind a paywall with another under the name of Carl’s pal Otto Meier. ps: Don’t pay too much notice of file activity that goes beyond 1948; at the time the authorities had no idea where their man had gone to ground and assumed that he was alive in Germany…Carl of course from late ’46 or ’47 was likely to have been wandering around the S.A. interior, picking up odd jobs with other displaced persons and living rough in a humpy. He would surely have been tempted to see his son Peter one last time before his health gave out, but knowing full well the consequences if he was found and deported.

  177. john sanders on May 30, 2020 at 10:52 pm said:

    Violet Mangnoson, Keith’s younger sister, married a farmer named Symens from Renmark in 1933. In 1936 Lawrence Symens had some sort of dealings with Carl’s travel buddy Paul Johns which may have involved a commercial transaction. Paul had obtained a riders licence not long before this and given a Port Pirie address, but around that time he had been writing letters from Clare Hospital. When jailed for a second time in Queensland, before deportation to Germany in 1937 it did involve a stolen vehicle, possibly belonging to Symens, though the interstate police memos are not at all clear. Keith Mangnoson recalled that he knew Carl Thompsen from Renmark in early 1939 at which time C. Von Czarnecki was either in Perth or on his way to the Continent. This needs further exploration to determine validity.

  178. john sanders on May 31, 2020 at 11:00 am said:

    ……’The bus ticket produced and the rail ticket produced are similar to the tickets I found on the body. I did not find the slip of paper with the words Taman Shud… They happen to be the words in the affidavit of Const. John Moss attested to at the Coroner’s Inquest. In it he conceded however, that the slip was indeed part of the possessions taken from the body, by his having tendered it and having it exhibited C3 (f). When examining his words, a nuance, “I did not find the Taman Shud slip” stands out clearly giving rise to the alternate version, “Sure the TS slip was found, but not by moi, so leave me be”. Note that first responders PC Gollan and old hawk eye Strangway were not called as theur version would not have corroborared Leane’s differing explanation of the slips’ finding. Everything actually fell into place because Harry was probably not anxious to appear anyhow.

  179. john sanders on June 1, 2020 at 2:58 am said:

    I’m thinking that Christabel Czarnecki may well have returned to work at Adelaide Hospital, Finsbury plant was winding down in ’44. As it turns out that was the year that Somerton C.C. Home assisted the hospital to set up their cerebral palsey unit; so might I dare to be so bold in suggesting that a nurse Christabel Davis could have been on duty at Somerton on 31st November, 1948. I recall seeing names of some staff of that era in that great and informative rag ‘Adelaide Advertiser’.

  180. john sanders on June 1, 2020 at 5:19 am said:

    Nick: Albert Paul Johns and a partner established their car theft enterprise by means of a sophisticated enterprise for street snathes, engine/chasis number alterations and hasty disposal in major cities throughout Australia. Described in a Brisbane criminal court on 7/8/37 as a well educated German, he surprisingly copped the beef, as he had done previously in Alice Springs and was given 6 months, culminating in deportation which was contested by Sydney police who also wanted a crack at him. If we can show he was in cahoots with Carl Czarnecki aka Somerton Man than you may well have your TS slip (multiple slips) accounted for especially if an intrastate like consortium was involved…For the time being I’ll hold off on detail of Paul’s celebrated connection with another mystery death in 1931, which by volume of written related material, would leave Gerry’s Unknown Man in the shade. Johns later forged links with Moseley’s pro nazi group and was put away for the duration in 1939. In later life he ran a successful antiquarian bookshop in London, obviously dealing in fake 15th century manuscripts and the like and was still telling lies about his past to newspapers in the seventies.

  181. john sanders on June 1, 2020 at 10:41 am said:

    I have given much thought to the ’77 and ’80 outer Perth elecectoral roll entries for Henry Carl Von Czarnecki, aside from the ’37 WA regional mention under his full name of Henry William Emil Carl Von Czarnecki. From what I can gather the later listings were possibly registered by person who had obtained documentation in the earlier ligit man’s name. Other trap searches for the name only come up with several job seeking ads from ’36, and one being for the name C. Czarnecki and son on a ship from Perth to Adelaide in January ’39 which would have been his missus and young Peter heading, just before Carl’s own trip back to Germany. There are certainly no probate or burial records to suggest that any such person died in WA. but we I’ll keep trying for any post ’48 tie in…Speaking of ties, I suggest black and red with a nazi white pin stripe, not the red white and blue that has been pushed on us over the years by spy theorists.

  182. john sanders on June 1, 2020 at 12:05 pm said:

    A wild card possibilty for Henry Carl Von Czarnecki of Perth in that Carl’s son Peter bn. Perth 1936, only had one son Terry (no SA birth registration recorded) may also have had another son whilst still in his teens, say at 20 whom he named for his late father. If we go to SA geni. there’s a birth entry with the Von Czarnecki surname, but no christian name or birth year which cannot be Peter. Someone with paid up access to the site might like to check further, looking for a Henry Carl born around 1956 in S.A. who could have registered to vote in W.A. ’77 at age 21.

  183. john sanders on June 2, 2020 at 3:21 am said:

    Carl and his fellow nazi camel jockey friend Paul were both very articulate in a variety of languages and English with coloquial strine inflexion in particular. Following their their suspiciously means and place of entry to Australia in the late twenties they met and together took up casual itinerant farm work in those predominantly German settlements in the fruit bowl and grape areas with rail links to Adelaide. They were both prolific and competent writers with prose like pensmanship and economy of words that would not shame the likes of Graham Green. I note that most of their correspondents replied with fancy paper and letter heads that could later be bleached and put to good use in nazi Germany…A few of Carl’s work wanted ads from the Westralian for perusal and evaluation follow:

    15/2/36……Carl Von Czarnecki, MM, young man requires position in store ir sheep station in Nnarrogin-Williams district, refs. Fairbridge Pinjarra LL66.
    17/2/36……Carl Von Czarnecki, Manmanning, young man, 31, First class truck and tractor driver, handyman, trustworthy, abstainer, seeks employment NH22.
    17/2/36……Young married man, good knowledge general Ag. Farming, tractor or team, thoroughly capable manage small holding, sober, dependable, require decent cottage. Open 1 week. Apply C. Von Czarnecki Manmanning – Narembeen.

  184. john sanders on June 2, 2020 at 7:43 am said:

    A small volume entitled ‘Lasseter Demystified and two German Rouseabouts’ by Rev. Philipp Adolf Scherer (bn.1920 Tanunda S.A.) was published in 1996 and probably includes good detailed insight into Carl & Paul hopefully their adventures in Centralia during the late twenties and thirties. Perhaps it can be read on line somewhere though gaining access is a stretch beyond my capabilities. Of course it will depend on relevancy to SM at the end of the day.

  185. john sanders on June 3, 2020 at 4:58 am said:

    Boris aka Rob, will need to get used to Peteb’s pedantic tantrums or get a new sponsor for his “liberal views”. All the old fool has to go on, and filched from this blog at that, is Strapps’ striped duds that in his view, formed part of SM’s unseen suit. Details supporting the claim were paraphrased for young Gordon to sign off on, and to which the assisting constable also added the same non qualifying phrase thrice for old Jack Lyons, plus an ‘I should think’ for Olive. I doubt that any such terms would fit the legal definition of fact. ps: Bowes is guilding the lily with his insistance that Gordon thought that SMs ‘feet’ moved, and guessing about him not wearing glasses (wedding pics don’t count).

  186. john sanders on June 3, 2020 at 8:43 am said:

    A possibly important faux pas on my part is in my failure to pick up on the fact that Carl registered his first name as William in the Swan electoral rolls of ’36/’37 which he had never been known to use in his eleven years of residency in Australia. If it was deliberate as appears to be the case, then he was probably on the run from the authorities in S.A., NT or the eastern states where his confederate Paul Johns had moved around the same time. When johns was arrested in Qld he had mentioned that his car theft accomplice, possibly Von Czarnecki being placed into a mental institution from which he asconded.

  187. john sanders on June 4, 2020 at 5:45 am said:

    It seems quite likely that Detective Hector Gollan would have been our incomplete ‘I should say’ to the seventh power paraphraser prior to the Coronors Inquest sitting on 17th June. If so than perhaps he may be excused for omitting important directive pronouns, having himself the previous day faced a barrage of accusations in another jurisdiction concerning alleged infidelity with Coralie Bertram, directed through counsel by his lawful spouse Lurline Gollan. So now at last we have valid grounds for discarding almost all of what Gordon Strapps attested to; especially those unlikely striped trousers, that our friend across the way keeps hanging onto by a single Barbour thread.

  188. john sanders on June 4, 2020 at 6:31 am said:

    More news has just come to hand on me mate Carl Von Czanecki, though It’ll need some expressions of interest in order to draw it out.

  189. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on June 4, 2020 at 4:45 pm said:

    @Sanders

    Sorry, my English not so good. But I am interested in brown-trousered mystery. Could you elaborate your point? I had not previously heard these names.

  190. john sanders on June 6, 2020 at 7:03 am said:

    I’ll put Mr. Pozhaluysta down as an expression of interest and proceed with an update on Von Czarnecki which is sure to raise ripples: A Karl Wilhelm Emil Czarnecki (Karl with a K at front & sans Von) is recorded as being a persecuted baltic Jew sometime in 1945 and was given temporary solace at a camp in Fritzlar-Homberg where he remained until 16th January 1946 with no further contact. I have been hard at it checking all Australia bound refugee sailings for 1947/8, namely those coming under auspices of the Fifth Fleet sailings out of Bremin, examining the passenger lists of each without a likely hit. In amongst the legit displaced folk, mostly young fit men, there were recorded a few that didn’t fit the health and or security criteria for entry and were presumably sent packing without having their names recorded. This infomation will at least confirm that old Bill Simpson was never likely to have caught up with our man and his people were still in the dark on his whereabouts as late as 1952 when they quit looking. I’m still inclined to the view that they were perhaps about four years too late and might better have conducted their search closer to home.

  191. Tammy Shud on June 6, 2020 at 7:28 pm said:

    Does anyone know what Gordon is on about in his latest post about micro-writing and some sort of subterfuge he claims to have uncovered with his “forensic tool”? I’ve read it several times but can’t get my head round it.

  192. john sanders on June 7, 2020 at 1:46 am said:

    Don’t really know TS; I should say if anyone knows about Gordon’s tool Tammy Should would.

  193. Tammy Shud on June 7, 2020 at 3:31 pm said:

    This gal leaves the tools to the handymen, John.

  194. john sanders on June 7, 2020 at 11:32 pm said:

    Perhaps we could get one of the ex TS/BS anonymous posters to spill the beans on Gordon’s forensic tool, Tammy; doubt that they’d stoop so low as to get their head around it though!

  195. Tammy Shud: looks a lot like same-old-same-old to me… but I would say that, wouldn’t I?

  196. john sanders on June 8, 2020 at 1:29 pm said:

    We could go on about Gordon’s Boxall & Jestyn, Pav Fedisomov, Kaldor & Danetta, the gallopping major & verse 70 &c etc; until the cows come home. At least he comes up with a couple of unlikely suspects from time to time with help from his loyal anonymous followers. As for old Pete Bowes, our ace later day sleuth, he has been on a seemingly endless loop of condemnation of poor failed mounted counstable and acting Det. Sgt. Leane for missing a swag of vital clues; significant stuff like matches, striped duds and Tamam Shud slips, that he spotted straight off by doing a quick perceptive troll through the TS Inquest docs. But never an ID suspect from the clown prince of mirth in ten years which seems a sad enditement indeed, indeed. The old fox is sure to give us a happy Bozo birthday ‘how’s your father’ come Saturday betcha….76 trombones for his big charade and still on the bugle.

  197. milongal on June 9, 2020 at 2:20 am said:

    @JS – I’m slow and have been absent a while. Are you saying [CK]arl the Pole/Balt/Jew Czarnecki might be Carl Thompsen?

    Some thoughts (that occured as I was reading your posts) that may or may not be relevant
    – Clare (Valley) and Renmark are a couple hundred Kilometres apart (and are probably distinct districts – the Riverland (Renmark, Berri, Loxton, Barmera etc) and Clare Valley (Clare, Auburn, Minato etc)
    – There is a “Polish Hill River” in the Clare Valley – Not sure whether that might attract Poles to live (as Hahndorf and the like would have attracted Germans)
    – Czarnecki definitely sounds more Polish than Baltic (although I’ll admit I’m far more familiar with Latvian names rather than other Baltic ones)

    I find Gordon sometimes has interesting stuff (but being interesting doesn’t necessarily make it relevant to SM – or even necessarily factual). He (and Clive, and possibly others) certainly seem to go to a lot of effort to thoroughly research the background (but again, that doesn’t necessarily convince me of the bigger story). Finding the original ‘Danetta’ was clever, however I think some of the assumption and ‘proof’ that followed misunderstood the tool that was used to analyse the text (and as I tried to demonstrate we could find similar ‘patterns’ in other things if we tried hard enough). For mine, there’s SO much that has been dismissed or ignored to help create the story (not least of which is PIF and his wife both appearing later – and while I take the point that the picture isn’t necessarily PIF, there seems to then be a peculiar (and arbitrary) picking and choosing of which PIF bits still relate and which we can be dismissed – to me that’s a clear case of confirmation bias). That said, I still occasionally read some of the content and ideas. But like other sites, I’ve often found commenting is filtered (either doesn’t appear, or appears to have been edited/cut) – and while that’s a blog-owner’s prerogative it puts me off participating (and even reading) because it feels like any ideas that are ever so slightly contrary to the blog’s thoughts are dismissed and ignored (another sign of confirmation bias).

    Last time I dug through trove (I think a couple weeks back) I increasingly started to agree that a lot of the “other stuff” that happened in Adelaide around the time (including Pruzinski and Tibor and a whole host of other characters) was certainly strange – and somewhat coincidental that so much strange and not obviously related stuff was near-simultaneously occuring…..
    Maybe there was a full moon in late-Nov?

  198. milongal on June 9, 2020 at 2:29 am said:

    oh @JS I meant to mention…..
    I think the Polish are predominantly (and fairly devoutly) Catholic – probably too recent to be able to find Baptism records in Radelaide around that time (if it’s metro there’s a large Polish community down South…..possible around (but I don’t think at) Morphett Vale (not Morphetville!)? (Google suggests Ottoway in the Western Suburbs – which I remembered as being a different ethnic community (Slov(ak/ene) or Croation or something…) – but if their church is named for St Maximillian Kolbe then Polish would seem likely…..

  199. john sanders on June 9, 2020 at 3:01 am said:

    I guess a decent interval has passed since my prompt response to milongal’s query re the two distinct TS slips and his brief comment on my Carl identity, both bourne of a great deal of determined in depth investigation…What net gain after almost two weeks?, nada thats what and it goes not only for other punters that might have caught the posts on line, but also Adelaide Advertiser, Sapol and Peter-boy Von Czarnecki my nominees son, who had once been a staffer on their payroll.

    If anything I’d say the lack of comment by SM posters is not so much based on any general lack of interest or the subject not being considered worthy of reply. I’m quite hopeful that the abject silence is more than likely to be a sign of confidence that we are at last on to a very serious contender. As for the other nominal parties to the proceedings, I’m certain that they would have also responded by now if they had not taken the Henry Wilhelm Emil Carl Von Czarnecki identification seriously.

  200. john sanders on June 9, 2020 at 7:14 am said:

    milongal: Actually my Carl was neither Polish, Baltic or Jewish; He was in fact a home grown German and a Lutheran, though not devout. After the war, due to his ability for faking paper work such as legation letter heads and his near polymath language skills, he could well have used any ruse necessary to obtain whatever credentials required for his return to his family in Australia and ASAP.

  201. john sanders on June 9, 2020 at 11:12 am said:

    milongal: Apart from letters disguised as naked ladies in a certain well known book, my knowledge of their assigned values is admittedly rather scanty. Still I can’t see any cleverness about matching five rather common letters forming a word like Danetta to the ROK code, which just happens to comprise over two thirds of the alphabet. Of course at the time, Peteb of ” I’m a believer ” fame, thought it extremely clever and said so in glowing terms. So who am I to buck the trend, my only comments of that event being related to Danetta identifying with the devils number in Lapland which of course drew no replies….bloke can’t ‘ardly win a trick.

  202. milong on June 10, 2020 at 5:10 am said:

    I forget the exact specifics of how Danetta came about, but I remember originally thinking (despite etan being in the most common 6 letters, and d probably in the most common 10) that it was certainly intriguing (although in the absence of anything more nothing past intriguing).

    But beyond that all the excitement seemed to be about the output from a tool which simply tries to apply different code-breaking/analysis techniques…..but wasn’t particularly meaningful unless it was assumed to have been produced in the exact sanme order as this online tool had decided to output it….

    I haven’t considered the microwriting too much – not because I don’t think the technique doesn’t exist, but because if we’re struggling to get properly legible results from it today, then how on earth were people in the late 40’s actually reading the stuff?

  203. Tammy Shud on June 10, 2020 at 12:01 pm said:

    @Sanders @milongal quite apart from 1) the byzantine “recovery” techniques required; 2) the evidently pareidolic nature of the “micro-writing” (the harder you look, the more you start seeing feels like a give-away); and 3) the frequent opaque treatises regarding others’ subterfuges, “evidenced” with meaningless pictures that are presented as conclusive evidence of god only knows what…

    The thing that seems missing is the interpretation and the reasons. Why is “Danetta” meaningful? Why are the numbers relevant. How is micro writing that is concealed across huge swathes of page real estate to be sequenced in order to render it meaningful.

    I think others have asked this over the years, but I haven’t seen any answers.

  204. john sanders on June 10, 2020 at 10:56 pm said:

    @ Tammy Should: Danetta, ‘ as God be my judge’, is perhaps merely a reflexion of a great man’s liberal, humanitarian values…according to me mate Bob.

  205. john sanders on June 11, 2020 at 6:59 am said:

    Just a couple of days back I made mention of my Carl candidate having been a Lutheran which I would have left at that, but for a Beaumont crossover of sorts. 1948 was a time of some consternation between elements of the Lutherans in Australia, one of which had allegences to the fatherland and the other like Pastor Clarie Zwecks mob of 144 Jetty Rd. Glenelg to Blighty. I noticed that the church’s location between Partridge St. and Brighton Rd. (Somerton bus Sts. out & back ’48) was in very close proximity to Peter’s cakes at 152, Oliver’s bakery at 158 and Wenzels cakes at 164…..If Carl wasn’t in such a rush to die he could have de-bused to swing by Pr. Zweck for his confessional adieu, after which he may well have tucked into a pie or pasty, taking a spare for ‘ron’ (1/- no sauce) then hopped on the next bus to his destiny stop at Alvington-on-Sea.

  206. john sanders on June 11, 2020 at 12:35 pm said:

    Peteb: According to Alf Boxall, when the police accompanied him back to his house on 27th or 28th July, 1949, they did ask whether he still had the ROK given to him by the unamed nurse, but didn’t wish to see it. That particular verse dual language copy or another copy wasn’t produced until a gentleman of the press asked him to long after the cops had decamped, apparently satisfied that their assigned task was satisfactorily completed. Now apparently you have another contrary version which has been posted over your way; so show us the meat or else delete and beat a retreat as is your wont.

  207. john sanders on June 12, 2020 at 3:16 am said:

    Only response from our all knowing apropos the police lack of interest in Alf’s ROK, was his timely removal of two related posts from his site, which of course I had lifted in expectation. As for the remainder of threadbare thread, lets try to do them in order; Alf Boxall, 11 Parer St. Maroubra, Susie or Isobel, Lieutenant WT, Georges Head, Clifton Gardens, A/Capt Tom Musgrave & Joyce, 6th September ’45, Bismark Ils, AJS & Matchless.

    It’s no big deal to remember such detail after four odd years and Jessie was not likely to have forgotten events just before and just after hostilities. Off course the home address could have been found in the Sydney directory or off the letter alleged to have gone to her mother in ’46. As for Susie, I didn’t know that Jess ever spoke of her; anyhow her name may have come up at your ‘bar’ in general banter and I have a feeling that the other Mrs. Musgrave had been aquainted with Suzie.

  208. john sanders on June 12, 2020 at 6:57 am said:

    Peteb: Now in your little sideshow speel, you completely miss Alf Boxall’s point, that not only didn’t the fuzz care to see his ROK, they didn’t wish to visit his house either. You also may have misunderstood his version of how he came to be under notice. Again, from his own lips, he was informed that ‘the nurse’ read about a copy of ROK having had a message on the flyleaf which resonated and so she had informed police about having giving a copy to him. True or not it does make sense and I always considered that to be more likely than cops doing their illegal reverse phone number trick, thus allowing Detective Canney’s initiating contact with it’s subscriber, Sister J. E. Thomson.

  209. john sanders on June 13, 2020 at 9:06 am said:

    Turns out my memory ain’t as sharp as I had thought ie., 19 Parer St. not 11 as stated, Isabelle instead of Isobel (Boxall); Solomon Islands, not the Bismarks which are a little to the left. As for the bikes; Alfred John Alfred Boxall, was the dirt track specialist in the 30s, so the trove bike details probably refer to him and not our Alf who older and not so well known as his younger namesake cousin… My blue and always ready to fess up when I’m wrong.

  210. john sanders on June 19, 2020 at 4:52 am said:

    Any body still remember that fine day in mid January, 2017 when Cramer and his Misca-teers introduced Major Pavel Ivanovic Fedosimov to the world under proud tutelage of Clive Turner who manned the Russian desk in those days. We’re not to know who stuffed up, but Misca who was then in favour, blamed her boss who, due to his vast natural talent for pre post photographic imaging alterations, was the most likely offender as things transpired. Case in question resulted in one of the on line portraits depicting a digitally altered head shot sans glasses, of the then Soviet Ambassador to the USA Nikolai Novikov with the Fedisimov name caption in full below in thickest print format known to mankind. Gordon Cramer with his usual pomous aplomb remarked at the time how well the man’s natural features compared with those of the SM beach body photo….The weirdest part is that in the original Tas/Pravda press photo that Gordon had nicely cut and pasted for effect, standing right beside Ambassador Novikov, unloved & unwanted was our good old saddle nose Pavel, all of six five, narrow stoop shoulders and hands like a fairy’s. GC with his usual fine eye for detail having obviously deserted him, had apparently passed over Pavel Fedosimov, his soon to be one and only SM contender. At that time Pav must have been considered a mere distraction and a nonentity; which of course any wise ass would know to be God’s honest truth.

  211. john sanders on June 20, 2020 at 3:44 am said:

    I’m not going to deny our grand museum piece, Paul Lawson’s right to fantasize a little about those heady old WW2 days in which he was not personally placed in harms way. He is said to have given Gorgon’s man Clive Walker? the good oil on clandestine meetings between Alf the complicit dupe and special agent Jestyn. Apparently they met in the gardens of RNSH nurses quarters, though if such were for the passing of information or other doings, Paul did not stipulate but he did comment on exchanges of shipping information at another other harbourside location. I very much doubt that Paul, the Adelaide animal stuffer was a regular visitor to Sydney and I’m quite certain that he didn’t get to see any gardens like those depicted in the BS/TS fanciful assimily; reason being there weren’t any, but for the open expanse at front of the hospital. Built in 1909 (date at entrance) it was not so long in the tooth as Cramer would have us believe in his just posted ‘Come into the Garden’ dead thread makeover segment. PS. Had a trainee nurse, and her man in uniform been seeking a shady nook wherein to engage in hanky panky, the grounds of a major centre like RNSH, especially during war time, would not be an ideal venue for such discreet doings.

  212. john sanders on June 24, 2020 at 3:34 am said:

    I’m not normally one for stroking another’s ego or any other pliable fancy. In the case of Gordon Cramer’s rather top notch photographic kit and other sundry self imaging paraphernalia however, I make the exception. From the well detailed self serving description it is obvious that he has everything a dedicated detertmined crook might require to facilitate a well constructed fake ‘light lens and letter’ con if he be so inclined. Of course we could well imagine that such versatile equipment would be similarly well suited to inocuous enhancing of perhaps less than perfect images of field photographic surveys. Ones that a chap like ‘Flash G’ might find satisfying in his free time such as wetland bird watching from a well sighted ‘blind’ at Sunshine Coast’s Alexandria Bay free beach, and not far from our meglomaniac flim flammer’s home studio.

  213. john sanders on June 25, 2020 at 9:00 am said:

    I never can miss a chance to expose Gordon Cramer’s self serving lies whenever possible which means every single subject he has ever raised; such patholigical compusion makes it impossible for such a false pretender to avoid such devious habits. To-day’s deliberatate ‘mistake’ relates to his new ‘BOOM’ technology for lifting layer upon layer of script from 1948 press photos to reveal the hidden micro writing beneath. On this occasion we are treated to the tiny letters V1DR which according to the old fibber, represents a real V 1 DR rocket once stored at the Salesbury WRE Adelaide. For starters I doubt there was never a DR designate of the German V1, but no matter because there never was even a standard model of the mark at WRE. In the spirit of fair play there were two completely dissimilar V2’s without engines or war heads shipped through Adelaide, one of which was briefly displayed at WRE around 1947. Both being deactivated museum pieces and they can now be found at the Australian War Memorial Canberra. PS. Open BS/TS links at your peril. js

  214. john sanders on June 26, 2020 at 8:15 am said:

    What are the odds Peter Bowes..? Well pretty good as a hypothetical question and it’s not as if the whole Robert Victor Hemblys-Scales scenerio has not been done to death on all four dedicated Tamam Shud blog sites in recent times, all at urging of that dark horse from the golden west Petedavo who is not so well known here (tC). I have no personal views for or agin, but permit me indulgence to remind you, in particular, of our fiery past discussions pertaining to Big Bob Wake and his own fondness for taking on ‘wet work’ contracts when required. So your own current pursuits are quite within the framework of what I proposed originally and of course by your getting out and buying Bob’s bio ‘No medals or Ribbons’ bio you showed that my advice was accepted. I hope to be able to read it myself one fine day when all this has finally been done and dusted on my terms of course.

    Something you might not be aware of is that Robert ‘the brat’ Scales’, as the lads of 12th Army staff effectionately called him to his chubby face, left highschool in ’39 at age 18, went up to Cambridge for a three year quicky honours degree in some smartish subject, then in ’44 went directly into Military Intelligence and from recruit to a brevit Major on Monty’s planning staff for the big ‘D Day Operation commencing in June. By the time he got to Australia with Sillitoe and Co. he was on the rise in Brit. Int. circles coming from a lowly GCHQ post war operative to tea boy to the spooks over at the MI5/6 building. So at the tender age of 26 and some months brat was given the top secret job at most reluctant authorization of Ben the locomotive driver Chiffley to set in train a catch-me-fuck-me excercise of the Lapstone conference which the whole intelligence community knew about well in advance. It was an entertaining side show to be sure and some months later he got to sign his three page full and comprehensive after action report, compiled by an unidetified staffer in FF no doubt.

    As for Bob Scales relationship with dead Dr. Sprog and his dutch widow whose name escapes me; guess you got it all from the Geni page managed by noneother than Petedavo or the recent similarly worded post from Byron Devison which if correct suggests some form of game changing move is on the cards; especially now that Cramer has jumped in for his chance to star. For a start any ties would have to be with the dead doctor’s missus and Bob Scales fiancee, Ida Lupino? (whatever) and I’d suspect only some spurious cock relationship if any. Certainly not pukka British blood ties which I’m sure you were suggesting as part of a death before disaster honour killing perhaps. You also hinted of the Sprogs as being of a somewhat younger age group than our subject which seems not the case, as from memory the good doctor was at least fifty odd when he passed on in the thirties. Anyhow I wish you success in what you’re on about and hope things fall into place with young Robert Victor Hamblys ‘hiphen’ Scales sooner rather than later.

  215. john sanders on June 26, 2020 at 9:09 am said:

    So nice of you to reply Gordon but sorry no good news for you and although I didn’t dare open your newspaper link, I didn’t have to. Whether papers called your V1RD’s rockets, doodle bugs or buz bombs, it makes no difference because none came to Australia leastwise in March 1947. A single vastly different V2 rocket made it’s way via Fremantle and Port Adelside to Melbourne in March of that year and another was temporarily housed at Salisbury WRE in October whilst being broken down for it’s multi load road transport to Canberra shortly thereafter.

    Thanks for your concern my health. Let me assure that I’m holding together rather well for 72, still physically active and mentally allert, also well capable of holding my own against the likes of tinkers, tailors, beggermen and thieves like thee at 73?

  216. peteb on June 26, 2020 at 11:27 am said:

    I appreciate our precision, Johnno, and sincerely hope your health isn’t as bad as is elsewhere suspected to be.

  217. john sanders on June 26, 2020 at 12:22 pm said:

    There you go again Gordon. I’ve no idea why you completely twist the truth to push an argument based on fabricated evidence which shows up your marginal limitations when trying to put one over on better minds. I’m not saying that an Fi-103 is not part of the AWM collection, most military museums have one and yes a doodle bug did make it’s way out to the colonies. That was in October 1945 (not ’46 as you wrongly claim) aboard the SS Sussex from memory and intended as a museum display, it being then restored at Laverton Victoria for onward delivery to Canberra. This operation has naught to do with your claimed V1’s being housed at Salisbury S.A. in 1947 which you attempted to introduce as part of some espionage related deal involving your tired old Code Page/Verse 70//TS slip uplift bullshit. Not forgetting insuations of complicity concerning Paul Lawson’s spin on poor Bill Moulds, Jess Harkness, and Alf Boxall, with the help of PeteDavo and sadly Byron Deveson and Clive Turner. I’ll say it oncce and then it us done, your efforts to move these operations back to Adelaide where it all began falls short just like the buzz bombs that were, landed in the channel or overshot London and Coventry to bad homework, just like those that are part and parcel to your deception ploys.

  218. john sanders on June 26, 2020 at 1:05 pm said:

    What are the odds? says Peteb…”Updated just slightly” or more likely amended quite conveniently to compensate for wrongly construed relationships of Sprods and Scales to the sixth degree, as proposed in order to keep everyone honest at this most critical juncture in SM investigations..

  219. john sanders on June 27, 2020 at 3:50 am said:

    At Gordons somewhat suspicious recommendation I’ve been poking about here and there for Australian WRE connections for his 3RAR rocket (V1RD) variant. It turns out that it was most likely a 3 stage 1950s improvement on the original Von Braun 2 stage atmospheric bumper RTV-G-4 pressure rocket, based of course on his German V2 from ’44. The development facility in Alabama where Snowy Braun and his ex Nazi ‘Paper Clip’ team worked was called Redstone Arsenal Research (RAR)) and most of their rockets were launched from the White Sands test range NM between 1948 and 1950. Although the Brits and Ruskies also utilised the old V2 technology for their own rocket R & D pprograms, none were not up and going until the fifties. Somerton man’s premature demise in 1948 does not seem to have viable connections with any rocket development or testing coming out of Salisbury WRE period. Another fizzer compliments of BS/TS , their latest V1 RD never getting off the launch pad (ramp), just like all their bum leads, as usual and as expected. This non SM related topic (diversion) is now burnt out as far as I’m concerned and will not be part of any further discussion

  220. john sanders on June 27, 2020 at 9:29 am said:

    Peteb: I really can’t find too much to gripe about on your latest Robert Hemblys-Scales search out and destroy mission with my former fifth columnist nazi assassin team member as his probable target. The cove found dead on Somerton Beach was most likely involved in the death of a well known Australian who had been condemned to die for inciting commission of war crimes against the German trench soldiers in 1915. My main SM candidate Carl Von Czarnecki was on 6th November,1948 additionally condemed as being of ‘renegade’ status by the Australian authorities through Bill Simpson chief of National Security and Arthur Calwell Immigration minister, which by terms of it’s literal meaning rendered his life doubly forfeit. How could the poor fellow win with two guns pointed at his head?..

    Now it stands to reason that the two Bobs, Wake and Scales, through their own sources, knew about the wanted man’s pre war history in Australia, about his wife and son living in Adelaide, but most imperitive to their own separate missions, that the best chance would come using ten year old Peter Boy and long suffering wife Christabel as bait. Carl had somehow evaded detection since 1945 and eventually managed to re-enter Australia with false papers as a displaced Russian or Balt named Karl Czarnecki possibly in ’47. By maintaining a low profile in bush localities known to him he may have lived rough but was used to it, until his recurring bad health eventually forced his hand…Which Bob won out with the baited pasty is anyone’s guess though the big feller must be favourite you’d reckon.

    Anyhow Peteb, if you dice all the bitches along with Alf none of whom could possibly be connected to Carl or his own victim Harry in 1931 and carry on as if you are just getting started on the investigation on your pat, you’ll be on track to find out whether Bob the brat from Blighty or his namesake from Downunder gets the maze master badge. While you’re at it try to shake off your advisers without any hard feelings if at all possible because rest assured, I’ve been through all their so called good oil and it ain’t Castrol believe me. Apart from that my own modest experience as a trained observer of such folks gives me to believe that they won’t be around should you ‘wipeout’.

  221. Peteb on June 27, 2020 at 11:52 am said:

    Bravo mate, good shit that.

  222. john sanders on June 29, 2020 at 4:14 am said:

    The following is yet another fine example of where Peteb’s trusted informants in the ongoing Sprod/Delprat/Teppima/Hembly-Scales/Tamam Shud involvement gave him deliberate misleading information end on end. This was the case of the long dead doctor Milo Sprod supposedly having had his surgery right beside John Freeman’s pharmacy at the relevant time in the brief. As if it mattered, there were in those days at least twenty commercial premises along Jetty road between 24A (Freeman) and 25 which until the doctor’s death in 1934, was a surgery/resindence set on the corner of the Durham/Moseley St. confluence. So that puts paud to the suggestion of the ROK being found mere feet from where Freeman’s car was parked or that Lica Delprat must somehow have been the control. This just points to one of several instances where Peteb’s Tomsbytwo site put trust in those he considered knowledgeable on Robert Victor Hemblys-Scales, such as his perported blood relationship to the Sprod or Delprat family in 1948. To figure it’s derivation we need go no further than to note how well connected three of the informants are to another site, which has by pure chance itself, just covered the ’49 Hemblys-Scales, Teppima wedding in Canberra including a clip of ex PM Billy Hughes with the bride serving no purpose; compliments of Gordon Cramer and BS/TS for the fawning minions and anonymous devotees.

  223. john sanders on June 29, 2020 at 6:25 am said:

    I noticed not quickly enough, that the wedding photo is up on Tomsbytwo but the original source is likely the same. On Gordon’s latest Hemblys-Scales thread, his photos which also serve no purpose but ego stroking, are of the 1948 Lapstone conference along with Bob H-S’s acting minister’s (Chifley PM) authorization for the make believe security ‘excercise’. One that might normally have been a fair dinkum Bob Wake CIS ‘show’, he being uninvited, so therein may have led to the intense ongoing rivalry between the competing spook forces for SM’s scalp.

  224. Peteb on June 29, 2020 at 8:34 am said:

    Johnno, how many times? There were TWO investigations taking place at the same time, ok?

  225. Byron Deveson on June 29, 2020 at 10:03 am said:

    JS, Robert Victor Hemblys Scales wife’s aunt was married to Dr Milmo Sprod.

    Tania Virginia Hemblys-Scales (nee Teppema)
    Birthdate: circa 1925
    Birthplace: Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Daughter of Petrus Ephrem Teppema and Elizabeth Francisca Carmen Delprat

    Milmo Sprod’s wife was ā€œLicaā€ Elizabeth Theodora Delprat
    BIRTH 1882 Jorga, Spain
    DEATH 18 JUN 1963 South Australia
    Father Guillaume Daniel Delprat(1856–1937)
    Mother Henrietta Marie Wilhelmine Sophia Jas(1858–1937)
    Marriage 11 Apr 1916 Victoria to Dr. Milo Weeks Sprod (1882–1934)

    In other words Elizabeth Francisca Carmen Delprat (Hembly Scales’ mother in law) was a sister to Milmo Sprod’s wife.

  226. john sanders on June 29, 2020 at 12:02 pm said:

    Peteb & Byron: I’ve no doubts about your dual investigation Pete, in fact I have tauted that case scenario all along so you get no arguments from me on that score. It’s the reason why Harry Strangway was most likely taken off the case rather expeditiously if you get my drift, being mindful of my belief that he knew SM’s wife Christabel…..and Byron I’ve made an depth study of the Delprat/Teppima families and know as much about them within reason as I need eg., like two of the Delprat sisters marrying diplomats (Portugal/ Netherland) and one to a knight of the realm in Doug Mawson. As for your Elizabeth (Lica) bn. 1882, she and Milo Weeks Sprod bn. 1882 had four kids including twins Milo & John bn. 1917 who were identical twins. Ex Aust. PM William Hughes of the ’49 wedding pic, was a friend of old Guillaume (Bill) the BHP revolutionary mine boss who went on to start Newcastle Steel, Port Pirie smelting operation and Iron Knob extractions. All these good folks were pure as the driven slush so could not hardly have been connected to clandestine activities in any way shape or form as you amigos suggest. As for Bob the brat Hemblys-Scales who knows, after all he was understudy to Roger Hollis and had studied at Cambridge, allbeit long after the five and turned out a to be a dud, let alone an assassin…If you need to know the truth about anthing related to espionage, don’t hesitate to ask Gordon Cramer because he’s with AfIO. js

  227. john sanders on June 29, 2020 at 1:50 pm said:

    Byron: A little confusion of which you are in no way at fault; there being two sisters named Elizabeth, one who we know as Lica and the other Eli(s)abeth Francisca Carmen, who of course was Tania’s mum, but of course the sisterly relationship leaves the niece aunt factor intact. In recent times it has been most often claimed that Robert was the blood tie-in to Lica and as we can clearly see in any case there would not even be a tenuous in-law relativity until his marrage to Tania in February, ’49 long after SM’s sad demise. Are you ok with that?…

  228. john sanders on June 29, 2020 at 10:58 pm said:

    Byron: “the Tamam Shud book was found a few feet away from where Robert Hemblys Scales niece lived. What are the odds?”…is what you wanted Peteb to believe and ultimately gave him cinfidence to erronously announce that “Milmo” Sprod’s wife Lica was the controller for Jessica and Alf. The poor woman was 67 years old and only came into play when Petedavo found that she had interest in poisons and a niece who was about to pay a visit with her boyfriend Bob Scales whom she likely new nothing about…Things can get out of hand this way and by playing up Nifty Nev, Bill Waterhouse and an alleged communist plant heading up the Aussie AG’s department in Lionel Murphy (my boss) doesn’t help old man.

  229. john sanders on June 30, 2020 at 2:23 am said:

    Poor GC has plainly lost it, now insinuating that his latest alter ego ‘an omnibus’ has aquired reverse hallucination syndrome based on his repudiation of the BS/TS widely accepted code page and verse 70 micro writing phenominon. Perhaps G. Cramer is himself suffering a bout of perverse elucidation which can be terminal if left untreated…I’ve been reliably informed that 3RAR can help.

  230. john sanders on June 30, 2020 at 4:50 am said:

    Detective Errol Canney by name and nature was also a very dominating and astute police officer who worked the SM case following Detective Harry Strangway’s likely forced transfer on grounds of a possible conflict of interest after just a few days. Errol worked with Hec Gollan and Harry’s usual partner Scan (Jock) Sutherland and during the first week they were kept busy taking people (mostly ghouls) to the mortuary in attempt to make a positive body identification. Two men likely to have come forward at the time were Alfred Davis, Carl Von Czarnecki’s brother-in-law who had not seen tge declared renegade (traitor) in ten years. The other Keith Mangnoson, just released from a mental asylum seemed positive about his Carl ‘Thompsen’, an immigrant rouseabout from Renmark and the body being identical in spite of the long interval. What Keith may not have told the cops was that this Carl and a German cohort had also had some questionable dealings with his own brother-in-law in early 1937. It’s more than likely that Canney may well have been told by Strangway about the need for discretion concerning a security matter that could create problems at a federal level if made public. One can well imagine that the nutter Mangnoson was warned off in no uncertain terms by Canney in his inimitable overbearing manner but it seems the warning fell on deaf ears. When Keith started mouthing off about his positive ID with publication of an upcoming inquest six months later, tragedy befell his family, later claimed by his wife Roma to be in consequence of her hubby’s loose tongue. In later years Commissioner Canney, in his role as head of the international police peace keeping mission in Cyprus, had tyrants like Greek Archbishop Makarios and the ruthless Turkomen warlords on their knees before him; so his role in the SM investigation can not be treated lightly Peteb.

  231. john sanders on July 2, 2020 at 5:51 am said:

    Peteb: I’m not so troubled about you getting MI5 Bob’s name wrong or timing of the Freeman? ROK handover eight months after the fact, as opposed to your six, a lapse based on the approximate date of finding given press release of 22/7/49. What really gets to me is that nobody will accept that SM’s Staminas as with the similarly styled Marcos in the suitcase, did not have a standard fob as the belt flap overlap would not give access . Instead it had a small concealed change pouch that was sewn into both side pockets. The Stamina brand was only made by L.S.Isaacs in NSW, so if SM’s duds had been knock offs from Victoria as seems possible then all bets are off. I note in Burt Cleland’s typed documents for the 1958 inquest plus some hand written jottings from much later, he only refers to a money pocket and does not lay claim to finding the Tamam Shud slip which is at odds with everthing stated by Feltus. Now that these little things are out of the way and we’re on track again, perhaps the inquiry can move forwards and with luck turn up something of more substance than that to which we are used.

  232. Peteb on July 2, 2020 at 8:12 am said:

    Thank you, Johnno, duly noted.

  233. john sanders on July 3, 2020 at 5:36 am said:

    Peteb: Duly noted, duly ignored, which is your perogative and so not for me to take exception. My concern is that you still manage to get the Hemblys-Scales surname wrong, more obvious when you post it as as a headline piece so you’ll perhaps take more care in future. PS. That’s coming from a bloke who just learnt that erroneous has an extra ‘e’.

  234. Peteb on July 3, 2020 at 11:09 am said:

    Yeah yeah yeah …. Doing it now.

  235. john sanders on July 3, 2020 at 1:56 pm said:

    Peteb: Just checked the correction; well done that man, and of course the new yarn appears to be loosely based on Gordon’s Delprat/Teppima/Sprod/Soviet/ MI5 links with his new alter ego supporting cast over at the Big Footy blog which seems to have impressed some punters, though still no closer to SM’s identity which can wait of course. Wonder what became of ‘redacted’ with his Samsung tapatalk gizmo and the little bimbo ‘Kinbru’ who sounds like Willow Cramer. Of course we don’t hear much from that great site these days and must as the question, why?

  236. peteb on July 4, 2020 at 4:19 am said:

    Well, a man did pick up a bit here and there, but overall I’m rating the failed entrapment yarn as pretty tight, which is a shame in a way as I was getting somewhere with an old boy in Footscray who had vague tales about a rubaiyat quoting villain in the 40’s.

  237. john sanders on July 4, 2020 at 8:34 am said:

    In acknowledging Cramer’s latest thread on External Affairs boss John Burton’s suspected far leftish leanings, I’m somewhat surprised that he did not pick up on his bogus top secret covering letter on Hamblys-Scales alleged after action report on the Lasptone security excercise which is undated and unsigned. The letter is dated 8/1/48 which although conceivably a typo, still does not account for Burton saying “I will probably be away when Hollis arrives……..” Some say that Hollis may have made a lightning visit in mid ’49 to check on Courtney-Young which has never been confirmed besides his own Soviet desk assistant Bob H-S was then in Cairo and in either case the letter still sucks.

  238. john sanders on July 5, 2020 at 4:15 am said:

    Tomsbytwo’s failed entrapment yarn could well have been tighter if Peteb had substituted long gone Hamblys-Scales for MI5’s new ASIO new nominee Courtney-Young who’s recent arrival in Canberra would fit the time line for that cold chill experienced in April. Lica Delprat’s cock nephew, sporting Safari suit & keppi, was by then at his new Cairo desk doing his best to lure soviet moles for Roger and trying to put the failed ‘orstruckinfailure’ mission behind him.

  239. Peteb on July 5, 2020 at 9:57 am said:

    Long gone bullshit. He was chasing NKVD goons let loose by the Lapstone Conference ..

  240. john sanders on July 5, 2020 at 1:46 pm said:

    Peteb: Only goons in Adelaide ’48 must have been ex nazis; NKVD had shut down by August ’46. Where to next?…

  241. Peteb on July 5, 2020 at 11:02 pm said:

    MGB then … whatever. Goons.

  242. Peteb on July 6, 2020 at 7:10 am said:

    … and a large vote of thanksalot for the Courtney Young number. Bob didn’t have a long stay for a ā€˜permanent MI5 resident, did he?

  243. john sanders on July 7, 2020 at 5:19 am said:

    As Aust. Minister for External Affairs and UN fondling father, it’s a wonder H. Evatt got an invite to the 1949 Teppema wedding, having just tossed their Regal Dutch sovereignty under ‘an omnibus’ by giving Sukarno free title to four hundred years of colonial rule in the Indies. Betcha he didn’t get to kiss Robert H-S or his virgin? bride, speaking of which It has now been confirmed that a home grown CIS hit squad and not Bob’s MI5 lads, took down the alleged Nazi renegade at Somerton Beach on 31/11/48. This recent filing courtesy of AfIO’s affiliate BS/TS G. Cramer (Stn. Chief).

  244. Charlie Chuckles on July 7, 2020 at 9:23 am said:

    I’d be looking at Tania’s letters before and after their decamp … and who would ever believe a foreign intelligence agency could contrive a plan complicated enough to implicate a relative of a highly placed allied intelligence agency officer in the hope of bringing him down?
    Bit of a chuckle, ain’t it.

  245. john sanders on July 7, 2020 at 11:26 pm said:

    Gold star certificate for Chuckler of the week Peter Bowes of ….. ….. I’d imagine Tania’s letters are by now in care, custody and control of one Peter Davidson aka Petedavo who seems to be the authorized Delprat and Teppema agent for those seeking genealogical data. Strange that Milo & Lica are not part of the haul so there is still hope of securing some decent dirt on their issue if there is any to dig up. I’d go out on a limb to say the Sprog family’s SM involvement would be about on par with Gordon’s clandestine secret agent Major Wlliam Jestyn Moulds OBE, ZERO!

  246. Peteb on July 8, 2020 at 6:58 am said:

    NAA’s got them. .. all of them, boxes of undigitised material. Dear Robert, why did we have to leave Australia so soon? And why didn’t auntie Lica come down to say goodbye?
    And who were those two heavyset gentleman who seemed to have an interest in your welfare?

  247. john sanders on July 8, 2020 at 8:13 am said:

    Madeleine: Dear Cousin, a big hello to the Sprods from Bobby and me, trust all is well etc., and happy 69th birthday wishes to Aunt Lica from niece Tania and Bobby in Shepeards Hotel Cairo. Hope that the new battery wheel chair enables Aunt to enjoy some outdoor time after being stuck in that stuffy old town city townhouse since Uncle’s passing all those years ago. Thank God she didn’t have to give up a medical practice or anything so drastic and never having owned a car in her life, she wouldn’t miss driving at all….etc..Love to all, Tania Virginia & Bob Teppema H-S

  248. peteb on July 8, 2020 at 11:47 pm said:

    Rubbish, she was playing golf and participating in road car races for most of her life. Or so I heard. You might just spot her in one of the Jessica / Prosper car rally newspaper shots.

  249. john sanders on July 10, 2020 at 4:55 am said:

    One doesn’t have to look far to find trove stories on the adventures of German born Nazi Paul Johns who, consequence of a stint in Australia from 1926 through ’37, became both hero and villain in turn; Initially as the tough gun toting dingo scalper and cameleer who guided gold seeker Lewis ‘Harold’ Lasseter on his futile trek into the empty interior, only to be then accused by some of murdering his hirer and being a thief and con artist to boot. This of course amply attested to by subsequent convictions for fraud and car stealing culminating in deportation to Nazi Germany.

    For much of his decade long sojourn in the Australian wilds, Paul Johns was in the company of another young German who traveled with him between farm labour work in South Australia, then into the dry interior regions around Alice Springs. From archival files, we know that the companion Carl Von Czarnecki spent the early years working with Johns in the Clare district before the pair headed north to try their hand at prospecting. The pair returned to work closer to the coat where Carl married a Clare nurse and sometime in 1935 the newlyweds ventured to the west looking for better job prospects leaving Johns to go it alone. Some time in 1936 the lads seem to have hooked up again for nefarious pursuits, the pair tgen moving between Port Pirie, Adelaide and the Murray districts at which point they separted when Carl fell ill.

    In all the time of being bum buddies, Carl seems to have spurned attention, leaving Johns to get all the media attention, but whether this was a deliberate ploy to remain incognito for some past indiscretion or not we’ll never know. It bares metioning that between the time of his arrival in ’27 and his voluntary departure back to Germany in ’39, our Carl seems to have gone almost unoticed by any one apart from the west around Margaret River, to the extent of becoming more ir less incognito an as such unlkely to be identified should his picture appear in the press, either dead or alive. Fortunately there is light at the end of the tunnel and some answers will no doubt be enlightening one way or another.

  250. john sanders on July 10, 2020 at 10:22 am said:

    For what it’s worth, Carl Von Czarnecki was a keen photographer and when Special Branch Police went through his left belongings in the mid forties, some years after his return to Germany, they found many images taken during his prospecting time with Paul Johns in the Centralia region circa. ’29 to ’33. In those early times small travelling cameras like the Kodak pocket and similar German Voigtlander were most susceptable to dust and moisture; the best place to store them when not in use, along with exposed film being inside thick socks. No doubt most will recall that there was a notable absence of spare socks in the so-called Keane travelling suitcase and one might be inclined to the view, as has been suggested, that any valuables secreted in socks would have been vulnerable. Too tempting a target for staff or police to overlook when going through the contents therein at the old Adelaide Station cloakroom…From my research into Von Czarnecki’s descendants, all including son Peter, grandson Terry and two great grandsons Ryan & Daniel chose careers related to graphic arts of which they are quite well known. In fact Carl’s father-in-law Arthur Davis was a commercial photographer in the old dart before he became a Baptist Pastor in Broken Hill pre WW1.

  251. john sanders on July 11, 2020 at 9:14 am said:

    Congratulations to Gordon Cramer on chalking up a half million visitors to his BS site and includes my own modest contribution of an estimated 30 hits per diem for four years or more. Then of course there’s those many anonymous posters from the Sunshine Coast who’d be good for a whack, with largest contributor by far being being Gordon’s own aliases making up most of the rest; Apart from those few plucky old ‘red’ baiters like BD and new kid on the block PeteDavo, both doing their level best to bump the number to 500,000 mostly misguided dupes.

  252. john sanders on July 12, 2020 at 5:13 am said:

    Peteb: All ado about nothing is my take on Paul Lawson’s work diary and not worth contemplating in the context of any evidentiary value. As for validity on the alleged claims of a post war ‘shipping news’ conspiracy involving Boxall and nurse Jestyn, we must wonder where they met to exchange notes; surely not Paul’s suggested venue of RNSH nurses garden, a non existant figment of the Cramer imagination, as was the whole ‘Lawson/Turner interview concept from the outset. You of all people must surely be aware it was all likely to have been fabricated and a front for Gordon’s self serving ‘reds in the bed’ rhetoric. Fallback if things went wrong resting square on the shoulders of ever dependable and prime BS/TS patsy Clive Turner/Walker? whoever he might be.

  253. You’re right of course, dusty, I’m way out of my depth here. Maybe I should just grab the Woodie and a couple of wahines, hit the wild surf and score a couple of wicked barrels.
    Then, when I’m sucking back white rum with the local bruddas, maybe I’ll put some outasight stories up on a surfing blog.
    Hangin’ ten, bro.
    Out there.

  254. john sanders on July 14, 2020 at 5:55 am said:

    In 1934 mining licences were taken out in the Tennant Creek district by Paul Johns and his rabble-rousing partners Beecher Noel Webb of Adelaide and claimed WW1 Lieutenant George F. Lee (doutbtful). Webb who was a solicitor was a known to be a persistent writer to newspapers regarding alleged ill treatment of inland blacks subject to goverment native protection laws. One of their known associates was a mysterious ‘journalist from Sweden’ a T. Anderson (never identified) who wrote damning reports in syndicated Swedish/German newspapers re attrocious living conditions and exploitatiin of natives that he witnessed during his seven years in the Australian outback. Just the type of stuff that one might expect from a planted nazi insurrectionist promoting insurrection in the lead up to WW2. Paul Johns hun mate Carl Von Czarnecki had left the territory by then, having travelled down to the coast probably via old Tennant’s original overland route from Port Lincoln which is described in detail by Anderson. There can’t really be much doubt that my Carl and the mysteryreporter Anderson were one and the same (ala Gordon and Mat B. Hall to name just one aka). Moving forward 15 long years there wouldn’t be too many that might recall a mate from the thirties in a 1948 newspaper pic of a dead face, besides, in this case potential identifiers Beecher Webb died in ’41 and Paul Johns was by then up to his neck in fake 15th century manuscripts at his antiquerian book shop in England.

  255. john sanders on July 14, 2020 at 11:58 pm said:

    From about mid May, 1935 the Australian government became most concerned about the level of critisism being leveled on it and Catholic missions re alleged native abuse, complainants being Messrs. Webb & Anderson. Fearing interational ramifications based on the falicy, authorities endeavoured to trace the so-called Swedish Journalist by all means but, not even a description could be had and infact no one in the places described in his news stories had ever encountered him. Noel Webb’s whole family were known to be Aboriginal rights activists in Adelaide and environs including his dad who was a lawyer and highly ranked member of the Sth. Australian judiciary. Carl Von Czarnecki had supplied an Adelaide address of 29 Seafield Ave. Kingsford when he departed Alice Springs, though he moved about constantly as if he might be evading those interested in his whereabouts, his last known S.A. abode being a farm at Penong, west of Ceduna. By this time Webb had put up his law office shingle in Alice Springs and his German mate Paul Johns who stayed on after Harry Lasseter died, was thought to be guiding Gold expeditions into the Petermann ranges in search of Lasseters fabled lost reef; that is until he was gaoled for fraud and eventually getting into the stolen car business .

  256. john sanders on July 15, 2020 at 3:37 am said:

    Detective Sgt. Leane’s billion to one odds on offer to the Adelaide press regarding the sought after ‘Collins’ ROK was lapped up by them and their SM case followers knowing full well that it’s location was a mere formality. Of course had Adelaide’s grandstand bookies been consulted they would likely have called ‘London to a brick on’ that the book would be in police hands by Friday evening, in time to make the morning papers (22/7/49) which was never in doubt. After pulling off the Ron Francis stunt without hint of suspicion and being able to cover all bets the wiley Detective dropped a loaded full house with the nurses telephone number, and the accompanying adhoc letter code for the readers to nut out. No wonder that his prized informant’s details were not revealed during his lifetime for In all probabilty there were none to disclose.

  257. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on July 15, 2020 at 8:47 am said:

    The hostelries of Yekaterinburg continue to resound with mirth at developments over on the leading factually based blog.

    One thing exercising me is the likelihood of Spymaster Boxall adding the number 70 below Jess’s now famous dedication some 30 odd years after the fact and then taking the trouble to adorn those two digits with ‘micro-writing’.

    In the words of Smiley: “Now why would he do a thing like that”?

    And, perhaps more significantly, if he added the 70 and its micro-written adornment, who’s to say he didn’t add all the micro-writing that keeps popping up in letters, grapes and fezes?

    Perhaps Alf and Gordon just share a hobby?

    Or is Gordon going to suggest that the spider at the heart of the web is Prof. Karla Abbott, the most cunning fox in Moscow Centre? Maybe HE put the micro-writing in the Boxall Rubaiyat?

    We await the next installment.

  258. john sanders on July 15, 2020 at 11:59 pm said:

    19th century American bard James Russell Lowell coined the phrase ‘Onward and Upward’ in his epic poem ‘Fabled Critics’. It seems that this was then adopted by resident rhymer and fabler Clive Turner-Walker in his congratulatory offering to master yarn spinning Somerton Man critic, Cristopher Gordon Cramer for his own epic BS/TS 500,000 (5 year) milestone…Onwards and Upwards as well to Clive for the game changing Major William Jestyn Moulds fable without which input, verse 70 would be just another number, right Clive?

  259. john sanders on July 16, 2020 at 3:40 am said:

    Pete: You seem to be confusing “trolls” with we genuine ‘without fear or favour’ guardians of truth who have no qualms when it comes to their sacred duty of exposing crooks and deceivers like the Cramers of this world who prey on dupes and fawning crawlers. Such doings should merit your appreciation rather than condemnation Pete Bowes; unless of course you’d prefer the dog that didn’t bark or perhaps ‘Your Sprod that didn’t cark’…. Nick Pelling, no pal of mine, is also no body’s fool and can obviously pick up the vibes where others simply make excuses for downright dishonesty.

  260. Yeah, Dome’s right onto it, isn’t he, but we haven’t seen a contribution from him for how long, six months? And when you look up at his site header and see the Somerton Man Taman Shud by-line you’d think he’d have something to offer. But, in reality and for all his self professed researching capabilities he’s just another goose who didn’t read Strapp’s deposition.
    And neither did you.

  261. john sanders on July 16, 2020 at 8:23 am said:

    Peteb: In so much as this Great Pretender has always tried to ignor and remain resiliant to slurs on my character and intellect, I’ll beg forgiveness in knowing my tit for tat baiting (trollery?) has at times been somewhat excessive. My own profound predjudice towards Cramer is however, a little more personal, based on his recent accusations of my being a notorious supply chanel for untraceable international IT receptors saught after by purveyors of child porn and such on the so called dark web. If that therefore offends your newfound spirtit of forgiveness towards the man who made false and lurid accusations against your own sense of moral decency, then you’re a better man than I am Gunga Din and I salute you in your selfless act of turning the other cheek.

  262. Peteb: thanks for the vote of no confidence. Though I have indeed been quiet of late, I continue to research the Somerton Man etc, though my preference for silence when I have nothing to say is clearly a bit of a culture shock for some.

    Rest assured that when I do have something to say, it will be worth reading.

  263. Yeah, good man .. can’t wait.

  264. john sanders on July 16, 2020 at 11:36 am said:

    So, what was the quid pro quo re the non aggression pact between our two most vehement opponents of yesterday; we are surely able to offer possible grounds in consequence of Pb’s subsequent trollish abuse of poor Boris N., who can’t say he wasn’t so warned. Im thinking along the lines of GC’s “I swear not to divulge the northern rivers location of the Keane suitcase” for PB’s “I swear not to divulge details on your most comprehensive record of dishonesty”. Any better guesses?

  265. john sanders on July 16, 2020 at 12:13 pm said:

    Nick: Indeed, you have my concurrence on remaining tight lipped on your recent thoughts but, might I be so bold as to suggest your proposed, long awaited follow up thread on Keith Waldemar Mangnoson’s identification of ‘Carl Thompsen’, as being appropriate in the current circumstances.

  266. john sanders on July 16, 2020 at 1:02 pm said:

    Borris N: As far as suicides go, if indeed that’s what we might be contemplating. The Peter Borgmann case fits the bill for Somerton Man almost perfectly; as if the man had some prior knowledge of how he might succeed in affecting complete anonymity and thereby thwarting police investigations which were sure to follow. From the manner in which he arrived in the holiday town unknown to the locals, his inconspicuous hotel booking with an assumed identity, checking of bus routes to the beach then taking a taxi out the following day under pretext of a twighlight swim etc., etc. then by keeping to himself whilst preparing his destiny with desired dignity. Poor fellow was dieing of course but still managed to take sustinance in an effort to cover his own plight, as indeed did our own candidate before finis. Of course the 1948 Australian story would have been common knowledge by then and Peter, as a man of the world must have been familiar with the case from his travels and occupation.

  267. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on July 16, 2020 at 3:49 pm said:

    Sanders, Pete: yes, Bergman feels like he’s a copycat almost. But I’m guessing SM’s autopsy would have revealed an underlying condition. We know he had the enlarged spleen, which suggests he was very ill some time before his death. But the coroner’s report makes no mention of tumours or the like. And I assume that those would have been evident to a coroner in 1948.

    What’s striking about Bergman is the enduring nature of the mystery. In 2009 he manages to arrive in Ireland, move through the country, stay in hotels, dispose of his belongings and kill himself… all without identifying himself through a trail of data. You’d hardly think it possible. But he did. It would have been easier in 1948.

    But let’s face it: Bergman’s true identity IS known. Someone out there knows exactly who he is. But that someone hasn’t claimed him. Maybe part of a deal, granting someone’s last wish. Maybe because of some past offence. This suggests that it’s thoroughly possible that SM was Australian, was known to people, etc.

    The Neil Dovestone case is also worth looking at. “Neil” was eventually identified. He’d arrived by air from Pakistan a few days before he was found. He was eventually traced via images taken at border control. But it took a year or so. He had (somewhat estranged) family in the UK. They never made the connection between the sketches (no photographs of the body were made public) and their sibling. Neil (real name: David) died by self-administered poison (strychnine… very unpleasant) in a seemingly random location. But of course that location (from which he got the temporary name “Dovestone”) sent investigators (cops as well as part-time nutters like us lot) down a whole lot of dead ends: the 1960s Moors Murders (Brady/Hindley); a 1949 air crash (G-AHCY) with a few child-age survivors. It will probably never be known why he chose the location (he had no apparent connection to it). He arrived at a local pub and asked for directions “to the Mountain”. He got only half way up it before lying down in the twilight, very well dressed, in a position very similar to that of SM and passing away right there, on the track.

    Chances are that it was the nearest “mountain” he could think of when he set out from London. So perhaps SM did the same thing, as did Peter Bergman: they all went to the end of the line, as far as they could before running out of road?

    There’s my “theory”. FWIW.

  268. milongal on July 17, 2020 at 12:21 am said:

    Surely the problem with any idea of suicide is all the other stuff we keep talking about….
    If this was a plain and simple suicide, then all the police coverups, multiple ROKs, planting the TS – and almost anything else are superfluous.

    Surely it’s one of the greatest difficulties in the entire case – for any story we can come up with, no matter how well it fits some of the evidence, we invariably come up against some other item of evidence that is difficult to explain away. Many of the storylines people come up with need us to simultaneously believe that the participants were on the one hand pulling strings and manipulating the facts, but on the other hand genuinely confounded by related detail.
    One of the big problems with the overarching conspiracy theories is that they’re not needed. If there were no TS slip, then the whole episode would likely have been dismissed as a mundane death. So what is the purpose of the slip if it’s planted post-mortem? It brings attention and mystery to the case – which is surely undesireable? Surely blind Freddie would see that planting something so obscure and “well-concealed” is going to beg more questions than it resolves? Surely if you want to hide such a thing as a mundane suicide you would plant something a little more obvious?
    Also Leane does not strike me as wily…..

    My main conflict is I don’t entirely trust the contents of the pockets – yet I can’t see the purpose of planting anything there (surely empty pockets are easily dismissed as “the poor sod’s been robbed….possibly by an opportunist after death”.

    The other thing we should remember is that there’s a chronology to how our narrative goes that tends to over-emphasise non-existant coincidences. E.g. It initially seems odd that Jack Lyons first appears as witnessing the night before, and later finds the body…..but if you think about it, the facts appeared perfectly explicably (but their appearance was in the opposite order). Lyons discovers the body and rings it in, and later at interview mentions “….I saw some dude lying in the same location last night” – and merely shifting the angle we view the facts, something that seems so coincidental is dismissed as fairly logical – Lyons was one of few witnesses the police found because they were already engaging with him because he found the body (yet so much weight is given (admittedly in the past possibly by me, among others) to the “coincidence” that Lyons both witnessed the man on the beach AND discovered the body. And all of that leads to pointing out that just because police only ever found the 2 (3 if you count the lovers as 2) witnesses doesn’t mean that hundreds of other people didn’t walk past the man on the beach that night – and simply didn’t recall or didn’t come forward. Especially if police weren’t actively looking for witnesses early on. How many people do you pass if you ever walk along a beach in nice weather? How likely would you be to remember a specific person being in a specific location (unless the situation was somehow unusual – which is why he was memorable to the young couple; and for Lyons it was only because he found a body in the same spot less than 12 hours later).

    I still think there’s a lot in the Pruzinski story that could prove to be linked – even if it doesn’t ultimately lead to car theft rackets.

    I’m not sure what this rant was even about…..but it’s been a while since I had one.

  269. john sanders on July 17, 2020 at 2:54 am said:

    Nick: Possible access to the A1066 unread Carl Von Czarnecki file has now been affirmed for 8th August following my earlier request, noting that the relevant online classification has been changed to ‘open with exception’. Archives are going to advise further and have asked if there is anything specific I’d be looking for, which is rather sweet of them. Obviously a passport photo or two accompanied by thumb prints for identity varification would come in handy and I’ll convey that to the designated research officer.

  270. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on July 17, 2020 at 11:04 am said:

    Milongal, all… yes, the TS slip is the only link between a dead man on the beach and anything resembling a conspiracy. No slip means no ROK. No ROK means no code and no micro-writing. The connection on which the complex theories around this case are built is literally paper-thin.

    Without it we have what? An unclaimed John Doe who blew into town from god knows where, carrying a suitcase full of unremarkable stuff. He hung around for a while, had dinner then went to the beach and died.

    Just like Peter Bergmann.

    But the slip appears to be real. And as Pete has demonstrated, there are some uncomfortable feeling gaps and lags in the timeline. He suggests filling these with a conspiracy in which the SM is lured to the location as a patsy and pawn-sacrifice in a bigger, darker subterfuge at the sharp end of the Cold War.

    That’s possible, but very involved and very risky. There’s also no known precedent (which admittedly doesn’t have to mean much).

    May I propose, then, at least the outline and beginnings of an alternative scenario that brings these two radically different theories together in a way that has form: in this hypothesis, SM was the unknown man, the drifter who ended up on the beach. His body is duly removed to cold storage. Time passes – no, is allowed to pass – no one claims him.

    He is now a blank page. And the conspirators move in, in much the same way Pete sets out.

    The precedent here is Operation Mincemeat, billed as the greatest deception Operation since the Trojan horse. There, the John Doe cast adrift to wash up on continental shores with fake D-Day Landing plans was a Welsh homeless drifter whom no one would miss. Kept on ice for just such an occasion.

  271. john sanders on July 17, 2020 at 11:24 am said:

    Once in a while I go back to see if anything gives with Fred Pruzinski that we may have missed initially but nothing ever jumps out. I think that the best chance was with there having been two lads from the Hill with similar details (not exactl) who had different family backrounds. I recall that Fred who took Coffee’s bike from BH and rode it to Somerton Beach on 28th November? was charged as a 17 year old juvenile, yet my check of Richard Frederick’s death certificate would have him as an adult of 19 at the time of the offending. I also noted that his family origins were German and not Polish as one might have invisaged and that the drowning victim’s nephew Don is still big with SA Vintage car club as was Prosper Thomson and as is Peter Von Czarnecki, Carl’s lad.

  272. Anyone suggesting a mincemeat patsy would surely run the risk of being accused of dyslexia. šŸ˜‰

  273. john sanders on July 17, 2020 at 12:58 pm said:

    Redacted might like to get with the program and refrain from making his false accusory remarks about a very well respected Adelaide family that for all intents and purposes have not had as much trouble with the law as he libalously suggests. Old man John who volunteered his service in the trenches of France with the oft lauded 50th Btn. was fined 2/6 pence for not voting upon his uncelebrated return from that hell hole, then a bob or two later for purchasing beer at an unlicensed premises which hardly makes him a criminal. Likewise his son Cyril John had been sought for deserting his missus as is attested in a number of Aussie trove articles between 1926 and 1940 in a divorce action, but still volunteered for the navy and later the army in WW2. As for his aspertions to effect that a certain Mangnoson worked for Commonwealth Investigation Service I’d like to see the evidence; truth being that an operative named MAGNUSSEN was named in ASIO files as a paid surveilance operative under Big Bob Wake’s direction in 1950 or thereabouts. This clown, obviously under orders from another who has an agenda totally at odds with establishing Somerton Man’s identity or reasons for his demise should be publicly admonished by all who seek the truth.

  274. john sanders on July 17, 2020 at 2:01 pm said:

    My heart goes out to all the Welsh homeless drifters who no one misses. I must say that I’d prefer dining on one of their toasted cheese, mustard and HP sauce rare whatsits than some NKVD tricked up Glenelg (sic) Patsy any old time.

  275. Tammy Shud on July 17, 2020 at 8:44 pm said:

    ‘A Pasty for a Patsy – The True Story of the Unknown Man’

  276. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on July 17, 2020 at 9:15 pm said:

    Sanders, all… picking up your point on Bergmann’s potential knowledge of the SM case (a few posts up upthread now). I’ve had a read through all 37 pages of the Bergmann discussion over at German sleuthing/conspiracy site allmystery.de (yes, I can. And that’s as much as I intend to offer Pete by way of identification).

    What’s really interesting to note is that SM is not well known in German-speaking territories, except – clearly, from that discussion – among some hardcore nuts. Contributors over there seem to think the chances of Bergmann deliberately “referencing” SM in his MO are minimal. Also interestingly, they seem somewhat reluctant to buy into spy theories. Perhaps understandable after the End of History in 1991 (or whenever it was) and in the fly blown ends of Sligo. But why they then theorise Mr. B’s purple carrier bags might have been full of narcotics is a mystery to me.

  277. john sanders on July 18, 2020 at 6:11 am said:

    Big Tooty Team Captain Redacted’s latest shadow play of trying pin things SM related on Det. Canney’s ID witness Keith Mangoson, is really beyond the pale. For the record it was most likely something conjured up this dull witted captain’s command centre at another place, thus able to easily disassociate itself from any issues arising from possible false flag blowouts. For a start the badly faked 1948 Lapstone surveillance report compiled by the acting AG for it’s youthful MI5 designate Robert Victor Hemblys-Scales, does not include the name of any agent participatant named Mangnoson. Although page 5/3 of the farce does mention a CIS operative named Magnussen, this actually refers to one of Australia’s most celebrated behind the lines WW2 FELO field operatives Jack Magnussen. This chap’s real life mission immpossible involved by-passing Korean/Jap guards and allerting POWs in several Thai work camps, of Allied plans for their imminent salvation. He is so famously well thought if in the anals of audacious wartime exploits and to Clandestine field operatives internationally that to confuse Jack with our poor sick Keith Mangnoson shows either a knowing canivance, or else operational inepitude, both being likely norms for agent provocateur ‘SM-A305YN Crapatalk’ and his devious facilitators. PS: Jack (nmn) Magnussen 1918-2008 Adelaide, wrote modestly about his wartime exploits in Burma and Thailand Railway 1996. js

  278. john sanders on July 18, 2020 at 3:07 pm said:

    I for one am a tad perplexed that our loyal BS/TS SM correspondent from ‘down your way’ (Adelaide) Clive Turner, didn’t seem to take the initiative and record his three all revealing in depth interviews with key figure Paul Lawson; nor by logical extension for similat attemots with other known local informed sources such as Detective Len Brown, eye winesses Gordon and Olive Strapps, or death scene first attender Neil Day who seemed quite keen to oblige recent film opening night attendees with his recollections of events in 1948. Heaven forbid that a person of our Clive’s SM standing could somehow be left off the invitation list at such an all important gala event. More than likely his absence on the night came from a higher authority wherein social gatherings of such nature are deemed to be in contravention of AfIO Standing Orders on confidential liasons by agents.

  279. john sanders on July 19, 2020 at 1:08 am said:

    Whilst trolling (sic) through an old Keith Mangnoson thread it was noted from a Byron Deveson post of the same period that it was in fact C. G. Cramer, head honcho of BS/TS site who had first repirted Paul Lawson’s claims about the Russian Ballet dancer from KI, apropos an island based family having been brought by CIB to Adelaide, thereaby making a positive SM identification (twice); all this fine detail predating Clive Turner’s much more recent interviews. Sounds right, right?

    More bad news for Big Footy team captain Redacted who is by now re-emerging with a well thought out logical excuse for his Magnussen faux pas. His suggestion that our Keith could be considered a prime candidate for the 1st December, 1948 NKVD, MI5, CIA, Mossad, CIS sanctioned Fedisimov? assassination, seems to be countered by a fairly solid alibi. Namely in that a man named Keith Mangnoson had been secure sceduled patient of Fairfield mental facility at the time.

    Folks will recall that Keith Mangnoson had come forward to volunteer information to police upon his release from hospital in early 1949 and he was subsequently able to identify the SM body as that of a man known to him as a farm worker Carl Thompsen, who hailed from a cold climate (foreign?) and whom he’d met whilst a rouseabout in the Renmark district pre war. Some months later whilst in custody, related information was given to Det. Lance Bond prior to KM’s re addmission to Fairfield assylum in connection with another matter.

  280. john sanders on July 19, 2020 at 5:12 am said:

    In yet another of Clive’s claimed interviews with Paul Lawson, the latter tells of Jestyn’s reaction upon seeing the bust of the beach body and going into a near faint as if recognition had taken her by surprise. Of course some years before the old fellow had outlined precisely the same case scenario on 60 minutes so we are treated to near identical verbal and video accounts. Strangly it had also been Paul that told the inquest in ’49 that the bust was not such a great likeness of the original body due to it’s general deterioration in cold storage over time and that the press photos would be considered more reliable for identification purposes. If so, who might Jess have thought she knew, or could it have been that she was merely suffering a bout of morning sickness, precursor to the 1950 birth of her daughter Katherine…NB: Cramer or his clone had Paul add an inch to the dead man’s given height in order to get a better case for his lanky Soviet spy Fedisomov.

  281. milongal on July 20, 2020 at 12:38 am said:

    @JS: Maybe I’m playing Devil’s advocate (or maybe not), but what if J’s reaction was because she DIDN’T recognise him? What if she expected it to be someone, but was shocked that it was someone else? Especially if she knew WHY the man was dead, perhaps she was freaked out that somebody got the wrong guy…..

  282. john sanders on July 20, 2020 at 3:26 am said:

    It has been observed that one of those recently signed up to a strictly speaking non binding troll naming alliance, backed by a quid pro quo clause, showed his total disregard for compliance almost at the outset; a move nothing out of the ordinary for such types, a trait akin to honour amongst thieves. So when the senior partner had the afront to send one of his expendables into the former enemy camp under guise of friendship, sole purpose being to make ofv with a pair of SM’s most readily identifiable striped trousers, it came as no surpise ….’Two crooks both intent on spoiling the troth’ is a sure harbringer of renewed hostilities one might speculate.

  283. john sanders on July 20, 2020 at 5:08 am said:

    Part of the ‘Lasseter Golden Reef legend’ involves the namesake’s habit of keeping his favourite books close at hand when abroad; including his Holy Bible, Book of Psalms and other tomes of a more scientific nature. Some of these were found and kept in police storage for years after his strange death in the Australian interior, then passed on to his wife who had bye & bye taken up with CAGE member Green. A particular book that was not recovered, one that expedition leader Blakeley may have saught but couldn’t locate when he went through Harry’s belongings at the Billbila staging camp in mid ’30, was his pocket travel copy of the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam from which he recited when not singing Mormon hymns on his treks. How does this fit with our Somerton Man truth quest; well it is a certainty that the last white man to see Harry Lasseter alive and well, camel jockey Paul Johns, was subsequently convicted of multile car theft and deported. Some may recall this gent from recent posts; So happens he and his German rouseabout buddy Carl Von Csarnecki travelled frequently together over a long (interrupted) time span, which included turf known well to the Mangnoson men. In fact in 1937 Paul Johns bought a motorbike from Keith Mangnoson’s brother-in-law Lawrence Symens who later divorced Keith’s sister Violet Isobel and became an army bandsman in WW2. My laboured point being the very real possibility that our crooked Kraut lifted Harry’s ROK when the latter was either dead or not looking, passed it on to his pal Carl who kept it as a talking piece and years later tossed the blighter into the back of a utility truck (Cleland notes) at Glenelg. Makes as much sense as anything else we’ve heard of late, like missing matches or Strapps Stripes surely?

  284. john sanders on July 20, 2020 at 7:46 am said:

    @ milongal aka Devils A: Some folks look tgemes & variations out of habit which is OK. What the hell; Let’s find someone who can give us Kate Thomson’ s birth details which might point to whose guess better fits the known facts, ie., A trained nurse’s likely reaction to seeing the plaster bust of an as yet unidentified deceased personmor, “Crikies looks just like Quentin Thomson, think I’m gonna Faint”.

  285. milongal on July 20, 2020 at 10:13 pm said:

    I meant more along the lines of she had assumed it was a certain someone because of the photo – and was totally taken by surprise it was the wrong person (especially if she knew how he came to be there).

    I don’t want to assume too much about who and how, but suppose she was involved with some shady stuff with someone we’ll call A (could be someone we already know, likeher husband, Prosper, or could be someone we haven’t come across yet – no assumptions). She knows A has had a falling out with some person B (or at least has some reason to literally want them dead). Now suppose A has never met B in person (but J has, or at least is familiar with what they look like), and has gone off to knock them off armed only with a vague description and/or photo. When she hears about a body on the beach, and sees a post-mortem photo that in her mind looks enough like Person B. She is called by the police, and readies herself to look nonchalant when the bust of person B is shown her…..instead there is this total stranger – Person A has obviously got some unrelated person in a case of mistaken identity – and she is spooked.

    You could apply various plot twists: Perhaps she did know SM, but it still wasn’t whose bust she was expecting to see….etc

    I guess my point is that we assume she was freaked out by the bust because while it was easy enough to not care over the photo it brought home some reality to her that someone she knew was dead. Granted, everyone reacts differently to death, and perhaps she went there thinking she could hide her emotions….but I sort of find it a bit odd that her reaction was apparently quite extreme – when she had presumably seen the photo before hand and knew who she was meant to identify (or deny knowledge of). Why did the bust take her by such surprise? Was it just that the bust looked so much more real than the touched-up photo? Or was it because for whatever reason the person the bust resembled was not the person she thought she was going to identify?
    [ Naturally we also need to remember that everything about her reaction is based on it being recounted a long time later – and possibly exaggerated, embellished etc (if you’ve been watching the Ch7 mini-series on Peter Falconio you’ve likely questioned how many of the “witnesses” who are “certain” they saw Lees or Falconio at some time around the 14th July have either convinced themselves something they saw was important (and genuinely believe it); how many are just making stuff up for attention; and how many REALLY saw EXACTLY what they claim?) Similarly, the specifics of her reaction to the bust seem to come from the 1970s – some time after the fact (I think there was mention she had reacted badly to it early on, but the specifics about looking down and not wanting to look back etc I think came from Lawson in a MUCH later interview (possibly for the Littlemore Doco) – That allows a lot of time to have retold friends the story where it gradually evolves to something you categorically believe, even though it’s not really how it happened….

  286. milongal on July 20, 2020 at 10:17 pm said:

    Double checked the timeline….
    So in particular at the time she may well have thought it was Boxall….and she may have been totally freaked out that it definitely wasn’t (or another tangent – that he looked so different to what she remembered).

  287. john sanders on July 21, 2020 at 4:00 am said:

    Big Footy’s team Capt. Redacted has just posted a generally nebulous piece on government inter-departmental personell transfers necessitating different NAA file references or something. For our benefit he has put up a header page entitled MR. MAGNUSSON which reveals that it contains nothing but a file cover. Such a self explanitory notation should be all fine and dandy, but something seems amiss with the posted example as it clearly shows page 22 of 23. Simple math and logic would argue that it should be displaying 1 of 1, which surprise surprise is exactly what appears when cross checked directly back through NAA’s otherwise identical page….I’m sure there’s a simple explanation for this apparent anomally.

  288. john sanders on July 21, 2020 at 10:36 am said:

    Milongal: I’ll stick to my ‘keep things simple stupid’ scenario if you don’t mind. Ie. That a trained nurse, whether a hospital sister or bed pan aid becomes so familiar with seeing death close up that a glimpse of old Nick himself would not raise concern enough to have a fainting spell. If what Paul claims is true, then I’ll stick by my contention that something along the lines of morning sickness is more likely to have been the cause. I’ll stand corrected if we find that Kate arrived after say mid February 1950.

  289. john sanders on July 22, 2020 at 3:16 am said:

    It may yet come to pass, and I for one would not be at all surprised, that the Verse 70 ROK business with it’s cast of thousands, has absolutely nothing to do with the Somerton Man case, it being at best a sideshow brought about by crime scene locality issues such as our ROK star Sister? Thomson’s presumed residency nearby. As a possible ID witness she had come forward anonymously with her ROK/Boxall story to police on 26th July 1949 (my take), which was discounted upon her failure to reconcile any features of the SM beach body with her nominee Alf Boxall, found to be alive and well next day. The case had by then ran out of steam with no new leads to go on and was thereaby shelved. NB: Police said that they found her phone number (not so imho) in a book surrendered also anonymously which ‘when shown to her’ seemed to be similar (which it wasn’t) to one she’d had given to an aquaintance (Boxall) prior to his posting overseas years before.

    The case was inevitably shelved though re surfaced briefly adecade later when a NZ con man with knowledge gained from old papers, used it in attempt to obtain money and some custodial advantage. This, along with a mere proceedural inquest resumption in 1958 which had nothing new to offer, certainly not Jessie’s input which had come too late for inclusion (if deemed warranted) in the 1949 inquest, which both coroner and police knew would not suffice to warrant any mention at all this time around. We can blame well intentioned people like Mike Munro of Inside Story ’77, Gerry Feltus of ‘Unknown Man’ authorship and Professor Derrek Abbott of Adelaide University for bringing us to this point in time which it is fair to say, may not be all that far further advanced than when Detective Sgt. Strangway handed the case over a much junior officer A/Det Sgt Leane on 8th December, 1948….Struth was it that long ago? must seem like yesterday Paul eh mate?

  290. john sanders on July 22, 2020 at 5:11 am said:

    ‘I simply think, it is making something of nothing’, insists SM Smithsonian Barry Traish in his not altogether glowing review of the Peter Bowes histericly set ‘Bookmaker of Rabaul’ novel, dated 12 July and posted by the author who recently left in a childish huff, presumably intent on a course of self destruction or worse.

    I’m interested as to what line of investigation the novice writer’s first novel might pursue for it’s theme; I’m now seeking recommendation or otherwise from any SM deviates that might have read it, or perhaps know who has. Boris Pozhaluysta may have been lucky recipient of a signed free copy back in late 2016 from memory.

  291. Better to have a temporary huff than permanent shit on the liver, veteran, and you’re way off course with BH’s judgement .. as usual. One day you might make a contribution that’s worth the reading.
    In the meantime, I commiserate with the Voynich mob, who must be sick of the sight of all your bullshit.

  292. john sanders on July 22, 2020 at 2:04 pm said:

    Peteb: Others would have seen my play on Barry’s judgment as being the joke that it was intended to be, slightly overdone perhaps knowing your incapacity to take humour not of your own making. As for my humble contributions on discussion points re subjects other than SM related, folks usually take my offerings as they please, for I make no claims for expertise thereof or otherwise. Whats more, being an old so called veteran who took all his shots front on, I’m not one to take my bat and go home, which always seems to have been your trade and calling; but then again being a chip off the old block, one couldn’t expect anything more. You’ve always been a loser in my estimation old man, people can see you coming a mile off and take you to the cleaners as they often do…Any new thrillers in the pipeline.

  293. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on July 22, 2020 at 2:51 pm said:

    Gentlemen, please.

    For the record, I am not and never have been in the possession of aforementioned tome, fabulous as I’m sure it is. Were I to be (and the postal service here in Yekaterinburg is perhaps to blame for the fact that I’m not?), then I’d be sure to praise the work of a fellow scribe. For we toil for little other reward.

    A bit like the very endeavour we are engaged upon here. In our different ways.

    Anyway, our brief hiatus gave me occasion to review Prof Abbott’s AMA. One does rather wonder about the MacMahon thing. Was that ever (un)satisfactorily resolved?

    Apart from that enticing little tidbit, I’m rather taken with the MINCEMEAT idea. What if there was a conspiracy, but the only thing that wasn’t in it was the SM.

    Quite a satisfying inversion? Thought it might shake a few things loose. As the Dude once said “my thinking about this case has become very uptight”.

    And apparently I owed Pete a theory of my own. I now await my golden shower.

  294. Wait, you’re talking about a Somerton Man conspiracy so incredibly deep that it doesn’t even include the Somerton Man?

    That does sound like 90% of the Web coverage, it has to be said. So perhaps my thinking too has become a bit too uptight. :-/

  295. john sanders on July 22, 2020 at 11:03 pm said:

    Brien McMahon 1903-1952, Gd Democrat from Connecticut, promulgated the US Nuclear Arms act. for limiting use (good luck) in1946 and The Peace Corps. May have given immpressionable Jessie Thomson the incentive to name her first born after him in 1947, the year of introduction.

  296. milongal on July 23, 2020 at 2:33 am said:

    @JS (feels like this is old ground): Was J ever shown the Rubaiyat?
    If she was, I agree the Boxall stuff is a most peculiar thing (being a totally different version in a totally different format – Bit like someone getting confused between a 3.5″ floppy and a USB stick….).
    But I’m not sure that she was. I’m thinking someit more like:
    Plods: “We found your phone number in the back of a book, know anything about it?”
    J: “Huh, what book?”
    Plods: “Oh, it was errr…the Rubaiyat…err….of erm….”
    J: “Oh, the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam – yes I know the book well, in fact….blah blah….gave a copy to Boxall”

    Not sure there would have been any mention of format, translator, publisher or edition at that time (and the police worked fast enough to get onto Boxall the following day, so even if she found out it was a different edition (eg based on subsequent description/picture in the papers) the fuzz had already followed through that line of enquiry.

    Re conspiracies missing the main character…..While I chuckle at NP’s response, I think there’s obvious examples of that. A lot of what is discussed actually happened; some of the speculation may even have happened; but none of the connections to SM exist – so while the story is reasonably (or somewhat) factual, it all happened totally separate/unrelated to the body found on Somerton Beach – that is, it’s not the conspiracy itself that is necessarily wrong, it’s the leap to link SM into it.

  297. john sanders on July 23, 2020 at 8:42 am said:

    The manner in which a no nonsense, competent detective like Canney would have approached a witness of unknown quantity like Jess would have involved coming to the point straight off, gaining the initiative thereby and with a view to being in control of the interview, especially she having advantage of being on her own turf. That must have included producing the book or a close a copy and testing her reaction both visibly and verbally. He would have only needed to ask clarifying questions to obtain what he needed to know and let it rest there for the time being at least. We know it went down like this because the Newspapers confirmed as much that same day, along with the bust viewing. That seems hunky dory, but it does not explain how she made no attempt to distinguish between the W & T pocket version and the ‘Jestyn 70’ hardcover unless Alf Boxall also had a Courage & Friendship as some suggest. NB: My belief that Jess made the initial contact with police and not the long held alternative view, ie. phone trace etc., is not important in this synopsis.

  298. john sanders on July 23, 2020 at 12:23 pm said:

    Not to wonder that Paul Lawson showed a degree of consternation when on camera and a confronting interview with self assured old hand Stuart Littlemore’s somewhat unanticipated interrogatory style. Leading questions such as whether anyone who viewed his work had recognised it as being a likeness to some one known to them might well have placed him in a professional bind hence his defiant stance. It was Lawson’s initial foray into forensic reproduction of that kind and he had suggested at the time in 1949, that the the working conditions confronting him, particularly that of his subject were far from ideal. The deceased sitter SM was not in such great shape for projecting a good likeness of it’s former self as should have been expected and this has been mentioned frequently over the years. Paul points out the obvious truth that by viewing his work, people were less inclined to make comparisions, than if they viewed the original body or indeed photographs taken on the slab. I thought, in light of such difficulties, his presentation before the Insider cameras in 1977 was all that may have been expected. I feel that some latter day scrutineers are seeing something in the man’s first national television appearance that is perfectly reasonable all up, and jaundiced square eyes are quite out of order therefore.

  299. milongal on July 23, 2020 at 11:40 pm said:

    There’ s parts of the interview (including in transcripts that didn’t make it to production – I think that particular question is asked at least twice or thrice) where Lawson does seem to get evasive “you’re on tender ground”.
    Naturally he may not have known what he was allowed to talk about and what he wasn’t – and (as many people tend to) made assumptions about the sensitivity of stuff he knew (stuff that could easily be quite innocuous). TBH, my reading of that particular interaction with Littlemore was more that Lawson didn’t want to be the source of that information – remember most of the major players were still alive then, you don’t really want to be publicly naming someone you thought may have known more – even if that is just confirming what people already thought. (As I think you’re saying) His caginess isn’t some cover-up – it’s an attempt not to get involved in the story (beyond his involvement with creating the bust). It’s not for him to speculate who might or might not have known the deceased – and he finds it hard to dismiss Littlemore’s attempts to get him to imply something.

  300. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on July 24, 2020 at 9:18 am said:

    Evasive, yes. Cagey, yes. Anyone ‘taking the fifth’ looks like that at first sight. But it’s a legitimate response. It’s a live investigation at that point, so it might just point to Lawson’s uncertainty about what he can say without prejudging an enquiry. After all, he’s not a cop. But he’s smart enough to spot a leading question from his interrogator.

    That could be tender enough ground for him.

  301. john sanders on July 24, 2020 at 11:50 am said:

    It was a live investigation (still is) on the occasions when Paul implored folks to consider that his bust was not well suited to making an identification being based on the 3D replication. Especially so when compared with the admittedly much better likeness portrayed in the flat image original Duham photograph provided to the press for circulation. I have no problems with milongal’s alternate explanation for Paul’s retiscence before the cameras during the Littlmore interview. So perhaps if we might agree in principle to combine the two theories we’ll likely be a good deal close to the mark; should that satisfy the punters not withstanding.

  302. john sanders on July 24, 2020 at 1:00 pm said:

    Not desirous of being in any way critial of a man’s pride in his work, the SM bust to my layman’s critical analysis, more resembles those marble busts reminiscent of cherished Roman emporers which we’re all familiar with; baring of course the one with a saddle nose (Heaven forbid) who was also carelessly dropped on his head as a babe, than the dead man found on Somerton Beach. Why the powers that be didn’t get an artist to splash a bit of colour on Paul’s creation to give it a human face with a bit of character and charm one can only wonder, the effect might just then have resembled something more akin to real life, thus being not so inclined to give it’s non admirers fainting spells as was experienced by Sister Thomson.

  303. john sanders on July 25, 2020 at 12:13 am said:

    Whilst @milongal and I do not always agree on many aspects of this case, his recent comment on Richard Frederick Arthur Pruszinski’s short life is fortunately not one of those, my belief being as milongal does that there must surely have been more information on the Pruszinski angle that we had somehow overlooked. First and foremost, as I have recently proposed, the young man from Broken Hill that drowned in ’53, was in my opinion, most likely not to have been identical with his near namesake the young bike thief who rode to Adelaide with an older man’s extra kit two or three days before both it and it’s apparent intended recipient were found on Somerton beach SA.

    For starters, and sorry for the repetition, the thief who later dumped his stolen bike and was caught by police in an also stolen car at Nooralunga? some distance along the coast on 29th November ’48, was a 17 year old lout named Frederick William Pruszinski born in 1931, as opposed to well regarded BH denizen, Richard Frederick Arthur Pruszinski, born 1929 was a fine young man on the threshold of a successful life holding down permanant skilled employment with Broken Hill’s biggest company BHP. Surely based on just those couple of inconsistancies, we must agree that the only commonality evident is in their surname which seems to have been almost akin to Smith & Jones in BH circa. 1948.

    There can’t really be much doubt that the teenagager stuffed up the drop off instructions and/or failed to make connection with the intended recipient, possibly by mistaking something as simple as not knowing one day from another. In the bag was a selection of clothing including a gent’s three piece suit, overcoat and a rifle (stock) and woollen socks, the one item of apparel missing from the case left an the Adelaide station ah ah ah refreshm..er (Brown) cloak room according to informed police sources. Common sense tells us that the two events culminating in SM’s demise at the same location is too much of a coincidence to consider any other alternatives and whilst it appears most unlikely that we are ever going to help clear poor Richard Pruszinski from involvement, we should at the very least give the man a pass based on what we perceive to be the true facts.

    It might be noted that a man of a similar age and physical description, who was also a known fugitive and former accomplice to a convicted auto thief, had been a multi linual itinerant farm worker all throughout Sth. Australia before WW2. His criminal cohort was known to carry motor vehicle alteration tools in his belonging, was holder of a motor cycle licence from Port Pirie and was described as being a dangerous gun nut. Although the authorities had him out of the country in late 1948, they had no firm evidence of it and his immediate family were at that time living in Adelaide. It might also be worth considering that his wife was known to have spent time as a child in Broken Hill, after returning with her preacher father and family from Canada and Great Britain; it being likely that her widowed mother maintained ties there long after. Her name was of course Cristabel Davis and her missing German born legal husband Henry Wilhelm E. Carl Von Czarnecki.

  304. john sanders on July 25, 2020 at 3:11 am said:

    Two feckless mocking birds await their master’s call;
    One called Peter, the other named Paul.
    Gordon their master, with his lies and pomp and gall;
    So its pay to play Peter, you’re good to stay Paul.

  305. john sanders on July 27, 2020 at 3:44 am said:

    What really should make more sense to Peteb is, that his Lica Delprat was the nonpracising widow of Dr. Milo Sprod who for some years until 1934, shared a consulting surgery at 25 Jetty Rd. Glenelg. It was not located next door or even close to the Freeman pharmacy at 24a which was actually next door to a market on one side and a rough pub on t’other, not at all suitable for secure street parking. MI5 office boy Hamblys-Scales was certainly not Lica’s nephew, despite Bowes ceaseless contrary claims, and so long as he keeps telling fibs, I’ll do my utmost to make sure he gets to eat them. Peteb’s latest crack at screenwriting, ‘end of the tether’ for many a failed short story scribe, has a romantisised Tamam Shud fantasy as it’s morbid theme as …., critiqued by no nonsense Clive Walker? as being “…a rather melodramitic thesis….”.

  306. Dunno what your problem is, dusty, everything looks kosher to me.

  307. john sanders on July 27, 2020 at 11:56 am said:

    A little teaser for the Adelaide ‘Brill’ small gauge rail enthusists like Gerry’s mate Tiny for instance. From my understanding, be it far from any degree of certainty, part time ticket officer Townsend worked the double star booth, commencing his shift at 6.00am and sold tickets for both the Henley Beach terminal line and the north line to very similar sounding Hamley Bridge which was also a terminal and major change station for wider gauge destinations further afield such as Clare. Whilst the frequent shorter Henley beach services commenced outward runs from around 6.30 am., the latter left Adelaide on it’s first run of two daily excursions around 6.15a.m. I’m wondering whether perhaps our man may have inadvertently been sold the wrong ticket and did not realise the young student’s blunder until he attempted to board the train for Hamley Bridge, his intended destination. By then it may have been too late to change tickets, resulting in SM having to check his baggage and delay until the afternoon service. This could have led to his decision to bide his time with a relaxing Beach layover rather than wait hours at the station with nothing to do. It could explain the unused ticket found in his brown herring bone Staminas, but not his shortage of money when found. I guess it’s still not too late for a competent Adelaide based sleuth like Clive, to ask young Neil Day the strapper about having seen anybody loitering around X marks the spot early next morning.

  308. Peter Bowes on July 27, 2020 at 1:27 pm said:

    John Sanders: No sweat bro, black lives matter, say what my man, we gotta stick to the creed right?

  309. milongal on July 28, 2020 at 12:44 am said:

    @JS: Google it (and limit results to this site)…..I vaguely remember discussing Henley Beach/Hamley Bridge stuff on here some time ago…..
    I think at the time there was some interest in a Mangnoson or Thomson connection to Alma (and we might have een looked into connections beyond Gawler/Hamley Bridge and back toward the Riverland (in particular Morgan).

    The question there, then, is whether the ticketing was split into metro and regional, or whether that sort of a confusion is likely to happen….

  310. john sanders on July 28, 2020 at 3:26 am said:

    John Ruffles, in his investigation notes for ‘Inside Story’, mentioned that Jack Lyons spoke of a witness at the inquest suggesting that the man on the beach was likely a native of a middle European country like Hungary Czechoslovakia or Poland? To extrapolate that, if we go through the list of people who saw SM’s features, we really have only two likely contenders apart from police, they being John Cleland who is automatically excluded by his ‘Britisher’ comment; leaving us with our pathologist Dwyer. An obvious choice in any case due to him being the expert conducting the autopsy and who was likely familiar with with Euro/Slav features from WW2 field experience. In his testimony he said something about SM’s looks being consistent with that of an ‘educated’ man….Ruffles notes also suggest thatt that it was the pathologist who found the Tamam Shud slip in April ’49 though he doesn’t elaborate…Perhaps Peteb might ask his pal from Bondi if that be the case.

  311. john sanders on July 28, 2020 at 5:27 am said:

    Peteb: Don’t get so excited by the frequency of my visits, it’s not as if I’m there in person, merely my auto site activity alert system telling my pick up that someone is making extended contact eg. Getting a line on your latest pseudo histerical fiction.

  312. milongal on July 28, 2020 at 10:23 pm said:

    Czarnecki is certainly interesting (I’ll have to revisit much of what you’ve dug there – because I skimmed over a lot of it)….his wife appears on electoral rolls in both WA and SA through the 1930s, however with him and his swag of names it’s difficult to work out exactly which details are his. As far as I can tell his “real” name is Henry, but he prefers Carl (it seems quite common that people from Europe from earlier times favour one of their secondary names over their given names). Every ad he places lists him as Carl (or Christabel as Mrs Carl), yet the granting and revocation of his naturalisation certificate have him “Henry William Emil Carl”….(his marriage announcement lists him as “H Carl von Czarnecki”)

    But I find it hard to think it could be him because he wasn’t claimed (despite the fact there’s articles about his son Peter being invited to a dance in Brighton in 1953 (suggesting they were local).
    At the same time he himself seems to drop off the radar – although Mrs C von Czarnecki is listed in several updates as collecting for Crippled Children in Glenelg around 1954….

    There seems to be a lot of information on him on Ancestry (but I’m not a member) – but I assume that’s where you’ve picked up a lot of your info…

    The Lasseter book seems not to have an online copy (as best I can tell), but trove lists it as available in at least 4 libraries (Alice Springs NT, National Library ACT, State Library Vic, State Library SA)….might be worth checking local libraries too

  313. john sanders on July 29, 2020 at 4:03 am said:

    Peteb: Not Flt. Lt. Bowes’ fault, that as a desk pilot he only got to fly his borrowed Mustang over the nip free skies of Papua a few times in late 44 to keep his flight rating, therby missing out on action and resultant ‘scab scar & bar’ awards. So in using that ‘chip off the old block’ phrasiology to describe Curley’s offspring Leigh when I should have been demonising his pansy ineffectual whelp perse , I deserve a big smack…When it comes to Marjorie and uncle ‘Gooney Bird’ Colin Bowes, I challenge you to produce evidence of alleged slurs on either or stand corrected in purpetuity as a compulsive fibber.

  314. john sanders on July 29, 2020 at 7:46 am said:

    milongal: I’ve never been a member of any of those swanky pay to play ancestral search deals either, making do with ‘trap’ alternaves which is as good as it gets for this old timer. If you go back through my earier related posts, you’ll understand why the beach body was unlikely to be claimed, at least not publicly. But don’t go letting the cat out of the bag just yet; you me and the Ruskie of C. Berg being likely the only people ever heard of a feller named Henry Wilhelm (sic) Emil Carl Von Czarnecki.

  315. john sanders on July 29, 2020 at 8:05 am said:

    Looks like probably no deal on Carl Von Czarnecki, having just seen his pic in the P. A. Scherer book courtessy of good folk at Lasseteria blog..An old man smoking a cigar with all the scars and discolouration from his old skin disease

  316. john sanders: surely you understand by now that a mere photograph of a person is no real hindrance to a proper conspiracy theory? Why, in many ways the photo’s very existence proves the existence of an international cabal covering up the real conspiracy by fabricating and disseminating such fake photos…

    Or so I read somewhere.

  317. john sanders on July 29, 2020 at 1:42 pm said:

    Nick: Don’t dispare, I jumped the gun and we’re still there, as you must be aware. This new photograph of Carl taken in 1939 for the folks back home and looking like death warmed up, surely without intent, is something to behold when you put all those dambed nuances together but I’m still stunned nonetheless.

  318. john sanders on July 29, 2020 at 2:23 pm said:

    Why oh why would NAA put an ‘exception’ caviat on a 1945 file, already done to death by Bill Simpson’s national security mob and a reluctant Immigration Dept. to declare our main man a renegade in two related open files. Doesn’t make a lick of sense. Let’s wait and see what my 660,000 hard earned Vn. Dong comes up with, though US military detention photos and fingerprints are unlikely to be part of the deal.

  319. john sanders on July 29, 2020 at 11:21 pm said:

    The chap that did the photo makeover was a true professional, a good man with graphics with a punk flare, someone like Peter Von Czarnecki no doubt. A grainy though clear mono chrome full figure portrait of an older looking man in casual attire with a number of writing instrument protruding from his breast pocket, an adhoc fob chain and a distinctive fairground photo badge hanging below the neck depicting a toddler on all fours posing for the camera. Subject is standing in front of a large dark metal ‘dungeon’ door, his head almost to the level of it’s topmost hinge and a standard unadorbed brick wall wing is set to the right. The man’s face has been treated to a pair of glasses of seventies styling as is his quasi GI belt buckle, and a large unlit Havana in his right hand, all accessories including the pens being after factory inclusions in my opinion. Carl Czarnacki presents as being almost bald with a silver fuzz which gives the viewer a good ckear view of his right inner ear, which is a pleasure to behold. NB: Later in ’44 he was said to have brown hair greying.

    The photo must have been one provided to Lutheran pastor Philipp Scherer of Tanunda, the Lasseter……author, by young Peter V Cz or his mum Christabel, a Lutheran herself in the mid nineties and it would most assuredly have served to reinforce the family’s long held secret that their father and husband had lived well beyond the age of 34 which was supposed to have been when he was last heard of in pre war Australia. Of course it would also reinforce that same position to any governmental types sniffing around, as is their wont, long after Carl had been declared a renegade on 6th November, 1948. It might be safe to assume that the photo came with one of the early intercepted letters to the family from Germany at about the time war was declared, those that told of his love for young Peter-boy, current state of health, there being residual dermatitus evident on the inner right forearm and of him being able to enjoying luxuries like cigars under th 3rd Reisch.

    At first bluff, when confronted with said photo and before I started to exprapolate the various peculiar nuances, I gave some thought to the NAA file information attesting to Australian government interest in the subject from very early days, following his departure from Perth in early 1939. Most of the indepth inquiries were handled by W.A. at behest of Canberra but also, and more particularly S.A. Special Branch which was headed up by none other than old Harry Strangway, first detective at the death scene in 1948. His office at Finsbury was used to interview an employee Mrs. Christabel Von Czarnecki regarding her foreign links and her loyalties to King and country in 1943. That telling interview is included in the NAA file and there was a follow-up which is missing. One might reasonably put forward the notion that the photo alterations may have been the work of investigators in possession of their own copy. After all the chief of Sth. Australian censorship office was also a man with connection to the SM case himself. That person being our old Coronor (B/Colonel) Thomas Cleland. I’d persobally go with the family connection in Peter V Cz., a former graphic artist with Adelaide Advertiser, and having access to old files as the more logical choice, motive being purely deception, family pride and defence of his father’s nazi past.

  320. john sanders on July 30, 2020 at 7:20 am said:

    milongal: My inadequacies are showing; having only picked up stuff on Carl’s missus from SA and WA rural ads. I know she had been at Clare/Adelaide Hospitals pre war and so considered it likely that she, as a single mother, returned to nursing after1945. I was not able to gain access to SCCH records for possible employment there, but did pick up on your note that she had charitable links to it. When her son Peter was a babe, he was in bad physical shape and it caused some concern amongst the German community in Perth; but what ever the ailment, he appears to have grown out of it, though Interesting possibilties nonetheless.

  321. john sanders on July 31, 2020 at 5:58 am said:

    Having been in touch with a S.A. church library, I was advised that they have a copy of a L&TGRs which includes detail on the life & times of Carl Von Czarnecki and photos including the one I have. They are only able to provide six scans due to copyright restrictions and while awaiting arrival, I’ll try my best to obtain the full publication elswhere. Perhaps Peteb and other respected researchers might help.

  322. john sanders on July 31, 2020 at 11:51 pm said:

    The scans now in my possession include a number of photographs of subject Carl Von Czarnecki from 1910 to 1940 plus others perportedly from rural Canada in cowboy regalia and one from S.A. in later years. Included is a part auto bio which amongst other things outlines details of his childhood as an orphan living outside Frankfurt. Later his life as a merchant seaman, his deserting at Port Pirie in 1927 and his early years working on farms in the Care district. Nothing read thus far appears to be a departure of what I already know, but I’m still short on continuity beyond the time following Carl’s hook up with Paul Johns at Clare hospital. Some inset notes refer to his sister’s death around the time he returhed to live in Clare in 1973 and my calculations seem to date the rather professional writing style to the early ’80s. While admittedly things don’t look so good for a tie in with our SM beach body, I’ll first need to study the remaining pages of the transcript before I can make judgement on it’s authenticity. There are things about the childhood photos that really do compare well with SM on the mortuary slab, and it can be seen that they are most likely the same person represented in the adult pics from the ear shapes. My major concern is how Carl could have gotten back to Australia, having been declared a renegade in perpetuity at ministerial level in 1948, there being nothing in his extensive files to suggest the p.n.g status having bern revoked; Also why arn’t there any records in his family’s papers or in S.A. newspapers or the like reporting his passing?.

  323. milongal on August 3, 2020 at 12:39 am said:

    behind the ancestry paywall there are records on the electoral role from the 1970/1980 with Henry Carl von Czarnecki (William and Emil seem to have disappeared from the name)….
    That would suggest that (if it’s him) he is once again a citizen (pretty sure he wouldn’t be on the electoral roll otherwise)….

    I was just looking through the NAA files on him…..it seems his family left to visit him in Germany in ’51 – and presumably bring him back (he seems not to have returned after the war) and the government cancelled landing permits for all of them.
    Either way, it sounds like he was alive and well in the 1950s.

    I wonder what’s in the 3rd file….

  324. john sanders on August 3, 2020 at 7:13 am said:

    milongal: Yes, I did cover the W.A. electrol roll entries a month back, giving some explanation on the name omissions; I also covered the family’s non visit to fetch Carl post 1948 and bring him home under cover of his pre war friend Otto Meier’s sponsorship. I Have reported extensively on various contents of the two open NAA files and have another on order, though I’m not hopeful that it will justify my outlay to date.

  325. john sanders on August 3, 2020 at 12:10 pm said:

    ” THAT CIGARETTE HAD NOT BEEN LIT ! “, said Jack Bain Lyons in a most emphatic, decisive and clearly spoken final analysis to his testimony before the inquest. That was his own accurate assessment based on what he saw before him when he examined the beach body, a considerable time before Constable Moss arrived at tge beach and who later provided a contrary view of events at the same hearing. So why was the policman’s late at the scene opinion given more weight in Coroner Thomas Cleland’s own evidentiary considerations?. Had the old digger’s expertise in the study of death scenes, gained from his experience as a corpsman in the trenches of France been accepted, the whole case scenario of cigarettes and matches would not have created the ongoing conundrum as it has ever since… I point of course to disussions taking place now on BS/TS between friends, which is actually quite a relief in it’s departure from usual duscussions of spys and hidden messages within the ROK cipher etc.

  326. Tamara Bunke on August 3, 2020 at 2:18 pm said:

    Gordon, Pete & co. may have stumbled upon something interesting and dismissed it out of hand. The awkward grammar (at least in Feltus) around the jockey shorts and singlet does rather suggest our man may have packed (his pockets) for an overnight stay.

    As far as I recall, there’s no such confusion in the inquest inventory, so I can see why Gordon dismisses it out of hand. If nothing else, it does make one wonder what other inaccuracies have crept in due to shoddy transcription, copy-editing, etc. over the years.

  327. Tamara Bunke: my opinion has long been that the suitcase had been packed for a short (2-3 day) stay in a shabby Adelaide hotel, by someone who had a specific job to do in town that could not be done in a single day.

    The item that bothers the hell out of me is the white tie. If we knew why he had a white tie, probably half the cold case would open up to us.

  328. Tamara Bunke on August 3, 2020 at 9:01 pm said:

    Is it clear what kind of tie it was? A necktie or a bow tie?

  329. milongal on August 3, 2020 at 10:26 pm said:

    surely less than half NP?

  330. milongal on August 3, 2020 at 10:47 pm said:

    @JS: I’m catching up with some of what you’ve speculated earlier – but I think there’s too much to explain away. While the authorities argued over de-naturalizing bim (through the mid 40s) he was not in the country, and even back then I think crossing the border when you’re being assessed like that would trigger a lot of alarm bells. I don’t think he was in the country when his naturalization was cancelled (although the cancellation along with the change of name etc does make the electoral roll record marginally more interesting – but it is also 20-30 years laster and things change….).

    I can’t find a second naturalisation attempt from him (there is a W Czarnecki that appears in a trove search around 1967, but I don’t think it’s naturalisation, I think it’s a Public Service appointment….and I think that might be the totally unrelated Witold Czarnecki) – so it would be interesting to know how someone came to be on the electoral role with that name (or could this be another relative – eg Peter’s kid ).

    I am interested to see if you dig anything further up, but I’m increasingly convinced it wasn’t him.

  331. john sanders on August 3, 2020 at 11:06 pm said:

    Who was the more credidable with the cigarette evidebce?, Moss (mostly smoked) or Lyons (unlit); Well in my opinion the latter for all reasons given over many similar posts (never commented upon), and he was an honest respected pillar of the community, president of the diamond traders assoc. and a local warden. As for the constable, he was for reasons not given, re posted following the inquest to Hindley Beach and put on general duties, a stark departure to his having been OIC of Brighton previously. He comes up in newspapers post ’48 eg., puting out grass fires, guiding stray ducks and saving a floating refrigerator in the ’53 storm during which he had to be rescued, age retiring in 1955 and passing in the sixties from memory..

  332. john sanders on August 4, 2020 at 3:21 am said:

    Tamara Bunke: Gordon, Pete & Co. likely used Feltus’ gaff to get a giggle at his expense, taking the seemed inclusion of underwear seemingly found in the dead man’s pockets, then one of the jokers adding ‘slightly soiled’ to get the last laugh. Of course none of this was likely true and in fact the phrasiology came from John Cleland’s ‘some slightly soiled’ description of unspecified garments in the Keane suitcase. There you go then comrade take your pick; and by the way, Cuba Libre & Che Geuvera ola.

  333. Tamara Bunke: definitely a normal tie, not a bow tie. I discussed one theory in 2014:
    https://ciphermysteries.com/2014/10/30/white-tie-get-killed

  334. Milongal: the lack of socks is a problem, but that’s actually such a big problem that it ceases to be a suitcase packing problem and becomes a where did the socks go problem. šŸ™‚

  335. john sanders on August 4, 2020 at 7:58 am said:

    In ’46 our Carl the ex nazi, as Karl Czarnecki (sans Von) the Balt was registered as a persecuted person (ancestry free) and may well have taken up the offer of a single man quick resettlement in Canada is my best bet. From that he would have gotten hold of Dominion papers with possible asistance of his Canadian wife’s family; and shrewd man that he was, eventually made his way legally into Australia. I could imagine that the WA electoral rolls were set up by associates to ensure a smooth transfer back his old pre war identity on arrival. That’s my guess but there is absolutely no record of his death in Australia under Von Czarnecki, so the ruse, if so, was likely not put into effect. We’ll see what the NAA gives us to determine if there’s any point in follow up.

  336. Tamara Bunke on August 4, 2020 at 11:51 am said:

    Nick, I agree with Gordon that the tie isn’t necessarily white. The monochrome photo showing the T (?) Keane script is rendered with very high contrast that isn’t helpful in determining a shade. The Littlemore interview film (episode 1/3 on Youtube) renders it more like an off-white or very light fawn. The film does have a yellowish cast though.

    Still, I’d say it’s definitely not the pearly white of the monochrome photo.

  337. Tamara Bunke: it’s tricky, the colour is somewhere between white and off-white, which might just have been from being washed a lot (e.g. a work tie?), and the Littlemore documentary was decades later.

    But who, apart from American gangsters and French Nazi sympathisers, wore a white tie for work? :-p

  338. john sanders on August 4, 2020 at 1:07 pm said:

    Nick: Plenty of disgruntled German Nazi sympathers in those rural enclaves north of Adelaide for instance. I’m wondering if you ever got a fix on a contributor back in 2013 @ T Anderson who had some interesting things to say, or is that sort of information deemed not for general disclosure; perhaps a hint such as the city of cathederals or murder capital of Australia would suffice.

  339. milongal on August 4, 2020 at 10:46 pm said:

    @JS: Rereading an old post of yours (actually, not that old 2/06/20 in the thread above) you mention the possibility that the 1970’s von Czarnecki was a relative (e.g. possibly a child to Peter from teenage years)….did you get anywhere with that?

    I find it hard to resolve it to the original Carl not only because the names aren’t 100% the same, but because I can’t find trace of a re-naturalisation….

    I do know someone who might have Ancestry access, so next time I’m speaking to them I might see if we can find out any more about the von Czarnecki’s on there

  340. john sanders on August 5, 2020 at 3:04 pm said:

    mikongal: My understanding is that the ‘Von’ is unique to one family that settled on a large rural estate near Frankfurt, the patriarch Emil, being Carl’s grandfather who was Polish and took the title as part of his game keeping duties. So the only blood relatives these days are derived from the issue of Peter and his wife Naomi, all of whom were born in Sth Australia, unless Carl fathered children during his absence in the immediate post war years. His own father died in 1915 in WW1 and his only sibling was a younger sister, they being raised by their maternal granma so no chance for any offshoot Von Czarnecki relatives. Can’t see any help being derived from more genialogy research, suggest waiting for the other NAA file to open and to see if we can’t obtain the rest of his auto-bio.

  341. john sanders on August 5, 2020 at 11:44 pm said:

    In mid 1933 the Australian government through it’s Dept. for the Interior was very concerned about the activities of a shadowy Norwegian journalist using the byline T. Anderson who had been making derogitory comments in newspapers, local and throughout Europe on what he had observed on the treatment of N.T. Aborigines during his seven years in Australia. Investigations to track him down were very extensive but unsuccessful and nothing more was heard from him; although an accomplice, a young Adelaide lawyer cum gold miner named Barr, working out of Alice Springs/Tenant Creek unashamedly identified himself thriugh his own similar criticism in the press…Of course none of the above may mean a hill of beans with regard to Somerton Man and connections to my Carl Czarnecki as things seem to be headed, suffice to say that on his arrival in Australia in 1927, he posed as being Norwegian and his subsequent movements throughout the country mirrored those outlined by T. Anderson in his writings. Needless to say, when Carl returned to the fatherland in 1939 he secured work with its Ministry of Informatio as a reporter and translator….. PS. The lawyer Beecham Noel Barr, as a brave Infantry warrant officer was killed in action during service with 1/2nd Infantry Battalion in Greece in 1941 WW2 Lest We Forget.

  342. john sanders on August 6, 2020 at 4:12 am said:

    ….Beecher Noel Webb, (not Barr) for those interested. In the mid 30s he was listed as being co lease holder in a gold mining venture with Carl’s nazi mate Paul Johns and a George Lee at Tennant Creek N.T. Later when Johns was gaoled for cheque offences in Alice Springs, the lawyer representing the defrauded party was none other than PJ’s partner B.N. Webb. PS. Another twist for those into blasts from the past, is that Beecher and his dad Mr. Justice Noel Webb of S.A. were apparently well connected to ‘black lives matter’ anthropologist Donald Thompson the WW2 Intelligence operative, N.T. Special Recon Unit chief and suspected spy of course.

  343. john sanders on August 7, 2020 at 6:25 am said:

    Carl was confirmed to have sailed from Femantle (Perth) aboard SS Neckar bound for Antwerp enroute to Germany on 22/2/39 according to a Special Branch report on his NAA file. In Carl’s 1500 word epistle date lined Frankfurt 3/5/39 to one of his former employers Mr. Cheetham of Kumminin WA, he claims that the sea journey via Durban, Las Palmas and Dunkirk took a mere 38 days, arriving at destination on 1st April with onward rail and river transport to his village of a few more days perhaps. My enquiries for to-day’s sail times suggest closer to 50 days for the 11,500 sea mile trip alone, so 80 years back that old tub Neckar must have been shovelling on the coal. The question I’m asking, travel time inconsistencies aside; why does a retiring bumkin like Carl, five minutes after reaching his sister Dora’s house, suddenly go to press, going on about all the great things he’s experienced since his arrival in Germany eg. productive farms, autobahns and industrial superiority as well as some lower key nazi propaganda etc. This all to a fellow who according to police, had minimal contact with his former field hand, who’s work showed lack of experience and general inefficiency. Carl’s wife claims that she sent him home for treatment after he was given a year to live by a Perth skin specialist,
    now we have him at home six weeks thereafter describing in a letter to his ex boss, what a fine old time he’s been having of late with beer & skittles, cigars and jaunty fraufluffers to occupy all his free time. Something’s seems not quite right out there in which case we should not be overly hasty in closing the book on Carl just yet.

  344. john sanders on August 7, 2020 at 1:46 pm said:

    Erna Teske who saw what was coming and returned to Germany not long after Carl Von Czarnecki’s mercy dash in 1939, had been the honoury consul in Perth and was a dedicated Nazi from the mid thirties, always signing off her correspondence with ‘Heil Hitler’. When Carl’s young son Peter was sick in 1938 she took his wife Christabel and the child in and provided for them until they were able to get a birth on MV Duntroon and get back to better care in Adelaide with Mrs. Davis Snr. There can’t be any doubting that Chris had been indoctrinated by that time and when she was later interrogated as to her loyalties to both husband and country by Harry Strangway’s Special Branch 2IC Det. Trezona, she passed with flying colours. At the time (1943) she was working at Finsbury munitions plant and prior to that the kindred Salisbury facility under her maiden name Davis, most likely at the factory first aid station. Later she returned to nursing at her pre war employment with Royal Adelaide Hospital where she was at the end of hostilities in 1945. It has been reported that she went to Germany with her son in 1951 to fetch Carl home after he was declared a renegade in 1948, but that may have been supposition from what one reads into the confused back and forth diplomatic dialogue. Erna Teske and husband Paul, who had spent most of the war interned at Tatura Vic. seemed to have had no problems getting back to Perth in 1950. One might well ask the question, what measures were put in place to prevent Carl from doing likewise, and why, or did he have plans in place to thwart them. If so how did he achieve the desired outcome, when and what then became of him?….

  345. john sanders on August 8, 2020 at 6:48 am said:

    Way back in 2017, I put forward Keith Mangnoson’s brother Cyril John as a person of interest in the case and some discussion followed which did reveal some tid bits e.g. his bigamous marriage with a name change and a link back to one of the Mang. twins as well as deceptive dates and countries of birth over three service inlistment periods. Misca’s pay to play search engine, finally let it be known that a man with the necessary credentials was cremated at Springvale Vic. cemetery on 6/2/85, seemingly letting him off the hook. Only thing that worried me then was Cyril’s unlikely death place Sqam, Vic. and whilst I queried this with MM, giving her a likely Latin translation, I got no reply and haven’t had a civil word with her since then. But I never forgot; So just now whilst re hashing his good wife Grace’s family on MH, to my surpise Cyril John came up as being born in sone rotten burrough of Kent UK, an improvement on his last effort Capetown SA , but still a long hike from his birth town of Broken Hill, NSW…This should not be considered ‘well spotted’ or anything of the kind, just another bit of information which we may add to the pot.. ps: Cyril was born a C of E died as soul property of Uniting Church whilst Grace Olga nee McAlpine (1908) was similarly cremated in ’76 with Presbyterian rites.

  346. john sanders on August 9, 2020 at 5:36 am said:

    Happy 102nd birthday wishes to SM bust maker Paul Lawson, with the usual thanks to Ashley, Andrea and staff of S.A. (Adelaide) museum who are always pleased to pass on the many congratulatory sentiments; in lieu of direct contact which is prefered due to Pauls faltering senses eg. deafness and lucidity such as one might reasonably expect for a not so sprightly man of 102….Anyone wanting to get a good honest appraisal of his 1949 bust making process, as commissioned by Adelaide police, along with some not so well known side issues, I’d suggest going to the University of Adelaide related posting of 18/5/18 in which a realistic account of the mold casting process and other issues are clearly laid out. This as opposed to the travesty posted on TS/BS, that in keeping with all expectations borders on the ridiculous, including selected snipets of deaf Paul’s most recent alleged phone call to old chum Gordon, giving his own version of what transpired seventy two years ago. This of course included a centenarian’s in depth views of sideshow issues to which he had somehow become privy whilst busily engaged in his assigned work. No surprises when Paul declared full concurrence with the Gordon Cramer self serving and long held spy conspiracy drill with it’s usual bevy of prime suspects, Alf Boxall, nurse Harkness and accomplice W. Jestyn Moulds OBE.

  347. peteb on August 9, 2020 at 7:19 am said:

    ā€˜When you meet someone who oozes intelligence, inspiration, enthusiasm and has a gleam in their eyes as they speak with passion about their working life, it’s pretty amazing. When that person is 101 years old with no sign of waning, it is worth writing about.’

    Written last year by Che Wortley for cityofadelaide.com

    One day, maybe, people reading your posts will understand what a sorry specimen you are, Sanders.

  348. john sanders on August 9, 2020 at 8:44 am said:

    Norman Tindale was an internationally recognised Anthropologist who worked alongside Paul Lawson and their mehtor J. B. Cleland at Adelaide Museum for decades. My interest in him derives from his having spent his childhood in Japan and his grounding in the language which was exploited during his WW2 service, despite his admitted respect for Hitler and nazism (apparently).

    Why then would an expert in the field of Australian native tribal culture be invited to inspect the Somerton Man bust and probably the West Terrace mortury for the real deal in June ’49. Adelaide University offers us the rather lame suggestion that it was for him to make some form of pre DNA Anthropologic ancestry typing which might have helped police with a likely country of origin; Thus enabling them a better chance of identifing their body from amongst the many possible names provided by the public.

    I strongly doubt that he had that sort of expertise in specific race typing and for one thing the great man left no notes at all to record his findings, most out of character indeed for a man known for his manic note taking. I noted with some unusual interest that Tindale had spent the years 1929/32 engaged in field work based out of the Lutheran Hermansberg mission in N.T. That just happened to be in the same period that would be nazis Paul Johns and Carl Czarnecki worked there. So who knows? perhaps old ‘Tinny’ was there to try a more personal ID.

  349. milongal on August 9, 2020 at 11:27 pm said:

    @JS: How many Danetta’s can you find in the letter to Christabel?
    “….old England and the latter” – I’m sure I can see the letters for it in those 5 words alone….

  350. john sanders on August 10, 2020 at 6:08 am said:

    Milongal: 248 Danetta’s by my count…and while I have your attention, are you up for a new Pavel I. Fedosimov, even more positive SM comparison based on the Kangaroo Island witness description as elicited from Paul Lawson’s very latest paraphrased personal in depth outpouring to BS/TS’ Chief of Station. PS: unless this spoils the surprise value.

  351. john sanders on August 10, 2020 at 11:11 am said:

    In a rare moment of temporary distraction Gordon has apparently misidentified Constable Moss with jeweller Lyons of “that cigarette was not lit” more credible assertion (in the opinion of no body but me), It seems that our all knowing BS/TS head honcho may also have gotten his wires crossed with a bold claim that Det. R.L. Leane went across to A.S.I.O., perhaps confusing him with younger brother G.M. Leane, a Snr. Det. Inspector, who was sent off to Blighty in the early fifties on behalf of all states & the Commonwealth sans ASIO, to establish international cooperation in the newly created Interpol fiasco.

  352. john sanders on August 10, 2020 at 11:32 am said:

    Another well ducumented furphy is that Ray Whitrod joined ASIO which he most certainly did not in any shape or form; on the contrary he left Sapol to become director of Commonwealth Investigation Service, later to be installed as first Commissioner of the newly created Commonwealth Police Force which you can take as gospel…as for John Moss, he never got further than Henley Beach.

  353. john sanders on August 10, 2020 at 12:40 pm said:

    Chief Superintendent and former SA Detective Sgt. Errol Canney OBE, went over to the Commonwealth Police Force, not ASIO and in the early 1960s was appointed to the exulted post of Commanding Officer of the International Peace Keeping Force in Cyprus. So once again, for Gordon, Peteb and the die hard espionage theory collective, no joy I’m afraid.

  354. john sanders on August 10, 2020 at 11:53 pm said:

    I’ve been giving consideration to having a closer look at the first attenders and local hoops Horrie Patching & sidekick Neal Day who had no apparent need to stop and check on a man who was sleeping out on the beach; also to the likely ulterior motives of the widow Elizabeth Thompson and her career criminal accomplice Stanley Solotti who falsely claimed the body to be missing Morgan man Robert Walsh. This all having to do with an unamed stable hand and likely former Tatura internee, who may have been reported missing from Somerton racehorse stables. This homeless man would have known that he was not long for the world, as did his occasional attender, a nurse from Royal Adelaide who may have offered to put the dieing man’s mind at rest about his imminent demise and resultant concern for authorities charged with disposal of his remains.

  355. john sanders on August 11, 2020 at 3:48 am said:

    An otherwise important revelation on TBT of a newspaper interview with good Constable Moss apropos absence of matches is unfortunately deficit in legible affirmation of his verbatim wording. This is all due to the item being out of focus and publishing details likewise edited out…As for unsubstantiated claims of Det. Leane’s purjured evidence being punishable by ten years hard, perhaps our accuser might do well to consider their own dishonest childish stunt in terms of penalty. May I suggest a reasonable further period of self emoliation as being sufficient deterant from further offending.

  356. john sanders on August 11, 2020 at 5:35 am said:

    A word of caution to friend Gordon at TS/BS; not concerning untrue claims of my using various well spread IPs to deceive and commit preditory immoral acts upon minors which is to be expected when dealing with crooks. No not that, but your dreary persistence in making the most ridiculous mistakes then calling me out for suggesting that you be more careful, and having the temerity not to correct the error in question e.g. ‘Barry Traish 10/8 which is still up in it’s original text. As for your smug contrary assertion that Det. Ray Whitrod went to ASIO, you might be forgiven in having that view as there certainly are some inaccurate references to suggest same on line. Fact being Ray was still with Sapol radio patrols until the early fifties at which time he went to Sydney to take up an exective position with the NSW office of Commonwealth Investigation Service, before being promoted to Director in 1953. Thats a year before operation Cabin and the Petrov affair under charge of ASIO honcho Ron Richards (ex Wapol). My advice GC if I may be so bold is to take a leaf from your own AFIO standby, VERIFY..VERIFY..VERIFY, before falling into your own fool’s trap and being made a laughing stock amongst your clones.

  357. john sanders on August 11, 2020 at 6:17 am said:

    One thing Gordon and I can certainly agree on is his denial regarding mention of Errol Canney in his recent Q & A conversation with himself. Please be informed GC that, as much as you would like, my comments of 10/8 were not directed at you but for the education of your partner Peter Bowes who called for Errol’s ASIO status.

  358. john sanders on August 11, 2020 at 7:28 am said:

    A twenty word overview of Sapol’s Det. Ray Whitrod having ‘helped to set up ASIO’ in the late 40’s is just the sort of mixed metaphoric information that TS/BS and it’s Chief of gaffs is known and rebuked for. Other ex military Sapol officers with intercept and code cracking talents would also have assisted director Justice Read (based in Adelaide) with implementing unfamiliar intelligence gathering methods based on their own extensive WW2 experience. One such confidant would have been (Colonel) Det. Inspector G.M. Leane who never joined ASIO either, but ended up Sapol Acting Commissioner which is not too bad for an ex mounted constable like big brother R.L. of Somerton Man fame.

  359. john sanders on August 12, 2020 at 5:25 am said:

    Thought the cat had got your tongue Gordon. But that’s fine with me; I wasn’t really expecting a ‘whoops sorry’ from one who uses Wiki and Aust. Bio. hearsay to supplement fanciful ‘facts’ of their own making….With regard to your initial blooper that Whitrod took Canney over to ASIO; turns out they did both happen to be in Sydney in mid ’52, with Ray getting up to speed on Security Service ops. prio to appointment as C.I.S. Director and Errol doing a stint at NSW homicide prior to his promotion to Det. Sen. Sgt. or Insp. on return to Sapol.

  360. john sanders on August 12, 2020 at 8:24 am said:

    Hey GC what gives; first you’re saying “Hope you have a wondetful day”, then five minutes later your kicking the living shit out of my good name. What’s more your newly posted standards of decency rules for your contributor (sick) seems to have that ‘do as I say, not as I do’ double standard about it. Any how you try to have a wonderful day yourself Gorgon and maintain the rage as is your wont.

  361. Tamara Bunke on August 12, 2020 at 10:41 am said:

    Is anyone else bored by the spectacle of septuagenarian Aussies trying to land punches on each other? It’s like watching zombies copulate.

  362. john sanders on August 12, 2020 at 10:52 am said:

    It really is a shame that the early mortuary ID attemps, the names of those so nominated, along with police assessment on credibility were not apparently retained. I’m sort of intertested in a particular loner who was one of two stable hands reported missing, though not identified from what I can gather. I’m thinking along the lines of this bum being of the right age, deportment with a decidedly disheveled appearance and incompatable with the shaven, coiffeured, manicured, pedicured and decently attired beach body with polished shoes that was our SM. My man could well have been mentally deficient with a speech/hearing imediment and even an occasional patient of Parkside hospital like Keith Mangnoson was from November through January ’48. Anyhow, if anyone out there who is still serious about the Somerton Man case and has any, non spy or car theft ideas worth pursuing, give us a holler and we’ll see what transpires.

  363. john sanders on August 12, 2020 at 11:00 pm said:

    Bunkum Tamara: It’s really all ado about a clash of personalities and the cut and thrust of mortal combat ie., when one non compromising old street suit, single handedly exposes a pretender to similar background who is set on ‘fooling all of the people (fools) by devious means and no matter tge consequences. So you see it has nothing to do with copulation in any way shape or form, such suggestion being quite beyond the capabilities of your average septuagenrian, with one notable exclusion not withstanding.

  364. milongal on August 13, 2020 at 1:59 am said:

    How seriously have people looked into RAN man Thornhill – disappeared from QLD October 1948, his wife was messaged suggesting he was in Townsville (which proved wrong) and later from Sydney asking for money for a fare home (also proved untraceable).
    Potentially a lot of overlap with him and other theories – and he was a Coder in the Navy, so perhaps the Rubaiyat writings are a scratch pad for something he was working on…

    War memorial has an article about him (and there’s some articles on trove as well).

    Description varies but 5’7″ (or 5’8″ or 5’11”), light brown curly hair, grey eyes medium build, slight limp (missing joint in Right Thumb – might rule him out)
    You’d also have to wonder how QPol, Thornhill’s wife, and all of his 6 children didn’t recognise him if it was him…..

    (there is also a photo from the papers but I didn’t really get too excited over that)

    https://vwma.org.au/explore/people/804492

  365. john sanders on August 13, 2020 at 7:30 am said:

    milongal: Thornhill’s missing joint would have taken some time growing back same as E. C. Johnston’s middle finger. Anyhow while you’re here, and sorry if I seem to be recapitulating on my old favourite of some time back, that concerning Tothill’s Somerton Stables where Horrie patching and young Neil Day hung out. New lines of inquiry disclose that the old family business transfered into the hands of top trainer Nick Plews during the war years, still on the same site and just five hundred metres due east of the beach, on some road (name escapes me), which runs south to Wyatt Street. I found a young stable hand who may still be with us but a long bow to be drawn for any personal memories as opposed to ledger records…I note that Nick Plews reported to police that a pair of field binoculars were stolen from his parked car in the area which brings to mind one of Prosper’s sale ads.

  366. john sanders on August 13, 2020 at 9:15 am said:

    While it’s still fresh; Harry Tothill set up the Somerton Stables in the ’80’s on an acre and a quarter along Walker’s Rd. which was mostly grazing land and a couple of mansions (Cudmore) towards Broadway. He died young and his only son? Harry James was killed on the Somme in 1918 aged 28, and as a consequence the big house was taken over by Mat Dwyer, a friend of the distraught widow/mother Elizabeth, who seems to have let out the horse stables. It get’s a little bit interesting from here on, if only because Mat was the dad of a likely young lad also, named Mat (barb) who caught up with the Quigley gang when they stole chooks from an enclosure at back. We’re talking of course about Pathologist John Matthew Dwyer who was still camped in closeby in ’46 nit long before he sent PC Sutherland off to Bob Cowan tge analyst with a bucket of SM’s leftovers for examination. From best memory Dr. Dwyer lived at 42 Moseley St. and Bob the chemist opposite and up some towards the Thomson’s and also quite near Doug Hendrickson’s place on the Pier St. corner. Good grouping what?. So if we put that all together we might well come up with all sorts of intriguing theories, even one that may include my almost unloved derelict ex internee? derelict from the N. J. Plews’ stables.

  367. milongal on August 13, 2020 at 10:03 pm said:

    Sorry if I missed it and am rehashing old ground – if he was an itinerant hanging around the stables, why did Patching and Day keep mum about him….I assume the implication was he wasn’t really meant to be at the stables, so they didn’t want to admit he’d been there – and possibly figured some relative would claim him in any event?

    (Among other things) I have a nagging thing about the “dugouts” – the closest reference I can get is an amusement arcade that existed before that time, and I recall some speculation you had some time ago about carnies and the Glenelg Fair. I don’t really know what I think, but it bothers me that nobody seems to know what the ‘dugouts’ refer to (IIRC there were some beach huts near Brighton jetty – but in that case why use the term ‘dugouts’ when you can say “headed toward Brighton”. So we have this conundrum that the dugouts are a significant enough location in their own right to be used as a reference point, but are sufficiently obscure that Adelaideans (even from that neck of the woods) of more recent eras don’t seem to know what they refer to….
    I’ll have to see whether I can find GF’s book again – I can’t remember whether he used the term or whether he was quoting someone else (but given he boarded at Sacred Heart I’d imagine he would be familiar with the local geography – even if that was a bit later).

  368. john sanders on August 14, 2020 at 6:58 am said:

    Mt. Gambier brewer Mattew Dwyer and his family moved from Mt. Gambier to the old Toothil stables at Somerton about 1928, by which time his son John was MD qualified and training in Pathology at Royal Adrlaide Hospital. By 1945 former Col. Dwyer was out of the service and working back at Royal Adelaide along with Dr. Hendrickson and the latter’s brother-in-law and ex Dr. Graeme Robson. It is fairly likely that Chris von Czarnecki, former aid station Sister at the Finsbury & Salisbury munitions works was by now back at the Royal where she had worked pre war, along with another wartime F&S associate, the analytical chemist Bob Cowan. Let’s see; In Moberley St. there’s John Dwyer at 74 or 24, Robert Cowan at 47, Doug Hendrickson at 51, E. Freeman at 49, Sister J.E. Thomson at 91A…and working at Finisbury we had Special Branch Det. H. Strangway, chemist Robert Cowan, Sister Christabel von Czarnecki and at Royal Adelaide, all the aforementioned plus Dr. Robson (ROK b-in-law Mk 1) but excluding Harry the disappearing first attender at X beach.

    I guess if we were to be looking at Somerton Man’s demise in terms of something similar to the WW2 ‘mincemeat’ operation, difference being that in this case the bait on offer was to be alive at the onset and whatsmore most excited to be ‘ the man who never was ‘ for as long as required. This destitute homeless and totally unknown bum was thus given his only real chance of Salvation and of puting an end to his long suffering terminal illness. With guarantees of professional post mortem care eg. mould free embalming, high fashion US feather stitch furenary togs and the promise of a well attended burial plus inscribed name plaque; what else could an unknown man ask for?. Only catch to all of this outpouring of Christian kindness being that in due course the beneficiary was to be deliberately misidentified as an undesireable recently disowned by the Austrslia he loved and most desired to be reunited with. Suffice to say that the pledges made were intended to be kept and not a living soul would be worse off for what went down if the plot came to fruition.

    .

  369. john sanders on August 14, 2020 at 7:24 am said:

    milongal: Two things you might wish to consider: Patching and Day were not likely to have recognised him, cleaned up and dressed to the nines; or they were on the payroll for the sting, both grounds having equi-value in my opinion.

  370. john sanders on August 14, 2020 at 11:37 am said:

    when Neil Day’s mate Horrie Patching was prosecuted for drunken driving in ’51 he was domiciled at Broadway Glenelg, possibly 2A right down by the beach access off South Esplinade where old maps show yet another racing stable. I think I may well have mentioned this once previously as a likely entry point for the boys on the morning of their apparent run in with Somerton Man. On the other hand my other stables on Walker’s Rd. seem to have been closer to Wyatt street which would give good access via John Miller reserve, so place bets on whatever you fancy; both being equidistant from X marks the spot. PS., Leon Macdonald now has the place on Broadway and still trains nags there.

  371. john sanders on August 15, 2020 at 4:19 am said:

    milongal: John Miller Reserve, between College & Whyte Sts. was once set on an expanse of unuseable higher ground above the beach only a short distance from Alvington steps. There is little doubt that had there been any caves or dugouts around, this would have been a more likely site for them than along the South Esplinade road embankment. There isn’t really much about location in the Feltus ‘novel’ and besides Gerry was only at Sacred Heart for a single term in the winter of ’56 so forget about any recollections. It came to mind that the two old 1st AIF diggers, Jack Lyons and Arthur Lear would likely have used the two equine entry points mentioned, Whyte St. and Broadway for their dip, approaching each from opposite ends of Somerton foreshore with the body twixed them. I once tried to pin down old Arthur but all I could dig up was an ex ww1 blacksmith and camel jockey with a bad ticker, born in Bendigo Vic. and who in 1933 got himself stitched for running an illegal interstate horse betting operation at Bulli NSW.

  372. milongal on August 16, 2020 at 11:22 pm said:

    Not convinced there was a 2A Broadway back then (suspect it’s been subdivided since). And although Leon MacDonalds lists as being a “Horse Boarding Stable” there, I think it’s a home-office, rather than a stable (check googlemaps – I don’t think there’d be horsies there these days). Interestingly, though, there are a couple of buildings behind 2/2A (googlemaps shows them being part of 38 The Esplanade (with laneway access next to 2 The Broadway) and 24 Farrel St which might be consistent with old stables (and the garages on the houses at 6-7 Broadway look a little stable-like too

    If it’s any interest, S&M has a JW and HR Jackman @ 2 The Broadway through that period (and as a random coincidence, Egan on the other side of the road).

  373. john sanders on August 17, 2020 at 6:24 am said:

    After discovery of the beach body in 1948 and it’s attendant difficulties re I.D. and C.O.D etc., the S.A. Coroner was to have been informed without delay to accord with time honored common law practise. In this case PCC Sutherland was on hand to be the informant and we know by his then assignation as Coroner’s assisting officer, his orders hence could come only from that higher personage, not acting Det. Sgt. Leane who was free to run his own parallel investigation according to standard police practice. Having regard to specific prevailing circumstances in finding of the Tamam Shud fragment, it being primary evidence directly connected with the deceased, it would have been the Coroner’s prerogitive to withold such evidence if he felt that it not be in the public interest, right up until the inquest should it have been desirable. Actually police held the same discretionary powers to release certain information to the newspapers for publication if it was deemed likely to assist their own case for discovery. Necessary authority would have been by request of case officer R.L.L. Leane to his delegating supervisor Det Inspector W. O. Sheridan and only then released for publication.

  374. john sanders on August 17, 2020 at 11:56 am said:

    milongal: J.W. and H.R. Jackman who, from a real quick look at the old Adelaide nag scene, may have been an owner who went be the name of Jim Jackman in racing circles. So that would seem to fit with your Broadway address I guess. If we could only establish who the missing stable hand was and whence.

  375. john sanders on August 17, 2020 at 1:37 pm said:

    James Wheaton Jackman, big time real estate developer of Broadway Glenelg. Man Played for Norwood in his early years. Fatally ran down a kid on a bike in 1936 then had another prang in ’37, both of which recirded no liabilty and he died in ’59 from old age no doubt.

  376. milongal on August 17, 2020 at 11:41 pm said:

    is Real Estate firm “Jackman and Treloar” related if he were a big developer (I think J&R started around 1901, but could’ve been a relative?)?

    –unrelated–
    Found an interesting (and pretty sure unrelated) R (Ray?) W Jackman – a jockey originally from WA, later riding based at stables in Gawler and later Cheltenham and got in trouble early ’50s for a concealed battery in his sadle (presumably to shock the horse) and disqualified for life….There were claims the name on the saddle suggested it was another (SA) jockey’s…

    There’s also a H M Jackman that seems to be prominent on the horse park….

    but we digress.
    —–

    Forgot if I asked before, does anyone know when the South Esplanade was closed to vehicles North of The Broadway?

  377. john sanders on August 18, 2020 at 7:24 am said:

    Pathologist ‘barb’ Dwyer had lived with his folks and two sibs at 8 Baker’s Road Somerton on the corner of Phillipp St. which runs most conveniently down to the beach. When he retired from the military in 1946 he seems to have been living at Hindmarsh, his dad having gone back to Mt. Gambier to die, while his younger brother Desmond went to live over near Port Pirie. Nickolas St John Plews Jnr. had established his training operations at No 8 well before ’48 and remained through the fifties, though he ended up at Gwaler, passing in ’61.

  378. john sanders on August 18, 2020 at 11:34 am said:

    Peteb: Speculative glue is all fine and dandy, just so long as one follows directions on the tube. Like contact adhesive, the goo must be spread evenly to both dry and grit free receptive surfaces, allowed to become tacky before then aligning them exactly and joining firmly to create the bond. There is no room for error and in your particular case, that whimsical habit of shuffling non alligning bit clues of no real evidentiary value, like pieces of a jig saw puzzle, willing them to meld on call, is going to leave you unstuck mofo.

  379. john sanders on August 18, 2020 at 12:05 pm said:

    milongal: My understanding is, that from Broadway north to Glenelg proper, the original mansions along that part of the coastline were serviced from the rear by a narrow service path from the very early days. I seem to recall that it was called simply The Sea Wall, as opposed to South Esplinade, but I’ll stand corrected as to the truth of such an assumption on my part.

  380. milongal on August 19, 2020 at 12:04 am said:

    There’s a street directory from 1936 (might even be the first ever Adelaide Street Directory) that appears to show South Esplanade
    https://www.samemory.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/Gregorys1936Adelaidedirectory.pdf
    (page 98)

    Lots of unfamiliar suburb names, and sometimes no clear delineation (eg between St Leonards, Glenelg, Dunleath, Helmsdale, Grovene, Da Costa Park) – almost as though they’re intended as housing estates within Glenelg, rather than Suburbs in their own right (or maybe they all had the same post code or maybe they were so knew the mapmakers weren’t sure where the boundaries were or something?)
    You can see the tramline, which appears to follow the current route up jetty Rd and alongside Anzac Highway before merging into another service at King William Road.

    You can also see (maps 23/25 (pages 104/106))the Henley Beach train (with I think Mileposts on the station?) – the Kircalky station is on the opposite side of the road to where I thought (I thought you could still see where the old railway station was there into the 1990s (although hard to tell, because some of what I used to think was the old railway station might have just been retaining the sand dunes) – that’s near the corner of what today is Grange Rd)

    (Incidentally I also stumbled across a blog that fairly thoroughly covers a lot of the stuff from here (eg the small add analysis) and summarises with their own theory of an assisted suicide) – and some alternate explanations)

  381. milongal on August 19, 2020 at 12:14 am said:

    Ah yeap, Fuller’s 1948 map lists it as “Sea Wall” (Although it still appears as a street)
    Also appears to show the St LEonard’s bus terminating in Osmond St (which I think might be “Old Tapleys Hill Rd” rather than weaving through the backstreets off Adelphi St).

    I find it mildly interesting that “Terminus St” in Grange is already called that – given that the train line goes beyond there….

  382. john sanders on August 21, 2020 at 3:52 am said:

    milongal: I’d forget about St. Leonards, simply because it does not fit with SM’s final destination and what’s more Arthur Holderness (or one of them) did give an option of an alternate Somerton route, which is also clearly evident on the Fuller’s 1948 map of Glenelg . Not to say that Somerton Man necessarily caught that bus either, just that it would’ve been one more convenient to someone familiar with Adelaide suburbs.

    I’ve noted Gerry’s brief mention of a reported missing stable hand, as opposed to boring pages of other nominees who could not have any realistic baring on the case whatsover. SM may well have received a shave and good going over (see above), so as to present a very different likeness to usual appearance, hence no recognition. NB: Longish unkempt hair might be overlooked due to the attendant make over artist’s lack of abilty.

  383. john sanders on August 25, 2020 at 12:41 pm said:

    Boris: That fine detailed all encompassing answer was taken from Clive’s block buster alleged interview with Paul, as reported by Gordon Cramer some time in July 2017. I guess that takes care of all the doubting; right? BUT, if not you’ll be looking for a new job over this way where doubting Thomas’s are most welcome.

  384. milongal on August 25, 2020 at 10:10 pm said:

    As you would know, the bus stuff has been a bugbear of mine for ages. I know there was an alternate route through Somerton – I’ve spoken about it before (from memory it began in about ’36), and even proposed that it might still have been referred to as a variant on the “St Leonard’s line” rather than as a route in its own right. But I seem to remember someone establishing (based on the time that the bus issuing the ticket ran) that it was definitely the StL flavour not the Somerton flavour that was used). That said, agree that there’s not much interest in StL itself (just interested that the route shown in the street directories doesn’t seem to be the same route we’ve found through other means).

    One of the problems (stablehand or otherwise) I have with the whole thing is the lack of identification. Sure there’s a chance that people were afraid to come forward (as Nick has suggested), but I think more likely that the (edited) photo is not the best likeness (the bust and the photo aren’t obviously the same person).
    If he were an itinerant stablehand, wouldn’t his hands have been rougher?

    NB: One of the problems we seem to see with almost every idea that gets floated, is that we need to simply explain away some of the evidence (while treating other bits as absolutely critical). I’ll happily agree that most of the evidence is unreliable, however we can’t (as some do) choose that certain bits of it are absolutely certain while other bits can be easily dismissed as having been planted, manipulated or misreported.

    (As I think I’ve ranted about before) Most of the modern narrative is speculation. We don’t know anything about what he did that morning (we know there was a suitcase deposited at the Railway Station, we don’t *know* it was by him; we know he had a ticket for the Henley Train, we don’t *know* that he purchased it; etc, etc, etc). Basically all we know is that there was a body found on the beach….starting from there, we start choosing whose evidence we believe – and if we don’t believe the evidence from the authorities, then all bets are off about everything, because we don’t even know how accurately the beach scene and possessions were reported. There’s a bit of a conundrum that many people seem to happily accept that some part of the authorities were corrupt or deliberately confounding (for whatever motive), or incompetent – but if we accept that, we have to question the veracity of every piece of evidence – and suddenly can’t assume ANYTHING is reported correctly to us some 70 years later. Pick the coppers/analysts/scientists who we think are bodgey, and then consider which bits of the narrative they can and can’t affect.

    NB2: One of my favourites is that the TS slip was planted. It just seems such a pointless thing to do. The case is becoming a John Doe and people are losing interest, so we plant the TS slip (which only serves to reignite focus), and then somehow the rest of the Rubaiyat appears – either also manipulated by the original planter, or just some pranksters trying to get their name in the paper get taken too seriously or something….The more conspiracy that is involved in the whole thing, the stranger it is that we have any evidence. It’s sort of the biggest argument I’ve ever had with the BS site – we’re asked to simultaneously believe that this is orchestrated by the world’s greatest spies who are invisible and expert in their craft, yet they’ve left us a whole bunch of clues to work that out….

    I must have taken my grumpy pills this morning

  385. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on August 25, 2020 at 10:51 pm said:

    I prefer ‘skeptic’ to doubter, John. I hope that’s a more constructive and honourable position.

    And I’m equally at home here, there and everywhere. Although I draw the line at Bigfooty. Two bear pits are plenty for this gentle soul.

  386. john sanders on August 26, 2020 at 8:21 am said:

    Pozalujata: I’ll keep your prefered ‘skeptic’ in mind; my view being that doubting Thomas sounds less accusory…Funny thing about Bigtooty is, despite it having been subjected to yet another GC hostile takeover, some of it’s weird content is occasionally found to contain elements of truth. Something rarely encountered on either the BS or cloned Tbt site; that stamp being confirmed by said content having nothing to do whatsoever with ourTamam Shud investigation or any other known topic of human interest.

  387. john sanders on August 26, 2020 at 8:51 am said:

    One additional piece for we ‘skeptics’ Boris is, that on 10 July, 2017 TS/BS posted that the clandestine meetings between Alf Boxall and Jessica Harkness were known to Clive’s informant Paul Lawson in 1949. Your recent Tbt nicely worded ‘let off the hook’ evaluation that it could have come about from the 1977/78 Stuart Littlemore interviews does not therefore pass muster…Never give these crooks an inch Boris, they don’t deserve it.

  388. john sanders on August 26, 2020 at 10:59 am said:

    milongal: The shave and the good going over that I spoke of seemed to be sound enough reasons, in my opinion to suggest people might not be able to recognise a man known to them. Lieing dead there on a slab well groomed and dressed nicely, as opposed to the same fellow always spotted loitering around the stables with a long flowing beard, unwashed and thread bare appearance, would be a test for mine.

  389. john sanders on August 26, 2020 at 1:38 pm said:

    If you don’t mind me saying so Boris, your problems with the Clive Turner/Walker interview rest squarely on the shoulders of Peter Bowes’ insistance that Len Brown put pressure on Paul Lawson (8/6/49) to keep mum on what conversation passed between the detectives during the final stages of his bust. Presumably it was all to do with two unknown entities sharing shipping news intelligence with Russians at clandestine meeting venues in Sydney back in the day. Turns out that one was an officer of engineers based at Georges Head t’other a petit French army nurse, both of who’s names were as yet unknown to police or ASIO. Does that fit your current line if reasoning? If so you’ve been had by the self confessed master of deception.

  390. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on August 26, 2020 at 1:46 pm said:

    @Sanders, all

    well I confess I made a mistake… confusing the Clifton Gardens and the “grounds on the RNSH”. Sometimes it’s just too obvious that I come from the regional backwater of Yekaterinburg, rather than the wild lights of Sydney with it’s sawtooth littoral topography.

    I think my train of thought was going in the direction that Mr. Lawson may have inadvertently muddled some memories up and had found out about the Boxall/Harkness liasion from the Littlemore doc (and not some time earlier). But now that you have pointed me finally to the actual reference on TS/BS, I’m inclined to think that Clive’s reference to “they” isn’t to Boxall/Harkness at all, but to SM/Harkness.

    I’m awaiting Clive’s confirmation of that… so we’ll see.

    If it is indeed so, then it feels like Mr. Lawson either knows a hell of a lot more than he’s giving away; or he’s playing games with what he considers might be credulous parties. To be fair to the conspiracy-minded: Lawson clearly WAS cagey even in ’78 (or whenever the Littlemore film is from). But (and?) that caginess doesn’t necessarily scream conspiracy to me. There’s tender ground everywhere you tread. Even in Australia.

    Anyway, let’s cut it, boys.

    Just one more thing: if it is indeed so, then it firms up the Harkness/SM connection via her work as a nurse. So he’s very possibly a patient… as so many have suggested for so long. And if he was, then you’re not telling me no-one has been here before, with a badge and a warrant to have a peek at the records in the cellar?

  391. john sanders on August 27, 2020 at 7:15 am said:

    TAMAN is, co-incidentally, according to well informed GC, a so named peninsular in the former soviet territory. SHUD on the other hand, though not so co-incidentally, as defined in the urban dictionary, is a substance resembling both shit and mud but is in fact neither…By my own mean reckoning the latter could also well refer to the sort of murky crap churned out by several dedicated TAMAM SHUD blog sites that are hardly worth naming.

  392. john sanders on August 27, 2020 at 8:29 am said:

    Not surprisingly, there is quite a bit in the Adelaide press regarding theft offences from suburban horse stables, particularly around race courses and local training yards in the early post war years. For instance Keith Victor Lugg 19, stablehand of Broadway Glenelg was jailed for six months in 1947 for stealing clothing from his mates; then four local track workers reported kit stolen from their digs in 1951. There must have been some pretty rough types hanging around the traps in SM’s day and I’d think that there’s a fair chance that he could have been one of them.

  393. milongal on August 27, 2020 at 10:21 pm said:

    @JS: I’ve long chuckled at references to the BS site. Originally intended as BlogSpot, no doubt…

  394. john sanders on August 28, 2020 at 6:56 am said:

    Give it to Pete, white-anting GC’s ownership of all things Boxall/Jestyn, in securing his very own phone interview with Paul Lawson, is a coupe indeed, allbeit with some manipulation involved. Be assured that the taped interview with visuals wil be posted to apease the skeptics if I’m any judge of Peter Bowes the man

    Gordon Cramer’s four previous paraphrased, second hand Paul Lawson sessions with Clive being face to face format were likely not recorded as far as we know, so we are in for a treat with Pete….Of course his related post was not without it’s usual glaring errors whether by accident or other, an example of course being his assertion that Gerry Feltus was able to seek an interview with the long dead spy Alf Boxall at his Maroubra home. That was where we are told the original endorsed copy of deceased’s Sha’ir Omar Khayyam was produced, this version of course being at odds with what is stated on page 202 of Gerry’s Unknown Man ebook.

  395. john sanders on August 28, 2020 at 9:03 am said:

    Yes Gordon, plagiarism in every sense of the word for mine, but subject to content varification with a Tomsbytwo visual link. A thing in your favour, apart of course from your many failures to communicate truthfully, you usually do manage to get important historical dates correct; Pete’s two real bloopers being the years 1948 and 1978, both hi-lighted and both factually incorrect. For the record in June ’48 Len Brown was not yet a detective and SM not yet deceased; as for the Littlemore interview, it was taped in 1977, a year before it went to air in mid 1978 I recall.

  396. john sanders on August 28, 2020 at 11:17 am said:

    Good news for PĆŖt tge Plagiarist and I must hereby in all fairness to him stand corrected for fear of being labeled a big fibber. Although the production of Inside Story commenced in 1977, Paul Lawson’s interview with Littlmore was actually taped in March 1978. So there you go, Pete got it right and I was mistaken which is not unknown.

  397. john sanders on August 29, 2020 at 8:35 am said:

    My addled old noggin at fault once more I’m afraid, but full points to both Pete and Gordon for their well constructed means of effecting interviews with Paul Lawson sans any proofs of related conversations. For those who didn’t pick up on the dodge, our villains claim to have taken calls from Paul and not vice versa, thereby preventing taped visuals or recording of any SM topics such as the AB & JH ship counting exchanges etc. Looks like Borris also missed the boat yet again, Bowes for a change only able to put two questions to the talkative old gentleman in a full fifteen minutes, a sound enough excuse Peteb by any reckoning.

  398. milongal on August 30, 2020 at 10:18 pm said:

    Problem is that as we age our memory tricks us by remembering things incorrectly – and is especially susceptible to suggestion.
    How many interviews have “major players” had in their life, each one potentially twisting memories of how things actually happened to suit the narrative of the interviewer. And each subsequent interviewer honing in on some little detail (often misinterpreted) and cultivating that memory in a fresh new direction.

    There have been countless studies done on the susceptibility of witnesses bias through suggestion. There’s a documentary somewhere on Netflix (It might be in a kid’s series “Brain Games” – or it might not….) that simulates a bag-snatching, then interviews witnesses about. Ultimately it ends up in a “Court Room” where they have one of the witnesses plant seeds about what actually happened, and before long the bulk of the other witnesses are swearing that a camera was stolen, not a wallet…..
    It has an interesting segue to a detective who explains what sort of witness statements he finds credible, and which can be almost immediately dismissed (including excitable people who are certain that they never miss a detail), and techniques that can be used to maximise the likelihood of distinguishing between a genuine witness and a story-teller.
    Couple this with our human tendency to exaggerate a story (and over time re-enforce our exaggerated story to ourselves) and an interview so far after the fact starts to become quite unreliable.

    In short, I wouldn’t put too much weight on an interview with someone who was a small part of the show 70+ years ago – that’s being related through a third-party filter. But then I’m always skeptical that any interview on TV is twisted to some agenda too….

  399. john sanders on August 31, 2020 at 8:53 am said:

    I’m still pondering over Neil Day’s extremely short winded version of his visit to Somerton with his old hoop partner Horrie Patching to excercise their nags on the day. According to him they arrived around 5.30am and entered the beach via Farrel St. (my take) shortly after the big 9 foot spring tide reached it’s high water mark along the sea wall. He states that they saw our man SM, thought he was sleeping, rode a mile or so to Brighton along the foreshore, retraced their route back and then decided to check him out. That could not be achieved in my opinion due solely to the high water preventing southward progress beyond the sailing club outjuttings or even nearby Wilkinson Ave. sand spit. I’m sure Neil Day must have been grilled some on this business since coming in from the cold and it would be nice if results of any such proceedings could be posted. If SM had had some connection with Somerton or Glenelg stables as has been mused, then my guess is that the lads were likely aware of what was going down prior to their dawn arrival on the day..

  400. john sanders on August 31, 2020 at 10:47 am said:

    Both Gerry Feltus and his lodge mate from 2011 Gordon Cramer must share equal blame for misleading honest folks as correct details of the dual language ROK. The former in his novel says that it was printed by Australian Publishing Co. while the latter, has time and time again refered to Alf’s gift book as having been published by Collins as recently as today. One last time if I may; that particular copy of the Sha’ir Omar Khayyam was printed by the Australasian Publishing Company limited Sydney in 1944.

  401. john sanders on September 1, 2020 at 2:16 am said:

    The latest Von Czarnecki NAA freedom from information file has just been put on line for our reading displeasure eg. 40 bucks worth of repetitious bullshit by any estimation. Not recommended reading apart from the missing first pages which are still deemed too sensitive after 75 years for spies like us to feast our eyes on.

  402. john sanders on September 3, 2020 at 3:17 am said:

    The dud jumbo’s apparent early parole is welcome, it being a long held belief that even bottom feeders deserve a second chance if they repent. In saying this I would urge Boeing 747 to moderate his future personal character assassination slurrs, undertaken to gain the favour of his handler, a compulsive fibber and accused plagiarist no less.

  403. john sanders on September 4, 2020 at 12:37 pm said:

    Cramer’s BS/TS, claimed to be most authoritive of the dedicated Tamam Shud case investigation sites would have his fawning supplicants believe that a body found on an Adelaide beach in 1948, undoubtedly poisoned by soviets, was close to an allied nuclear testing ground. We the all knowing would beg to inform the dupes and BS supplicant blind followers, that there was likely no atomic testing ground even proposed in 1948, in fact it wasn’t until eight years later in 1956 that the British commenced ground testing their you beaut atomic ordinance at Maralinga far from Adelaide and a thousand miles from care. Another site even further away in another state (territory) called Woomera rocket testing range was almost up and running in the late 40s but that was even more distant, so BS couldn’t have the two locations and their respective activities confused, could they?..

  404. john sanders on September 4, 2020 at 1:12 pm said:

    OK, so Woomera is actually in S.A. but still a long hop through the desert. from the murder capital of Australia and rocket testing didn’t get going until 1949 anyway. A portion of their ordinance probably had been delivered from Salisbury munitions factory in distant Adelaide, but not the nuclear variety from my layman’s grasp on atom spys with their plottings and brewings.

  405. john sanders on September 9, 2020 at 7:51 am said:

    Peteb: Dr. Davide Ferorelli, of the RSLM in his forensic anthropology notes of 2017 with which I’m most familiar, should put to rest Cramer’s piffle on the convenient excuse for his SM nominee Pavel Fedosimov GRU losing the odd inch or two after discovery on Somerton Beach. According to Dr. Dave who made disclosures based on an even hundred spare cadivers, his findings revealed an increase in height of a centimetre or less during the first two hours following expiration, then a slight contraction of 0.06cm average, to bring his volunteers right back to their living length dimensions. Speaking respectfully of the dead I always do, are you still with us old cock? you’ve been quiet of late!

  406. Point me and I’ll shoot .. problem is there’s not many targets left. Cramer’s down, mine host is carefully ignoring the advances that have been made, the Professor is blind in one eye, BarryT has abandoned the case after such an excellent start, Clive’s gone quiet, Byron is lost in the mulga, misca to the eskimos .. which leaves you, me and dude47 with nowhere to go and nothing to do.

  407. Not to mention English Boris … mind like a rapier that bloke, admirable.

  408. milongal on September 10, 2020 at 12:14 am said:

    FFS, I don’t care about “this is the only picture we have” etc.

    Pavel Ivanovich Fedosimov and his wife Vera Sergeyevna were in New York until the late 30s. They then (traceably) worked in postings in Libya and the UK. They later (50s and 60s) attended IAEA conferences.

    PIF is not SM. And no matter how it’s twisted, it’s still piffle. If it’s a commonly reused alias (including, presumably the wife’s name) then how come we only have 2 instances of it? This is one of those arguments (all too common in SM land) where we’re asked to simultaneously believe 2 opposites (namely that the PIF name is uncommon enough to appear only twice, but also to have been so commonly reused that we have 2 instances of him in near identical roles etc….

    I don’t even see a resemblence with the photo and don’t buy the “actually, it might be SM, but wrongly classified as PIF). I quit reading the BS site because I couldn’t put up with the amount of counter-intuition and logical fallacies (or phallusies?) required to follow the theory (don’t get me started on Danetta). I hate to cite Occam’s Razor (not least because I think it’s often mis-cited), but the explanations to be able to turn PIF (or the photo that may not be PIF) into SM are so convoluted that I don’t even know how to finish that sentence…..

  409. john sanders on September 10, 2020 at 3:43 am said:

    Speaking of cadavers I still don’t see how, if SM was 5’11” tall as stated by press on day one, Laurie Elliott could have made do with a standard sized plain coffin. It is difficult to proportionalise the funeral photo of course with limited foreground comparison subjects but it certainly looks on the short side. I was able to come up with pall bearer Bob Whitington’s height at almost 5’11” of whose widow’s peak can just be made out in the graveside shot behind. He was the Advertiser police roundsman and photographer who was most knowledgeable on all the SM case details, hence his presence at the funeral. What a bummer that he didn’t leave some notes behind.

  410. john sanders on September 10, 2020 at 5:12 am said:

    Of all those who are known to have actually seen the Somerton man’s body apart from mortuary ID ghouls, ie. investigating police along with their forensic technical officers, medical examiners, chemical analysists, anthropologists and others of varying fields of expertise; Not a single one, apart from the autopsy pathologist Dr. John Matthew Dwyer made any comment concerning height that I’m aware of, in which event ‘tallish’ wasn’t giving much away. So where did 5’11” come from, the height that Det. Leane gave in his evidence and that which came through as the initial press release at midday on 1st December, 1948. The only person missing from the list would seem to be SOC man Harry Strangway who strangely went missing after his initial involvement. NB. John Cleland said ‘height to be advised’.

  411. john sanders on September 10, 2020 at 8:15 am said:

    On the question of whether Somerton man’s sponsored funeral actually made any difference to the type service he might otherwise have received if paid for out of state coffers, the answer would appear to be not in the slightest. His burial place was considered most appropriate due to it’s ease of accessability should later exhumation prove necessary, especially in that it was an expired lease and as the funeral pics denoted, the coffin being similar to one used in pauper burials and accompanied by the usual Salvation Army free service. There was some talk about the Grandstand Bookmaker’s paying for pauper burials in the past, though I don’t see how SM’s funeral could be put in such category or even deemed legitimate considering that the case was unresolved and investigation ongoing under state jurisdiction. I’m smelling a rat the size of a missing racehorse stable hand perhaps.

  412. john sanders on September 11, 2020 at 8:37 am said:

    Not being one to seek help with my research efforts, but I’m in a quandary as in whether to give up on Carl Von Czarnecki or struggle on in hope of enlightenment which I surely could do with. The Von title inclusion from it’s Polish roots is now extremely rare,unlike the original version which is as common as Nguyen in Hanoi.
    Of my knowledge, based mostly on Ancestry records and the like, only a single related? family in Australia (SA) and possibly Canada (BC) share the German landed gentry dirivitive and yet there seems to be an element of disassociation between my candidates which I can’t fathom due to their otherwise suggestive blood links.

    Working from top down, both being males we have Peter Wolfe Czar..aged 83 who lives with partner of long standing Naomi in suburban Adelaide and is a retired Advertiser journalist cum sketch artist. He and mum are members of the so called ‘Adalaide Club’ involved in any number of artistic fields such as Steam Punk art and vintage car restoration. All we know to date from his past is that he was born in WA to Christabel & Carl, schooled in Adelaide until at least ’54, travelled the world including Nth America til ’62, then for some shorter period with Naomi in the early seventies and nothing more including no record of them having a family.

    The difficulties arise with Terry, aged about 65, who seems on the cusp of being too old to be Peter’s lad but who doesn’t fit anywhere else. He was apparently from Clare SA where ‘Peter-boy’s’ doting dad and later renegade nazi H.W.E. C. Von Czarnecki worked variously during the depression years and met future spouse, nurse C. M. Davis. Interesting thing about young Terry is that he attended the Hastings St. Elementary school in Vancouver from ’68 to ’72 before finishing up at Clare High in ’73. He married into a German S.A. family in 1981 and wife Susan gave him two fine well accomplished boys in their respective like professions whose names I’ll withold for now. Sue died at Clare in 2009.

    If we go back to old Carl Czar.., when he took on his assumed short version name to avoid being arrested for colluding with the losers at war’s end and in so doing signed up for resettlement abroad as a persecuted nazi victim, only three allied countries that I know of were excepting refugees of such persuasion, they being NZ, Australia & Canada to which I was then able to trace him through letters purporting to be part of a detailed auto bio. Cross checking with three of four Aust. Govt Security Service investigation files dating from 1942 nothing correlates for me and I’m mostly at a loss as how the man might eventually have settled in Clare in 1973 as is claimed. There are no death records that I can find for him period.

  413. john sanders on September 12, 2020 at 7:57 am said:

    Peteb: If you say that the off white Keane tie is likely a symbol of the Masonic Lodge and it makes sense to you, the odds of making an ID would be shortened considerably. That is to say SM would most certainly not have been Irish Catholic, Communist, Musselman or even Orthodox Jew according to the draconian Lodge by-laws of the day. NB: Aboriginal & Torres Straights Islanders might also have had difficulties signing up which probably leaves me out too.

  414. Pete B + John S: it’s something I looked at a while ago, but didn’t find anything half as good as your (Pete’s) picture. The best I found on Trove was a 1978 article which states that “grand officers wear white tie and tails (a requirement which, these days, leads to some problems of supply)“, which – tie apart – the Somerton Man’s suitcase contents seemed a little short of:
    https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-1589769911/view?sectionId=nla.obj-1757560244&partId=nla.obj-1589846176#page/n50/mode/1up

    Oh, and you can add divorcees to the list of Masonic persona non grata back in 1948. Just so you know.

  415. Incidentally, while idly schmoozing through Trove looking for white ties just now, I found this nice white-tie wise guy smoking a cigar and carrying a violin case, from the Samuel Hood theatrical photographic collection (“File number: FL1008313, File title: 308. Smoker with violin case”):
    https://digital.sl.nsw.gov.au/delivery/StreamGate?dps_dvs=1599903419628~663&dps_pid=FL1008313&dps_func=download&dps_pid=FL1008313

    OK, it’s probably an unnamed actor pretending to be a wise guy, but he looks more like the Somerton Man than anything I’ve seen on… other sites I could name. So perhaps SM wasn’t a gangster, just an out of work actor who was reasonably good at looking like a gangster. šŸ˜‰

  416. john sanders on September 16, 2020 at 5:27 am said:

    Seems we forgot to mention that when police asked the anticipated question of Mrs. Thomson (Jessica Harkness), she was able to respond with ” We were on our way back from Melbourne where my husband had been an invitee to the new Holden car launching, and why may I ask do you need to know Inspector? “…Some time if not too busy, those not up to speed might find that there were actually two watering holes within three hundred yards of Alvington steps in 1948; so the Pier Hotel on Jetty Rd. would not likely have relevance to distance walked by SM.

  417. Name them, boogie man.

  418. john sanders on September 16, 2020 at 10:20 am said:

    Peteb: Broadway Hotel with access to the beach; I’ll leave t’other as a challenge that any half witted SM researcher should be able to answer in a trice. But for any dunce that doesn’t know where the Thomson’s were wed or where Jessica was really born and schooled will struggle.

  419. john sanders on September 16, 2020 at 1:38 pm said:

    Jessica’s ‘delight in being back in the auld dart’ indeed Peteb, maybe you got that from Bookmaker of Rabaul which no one ever read. I seem to recall a similar letter from Cornwall or perhaps on the way home where she spoke about two brats in need of nurturing and summit to do with bed pans or the like.

  420. The Broadway Hotel was so badly damaged by the 1948 cyclone it was closed until re-opening for the Christmas holidays later that year .. and as far as Jessica’s background is concerned, don’t believe everything you read .. there’s a lot of undocumented bullshit floating around on the web, and most of it is yours. Mountains of the stuff, sometimes you take up the entire 15 comments slot in this place … it must drive the Voynich mob nuts. If Dome ever decides he’s had enough of you, which I doubt because he’s a charitable old Pom, you’ll have nowhere else to go.
    The horror!
    Fair dinkum mate, you might consider trying to get something to combat this attention seeking disorder of yours .. like a life.
    I mean this with the utmost sincerity.

  421. milongal on September 16, 2020 at 10:56 pm said:

    @NP: Just FYI, NSW governemnt link earlier is borked (I suspect they don’t understand how the internet works and never thought they’d have to reprocess the same search request or somethink)

  422. Tamara Bunke on September 16, 2020 at 10:58 pm said:

    Christ. I see someone’s turned the gaslights back on down under.

  423. john sanders on September 16, 2020 at 10:59 pm said:

    Not to worry Peteb, we had discussed tge professor’s withered virgin letter to sister joan from Blighty in ’61. jo got the mumps on the way across, some days in London, a nice stay in Scotland thence Cornwall; back to Oz on the Flavia in late ’61 with family taking up residency in Meningie SA.

  424. milongal on September 16, 2020 at 11:18 pm said:

    Hey Pete (ok, you sucked me into reading your latest:) ), re drunken stumblings, perhaps he stumbled along the beach rather than along the street – then he doesn’t need to navigate the steps. Further perhaps he left Glenelg mildly tipsy with a bottle of whiskey (or some other plonk) that he’s consumed as he went, throwing the bottle away somewhere en route.
    But even away from that, surely if he were drunk (or drunk to that degree) rather than drugged/dying/both:
    1) He would still reek of booze in the morning (enough that you’d think there’d be a mention of it in police reports)
    2) The autopsy would’ve reported it (Admittedly this is just me assuming they’ve always checked whether a stiff was under the affluence of incohol)

    Also re “Who was Jessica the legend?” type questions.
    Frustratingly, I struggle with a lot of this as well, with any “concrete fact” generally lifted from Abbot. You’ll recall some time ago here we all got very excited about all sorts of things about her (living in Pirie or somewhere from memory, and leaving for overseas in the mid ’30s and stuff) – only to discover that this was a different Jessica Ellen Harkness (who coinicdentally was also a nurse, and appears never to have returned to Aus and was within a couple of years of the same age). I seem to recall someone (possibly your mate JS) suggesting an identity switch – that a recently departed (never to return) nurse was a suitable identity to steal for whatever reason you felt the need you needed a new identity (although I also have some older recollection that somebody had found her (more likely her) at least enrolled in training in Sydney at some stage)…..But like most of us I’ve forgotten far more than I remember about some of the rabbit holes we’ve been on this one….

  425. milongal on September 17, 2020 at 12:16 am said:

    Oh, also I was reading somewhere (not [email protected]) a claim that you can see other (not necessarily micro) writing on the page . I couldn’t see it myself, but in particular there was a claim that there was a phone number either O,Q or G 2953.
    G, O and Q didn’t exist as prefixes back then, however Adelaide city seemed to somehow use ‘C’ (It’s not clear to me how, because as I understand it ‘C’ wasn’t one of the 9 prefixes either – so I’m not sure how you dial C, but nonetheless trove is full of C numbers for Adelaide City Centre).
    The closest match I could find then (I figured C is similar enough to O and G for it to be mistaken) is C2983.
    This number appears a lot in trove as:
    1) An electrician in the 1930s (as best I can tell in the Southern Suburbs – but possibly well South (there’s a mention of “Christies” which I assume is “Christies Beach”)
    2) Selling a block of land in Brighton in 1949
    3)in the 1950s Linked to 222a Hanson St (today Pulteny St*) – this is listed as “lic dlr” and appears among other things to deal in Cars (from memory although Duffield was also on Hanson St, he was at the other end closer to Wakefield) trading as Sallis and Co. While this obviously post-dates SM, car connections always seem to be of a little interest – and Sallis was there before that, even if they weren’t using with that phone number
    4) From memory between the electrical and Salis there was also some ads for clean fill or earthworks or something (but I think Sallis might have been part dealer part some sort of heavy vehicle operator – although the ‘a’ makes it sounds like a small lot for such a business).

    *Digression: Adelaide City is designed according to Light’s vision in a NS/EW grid. Although most people recognise Rundle Mall as the modern-day centre (and for shoppers it is), the geographic centre is at Victoria Square, with a Square Mile around it being surrounded by North, West, South and East Terraces (East Terrace is designed as a step ladder shape rather than a straight line as a defence against natives that were feared to be wanting to attack from the hills in the East. This sort of shape meant that you could defend on 2 fronts if you had to). So the centre streets in Adelaide are King William running North/South, and Wakefield/Grote running East/West (and there’s actually some nice pubs South of Vic Sq). You’ll notice that like Wakefield and Grote, every East/West St in Adelaide changes its name at King William. Adelaide folklore suggests that this is because the King insisted that “noone will ever cross me”, so we have Rundle/Hindley, Pirie/Currie, Grenfell/Waymouth, Flinders/Franklin, Wakefield/Grote, Gouger/Angas, Carrington/Wright, Halifax/Sturt, Gilles/Gilbert.
    Interestingly, what I’m noticing in the old street directory is that a similar rule seems to have been applied as we cross Wakefield St – so Hanson St was the Southern end of Pultney St (not it’s entirety) and number 40 (Duffield motors) would have been somewhere near the Coopers Alehouse (then the Earl of Aberdeen) while 220 would have been in the last or second to last block around Giles St…..

  426. john sanders on September 17, 2020 at 2:44 am said:

    Cripes Peteb: Attention seeking and rumour mungering jibes; that coming from the foremost non substance ‘picture and paste’ exponent with matching ego in the business. Ever known Sanders to use such fancy trappings to support his modest offerings for evaluation, or allow those who offer false witness to go unchallenged, without fear or favour..So Mr. Sincerity, while I check your most helpful info on Broadway pub closure, the second Somerton watering hole from my challenge awaits. It undoubtedly would have tried to keep it’s bar & grill open during the storm and tempest of April ’48 for pride. Best beer battered whiting on the coast in the mid sixties if you’ll trust my word..

  427. But Milongal, mate, the stiff they performed the autopsy on wasn’t the drunk seen waving his arm around on the previous evening.
    Check trousers wearing for the use of: they were different. Fact. Strapps the man for that. The drunk was in stripes, the corpse in plain brown-faun.
    And while we’re at it … what could have made Harkness so valuable as to warrant all the protection?
    This business about her and Alf exchanging shipping news is a little lame, seeing half of Sydney had a harbour view

    and Tamara, you sound like the kind of sheila I could get on with. But you’d have to be over 70 and know how to surf. You in?

  428. john sanders on September 17, 2020 at 5:51 am said:

    Tamara Bunkum: Actually you are getting a little tedious yourself, having not a lot to offer in the way of opinion, but for opinionated sledging directed towards our most esteamed (sic) elderly all knowing SM case advisers Messrs. Bowes & Cramer. Being a much junior, though very close observer of these great though very near depleted pretenders, I’d be inclined, if I were thee, to maybe cut a little more slack towards their constant incoherent ramblings and let the old phonies simply fade away. In the meantime I’ll do my utmost to keep them from straying off subject as is their wont and promise to promote SM, if you pledge to do likewise Comrade.

  429. john sanders on September 17, 2020 at 9:11 am said:

    Thomas Lawson Harkness Snr. 1888/1970 formed partnership with a Maitland based electrician named Charlie Allen in about 1920 at which time he moved the family, Ellen and the two boys (Ted & Tom) from Mentone Vic. to Newcastle NSW, taking out mortgages on a suburban dwelling in Hunter St. (details on hand). During the next few years or so two daughters were born, the first named Jessie in 1921 at Maryville (Ridge) nursing mother’s hospital and Jean in 1923 at a similar centre run by the Salvation Army. It seems that the contract business was not as profitable as hoped for, the partnership dissolving in late 1925 and old Tom going into voluntary singular bankruptcy (details of liquidation on hand) in 1926. From that point on things get hazy though it seems that the Harkness family minus Jessie went back to Mentone for baby Ellen’s birth in 1928. My source suggests our girl was likely raised by the Salvos and may have been fostered as well, going to local schools then starting her nursing career at about fifteen in an ‘Army’ run charity hospital. She may later have sought higher status at a training hospital such as Royal Newcastle where she may have qualified by 1942 though this is a logical assumption on my part. That was the year of her alleged start of training at RNSH Sydney at the mature age of 22. No wonder her name is not recorded as a tranee or in house fully qualified nurse through numerous searches over the years. Naysayers can believe what they like about most likely irrelevant Jo Thonmson’s upbringing but they’re not going to make much headway out Marrickville way, rest assured.

  430. Back it up mate …

  431. john sanders on September 17, 2020 at 12:50 pm said:

    Peteb: If you’re addressing me, perhaps a rumour of feigned civility might be in order. If not than accept my apologies for any perceived doubts concerning your provocative tone in questioning of my subject knowledge and integrity. Good manners maketh the man after all is said and done mofo.

  432. Tamara Bunke on September 17, 2020 at 2:33 pm said:

    @Peteb – the surfing’s not great at Vado del Yeso, I’m afraid. But there’s an airstrip at Vallegrande nearby. You dig?

  433. milongal on September 17, 2020 at 9:38 pm said:

    @Pete: If the drunk wasn’t the stiff then the wandering from Glenelg didn’t necessarily happen – so the wander from the hotel becomes a moot point, because in that case it’s not SM and was not necessarily someone tying one on at the broadway – or have I totally missed where you were going with that?

    While I agree there’s a good possibility the “drunk on the beach” wasn’t SM (I find it extraordinary that even Lyons who saw both wasn’t prepared to say he thought they were same), I think the stripes vs plain trousers is potentially just confused witnesses. I think I mentioned here before a doco on Netflix that shows the differing witness statements from people who were present at the same incident (to the point where people swear the offender was wearing a red jacket when they were in fact in a blue one – and that’s being interviewed almost immediately after the fact; with time the discrepancy only grows). How soon after the body was found were Strapps and Neil interviewed, and are they reliable witnesses? Both they and Lyons claim they couldn’t really see the face because it was dark (which I find odd given the time and the distance away they were), yet we accept with certainty that they talk about striped pants? And the reality is that despite our focus on them looking into history, at the time they would have been recollecting an incident that at the time wasn’t necessarily particularly memorable for them.

    One of the things we seem to forget in a lot of this, is that when the body was first found the coppers assumed it was a mundane death and that the body would be claimed shortly and everything would continue on as normal. By the time they realised they needed to be thorough the horse had likely already bolted – and had involved several different teams of investigators who potentially had different ways of recording and sharing (or not) what they found.

    So it’s easy for us to be critical of how the case was handled at the time, but the police couldn’t have known that this was going to become such a mystery. In fact I found an ex-copper’s assertion that every death is thoroughly investigated quite odd. Given the number of bodies the police must collect, and given the number of them that are probably quite mundane, I don’t believe that even today (when we should know better) there is sufficient rigour in a lot of bodies that are picked up – simply because it’s a routine task that you’re not expecting to turn into a major mystery. Couple that with a couple of inexperienced actors in there somewhere and you have a perfect storm.
    As I think I’ve ranted previously this is one of the reasons I struggle with too many ideas of conspiracy or cover up. We need to simultaneously believe that there were puppet masters very good at covering up after themselves, but stupid enough to keep facts leaking out that only bring attention to the case. And while I’ll accept if it’s not the authorties pulling the string but some ‘bad guys’, you still have to question their competence if they’ve left us the bread crumbs subscribers to some of those theories follow….

  434. milongal on September 17, 2020 at 10:20 pm said:

    @JS: Charlie Allen presumably no relation to the proprietor at the Broadway – William Allen?

  435. Fair enough. How about we move onto the box of matches. Not only didn’t Moss find any, he gave a newspaper interview to that effect.

  436. John Sanders … I repeat, back it up, mate.

  437. john sanders on September 17, 2020 at 10:47 pm said:

    milongal: Seems somewhat ambiguous I know, but whilst witness Lyons was not able to identify identify the man by his face or clothing, he was nevertheless quite certain in his belief that the evening man and the morning man were one and the same….Speaking of clothes, I note that friend Cramer has posted photos of Bob Wake whom I understand will now take a prominant role his big final drive to the who done it line. Pic on the right taken from a surveillance file is certainly Big Bob, the guy with him a young Doug McLellan (sic). Shot on the left also identified as Wake seems suspiciously dated as for the attire which to me looks 1920s, worn by a man of an age too old to be him at that time, besides Robert Frederick Bird Wake was a rather dapper dresser.

  438. john sanders on September 17, 2020 at 11:23 pm said:

    Tamara: I seem to recall sometime before the our comrade uncle’s uplifting from his temporary resting place off Vallegrande airstrip (circunvalacion 2do Ant.), grave robbers made a dig and found his pipe tobacco & pouch intact. An imperialist CIA puppet pilot had apparently souvineered the great patriot’s beloved briar pipe and Zippo at the time of his martyredom.

  439. ŠæŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃƒŠ¹ŃŃ‚Š° on September 18, 2020 at 7:44 am said:

    Milongal expresses eloquently what others have also tried to say here and elsewhere too. I have always been suspicious of the ‘telling detail’ and ‘gotcha’, such as the striped trousers. There likely won’t be a Sherlock Holmes/Columbo solution to this one, however hard certain serious investigators on evidence based blogs want that to be true.

    Pete makes good observations around the long timelines in the initial investigation, but it’s hard to judge if these are even unusual for the time, let alone indicative of letting a cover up happen. And much of it seems to depend on the scant available record. The huge gap here are the police files, supposedly destroyed decades ago. It seems impossible to accurately reconstruct the investigation so as to be able to judge it. We don’t know what we don’t know. The constable, for example, told the inquest that he “made it his business” to search the body. But then he would say that, wouldn’t he. If there’s a cover up at work, isn’t it most likely to be covering up plod’s own shortcomings?

    And it’s easy to cry “spies!” whenever there’s something unsolved or in some way mysterious. The Isdal Woman? Spies! Because missiles. Or maybe art theft. Or IRA weapons deals. Or because Germany. Peter Bergmann? Spies! Because not on CCTV. But really it’s spies because otherwise: ordinary.

    Remember just how crap “spies” and “assassins” actually are in the field. Litvinenko, Skripal and Nawalny as recent examples. Wetwork is a messy business, never elegant, never in the shadows.

  440. john sanders on September 18, 2020 at 12:20 pm said:

    milongal: In re yours of 16 inst…BS/TS @ Old Codes New Codes & Concealment of 17/9/17 introduces accidental newcomer Russian Kate with news of Sister Jessie Read Harkness bn.1900, died 1985 Balaklava SA aboard SS Moldovia on her way to Spain in 1936 for service with the nationalists (commies). When I exposed the attempt to connect her with SM through an accessory Miss MM said informant pannicked and left town, though our usual suspects carried on their “Where’s Kate gone GC?”. “Dunno PB maybe the KGB got her!”. Truth being the co conspirator had departed for the Dominion in total embarrassment about being caught out. The other local lass was Jessica Moir Thomson nee McFarlane bn. 1918, dec. ’85? from Port Lincoln who settled with her infant son in Glenelg when husband George died at Gladstone SA in ’41. The name connections and location proximity to the other George & Jessie could have been used as a decoy I guess but????. You will not be surprisec that a much younger Pavel Fedosimov some how gets himself caught up in the Spanish civil war with the old nursing Sister from memory. Hope that clears me of any devious doings.

  441. john sanders on September 18, 2020 at 1:21 pm said:

    Heaven help me I’m getting to be as bad on names as some others I bitch about. Jessie Muir Thomson 1918/94; I think her daughter’s name was Janice or Pamela and she lived just a few streets back from 91A Moseley.

  442. Boris: you’re the rational one …. how do you explain the appearance of a box of matches, and what inferences can you draw from same?

    … still waiting, Sanders, treat the back up challenge as a small test of your credibility, ok?

  443. john sanders on September 18, 2020 at 10:23 pm said:

    Milongal: Two Allen’s don’t seem to be keyed alike; Broadway Allen being from the English immigrant monied William Allen of the counties clan and poor Charley probably convict stock like other Allens up Maitland way whom I notice managed to later serve in France. Tom’s partner wasn’t on of them so without more detail I didnt trace him.

  444. john sanders on September 18, 2020 at 10:45 pm said:

    Peteb: It’s your funeral MATE…and for anyone else hanging out for answers, go on over to ‘the Ultimate SM’ site and dial back to dusty’s post of 25/2/20 which refers to the contents of a response from the kind Salvo people which was a surprise considering the long delay. It seems to set straight their knowledge of a child who was almost certainly on their books named Jessie Ellen Harkness which they could not confirm because of a living relative (Kate) disclosure policy….Also note a reply from ‘PETEB’ one hour and twenty minutes later which made some brief mention of Prosper having been a fence which seemed out of place but totally consistant.

  445. john sanders on September 18, 2020 at 11:00 pm said:

    Peteb: Fair enough; guess It’s not worth considering that the matchbox floated off along with SM’s felt hat around high tide at 4.45am. Do you recall reading a trove article about a hat and box of matches having washed up on the beach at Kingston, Kangaroo Island? ….Neither do I Mate!.

  446. john sanders on September 19, 2020 at 8:17 am said:

    Peteb: A small test of my credibility, which might be too much of a test for thee unassisted, would be to check out the likes of Newcastle Herald, Maitland Murcury Singleton Argus or SMH for Thomas Lawson Harkness in banktuptcy to petitioner General Electric Co. I found three entries, but there must be others and also notice of an auction with a list of electrical equipment, all in said name. Of course your research team may find a thousand other electricians with that handle in greater Newcastle circa 1926 MATE but I think you’ll luck out as usual…Now SM’s second watering hole and pastie to die for if you please. PS. Tom was a linesman by trade.

  447. john sanders on September 19, 2020 at 9:06 am said:

    Peteb: In re your new quest for answers; unfortunately both the first question and the very last, are the least likely to draw any positive responses. Reason being that ex swab Gordon Strapp’s mistaken stripes and very junior acting detective Sgt. R L Lean’s short box of Bymay matches have well and truly run their race. Why not take my advice from four years back and go for broke on Big Bob Wake; Afterall you’ve got the text book and Gordon only has his ‘cheshire cat’ which is jack squat.

  448. Milongal .. according to Lyon’s deposition, the fellow lying on the beach was a only yard away from the bottom of the steps, and given that Strapps first observed him from that distance, and in good light, do you still think he was mistaken?

  449. Tamara Bunke on September 19, 2020 at 2:00 pm said:

    @Sanders… did those grave robbers happen to find a box of matches?

  450. john sanders on September 19, 2020 at 11:01 pm said:

    Tamara: There was some mention of ‘Federales’ but I naturally thought they were back up for the final sweep. If they had meant Federal matches (ave. contents 60) that would make sense also, but you would have had some idea, surely?.

  451. john sanders on September 19, 2020 at 11:26 pm said:

    Peteb: Milongal isn’t likely to fall for your arm twisting. Strapps and Olive were never closer to the body than 10 yards and if we think he be misunderstood, he repeats it, just for slow witted types that always need reminding…Of course the statement taking plod might have got the distance wrong, similarly the striped duds which of ciurse were a diagonal fleck, I shd say.

  452. john sanders on September 20, 2020 at 11:33 am said:

    So our deceptive friend Peteb in his misleading latest speel describes young Strapps as being CURIOUS does he?. Could have fooled us who have digested the details a little more closely, especially in light of the witness telling his future wife Olive not to be such a sticky beak in her own desire to check the man out for signs of his apparent afflicion or if inderd he might even be dead as she alluded to.

  453. john sanders on September 20, 2020 at 1:23 pm said:

    Still you’ve got to give it to the man. Only two advances made over the last 70 years according to our man Peteb; always prepared to give credit where such is due to Cramer’s ‘I’m a believer’ letter Q disclosure on micro writing then also from 20015 and equally enlightning, Byron Deveson’s modest observation of a certain witness’ spurious claim of seeing the evening live beach body in Striped trousers contrary to police findings. If only our poor bonzo had have found these clues first he’d be even more insufferable in pointing out the limitations of Feltus, Abbott and Pelling’s Voynich team.
    “.

  454. milongal on September 20, 2020 at 11:38 pm said:

    @Pete: As with many things, I really don’t know what to think. I guess while I agree it’s important to explore inconsistencies in any accounts, I wouldn’t necessarily assume any particular detail (especially coming from plebs who aren’t necessarily the world’s greatest witnesses). Consider why the two young couple went to watch the sunset. I’d imagine that the pants of the sleepy dude on the beach weren’t exactly at the forefront of their mind.

    That said, I’ve never necessarily been entirely comfortable with the man that evening being SM – or at least, if it was him, then time of death seems puzzling (especially given the partially digested food in the belly). I also tend to agree with JS that the tide that night likely came up to the rocks – as I think tides in that area often do, and we know there was a king tide that night…..so no mention of dampness on the body and/or salt staining on the clothes suggests the body hadn’t been there overnight…..but that’s as speculative as anything else.

    I’m hoping to get back to Adelaide soon, and specifically have a wander down Somerton way and maybe take some happy snaps.

  455. Name: Cyril John Wilson
    Death Registration Year: 1985
    Death Registration Place: Victoria, Australia
    Father: John Mangnosan
    Mother Maiden Name: Wilson
    Reference Number: 5246

  456. Name: Cyril John Wilson
    Birth Year: abt 1906
    Age: 79
    Death Place: Sqam, Victoria
    Father’s Name: John Mangnosan
    Mother’s Name: Caroline Ida
    Registration Year: 1985
    Registration Place: Victoria
    Registration Number: 05246

  457. john sanders on September 21, 2020 at 4:09 am said:

    Three posts to go for Gordon by his own reckoning and he’s making every post a winner, leaving we also rans floundering in his ‘Bob Wake’ just as our kindly S.A. Grandstand Bookies had predicted. Unless of course a certain allerted stalker of our sad aquaintance can sneak from the pack and flog his seemingly long dead ‘horse in striped pajamas’ over the line to win the Somerton handicap…which alas would be bitter cup and last post for friend Cramer. Got a match anyone?.

  458. john sanders on September 21, 2020 at 6:40 am said:

    Peteb: We’re told that the ‘shd’ word, as attributed to Strapps’ paraphrased ‘I shd say…..’ description of the brown fake Stamina duds, may instead have been an Arabic derogatory acronystic term for ‘shu hada’ or ‘go to the devil’, as opposed to recent quick on line era jargon for ‘should’ which I have always had doubts about.

    Anyhow check it out MATE and you might have to reconsider our young ex naval rating’s intended meaning. A word of caution, If invited into a Dar el Harb one shd avoid using the word in full for it is also used by uncouth Bedouin folk to invite an alternate use for the oral cavity exterior protrusions other than for sucking sorbet.

  459. Let me be the first to congratulate you, Johnno mate, as being Nick Pelling’s official spokesman for matters that pertain to the Somerton Man Mystery. A tough job but one you are well equipped for … I ā€˜m certain there are many others like me who just cannot get enough of your witticisms and depth of knowledge.
    And well done, Dome, you certainly can pick them, and my sincere congratulations again on a sterling set of visitor numbers.

  460. john sanders on September 21, 2020 at 8:21 am said:

    Misca: Sqam is not a Victorian place name. The letters SQAM happen to be a Latin legalistic acronym meaning ‘assumption of death’ which has been a sticking point for me since your last advice on this man’s life and family details similar to that kindly repeated above. In this case there happened to be two people of the same name and suburb in Melbourne from memory and I worry that their reported physical passing in 1985 and cemetery records of scattered ashes etc. may have been an honest online stuffup as is so common. In essence, for me to follow up and close the man out as a person of interest, could you advise on your source’s Sqam derivation. PS. I note no mention of Grace Olga Wilson nee McAlpine, born 1908 died 1977, the subject’s recorded legal spouse in your search details.

  461. john sanders on September 21, 2020 at 8:41 am said:

    Peteb: Pretty captions, logos and such to illustrate possible flawed assertions on your part, whether deliberate or not, are not going to make the grade with folks who know the details of this case at least as well as you. Take for instance your claim that Leane collected some items from the Keane suitcase to set up for press photos back at the office are somewhat spurious . Likewise I can’t seem to recall mention of his ever having visited with your ‘give us a call Paul’ friend Lawson or his customer at the mortuary. I’ll see if I can confirm either if the above and get back to you MATE.

  462. john sanders on September 21, 2020 at 12:07 pm said:

    Lucky seven for some, but not for Peteb which equates to his latest Tomsbytwo travesty, comprised of Detective Leane’s busy agenda of completed tasks, six of which were undertaken by others prior to his involvement almost six weeks into the investigation. The other relates to his days attending the West Terrace morgue to supervise Paul Lawson’s work and dress the body, there being no record of his ever going near the place. Of course there is mention of him in Paul’s work diary, to wit, he and others inspecting the bust/cast but that would have taken place either at the museum or upon delivery at CIB headquarters on the day after SM’s funeral. As for the famous Barbour threads and T. Keane white? tie shot with the perported brotherhood backing, I haven’t quite got to the bottom of its source yet, but rest assured I will.

  463. You know, mate, it’s only just occurred to the committee that you are the Somerton Man’s equivalent of Donald Trump. Like the President of the United States you don’t have problem in making up fake news, and of course here at Cipher Mysteries you have a host and an audience only too willing to accept it. Otherwise they would raise an argument or two against your various notions.

    However one problem that might arise for your ever obliging host is that what you write here might one day be attributed to him in an indirect way. As an example, it is almost impossible to disassociate Fox News from President Trump. They are one and the same.

    Cipher Mysteries and John Sanders. Nick Pelling and John Sanders!! A formidable team, don’t you think?
    Awesome.

    Still, there’s got to be a home for blokes such as yourself and I’m only too happy to boost a further series of your comments here at Cipher M … so let’s see how many this post spawns, there’s only room for about a dozen on the side-bar, but that shouldn’t be a problem for you old sport.

    Nobody there seems to mind.

  464. john sanders on September 22, 2020 at 3:19 am said:

    Thank’s Gordon for kind advice on Paul Lawson’s hospitalision for what will hopefully be a short stay and of course our best wished for a speedy recovery.

    Paul in his interview with Stuart Littlemore relating to the various people who came to see his completed bust. In a part not shown on the ‘Inside Story’ TV show, remembering he was a much younger (57) man at the time, Paul had been rather emphatic that the Identity attempts were were all by people of the subject’s own age group, not younger. Thirty years on and then in his 90’s a more mature Paul Lawson wasn’t so discerning re ages when he did his demonstration tape of an out of place young woman’s reaction to seeing the bust back in July ’49.

    The 1978 interview did not include anything to do with a 27 year old female whom the interviewee had presumably forgotten was shown the bust. Such a mistake on Paul’s part might well have been ripe for plunder by a shrewd lawyer the likes of Littlemore, but in the end he choose not to call his man out, probably due to a perceived edginess and for favour of recording more important aspects which had not yet been raised. Stuart was still of the mistaken belief at the time that nurse Jestyn had positively identified Alf Boxall from the bust (inside story) and prefered to work on that perhaps.

  465. john sanders on September 22, 2020 at 5:06 am said:

    milongal: Sorry to find it necessary to negatively intercede on your late most compromising position as to the possibility of a body exchange during the night. I’m quite certain that Constable Moss, giving evidence at the inquest, was most emphatic in his assessment that the beach body’s state apart from the obvious, being that “It was cold, stiff and damp” or words to that effect from memory.

  466. john sanders on September 22, 2020 at 7:19 am said:

    Peteb: Then you’d be a Biden man no doubt and in so saying, a most devout Don Lemon CNN arse lickin rigger-in-the woodpile to boot. But politics aside, I’m not a fan of either man though most anxious nonetheless for word on any fake news at my humble undertaking in order to acknowledge and own it if applicable. That being so, I don’t hear any firm rebuttals to my latest list of your own outragous and foolish blunders. Here’s another sample to make eight on the same thread, which although nowhere near your worst will suffice to make my day…The dark brown flecked Wilson strides with the fake Stamina label, likely worn by the man in the evening and morning when found, were already subject of inquiries by Russell St. CIB a whole month before Det. Acting Sgt. Leane was even on the scene MATE.

  467. Love it, mate, you should be in the mushroom business.

  468. john sanders on September 22, 2020 at 10:13 am said:

    I can only do fungi and toadstools if that works for you MATE.

  469. There is a marriage record:

    Name: Grace Olga McAlpine
    Gender: Female
    Marriage Registration Year: 1930
    Marriage Registration Place: Victoria, Australia
    Spouse: Cyril Jno Wilson
    Reference Number: 8293

    There is also an electoral roll (1977) for her showing her living in Oakleigh, Henty, Victoria, Australia (as a house domestic at 20 Best St.). Cyrl listed as a “driver” is on the same electoral roll at the same address.

    There is also a Wills and Probate Record for him as follows:

    Name: Cyril John Wilson
    Death Date: 6 Feb 1985
    Death Place: Oakleigh
    Occupation: Rtd Truck Driver
    Grant Date: 13 Mar 1985
    Grant: P

    I realize that Squam is not a Victorian place name. I simply did a cut and paste of what appears on ancestry. Sometimes, transcribers have difficulty reading original documents and simply go with what they think it looks like. I have seen similar errors before and often correct them through ancestry when I can.

  470. There is another Cyril John Wilson (born 6 Oct 1911 – Kurrajong , NSW). He married Audrey Irwin in Sidney on 16 January 1940. She petitioned for divorce in 1946. He died in 1980 Katoomba, NSW. He can be found on Trove as he was regularly finding himself in trouble for speeding, theft and assault in and around the Richmond area. His parents were Timothy Wilson (1853-1922) and Mary Jane Mahoney (1879-1956).

    Just to add to all the excitement, in 1939, a Lorna Clarissa Wilson (formerly Shepherd) petitioned for divorce from a Cyril John Wilson. Their marriage (probably bigamous) was in April 1934 in Penrith. Given that Cyril John Wilson (1911) was living in Penrith from 1934 – 1939, I would take a guess that he is the fellow who originally married Lorna.

  471. Just realized I messed up the dates and unnecessarily accused our second Cyril John Wilson (1911) of bigamy. The dates imply that he was first married to Lorna Clarissa, divorced and then married Audrey. Apologies all around.

  472. john sanders on September 22, 2020 at 10:46 pm said:

    Misca: Many thanks for your efforts, much appreciated as usual.

  473. john sanders on September 23, 2020 at 4:53 am said:

    The Cyril John Wilson of Gembrook Vic. who was ticketed for speeding on his motor bike in Dandenong on 1/3/25 is not likely to have been my Cyril or any of those others mentioned, which gives rise to the possibilty of mistaken identities with regards death and probate records. I guess Grace’s place of abode Prahran on her demise while worth noting, is likely not all that significant in light of the death year spread of seven + years.

  474. john sanders on September 24, 2020 at 7:03 am said:

    Boris: For once I’m in agreement with Peteb, in that long retired Sen. Sgt. R.L.L. Leane was merely taking the piss out of the vulnerable young upstart ambulance chaser Stuart Wagstaff . His retort when asked about recollection of finding a Tamam Shud slip on yon body ie., “yeah it was in his coat pocket”, followed up by the snigger tipped curare spears, hypodermic syringe and outrageous claim to effect that, “They’re all still down in the place” (evidence locker) would have been cause for bringing down the house in any TV comedy clip….Of course you’ll have heard that the great man died at Victor Harbor golf course on 29/6/79, barely a year after the interview, shooting for an eagle on the 440 yd. par four 13th hole. His life long pal and former partner in crime Len Brown conceded the point and marked the boss’s card accordingly in very very tiny writing as was his old habit in the job.

  475. Tamara Bunke on September 24, 2020 at 12:03 pm said:

    What chance did any of us ever have? Or even SAPOL? When over on TS/BS it turns out everyone’s favourite wrestler-cum-gala-SM-impersonator transpires to be the hero of the piece, having sneakily kept back some head hair from those halcyon ’49 pre-DNA days. Amazing prescience… he should ask Crick & Co. to return their Nobel gong to its rightful owner.

    And there’s more! Our one-man CSI Adelaide had the stuff independently tested, it seems, by someone with a whole lotta lab, but perhaps very little curiosity (“Now, Paul: exactly WHERE – and WHO – did you get these poisoned and irradiated locks from, old chap”?).

    You couldn’t make it up.

  476. Tamara Bunke on September 24, 2020 at 12:03 pm said:

    What chance did any of us ever have? Or even SAPOL? When over on TS/BS it turns out everyone’s favourite wrestler-cum-gala-SM-impersonator transpires to be the hero of the piece, having sneakily kept back some head hair from those halcyon ’49 pre-DNA days. Amazing prescience… he should ask Crick & Co. to return their Nobel gong to its rightful owner.

    And there’s more! Our one-man CSI Adelaide had the stuff independently tested, it seems, by someone with a whole lotta lab, but perhaps very little curiosity (“Now, Paul: exactly WHERE – and WHO – did you get these poisoned and irradiated locks from, old chap”?).

    You couldn’t make it up.

  477. john sanders on September 24, 2020 at 1:06 pm said:

    Tamara: How could you dare to doubt the word of two original members of the Inner Sactimonious club, one presently ailing, of concocting such co-conspitatorial evidence to put self and pelf before truth and justice to promote Pavel Fedosimov the saddle nosed spy over all other non viable contenders for the role of Somerton Man. What evidence do you have to refute such a plausable story that has been at the forefront of discovery since one of Gordon Cramer’s most ardent and undenypiably honourable ferrets first interviewed the ever canney Paul Lawson in 2017. What hath God rort (sic) prey (sic) tell.

  478. john sanders on September 25, 2020 at 11:41 am said:

    Tamara: A long time between drinks for Big Tootie to come back on line with some news, but good news in the form of Rejected tapatalk’s convenient link in to the Kangaroo Island ferry service timetable that just happens to co-incide with Mr. Cramer’s latest blurb, hot off the dingla from a much improved Paul Lawson. This of course concerning Pavel Fedosimov’s prospective trip over to the mainland for his appointment with big Bob Wake and his CIS hoons on Somerton Beach. Can’t wait for the finale, can you comrade?.

  479. Tamara Bunke on September 25, 2020 at 7:35 pm said:

    Sanders, all: I’m also very interested to learn what technique was used to boil the inside of the Somerton Man’s skull in situ. The mind frankly boggles.

    Never has the phrase “go boil your head” seemed more apt.

  480. John / Tamara: all I feel when reading Paul Lawson’s recent comments is a deep sadness. What else is there to say?

  481. Tamara Bunke on September 25, 2020 at 8:05 pm said:

    Nick, it’s not Paul’s comments that worry me, personally. In fact, we don’t even know if they are his comments. We certainly don’t know how they were obtained. That notwithstanding, it’s the use to which others are putting these comments that concerns me.

    Some people out there might need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

  482. Tamara Bunke: there are websites where everything is carefully checked (but are perhaps a bit dry for some readers). There are websites that aim to provoke thought and discussion (but perhaps get caught up in the provoking bit). And there are websites that just make stuff up, week in and week out, and where you’d need to hire an army of forensic detectives to find even a single sentence that’s true.

    Doubtless you have your own opinions on this too.

  483. Provoke?

  484. john sanders on September 25, 2020 at 10:53 pm said:

    It seems of late, the former conduit between Paul and Cramer, has been cast aside for favour of more direct and reliable coms with his top informant. Apart from some minor doubts as to the quality of evidence being touted on his blog, I’m worried that these long telephone conversations, all instigated by Paul, must be a drain on his miserly pension payments. This only compounded by the news that Peteb is also now on the list for the old codger’s apparent need to impart long kept secret case facts through expensive trunk calls; unless of course the latter’s post reports of these are simply part of his well known plagiaristic forays into his former best pal’s exclusuve espionage domain .

  485. john sanders on September 26, 2020 at 1:52 am said:

    Peteb: Don’t know about Barry Traish, but the only Big ‘T’ I’m aware of is still firmly ensconced in his White House, to remain so unless the other crooked prospective tenant doesn’t dice his black power mask, cease making stuttered platitudes to any as yet uncommitted voters and give them some hope for the future.

  486. john sanders on September 26, 2020 at 3:09 am said:

    The BS/TS helpful map, second of his pretty travel brochures, this one allowing us imbiciles to track the exact route taken by tour leader comrade Pavel Fedosimov on his land/sea adventure to Kangaroo Island safe house. Strontium 90 is a by product of nuclear fission ie. via atomic explosion after which contamination is usually a consequence of resultant fallout. Somerton Man’s hair contained residue of 90 according to latest news reported directly by Paul Lawson, which if reliable means that exposure could only have come about through his near proximity to a nuclear bomb blast. Biggest problem with Gordon Cramer’s latest bungle (+map) is that it doesn’t include the US Bikini Island zone which from 1946 until ’49 was the only above ground atomic test site in existance, excluding possibly White Sands NM which would still be top secret. Most of us will be aware that the USSR’s very first reported AG test was not until their ‘Big Bolshie Boy’ bang on 29/8/49 at their experimental site in modern day Kazakhstan. Perhaps Gordon Framer might care to rectify his Bikini oversight by inserting a tiny dot for in the remot area of sea off micronesia so as not to spoil his well meaning, allbeit totally useless chart.

  487. john sanders on September 26, 2020 at 5:56 am said:

    I Don’t quite understand Peteb’s latest syrupy story line. At first bluff it appears to do with Ron Searl’s wartime sketches and his choice of pencils, then deviates to wards Gerry Feltus and his P76 Leyland which I know came out in ’73 when he made detective, same time as another new suit in Sydney @JS. Alf Boxall also gets a mention along with some convalescing Changi prisoner, taking advantage of a certain young RNSH bedpan nurse at Clifton Gardens hotel with rooms by the hour after 6pm. I wonder if an 86 Sqn. Flt. Lieut. name of uncle Colin was at the wheel of that converted Hudson bomber seen dropping Sci-ops messages to the ex POWs, ie. ‘Come home lads war’s over & don’t forget the duty free in Singas’… Nice Peteb.

  488. Tamara Bunke on September 26, 2020 at 11:13 am said:

    Pete, it seems to me that you have a twinkle in your eye much like Che’s. And he liked to provoke things too.

  489. Six pencils, Tamara, SIX !! WTF is going on there?

  490. john sanders on September 26, 2020 at 1:39 pm said:

    Tamara: And the CIA filth up an off with uncle Che’s Tanganyika Meerschaum pipe, as like swine probably did with a very similar one that our poor dead poet Joseph Saul Haim Marshall, was himself prepared to die for…’Just between you and I’.

  491. john sanders on September 26, 2020 at 1:56 pm said:

    Big thanks to Gordon for his post date inclusion of the Marshalls on his outward bound travel map; and I wouldn’t be surprised if Guinea Airways had a limited VIP evacuatiin flight for concerned Bikini island chiefs about the time of the the big bang.

  492. john sanders on September 26, 2020 at 3:08 pm said:

    Alf Boxall was never admitted to RNSH during his service career.
    RNSH was civilian and never used for convalescing ex POWs period.
    Alf Boxall thought that his ROK French army nurse was twenty, no older.
    Tom Musgrave backed up Boxall’s story to the letter thirty years later.
    Tom’s Mrs. Lived close to Suzie Boxall so Alf’s address was well known.
    In ’46 Alf was mostly at sea in the islands. What chance of a letter to Jess?.
    Jessica Harkness’ name was never found at RNSH despite contrary claims.
    Jess wanting discretion, lied about wartime military service under an alias.
    Sapol enabled their informant’s secrecy by supporting the bogus RNSH line.

  493. John Sanders: you keep claiming that there’s nothing connecting Jessie Harkness to RNSH, but p.158 (in Appendix D) of Margaret Rice’s (1988) “The Close of an Era: A History of Nursing at the Royal North Shore Hospital, 1887-1987” lists “Harkness, Jessie E.” as having graduated from the RNSH’s School of Nursing in 1946:

    http://www.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au/personal/dabbott/tamanshud/appendix_D_graduates.pdf

    So… this may not be your finest moment. :-/

  494. john sanders on September 26, 2020 at 10:59 pm said:

    Nick: First time I’ve ever seen the graduation paper and would like to know when and how it came to light. So many SM stalwarts over the years denied there being any such confirmation including Abbott and co. from which I took my lead. You’ll check back through many mentions of negative connotation in CM eg. your own venture into the world of Jestyn as Mrs. Willem Styn, which you’ll be first to agree
    Was not one of your better moments, what?.

  495. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 12:02 am said:

    Nick: I suspect that you may have got the wrong Harkness in your confirmation bias quest. Your mistake is perhaps excusable in that Jessie E. and Jessica E. May sound similar to some but not to the naming parents. I recall a Harkness living at Clifton gardens of all places which I thought likely to be Alf Boxall’s young army nurse. Turns out she was army but not a nurse and was a daughter of the NSW Premier’s private secretary. Anyone can make simple mistakes Nick but you’ll mind that it is certainly a caution against jumping to false conclusions. Our Jo is Jessica not Jessie as per the ’46 graduation notice and this is clearly evident in her Prov. Estate notice and on her grave, both of 2007.

  496. John Sanders: you claim that the Royal North Shore Hospital was never used for convalescing ex POWs period. Have you taken into consideration the thousands of liberated and demobbed POWs who suffered ongoing illnesses – some of whom lived in Sydney?
    Are you saying they were denied treatment at the RNS?

  497. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 3:49 am said:

    Anyone not afflicted with uncurable information bias syndrome might now like to ponder the ramifications of the almost certain pre conceived contingency planning behind the RNSH Jessie E. Harkness fake trail ruse. A nice one played on the cops and news hounds and latter day sloths alike all having been made easy targets for jessica’s fake RNSH nursing credentials claim, backed by a similarly named 1946 graduate which would pass muster if checked and which still makes some of us look rather foolish.

  498. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 4:09 am said:

    ….Confirmation of information bias to be precise.

  499. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 6:49 am said:

    It seems that Len Brown made the best of his police career of forty years and rising to the dizzy heights of Detective Superintendent would be considered metioric when you compared with the likes of his former partner R.L. Leane and historical fiction writer G. Feltus, neither òf whom got above Snr. Sergeant after their forty years of grafting in the Adelaide dens of morbidity, murder and mayhem. Browny was also the man that almost gave the game away in 1978 just prior to retirement, when he dropped the clanger about a suitcase “…..that we found in the ‘railway refreshment’ uh uh cloakroom”, then words to the effect that witnesses Gordon & Olive were parked in a car at Somerton, not to mention police calling X3239 and Sister Thomson answering. Numerous other interesting snippets that obviously have been diced for favour of a better story line can be found in the top detective’s record of interview. I’m sure that the fifty that he took for the appearance would have ensured a propensity to be generally truthful with Littlemore. So I’m happy with the alternate and more realistic refreshment room deal, with suitcase later lodged securely in the cloakroom and documented without issue of collection stub of course.

  500. John Sanders: it was published in 1988, back when we all had hair and knew basically nothing about the Somerton Man.

  501. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 9:31 am said:

    Yes Peteb, I can make the claim because it is true and varifiable. At war’s end 113 repatriation hospital was the biggest in the southern hemisphere followed closely by 116 in Melbourne and whatsmore these centres swallowed up all the returning POWs or put them into special trauma care facilities without need to swamp the general civilian hospitals with wounded diggers, nut cases and mallingerers which would have overburdoned the system and created medical mayhem. Additional convalescent units were also available throughout Australia and as you’d be aware from regular recent contact, Paul Lawson worked at one in the top end until ’46. Alf Boxall would certainly not have gotten any treatment at RNSH in 1945 before his departure for the islands nor upon his return or later, being an eligible returned man entitled free treatment at Concord Repat. Hospital. Hope I’ve been helpful.

  502. Tamara Bunke on September 27, 2020 at 10:19 am said:

    It’s a secondary source, Nick šŸ˜‰

    Cramer will assimilate it into his “litter” theory imminently.

    ā€œ[…] Muddying pools, poisoning wells maybe. […] Pulling the rug out.ā€, as Percy Alleline put it.

  503. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 11:04 am said:

    Perhaps you knew nothing in 88 Nick; I knew flamming all, having based my SM knowledge on a couple of lectures at the Manly Police College and Manly Vale Hotel given by ex Sapol Det. Errol Canney in 73/74, by then a Compol Super. and full of great stories from his past including his partnership with ‘Verbal’ Kelly, Byron’s alltime favorite copper. I’ve also still got my hair thanks to Grecian.

  504. John Sanders: I’m pleased to hear that your hair is as intact as your hopes for solving this cold case. Though possibly both are more coloured than is entirely necessary. :-p

    Back in 1988, what was publicly known about the case would (in my opinion) have been able to fit on the back of envelope (or perhaps a particularly small Rubaiyat).

  505. If I had a dog that yapped as much as you do, John Sanders, I’d sell him to one of the Casino second-hand car yards … chuck them a bone and they’ll bark all night.

    And to put this into context .. it’s a little known fact that Jessica Harkness had a small poodle named Jake that she kept until 1946 before giving it away to a colleague named Judith Iscamabob, a fellow nurse who left Australia in 1953 to follow the zionist path where unfortunately she died within sight of the pyramids after falling off the lead camel of a string led by Abudazziz Abudaazij of Ethopia, whose father led the southern Tripoli Brigade in a battle against the infidel led secessionists wherein he earned the medal of Supreme Accomplishment for attempting to castrate one of the camels that were proving useful in Libya’s defence of it’s northern African borders.
    Man, this is so easy I might just make a habit of it.

    Hey Tamara … how you doin?

  506. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 12:13 pm said:

    Absolutely nothing was going down connecting the nurse or the lieutenant to any part of the police investigation beyond Mrs. Thomson’s two days of glory, but which fizzled with Alf Boxall turning up alive and well, to the best of my memory. Perhaps truth of the matter may be gauged from nothing coming of the 1958 inquest in which police had nothing new to offer. That only changed about the time of the ’78 doco which I never saw, but in which the postie got going about ’72 with his press exclusive in the Mirror, then it carried over from there to Munro’s Inside story deal. Even my ‘Mystery of the Sands’ book chapter title of 2006 lays out the investigation pretty well with nothing but the known facts, followed by the Sapol Hue & Cry article which claimed no knowledge of our two main characters.

  507. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 1:20 pm said:

    Nick: The only colours I’m interested in are primary colours if you get my drift. By the way, as Mr. Lawson so elequently interjected to put Stuart on notice “you’re on tender ground” to suggest otherwise. My quest is primarily to identify SM, how he died whither and whence. I’ll leave the accomanying not factual extras to those more concerned with hearsay, inuendo and self serving hyperbole if you please.

  508. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 2:12 pm said:

    Some kind soul might like to throw old Bonzo a bone. Poor dog doesn’t seem to know which way is home.

  509. Have you ever searched for a Jessie E Harkness? I did. I only found two mentions of her. I searched for her with the objective of proving that she wasn’t our Jessica. I could not.

    The first place she appears is in the Appendix – Graduates of the school of Nursing. There, she appears in the 1946 graduation year as “Harkness, Jessie E”.

    The second place I found her was in a 1943 electoral roll. There she appears as:

    Name: Jessie Ellen Harkness
    Gender: Female
    Electoral Date: 1943
    Electoral Place: Artarmon, North Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

    So we now have a Jessie ELLEN. If one views the listing for her, it says:

    “Harkness, Jessie Ellen, R.N.S. Hospital, St. Leonard’s, nurse F”

  510. milongal on September 27, 2020 at 10:54 pm said:

    @JS re Brown and the refreshing cloakroom….

    Pretty sure that’s more to do with his knowledge of the railway station than any sort of slip up. AFAIK (happy to be corrected), the Cloak Room used to be on the right hand side as you come down the ramp from North Tce (behind what was Donut King in the 90s, but not sure what it is now). Later I think that area was converted to a refreshments area (and the area on the opposite side of the ramp was toilets). At different times that has shifted around, and later again I think TransAdelaide had offices (or at least Lost Property) in there (before I think most of there stuff moved to Roma Mitchell House, and their operations eventually onto the station concourse itself.

    So to me that sort of slip up could be more indicative of the mind mixing up 1970’s railway station vs 1940s railway station.

  511. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 11:09 pm said:

    Just say my name was Nicholas, but generally known by its short form Nick. But of course when it comes down to officizl documents, passport, driving licence or voting registrar &c., of my birth registration long form of Nicholas would take preceidence as a legal identity. I’d say that when Jessie Ellen Harkness went to vote and when her RNSH registration was recorded, she went by the name on her birth certificate which is unlikely to have been Jessica for mine. I’ll cheerfully stand corrected.

  512. john sanders on September 27, 2020 at 11:48 pm said:

    Back to those darned sox Nick ho hum. Well perhaps the first list of suitcase contents failed to record any simply due to oversight and the mistake was not picked up. I have seen a list on a rather impressive pre Feltus SM site (Crypto????) where three pairs were recorded so where did that come from. We can also see amongst the scattered belongings a more recent pic of a neatly folded pair that the majority of punters might insist were taken off our SM post mortem. Who would be so fussy with sox coming off dead man’s feet I’d submit as a counter, and by the way in the days before plastic ziplocks, sox came in handy to keep small items such as jewellry, cuff links and collar studs and coins &c., from going astray.

  513. milongal on September 28, 2020 at 2:58 am said:

    All this talk of Harkness raises a thought…..
    Surely he who has married himself into the case should have access to her Graduate Certificate (or whatever the qualification would be). Of course, not everyone proudly keeps their qualifications, many do proudly display their quals either in an office or at home – so wouldn’t it be worth digging through her belongings? Absence of such a certificate doesn’t prove anything, but presence of one would immediately either resolve or disprove whether Jessie is Jessica.

    NB: I tend to go by a shortened version of my name (let’s say “Mil” for now if “Milongal” were my real monicker) in almost everything I do, yet every qualification certificate I have (and even relatively minor ones) tend to my name based on my enrolment, originally based on my formal id (usually drivers licence and/or birth certificate, sometimes passport). As I recall, all my employers have always had my “correct” name on record, and while they would refer to me by nickname in conversations, any paperwork from them would always show my correct full name (granted I’m a generation or 2 later than those times, but in my experience it’s difficult to use a pseudonym in studies etc – so to me “Jessie” suggests “Jessie” not “Jessica” when it’s in a graduation list that (presumably) was taken from an official listing….

  514. john sanders on September 28, 2020 at 3:34 am said:

    Potentially gamechanging news courtesy of ace researcher Peteb, now on target for discovery of an intelligence office secreted somewhere within that huge military sprawl on Sydney’s northern shore called Georges Head. Well spotted Bonzo and as you say just around the corner from Chowder Bay and Alf Boxall’s domain. Other nearby places of most interest to SM sportsfans, Ashton Park fake suicide drop, RNSH & nurses rendezvous garden, then Neutral Bay, Castle Crag and Mosman for the estates of Messrs.Thomson, Hendon and Wake to name just three of our numerous co-conspirators, all so cosily and conveniently ensconsed for clandestine work as Cramer has been telling true believers like Peteb for ages.
    NB: Note the distinction between Georges Head and another huge WW2 military encampment at Georges Hall with it’s big American hospital, Royal Air Force depot and SME up the creek where Boxall and his Water Transport unit trained until early 1945, also where agent provocateur Major William Jestyn Moulds OBE attended an island invasion course prior to his seaborn landing on Morotai in May ’45.

  515. john sanders on September 28, 2020 at 6:16 am said:

    Some pretty standout questions arise in the alleged Boxall/Harkness story:-
    Sister Thomson was out in her timing for the ROK gift to Boxall of 6 to 12mths.
    Boxall was at sea & likely not contactable by his gift giver between 8/45 – 10/46.
    Sister Thomson’s ‘the same’ & ‘similar’ ROK descriptions in 7/49 not too accurate.
    Boxall spoke of ‘Jestyn’ as very young, shy, French and possibly an Army nurse.
    Sister Thomson was 24/5 in July, 1945, not Army nor un petit jeune fille Francaise.
    Boxall was at Georges Head only 2 months. Too short to mess with local fluff?
    Sister Thomson got potted in 10/46 at RNSH. All trainee urses have contingencies.
    Boxall RTA’d in late ’46 to be with Suzie, his daughter and baby Leslie not Jestyn.
    Sister Thomson’s (Jestyn?) pal Joy left WT Inst. Hubby & returned to SA in late ’46.
    Boxall in ’78 seemed not to recall much ado about his mid ’45 liason with ‘Jestyn’.
    Sister Thomson told cops that Boxall aka SM may have came a calling in late 11/48.
    Boxall told cops emphatically he’d never been to SA before his WW2 service.
    Sister Thomson was at 90A Moseley address latest early 1947. See ’47 directory.
    Boxall’s accurate service history makes no mention of hospitalisation at RNSH.
    SisterThomson was sure that her fake? story line would pass muster. How so?

    That’ll do for starters; Anyone including Bonzo like to continue the inquisition; go ahead, make my day!

  516. Pavlovpete on September 28, 2020 at 7:14 am said:

    You know, Sanders, if I was to sit on my duff all day like you do and not put anything up for discussion your life would change. You see, reactionaries have to REACT … like a dog does when it hears a noise. That’s when we get the yap yap f.cking yap.
    Sincerely.

  517. john sanders on September 28, 2020 at 7:32 am said:

    milongal: How should one respond to another’s better knowledge of a place I’ve only seen from the outside. Agreed Superintendent Brown was surely confused when stretching his memory bank on alternating layouts of Adelaide Station over the years. I suppose he was similarly confused as to what form of transort eye witnesses Strapps & Olive used on the evening of 3/11 to attend the death scene. And not overlooking Len’s apparent forgetting what he told Stuart earlier about being transferred to other duties before the book came to light on 19/7/49. Being quite certain that a Glenelg woman was Identified simply by calling the number he had found written thereupon in tiny writing; Not through tracing which was illegal and quite unecessary for any half smart cop. Give the man his due, he didn’t slip up too badly when asked by Stuart if he made the call, “ah, ah, No not me mate” or some suitable cop out.

  518. Did I miss something? I have been on and off this board for a while. Did we/someone find some officizl documents for Jessie/Jessica? Her passport, driving licence, voting registrar or birth registration?

  519. john sanders on September 28, 2020 at 10:58 am said:

    Far to neat and contrived for mine. Bonzo Bowes Ikea book shelf loaded with his great conasseurs edition favourite tomes you’d reckon eh?..Yeah well look again; the books are all generally of the same dimensions fore and aft, evidence of fake book facades once available Angus & Robertson with your choice of titles and authors. Compare his nibs’ with Alf Boxall’s humble living room honest man’s collection; hardwood shelves with a good mix of interesting titles ie., Long River (Darling) and Lawson’s essential ‘While the Billy Boils’, along with the usual hard cover Reader’s Digest condensed volumes. All well kept but and obviously well read, something our literary imposter wouldn’t appreciate. Most of my Maughams, Greene’s and Betty Sydney’s etc., are safely in storage in a big trunk under canvas up the back of my hovel, pages still dry enough to show many a former owner’s study notes. There’s also the odd hastily written interruption phone number on the back end face page, penciled in tiny writing that may later have been copied on to a police running sheet and left for others to ponder over.

  520. Misca: there’s basically zero on her afaik. I’ve often wondered not only why that should be, but also why Derek Abbott has said basically nothing on the subject.

    …unless someone knows better?

  521. Isn’t Derek Abbott’s wife, Rachel Egan, the paternal granddaughter of JEstyn?

  522. john sanders on September 28, 2020 at 10:08 pm said:

    All to easy Nick. A week back I mentioned the group conspiracy calling themselves Inner Sanctum, started by up by Feltus, our other Unknown Man about 2011 which included a selection of nominated worthies such as some that I had tentatively nominated, the likes of Abbott, Cramer & Co. In the years since their bust up, due to differences between Gerry, Derek and egotistical bridges, we latter day SM minnows have accordingly not been privy to their discussed topics of any known consequence. Reason being that at the time of their formation a secrecy pact with legal default clause inset was likely drawn up and Sworn to with a term validation which all the boyos signed up to. So in the interim, nothing from Elliott, Lawson, Ruffles or any of those above named, all but Derek who broke silence on Jestyn and Gordon who broke wind. If you don’t mind me saying so, we are not a band of brothers and are mostly not up to speed with such institutions and their enduring connotations for those selected few. Try if you will, to think of similar enduring ratbag institution with their white tie nights, black folders, trick handshakes and you’ll twig to what I’m so inellequently on about.

  523. john sanders on September 28, 2020 at 10:29 pm said:

    Misca: What we did find, though it was never lost, was the 1936 wedding certificate of Prosper and Queenie which included a witness Harley Burch who turned out to be an American family crime boss, into loan sharking, stand over door to door merchandising thouhgout Australasia (NZ) since 1923. He or one of his brothers was surely the overseer mentioned in Prosper’s WA forgery charges of 1938. A few years back such a disclosure would have been considered monumentous, but times have changed and obviously Prosper Thomson has ceased to be an SM name of consequence, for it didn’t get a mention here.

  524. misca: do we happen to know Jessica Harkness’ birthday?

    We’re told (e.g. on her gravestone) that she was born in 1921 in the Sydney suburb of Marrickville (and this may well be true). But has anyone gone looking in the BDM for everyone called Jessica (or Jessica Ellen) born in Marrickville in 1921 (particularly if we happen to know her birthday)?

    I don’t think Marrickville in 1921 would have had that many births, so that can’t be a hugely long list, right?

  525. milongal on September 29, 2020 at 12:14 am said:

    @NP: NSW BDM has a 100 year lag for births. We can’t look for her until next year through that channel

  526. milongal on September 29, 2020 at 12:31 am said:

    I sort of agree that DA’s silence on Jessica/Jessie is interesting (as per above, JS and I seem to agree that a nursing record would be unlikely to show a nickname – so “Jessie” was presumably on some formal paperwork somewhere…..), and it’s worth noting the Centennial Park record for her burial has “Jessica”.
    I do seem to recall there having been some generational falling out, so it’s possible that they have never seen any of Jessica’s docs.

    All of that being said, some online material (not overly reliable, necessarily) seems to imply she was born Jessie and may have become Jessica later (specifically referring to her as Jessie with her maiden name, but Jessica with her married name).
    e.g. Timenote notes: “Jestyn’s real identity, Jessica ā€œJoā€ Thomson (nĆ©e Jessie Ellen Harkness, b. 1921 – d. 2007), finally became public. She was generally known as Jess Harkness, and then after 1947 as Jo Thomson.”

    So perhaps marriage was a point she decided Jessica was a more grown up name for her (and perhaps it’s an easy time to update name details since her surname is changing anyway).

    Trying to dig up a discussion from way back when where we went an chased a Jess(ica|ie) E(llen) Harkness – also a nurse (in regional SA) who turned out to be a couple of years older and demonstrably not Jestyn…..

  527. According to “Makara” on websleuths: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/australia-tamam-shud-case-male-dec-1948.67163/page-7#post-10122510

    Most birth records in Australia have a privacy limitation, which vary from state to state. In NSW we are able to access birth records up to 1913, so there is basically a 100 year embargo on birth records. However there are other ways to calculate a date of birth. There is only a 50 year privacy limitation on marriages in NSW. A marriage record will (in most cases) state the ages of both parties. There is only a 30 year privacy limitation on death records in NSW and once again the age of the deceased is almost always listed. This information is obviously reliant on the informant on the death certificate and how well they knew the deceased. And then there is Trove and the National Archives. Both wonderful resources to help fill in the blanks of genealogical research.

    Jessica Harkness’ parents were Thomas Lawson Harkness and Ellen Lee. They married in Western Australia in 1916. They had at least five children.

    * Thomas Jnr. b. 1917 Victoria Australia.
    * Edmund. b. 1919. Victoria Australia.
    * Jessica. b. 1921. Marrickville, Sydney NSW Australia.
    * Jean. b. 1923 NSW Australia.
    * Ellen. b. 1928 NSW Australia.

    There is a five year gap between Jean and Ellen so there may have been another child born within this time frame that I’m yet to discover.

    Makara also offers up more on Prosper’s family here: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/australia-tamam-shud-case-male-dec-1948.67163/page-9#post-10246851

    Sadly, that 2014 thread got somewhat hijacked by XLamb, but that’s how things were back then.

  528. milongal: wasn’t that a Jessie May Harkness?

  529. Nick – We don’t know her actual birth day. I (and assume many others) have been looking for her birth certificate for many years. I have done all manner of search for it and have not found it. Either her family does not know it either or they prefer to keep it confidential or they would have included it on her gravestone. Her sister’s bc are not available online either. Which I have to say, is quite unusual given the time that has passed. By now, bc’s in the 1920’s are generally “findable”.

    Harley Raymond Burch had a missing tip of his index finger of his left hand. Something that was noted on his WWII Draft Registration Card. So, I think we can eliminate him as a candidate.

  530. john sanders on September 29, 2020 at 1:39 am said:

    Nick: No she was Jessie Read Harkness 1900-85 Balaclava..As for Jessica’s DOB; if you care to check back to earlier this month, maybe on another thread header, I’m sure you’ll come up with the one I posted. Whether It’s correct or not, I have no idea but I agree that Misca could work with it better than we all.

  531. john sanders on September 29, 2020 at 5:30 am said:

    This is merely an ambitious ploy to stimulate renewed interest in the SM inqiry based solely on a confirmed Link between our man Prosper and the notorious Burch family of American style co conspiratorial shysters and employers of thugs to run their debt default service. There as been a noticeable waining of interest in this case of late, in which case the following recent research data might serve to rekindle the flames of desire and hope eternal existing in the few stalwarts who might just be pursuaded to give it one last chance for fame or at the very least, a face saving outcome to wit the Somerton Beach man’s identity etc.

    New Zealand arrival records reveal that the Burch clan from Scott City Kansas were well known flim flam merchants, including the USA ,were every bit as connected to Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch as they were to all the Australian state capitals and regional centres. There are many recorded (once important) Tasman crossings from 1925 involving all the family members ie. Harley, his Australian born wife Ivy (Crichton) and child Beverley Anne, brothers Elva and Leland along with their NZ & Aust. born spouses Margaret and Mary. Being tied in to a high turnover domestic door to door art scam empire and knowing that Whitcome & Tombs were wholesale suppliers in that field, it is likely that the family also dealt in book sales and greeting cards. Some of the Burch ‘Empire Art’ sales were probably generated by mail order so pocket books such as the various Courage & Friendship titles that came with post envelopes would have been easy to bring into Australia by family members then sent to their local D/D drummers…Any body interested?.

  532. john sanders on September 29, 2020 at 6:59 am said:

    Misca: We eliminated Harley Raymond Burch several months back as a candidate, subsequent to his having been found along with his wife and two brothers safely tucked away in Las Animas Co. General Cemetery. Though because of his known connection to an SM murder suspect called zprosper Thomson, he and his dead kinfolk can’t claim indemnity because of that otherwise possibly mitigating factor.

  533. john sanders on September 29, 2020 at 8:22 am said:

    Nick: I did find the posts from 17th &18th inst. refering to Tom Harkness Snr’s liquidity problem and birth of Jessica & Joan in Newcastle (Maryville) etc. but it seems I did not include an actual day date in ’21 for Jo. I’ll have to check my original source which isn’t possible just now, though it should present no problems directly.

  534. I’d like to add my two-bobs worth here but find the thread title a little too demeaning for my prognostications.

  535. john sanders on September 29, 2020 at 12:59 pm said:

    Peteb: By the way your slip is showing Kerrie Leigh and what’s more there appear to be traces of more than slight soiling a foot or two above the hem; to use J. B. Clelands polite jargonistic Keane suitcase contents phrasiology.

    Away from that, and were you aware that Det. Leane and I shared something in common, we being fair to muddling ‘lock-em-up’ street suits where paper work was not looked upon as essential to getting the job done and dusted.

    That all could explain to some degree, our SM biograper’s inability to track down the murder book which might give better portrayal of relevant police enquiry details, instead relying upon hearsay press releases from Scan the man.

  536. john sanders on September 29, 2020 at 1:24 pm said:

    Nick & Misca: I had found 18/2/21 some time back, though at the time I smelled a rat due mainly to the proliferation of other dubious personal details on the net. Based on Alf Boxall’s assertions that his ‘Jestyn’ character was very young in response to Livermore’s suggested 25 in mid ’45, I’d advance the DOB by a year to say 19/3/22 perhaps. I’d also go with Newcastle suburbia for the POB ie. Maryville as opposed to Sydney’s Marrickville, simply due to a perceived false lead scenario and because that’s where her family lived through most of the twenties.

  537. john sanders on September 30, 2020 at 1:40 am said:

    Peteb: It wasn’t too demeaning for you back on 11/12/18 when you determined that by introducing such topics as the D-OUOSVAVV-M code on Misc. Stuff, was the proper place for an angry Intellectual to postulate and vent his spleen. My own reasons for using the site initially was to make ‘snide’ responses to friend Gordon Cramer’s non Tamam Shud discussions on ships passing in the night and military aircraft design features etc. I certainly don’t feel demeaned using this site unless it relates to certain disturbing elements I’m having to share it with.

  538. john sanders on September 30, 2020 at 6:45 am said:

    Adelaide Advertiser 27/9/39 in it’s Undesirable form of bluff article relates to a company known as Empire Art, trading as Universal Dept Collection, 100 William St. Sydney attempting to obtain benefit by fraud. This is just one of many known cases of an international scam and extortion racket run by such as the brothers Burch ie., Harley (Dr.), Elva and Leland out of Kansas who, by employing rural travelers, some unwitting, some nit so, as agents to perpetuate their scam on gullible country folk all over. Perhaps our man Somerton was one of their portrait reproduction sales people who got wind of the rort and either threatened exposure or got in on the scam to make a better commission. Of course he may well have been representative of a like enterprise and whose take down was used to send a plain message for them to find other business. I can think of supporting evidence like the collection of ties, the newish coat shirts for use as portrait decor and of course template or frame adjusting tools (including mini coping saw) found in the Keane suitcase.

  539. john sanders on September 30, 2020 at 8:52 am said:

    In 1946 the Melbourne distribution house for Whitcom & Tombes Co. books was located at 332 Collins St. Just a short distance down from 258 a premises formerly leased by the notorious Burch brothers and managed by Clarinda Mary Burch wife of Leland Glen Burch. Leland the youngest brother and WW1 veteran was known to Adelaide police from a riotous court appearance in 1928 involving an evidence bag full of primed explosives. Anyway I’ve already touted the possibility that the family’s frequent travels to NZ may have been for liason with W & T courage and friendship (ROK) re distribution rights in rural Australia.

  540. Just this once .. I have to hand it to you, Johnno, you might be a pain in the arse, but in reality there’s not many who have your staying power in this case. Visit Prof A’s FB site and they’re discussing whether the bloke was poisoned by a someone soaking his jocks in cyanide, or something … Cramer is writing the history of Commie influence in Aus and our generous host here has given up the ghost .. Now don’t think this means I want to be your best mate, that’s never going to happen, but as I say .. you are one dogged old bastard

  541. john sanders on September 30, 2020 at 2:04 pm said:

    Peteb: I can honestly say that I have no problem with your latest piece of wisdom, even your reference to the dogeared old bastard bit. My mum was a Dee Why girl, adored the yanks, despised the nips and all who knew her said what a great sport good old Shirley was in the 40s…Back to the business though; those other bastard members of the former old boys fraternal order, most certainly still have in their possession vital evidence, obtained illegally from Sapol during the so called ‘spring cleaning’ of ’82 and should be either held to account for it, or given indemnity for passing it over post haste to those who best know how to test it’s mettle.

  542. JS – Where did you “find” 18/2/21? And how based on “Alf Boxall’s assertions” do you jump to “19/3/22 perhaps”? And how do you float around different “POB” based “simply due to a perceived false lead scenario”? WTF does your post even mean? Are you expecting everyone to be on here 24/7 following everything you write? You seem quite articulate and knowledgeable. It would be very helpful if you could also take the time to be concise and clear.

  543. john sanders on October 1, 2020 at 4:39 am said:

    OK! All in all we’re not doing so badly here of late; the Solomonson (sic) ID by the Kabara? patient at a Glenelg pub, The missing German ship deserter’s full handle and a resolution to Nick’s white tie affair which was an enterting side show. What we dearly need for an encore is a name for the missing stable hand and the horse he rode in on, in order to get a short half head (shd) clear of the field.

  544. john sanders on October 1, 2020 at 8:15 am said:

    Misca: In re your capacity as a fee paying conduit to a host of genialogical search engines, I for one am most grateful for your most helpful efforts in the past. No doubt you are good at your work as most would concede, only wishing I had your expertise and capacity, but each to their own. The techniques that I use to do skip trace checks comes not from any tool that I’m aware of, though they often produce results, as in the case of Jessica Ellen Harkness. My given background advice of late fits well enough, if not better in my opinion than presumptions based on hearsay reported over the years, none of which ever came up with anything concrete. My latest posts on her birthday comes from Gerry Feltus I believe and most of my knowledge of a Thomas Lawson Harkness’ work as a self employed electrical line contractor in Newcastle through the twenties is from trove newspapers of the period that provides his two addresses. I hasten to say that my previous report with reference to Alf Boxall’s thoughts on his nurses young age, hence a possible alternate date of birth, would not present difficulties to those who are familiar with my oft tangled words of wisdom.

  545. I found a manifest of the whole family travelling – returning from a trip to Italy. In one listing she is listed as shown here:

    Name: Jessi Thomson
    Departure Place: Genoa, Italy
    Arrival Date: 29 Oct 1962
    Arrival Place: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia
    Vessel: Flavia

    Interesting that her name is spelt without an e. I would imagine that the information is transcribed from passports.

    On another manifest for the same trip, the entire family is listed with first initials only. Prosper’s age is listed as 50. Jessie’s as 41, Robin as 15 and Kate as 12.

  546. john sanders on October 1, 2020 at 10:40 pm said:

    Misca: Yes. You, milongal and I had somethings to say about this Genoa trip two or or three years back. I had picked it up on NAA passengrr arrivals and I’m sure I wasn’t the first because it was on the family’s return from there long stay in UK which in fact I spoke about on this very thread a week or two back. Thanks anyway It’s nice to have back up.

  547. I thought we had talked about it! So much info, so long ago. Well, helpful to have it again when trying to confirm name and age.

    I find it very difficult to search the Cipher site. I asked Nick if we could organize information differently a long time ago. Grateful that at least we have this as a spot to discuss but a shame that we can’t easily access information that has already been covered.

  548. john sanders on October 2, 2020 at 3:30 am said:

    Peteb: I detected a note of irony in Clive Turner/Walker’s latest suggestion that our man may have been caught trespassing on Prosper’s territory in whatever crooked venture he was engaged. There can be little doubt that the latter had been known to Harley Burch, so likely working for ‘Empire Art’ and ‘Universal Debt Recovery’ as a drummer & collecter with a set piece of assigned turf for himself. Just such a locality would be Clive’s ‘Waterloo’; Slap bang in the guts of the so called Kapunda triangle, only two hours from Adelaide, with it’s Prosper-ous rural landholdings being prime targets of the of flim flammers and always ripe for plucking by a man with wheels.

  549. john sanders on October 2, 2020 at 11:45 am said:

    It does seem quite clear that Jessi is the diminitive form of Jessica as opposed to Jessie which is a complete name of itself. It’s also most interesting that Jean and Jessica in Scotland are of a common derivation, but in our case moreso because our Jessica had a sister Jean born 1923, who you’ll surely recall as J. Harkness the under 12 sack race winner in the Cheltenham team for 1935. Ellen Mary was the younger sister born 1928 which thus presents a name conundrum of sorts for me at least. Could it suggest that mum and dad picked the names Jean and Ellen to remind them of Jessica Ellen, the daughter they had to give up at birth through poverty which is not unlikely.

  550. I think it’s more likely that she was born “Jessie” given that she had both an Aunt and Grandmother with the same name. She may have preferred Jessica and could have formally changed her name later or not. (If she converted to Judaism, she could have taken Jessica as her name and formalized it.).

    For example, Jessie’s mother was born “Nellie” and died “Ellen” on her formal documents. It happens.

    I have no skin in the game either way but try to keep all of this mind when searching.

    The “Jo” bit makes no sense to me at all as it’s usually a diminutive for either Joanne or Jean…Neither of which were her name.

    Her sister Jean was Jean Moir Harkness (GF John Moir) so not a big stretch…She apparently went by “Jenny”.

    Ellen/May/Mary – There are Ellen’s on both sides. Not so surprising.

  551. john sanders on October 3, 2020 at 3:45 am said:

    Any punters prepared to take a stab as to whither whence presence of the Sony Trinitron computer monitor in the background of the Keane suitcase colour picture htp://d6jf304m27oxw.cloudfront.net/mystery-of-somerton-man-the-tamam-shud-case/somerton-man-suitcase.jpo . While at it you might care to make comment on the other probably post ’82 spring cleaning objects also present ie. a bundle of 100cm slim line neon tubes, a red outboard marine fuel container and what looks to b a small spring steel saw frame with used blade inset, plus a blue auto oil filter canister amongst the tools and ties. This is your final chance of making the finals.

  552. john sanders on October 3, 2020 at 8:44 am said:

    Misca: I liked your fair and logical preference for the RNSH Jessie name, allbeit accompanied perhaps by a degree of confirmation bias derived from reliable ‘Tamam Shud Historically Known Facts’ for which to test the well stirred pot. I’d say no better or worse than my modest contrary views, although I feel that mine may tip the odds with some most convincing evidence from my own research which I doubt that the TSHKF team knew existed in the Jean/Jessica/Jessie link. I wonder did you ever give consideration to the alternative that Jo’s sister Ellen Mary may have been named for Newcastle’s Maryville maternity hospital and not past family members as you suspect?..

  553. Tamara Bunke on October 3, 2020 at 1:19 pm said:

    John, you’re going to have to type that link out again – and carefully this time. I’ve tried it with “http” and “.jpg” and still no dice.

  554. john sanders on October 3, 2020 at 2:07 pm said:

    Worth bringing up again I guess. On Victorian provisional wills and probates, we have both a Jessica Ellen Thomson and Ellen Jessie Thomson from 2007/8, neither showing up in Melbourne cemetery records. Jessica has Hamilton listed alongside her entry and Camberwell for Ellen, Hamilton being a city in Victoria, but is also second city of Newcastle NSW. Camberwell is a suburb of Melbourne and the only othet detail tells us that Jessie was retired. So it’s likely that first mentioned Jessica is our girl who died at Hamilton (probably Vic) and recorded as being interred in Centenial Park, Adelaide.

  555. john sanders on October 3, 2020 at 11:23 pm said:

    Tamara: I don’t usually do that http.jpg stuff. I copied it from Nick’s post of 17th June 2016 12.55 @ The Tamam Shud Was A Proof Of Identity thread which works.

  556. Yeah. Not the only other detail. There’s one more important detail…The “reverse” Ellen Jessie died on the 14th of July.

  557. “I wonder did you ever give consideration to the alternative that Jo’s sister Ellen Mary may have been named for Newcastle’s Maryville maternity hospital and not past family members as you suspect?..”

    Um. No.

    Honestly, I don’t think that the Harkness’ choice to name Jessie’s sister Ellen Mary after the institution she may have been born in will, in any way, lead us to determining who SM was.

    If you think proving that they may have been living in Newcastle could lead us there…Please show us the way! No one is disputing that they may have lived there. One can search trove and see that they did.

  558. You obviously have a subscription or access to someone who does. Why even post such a deliberately stupid red herring? Like people are on here biting their nails wondering if Jessica Ellen and Ellen Jessica could be confused for one another? Really? No one is wondering or knowing about these things. Just you, your paid-for genealogist and me fact-checking your bullshit. Why do you spend so much time adding to the confusion?

  559. Why is this “worth bringing up again”? It’s ridiculous and stupid and easily put down. Why are you doing this?

  560. john sanders on October 4, 2020 at 4:28 am said:

    Royal North Shore Hospital wasn’t such a big joint, about 300 beds in ’47 when it was given some serious credential by becoming a nurses teaching hospital. Better still, from the mid thirties it had adopted Sister Mary Kenny’s revolutionary Polio treating method by opening it’s dedicated child paralysis unit. RNSH being at the forefront in the field was thence accorded international acclaim which of course could not harm the career opportunities to any nurse that could boast of having been ‘imbedded’ there during those heady days…’She remembered giving a similar copy of the Rubaiyat to an army lieutenant about three and a half years ago whilst a nurse at Royal North Shore Hospital’ so said the press..Why need bring up RNSH? and don’t say because it is reasonably close to Clifton Gardens Hotel, so are plenty of other hospitals. I’d suggest our nurse was just as likely to have been putting on aires in much the same manner that she elevated herself to Sister J E Thomson for her X3239 number, just one more bald face lie by my reckoning and it’s likey they didn’t rest there.

  561. john sanders on October 4, 2020 at 5:18 am said:

    Peteb: You’re assuming that the folded pair in SC contents pic were from the body. I won’t concede that for obvious reasons ie. who folds dead man’s socks. Besides maybe ours wasn’t in the habit of wearing them apart from funerals and the like. You’d have to be familiar with Jack Reacher; shoulders like Somerton man and tall as Pavel Fedisimov who never wore socks after he left Iraq and nobody thought it was suspicious in the slightest. Your latest thread sucks mofo.

  562. john sanders on October 4, 2020 at 8:51 am said:

    Tamara: Guess you found the full frame suitcase shot by now, Meantime I’ve been checking other sites with the same photo and found five or six all obviously done off one original which I think was taken at least twenty years after the suitcase was last seen by Sapol. Interestingly, the only three places I can’t find it are in the SM Ebook by Gerry Feltus, Derek Abbott’s old web sight and the one belonging to Gordon Cramer, all inaugural members of Inner Sanctum as it turns out. A couple of points that I witheld due to their being of lesser importance, are background items such as a piece of interesting white styrofoam board and a black rectangular object with wheels resembling a modern suitcase. I also notice that the two light tubes are attached to a wall mount. I’m relying on your evaluation comrade, to verify the time element discrepency and such, all my previous attempts to bring out this factor having gone unoticed, by less vigilant & inquiring minds perhaps.

  563. john sanders on October 4, 2020 at 10:54 am said:

    Misca: I’m a tad disapointed in your wrongful assertion that there could be someone researching genealogy on my behalf for money. In the past I have put my trust only in the thee to guide me through the mire of family relativity; you were always my reliable pipline through the mire and mystique of those old family links. No problem though I have the time and energy to dig up a few old graves on my pat malone, if there be the mere chance of some new and relevant discovery coming to light. So thanks for all your help in the past and who knows?, a little more persistance with Jessie Harkness’ Marrickville birth details and graduation at RNSH might be rewarded, thereby giving your success rate of late, a much needed boost!….

  564. mofo – generic US slang for motherfucker. Nice moderating Dome.

  565. peteb: there’s plenty I do moderate out, which is a process almost as tiresome as receiving comments complaining about what I let through.

  566. Tamara Bunke on October 4, 2020 at 2:10 pm said:

    John, I found the image from the 2018 thread. I can’t see some of the objects you mention. Very difficult to date the picture on the basis of what is visible. I suspect the link shows a crop. I was a little struck by how digital the image looks, but I’m no expert.

    Perhaps you could mark up the image with what you consider to be the suspect items?

  567. john sanders on October 4, 2020 at 2:57 pm said:

    Tamara: Right on the money and I was confident you’d find an open door without promting if anyone could. What we need to do is get Nick to use his invasive tools to look through the top repro pixels and see what’s lurking beneath. If the photo was taken after 2000 or so chances are that a digital camera was used and if there be pixels present we’ve evidence to give Sapol about likely unlawful possession of police evidence. There is another similar colour photo that I suspect to be of the same late vintage and which might tell a similar story and the combination of both might just serve to flush a co conspirator or two out of hiding. Of course even if a film camera was used, we still have other good means to make the case worth pursuing.

  568. Tamara Bunke on October 4, 2020 at 3:24 pm said:

    Nick, do you have a view on the image? The color is quite saturated and despite being harshly lit (by flash?) from above, highlight detail is intact, save for the white tube, which is blown out. I can’t see any film grain… can anyone else?

    Do we know where the image has come from? Is it scanned from a print?

    This is the kind of question that Gordon could usefully provide an opinion on, too. In case he’s around.

  569. Tamara Bunke: I don’t know the source of that image, but I’ll have a look at my archives later, see what I can turn up.

  570. john sanders on October 4, 2020 at 10:30 pm said:

    Tamara: I’d be quite confident that Gordon could provide some of his expertise in this matter if he was of a mind. Whilst he never displayed the actual reproduction in his site’s suitcase pictorial, he did highlight numerous individual objects taken from amongst the scatter. It would not surprise if he was qualified enough to even identify what sort of camera was used, make, model, serial number and even film speed if appropriate providing his memory is still clear.

  571. john sanders on October 5, 2020 at 2:04 am said:

    Welcome to the parlour MD Bevan, but be warned that things happen a little differently on this side of the lake. For instance your on topic discussion points, whether they accord with our moderator’s views or nay, will be viewed with the this site’s renowned spirit of fairness and posted without fear of favour for opinion or query. Your having come out on the Tomsbytwo blog with all guns blazing was somewhat nieve and you can be assured that you may not be given a second chance to improve your game. That is unless you subscribe by instrument in writing to obey the site rule stipulating that personal opinions are not tolerated and that immoderstor Bonzo Bowes always gets the last word period.

  572. john sanders on October 5, 2020 at 5:38 am said:

    “…but I knew I was way out of my depth”. That’s Bonzo talking about his retreat from hopes that the lost tribe of Voynich would be universally accepted and be a boost to his nonentity status with recognised VM experts. Of course folks were polite enough in their rejection of his wacky views, most having seen quite enough of his overplayed obvious false sense of scolastic superiority. Some even making spot check visits to his single thread Grand Theft Auto platform to check that he wasn’t a zombie.

  573. milongal on October 5, 2020 at 9:57 pm said:

    @Misca: regarding awkward searching …..

    I assumed this was common knowledge, but just in case you didn’t know (apologies if you did)….

    I’ve found for searching it’s often easier not to use the site’s internal search, but use google and add “site:(partial)siteURL” (If you didn’t know this, I’m sure there’s plenty of references that explain all sorts of nuances to search domains and subdomains etc).

    The reason the approach does better for me on blogs (eg this one) is that the google search indexes the comments, not just the content. If you search for Keane in the searchbox on this site, you’ll get articles about Keane. If you do it through google you’ll get mentions in comments as well.

    The reason this seems to work on other collections like trove (and probably all the nla/naa sites) is that the rules on their searches seem broader than google (eg if you put a name or phrase in quotes, google assume you want a close match to that exact phrase….trove’s engine interprets it as you want a close match to any/all of the words in the phrase (so “Jessica Thomson” on google will match stuff similar to “Jessica Thomson”, but “Jessica Thomson” on trove will find all pages that have a Jessica and a Thomson – even if the names don’t appear together

  574. If you had another brain, Sanders, it’d be lonely.

  575. john sanders on October 6, 2020 at 11:45 pm said:

    General Colin Simpson was ‘Association’ head honco between ’47 and ’50 when it was disbanded through lack of support by it’s ex AIF base and to some extent the failing health of it’s titula head Tom Blamey. Simspson had served as Signal Intel. chief throughout the war and was used by the latter to tidy up things that might otherwise badly reflect on Australia’s reputation with it’s allies. After managing to
    resolve the catastrophies of the AIF retreats from Greece and Crete, he was sent to Java to put a better face on the apparent desertion of an RAAF squadron who were had holed up their, safely escorting the unit back to Adelaide in March ’42 thereby prevent threatened harm to the offenders. He was big in defence of the RSL’s far right agenda post WW2 and a firm believer in a military higherarchy run by civilian militIa officrs as opposed to regulars who lacked sufficient patriotism by his own reckonning and that of his boss Sir Thomas (to be Field Marshal) general Blamey.

    A very capable loyal and highly decorated officer who had been a pal of Blamey and other pro facist rabble rousers like R. L. Leane, Police Commisioner of South Australia from WW1and beyond, the man who may as well have coined the phrase that ‘the only good red was a dead red’, unless of course they happened to have done their bit for the war effort. Colin was a chemist in his civillian profession and a very capable one at that. In 1937 he started up the cooperative pharmaceutical retailing supply chain which still operates Australia wide named AMCAL. In 1945 an Adelaide family run business took advantage of AMCAL’s buying power and signed up after divesting it’s self of previous supply contracts and seemed to have done well. Charles, Colin and JOHN FREEMAN had a number of shops including those at Norwood, Unley, Glenside and of course the one at 24A JETTY Road, Glenelg.

  576. john sanders on October 7, 2020 at 4:14 am said:

    What would mission command for the 1946 Bikini atomic tests, be doing sending an irradiated Mk. 2 Somerton Man to Sydney for treatment. Great if he had a touch syphilis as Byron suspects, or even cerebral palsy perhaps, with it’s world class polio therapy clinic. Radiation poisoning cases would be better dealt with at a facility set up specifically for treating such cases ie.,Yokahama or the huge military hospital in Honolulu, much closer as well. Gordon might like to get his new man PeteDavo to revise his incorrect dates, as Jessica was in all probabilty still not too familiar with exposure cases in 1945, the year stipulated for her tryst with SM at RNSH.

  577. john sanders on October 7, 2020 at 8:36 am said:

    Tamara: If you haven’t found it yet, CM Somerton Man’s Suitcase thread gives a much brighter clearer photo of the background which throws some doubt on the computer monitor screen, whilst the scatter gives some clarity on other objects such as the folding coat hanger, readily distinguisable from the small saw thingo.

  578. john sanders on October 7, 2020 at 1:45 pm said:

    ….and a couple more identification errors, my excuse being failure to take in the aspect and film colour tones. M red outboard fuel container turns out to be a barrel type vucuum cleaner of typical Electrolux or Volta type. The other being the misidentified blue oil filter gizmo which turns out to be the little Green’s pipe and cigarette lighter, sans polished surface as displayed in Detective Len Brown’s 1978 presentation for Inside Story. My stuff up as usual.

  579. john sanders on October 8, 2020 at 7:11 am said:

    Let’s see if we just can’t help Bonzo Bowes out with a few factual errors in his latest comic capers text concerning a nest of Italian fruiterers that had once occupied barracks right next door to the army Water Transport Wing at Chowder Bay. This is the same location where spy master Lt. Alf Boxall 36 had just set up shop with his comrades, Maj. Bill J. Moulds 36 of Manly and a 29 year old red Jessie Harkness, a nurse at nearby Royal North Shore Hospital. The purpose of their collective being to oversee military shipping cargos destined for the Salisbury Weapons Research Establishment at Adelaide SA and report relevant details for favour of clandestine transmition via a ship’s third officer cargo marker and soviet conduit to his soviet consular handlers in Sydney.

    Problems arise, as most informed CM followers would know. They would include realisation that we’re talking mid 1945 and the Italians had ceased being the enemy a year earlier. Most of the internees had of course by then returned to their homes in suburbia and resumed pre war vocations, either in their market gardens fruit shops or fish cafe’s. Of course no ships were headed for WRE, reason being that it actually didn’t even exist unti 1947. The wartime munitions filling factory at Salisbury which it took over from had ceased it’s own operations down due to a marked diminisment for need since VE day in May ’45…Alf Boxall was 39 not 36 and Jessica was likely to have been 24 not 29…Alf Boxall’s daughter bn. 14/6/44 was Robyn Isobel according to his NAA file and Bonzo’s Leslie seems only ever to have come to light with Gerry’s book?

  580. Tamara Bunke on October 8, 2020 at 8:23 am said:

    Well, well, well, compadres. What do we make of Mr. Voshart’s rendering from the bust, photos and written descriptions, as broadcast by ABC and highlighted over on TS/BS? Artistic license aside, it’s the most compelling image yet. Gives the old bugger a bit more life.

    Is Master Robin a “chip off the old block”, as we say here in Bolivia?

  581. john sanders on October 8, 2020 at 1:36 pm said:

    Tamara: Voshart completely missed that standout groove on the top of SM’s nose in the finished product, having included it in his mortuary photo assimaly which was even included in the Lawson bust. So what’s his game here; seems like he’s been given a suspect without it to comply with a client’s whims. I recall when I first intruded into this case on CM, I made mention that old Glenelg money bags and racing man Reg Bickford who died at his Somerton home on 20/11/48 had that same characteristic which I though might well have come down from the original Alvington, Devon family. A good example can be found on the American born actor Charles Bickford who has kindly supplied us with a hundred clips displaying the very same feature. Check him out on wiki if your more adventurous than the rest.

  582. Tamara Bunke on October 8, 2020 at 8:23 pm said:

    Charlie Bickford sure is one mean-lookin’ mo’fo. Died only two months after I did, too. Anyway, if I was casting for a Somerton Man, old Charlie would get the part, for sure.

    But I’m not one for noses. I know from bitter experience that it’s the teeth that identify the man in the end.

  583. john sanders on October 8, 2020 at 10:54 pm said:

    Tamara: In that case, you’d be on the money with Dan having taken young Robin’s pearly whites as his model (conveniently). He certainly had not much to go on with SM’s abscence of a toothy smile on the slab and to me the man was not much of a grinner in life either.

  584. john sanders on October 9, 2020 at 3:23 am said:

    I’m pretty sure it was Lawson who brought us news of a falling out between our former pals, ( Bill & Jim fall). Two ‘joined at the hip’ (fore & aft) inseperable bum buddies and devout believers in spy theories, the art secret writing within a code format and soviet inspired beach slayings. When mates fall out it is of course a sad affair indeed and brings with it a sense of unimaginable loss for mutual friends caught between allegance to both. How could such a thing happen we might wonder; perhaps something as petty as mere mention of two little dicky birds and subsequent assumed connection to a strenuously denied stalking charge, thereby creating offence…So it’s fly away Peter, fly away Paul, have your way GC but get ready for a fall…

  585. john sanders on October 9, 2020 at 6:10 am said:

    *** would be awarded to C G Cramer according to Peter Bowes own simple rating system. Although it would seem to fall in a specified category by his very own reckoning, Gordon the Great Pretender is guilty of his rejecting his own ‘take it on the chin’ ruling. He would of course deny that his very actions led to the shutting down of a very finely set up Fandom sponsored ‘anemptyglass’ site, now a virtual SM wasteland due to the man’s manic jealousy, insecurity and spite.

  586. john sanders on October 9, 2020 at 8:44 am said:

    As far as the name Bickford goes, it is of course intrisically connected to our SM case for a variety of sound reasons, not least of which involves the inheritors of an original softdrink and chemical company set up in Adelaide by Devonish migrants William and Elizabeth Bickford in the 1850s. Although Bill died soon after, the old matriarch was startlingly successful in her management and in the raising of kids with similar business accumen…Harold, William and Reginald were all second generation inheritors of a new era and born Somertonians who spent much of their early lives at Alvington mansion across the from the beach.

    I spent a lot of time researching the family, heirs and successors to the Bickford empire which continues in much the same manner as it has for 150 years. I’ve gotten to know most of the twentieth century members quite better than most I would expect. Those that served their country in all wars and mixed services, those involved in civic affairs, sporting clubs, company directorships, those who were cut down in youth and even others who went through highly publicized divorces from rather sporty ladies with a penchant for men in uniform. I have all the details and histories of scores of this interesting ahd closeknit family

    All but one are more or less accounted for and I’m going nuts trying to extend the little I know about this particular mystery man, likely born before WW1. It seems that I overlooked him previously mainly in that his name didn’t raise flags. William Reginald fitted in well with the older governing patriarchs in a way that he could be taken for granted as a son or nephew and not likely an unknown. This chap now,
    does not appear to be part of the original S A family at all. The the only mention of him in the state is his marriage to the daughter of a well to do family of second generation woolbuyers in 1939 and when he and wife Elizabeth arrived in Adelaide from Singapore in 1947. Stated address on arrival proved to be a little windfall which I’ll elaborate on later when and if there are revelations worth revelation.

  587. john sanders on October 9, 2020 at 11:37 am said:

    Found William Reginald Bickford, but still doesn’t go beyond ’47. Likely an Anglo Indian public servant who was cited for bravery and exemplary service during Burmese relief efforts in a civil capacity. So doesn’t appear to be related directly to the Adelaide Bickford mob. Will now have to find out where he was evacuted to when the Japanese took Lashio. I’m thinking that he may have gone to Columbo, Ceylon, then possibly shipped to Adelaide on the Orcades with Colin Simpson’s exfiltration draft in March to be with his wife. That is unless he was captured and spent the war in Changi or like internment camp. Getting interesting and hope to expand.

  588. john sanders on October 9, 2020 at 2:51 pm said:

    After analysing raw evidence, I’m quite sure William Bickford was not captured in Burma, but instead was responsible for assisting all sorts of civilians to make the perilous one thousand kilometer journey to temporary camps in Assam province, India. The conditions encountered would have taken a huge toll on all including himself, due to infectious diseases, lack of medicine food and rest deprevation. There can be little doubt that he would have, like his charges have been prone to the effects of debilitating maladies such as dysentry, malaria, dengue fever and scrub mite typhus with it’s death rate alone higher than almost any other arachnid infection known. One might well imagine that without penicilin and other modern day care in 1942, reinfection might well have stayed with a so afflicted person for many years, indeed most probably never regained their pre war health. I wonder if a pathologist unfamiliar with tropical scrub typhus, such as John Dwyer would have been competent in detecting such organic breakdown during a routine autopsy.

  589. john sanders on October 9, 2020 at 11:00 pm said:

    I think we might well be on to something well worth pursuing in a broader manner than my reaearch limitations allow to expand much further. Could well be bigger than past initiatives the likes of Willem Styn, Arnold Deutsch, Jimmy Keane and a dozen more Keanes; even might I dare to say Pavel Fedosimov. We really need to get down to the nuts and bolts of my William Raymond Bickford who might have been of a type to give himself a beach funeral to accord with similar rites given to those witnessed by him during service in the East. I seem to recall E. Arthur Blair (Orwell) describing such a ritual in ‘Burma Days’. Speaking of which he and the great man almost certainly would have been aquainted in the twenties and I’d guess that they were of a comparable age. The only thing else I can offer at present is that in 1947, Reg gave the Adelaide address of his wife’s elder brother John Edwards who during the war was a naval Lieutenant and had served in both Sydney and Melbourne One Sydhey address happened to be a very short hop to that of Joseph Marshall’s Singapore teacher, noting that Reg and Elizabeth Bickford had arrived from there. As to what they had been doing there is anybody’s guess.

  590. john sanders on October 10, 2020 at 4:08 am said:

    Some clarity is now forthcoming courtessy of various London Gazettes, Civil Lists and the like, but still nothing beyond a change of appointment from Burma to a Commonwealth Relations posting to recognised part of the Dominion gazetted 11 June 1948. During the war he had been given an Army reserve commission in the medical service which must have coincided with his arrival at Margherita with the motley collection of emaciated mixed nanionality of refugees for which he got his MBE. One thing we know from Bill’s citation is that he was a powerful swimmer who crossed the mighty Irrawaddi or tributary thereof; and by extension a man blessed with large hands and big shoulders perhaps.

    Of course for those who are not Keane on going over the SM cut off year of 1908, then some possible bad news comes up with mention of his age as being only thirty six in 1948 which is a tad under our bar set at of 40/45, if of course the list detail was correct. I’d personally reserve judgement on the number until we come up with confirmation, considering that means our hero would then have earned his gong at age 30 in 1942 and that his seniority date for promotion to department undersecretary way back in 1935 would be just 23 if that can be believed. I wonder where he married Liz in ’39; if in Australia there should be access to the B D & M record as oppossed to the S A Geni. entry in Adelaide press which is pay walled.

    I realise that it might be rathet difficult for such a well known officer of the King to end up dead on some beach in the Antipodes without there having been a hew & cry raised that he was even missing, exacerbated by nobody coming forward to recognise him or to claim his remains. Perhaps not so strange if our friend had for instance recently stood down from a recent posting to say FSM or Singapore after the war, which sounds right and then came to Australia (Gov. Gazettes are always a year off) perhaps for his medical condition where he would have been another face in the uncaring Adelaide crowd. If only we could come up with what became of his wife or her family, there’d be possibilty for connection which ain’t happening for most part although I think I just saw sister Claire getting hitched to an AIF lad.

  591. Anybody know if the Freeman Rubaiyat, whatever publication it was, had a fly leaf separating the back cover from the last page?

  592. john sanders on October 10, 2020 at 1:41 pm said:

    Peteb: Best common sense based calculated guess; no fly leaf and most likely no dust cover. That sit OK with you? or are you looking for better ammo.?

  593. Got all the ammo I need, just need to get the sights adjusted, looking for a clean headshot. Thanks.

  594. john sanders on October 10, 2020 at 10:37 pm said:

    Proponderance of opinion from past submissions suggest Minx edition was somewhat tattered which means no cover, and inclusion of penciled phone number(s) on TS page points to no fly leaf. Perhaps Cramer could share more reliable wisdom.

  595. john sanders on October 10, 2020 at 10:57 pm said:

    The Queen has been graciously pleased to appoint the undermentioned to be officers of Her Majesty’s Diplomatic Service…William Reginald Bickford Esq. MBE.
    From London Gazette 5th July 1966.

  596. They travelled to Australia in early 1950 as well…so, not him.

    In fact, they travelled quite a lot.

    He was born 14 Sept 1911 and died in Feb 1990 in Haywards Heath, West Sussex.

    Elizabeth Mary (Edwards) Bickford was born 3 Aug 1914 and died in Oct 1999.

    Her brother (John Warren Edwards) was born and lived in Australia.

    Their parents were Stephanie Whetham and Warren Edwards.

  597. JS – You could have provided the information you had and the information you were looking for in maybe 3-4 sentences. That would have been much better than rambling through all that stuff just to figure out what you were on about.

  598. Tamara Bunke on October 11, 2020 at 6:33 am said:

    The only true stopper.

    Alas.

  599. john sanders on October 11, 2020 at 8:56 am said:

    Misca: Always nice to get the good oil from such a reliable and obliging source and many thanks. If you’re not to busy, how about William George Bickford 5/3/05 (?). yachtsman, rejected for RAN and last seen 2/42 Perth. Missing Bickfords abound.

    I must admit with that I tend to be long winded and a real space waster at times, but by the same token, I love to inform others about brave deeds involving ligitimate SM candidates like y’man with the MBE. Helps me with my filing too.

  600. The man with the MBE:

    Medal listing of Bickford, William George
    Discharge number: R10223

    He was born 6 August 1905 in Tilbury, Essex and died 6 January 1973 in Thurrock, Essex. His parents were William George Bickford (1873-1945) and Florence Maud.

  601. john sanders on October 11, 2020 at 10:53 pm said:

    Misca: Another one down and well done as usual. Take a break you deserve it.

  602. john sanders on October 13, 2020 at 11:58 am said:

    It seems that when ‘bright spark’ Byron Deveson spotted young Strapps mention of the striped trousers way back when, he gave C G Cramer the ammunition he needed to create his by now well tabulated theme. That being to have SM carted off by Bob Wake’s team to have a late night snack and get his striped duds exchanged for a pair of plain brown hastily mended Staminas before being taken back down to the beach in order to take care of any later queries. Just a couple of amomolies arise with that case scenario from where I stand and it boils down to Strapps own words, supported by his companion to some degree. They both say they saw the man’s hand, in Gordon’s case fully extended, but with the added observation of seeing him only from the waist down, but assuming he wore a suit, the jacket was not visible. My point being if the left arm was outstretched and they had a clear view from the waist down, then they must surely have seen both the striped jacket sleave and at least several inches of the tail frock hanging below the belt line. Looks to me like the kids were mistaken in what they saw and that Cramer took advantage of the confusion to support his not so clever diversion. By the same token Bowes is not off the hook by playing his own misleading game for God knows how long, Byron of course seeing from the start that mention of stripes was not supported.

  603. sparky on October 13, 2020 at 9:17 pm said:

    Stirrer

  604. john sanders on October 14, 2020 at 3:50 am said:

    For anyone bored with my manic persistance re possible missing Bickfords, let me fill you in on a few blanks that may not have been given too much blog spots over the years…Reginald ‘Joe’ Bickford, along with three of four siblings, was born at Alvington 17 Sth Esplinade Somerton in 1880 and died at 17 Tarleton St. Somerton on 20th November 1948 aged 68, leaving his year older widow Rosa nee Cudmore plus two married sons and a married daughte. At time of his passing. Sir Reginald was managing director of Bickford’s cordials and aerated waters division of the parent chemicals Company which was amalgimated with Drug Houses of Australia.

    Reg was no small fry in terms of wealth and influence within the upper eschelon of Adelaide society, he had been a racing man, was also on the board of several top sporting clubs and charitable organisations, not to mention board chair of the Somerton Crippled Children’s Home that was taken over by his doctor son Major Reginald Nevil Cudmore Bickford MID. When he passed it was the Saturday, start of the Parafield Air Pageant so happens, the message would have soon gone out, for widely scattered friends relatives etc., to roll up at Somerton and pay respects, which they did by the score, from near & far. Apart from Perth where his brother Sidney had settled years before, there were Rosa Cudmore pasturalist kin from Queensland NSW Victoria, and grazing districts along Murray in SA’s Riverland.

    In order to allow for far flung mourners desirous of attending the funeral there was a need to delay it for quite awhile which was a good idea for another reason, that being to allow local officials to make necessary provisioning for one of the largest turnouts in years, which most likely included arranging accommodation any other facilities to ensure a good press coverage. As for the main event, it finally went ahead without a hitch, the courtage leaving the family home at 2.00pm on Monday, November 29th 1948 and making for St. Judes Cemetery at nearby Brighton and puting the great man to rest in a celebration of life befitting a Royal.

    So, bearing in mind the mixed make up of the mourners from all walks of life who had arrived at Somerton from every far flung district of the Commonwealth, during the preceeding week, over the weekend and even on Monday 29th, the burial day. Anyone think it might have been likely that one of joe Bickford’s old racing mates, left his bush humpy, caught the old curtain flapper motor rail from up country to town, then attended on his ‘pat malone’ to pay his private homage. He may have drowned his sorrows alone at the wake or elswhere, spent his last night but one at the familiar Somerton stables, then next day, still in his funeral attire, wandered down to see the old Bickford family home. Then while descending the one off ‘disabled stairs’ to the beach, fell through the railing and landing on X marks the spot where he opted for Tamam Shud a la sine die.

  605. Tamara Bunke on October 14, 2020 at 9:48 am said:

    If that’s a solid coincidence of events, then it has some merit, John. Surprising that the two events were not connected (as far as we know) by press and police?

  606. john sanders on October 14, 2020 at 10:53 am said:

    ……Reg ‘Joe’ Bickford was not a Sir afterall and by extension his Rosa was no lady. On a brighter note however, her learned brother Arthur and cousin Collier of the Wentworth-on-Murray Cudmore clan, were both Knights of the Realm and would likely have attended the Requiem Mass for old Joe in ’48 in that capacity.

  607. john sanders on October 14, 2020 at 11:28 am said:

    No not even a whisper Tamara. Brings to mind what Sister Thomson was alleged to have said about the case being somewhat above Sapol’s status in certain matters pertaining to a superior class in Adelaide social structure.

  608. Tamara Bunke on October 14, 2020 at 1:02 pm said:

    John, I guess one of the questions is: what kind of people get washed into town for the event. There’ll be some good, some bad and some downright ugly.

    Lords and Ladies? Made Men? Bookies and spivs? Spies?

  609. milongal on October 14, 2020 at 9:19 pm said:

    Certainly an interesting coincidence, and as you say it makes Jestyn’s comments more interesting. I never liked the interpretation that she was implying there were secret agencies involved (which I guess is where a lot of people’s espionage angle comes from), but I can accept she was implying that money and influence can make all sorts of things go away.

    Incidentally, does that maybe also talk to the lack of a hat? Suspect you wouldn’t wear a hat to a funeral, and if SM was in his Sunday Duds (as opposed to someone who was always well dressed), is it possible he didn’t bother with a hat because he was dressed up for a funeral, not a normal day?
    Not sure the (contents of the) suitcase fits in well with that theory though….

  610. john sanders on October 14, 2020 at 10:55 pm said:

    Too true, and don’t forget the bent coppers. Speaking of which, I wonder what they might have missed at the all important crime scene. Plenty in my books and I’ve tried to allert others to some over time with little interest shown. If you’d care to test your powers of observation, please get over there and report back so we can discuss it. Best place to look is ‘Tamam Shud unredacted’ who did a better job of the CS pic than most. After that we might have a look at Grey’s Anatomy if you’re up for the gory outcome that comes with a heavy fall.

  611. john sanders on October 15, 2020 at 9:01 am said:

    Milongal: By degrees of coincidental probability, a mourner at Reg ‘Joe’ Bickford’s funeral, or one who came on Tuesday to pay private graveside homage to a mate from his racing days, must at the very least be on par with other contenders for Somerton Man status. I’m certain that the well attended local St Jude’s service was never put up there with other big draw cards ie., Parafield Air Pageant, Ballet World Premier, or side show carnival at Glenelg, as being of equal value. Baring in mind the number of out-of-towners, interstate family and even the odd lone cocky in attendance, we’ll never know why not. I brouoght this very subject up for mention in several earlier posts, but don’t recall that my raising it then was ever dealt with as a topic for extended discussion, certainly not that I can recall.

  612. john sanders on October 15, 2020 at 10:38 pm said:

    Peteb: I can’t see that the the Coroner, Sapol or the A.G. have any real say in the matter. According to Adelaide Cemetery Authority who are responsible for site leases at the dead centre, when your time’s up, your up, and that would apply to all three who have shared SM’s West Terrace plot way beyond their paid up date.

  613. john sanders on October 16, 2020 at 5:59 am said:

    Milongal: I’ts only little more than two and a half kms. from Joe Bickfords resting place to Somerton via Brighton Rd Wattle Ave. King George Rd. and Repton St. and Sth Esplinade to reach Alvington mansion. After leaving his hat on a rack in the St. Jude’s Church vestibule, it should have taken SM but thirty minutes on foot, though who knows what shape he was in. There was a rest stop if required at John Miller Reserve benches or, better still the Sailing Club where he might have forced down a plate of chips and a cold West End ale or two before continuing. ps: I wonder if the old church has a sign in register for mourners and a lost property book listing hats left in the vestibule closet on 30/11/48.

  614. Johnno … there has to be a reason for two governments of different political persuasions to have the one thing in common, that is, denying a privately funded exhumation, and scooping up the DNA work already done.

  615. john sanders on October 16, 2020 at 1:26 pm said:

    Peteb: The baskets didn’t seem to mind the offer of a privately funded SM burial service, but things were great in ’48 when socialist conservative (Playford) still held sway in sweet S. A.

  616. john sanders on October 17, 2020 at 5:02 am said:

    Peteb: I might have had a moment of distraction; but I think my point was that a big city mortuary has more than enough laying in customers at any one time for mix ups to occur. Who knows what the deal was with Const. Durham’s ‘original body’ gaff? or what y’man made of it, although it didn’t seem to perturb him at all. One thing of several that I have difficulties with in Henry’s case is that he went well beyond the pale in describing SM’s distinctive feet, calves and hands but not one word about missing incisors and weird lugs that might otherwise be worthy of comment. On the other hand you’ll recall that on D day plus one, re. the autopsy, Colonel Dwyer saw nothing note worthy about the limb extremities, which had so facinated Lawson; he did see fit to provide an excellent tooth chart nonetheless. Horses for courses perhaps, although for all that, one can’t help but to wonder if our resident professionals were describing the same cove, notwithstanding the six month hiatus of course.

  617. Fair enough. PL though was a known mat grappler and being so probably had an eye for good physique .. unlike your stoop shouldered pipe-smoking bespectacled quack.

  618. And by the way, the Adelaide morgue was about as big as a double garage .. I have found both exterior and interior pics.

  619. john sanders on October 18, 2020 at 6:11 am said:

    Peteb: Lawson gets an unwanted call from Const. Dinham not Durham, as Gordon Cramer continues to misinform a doubtful poster. Paul who at that juncture was having some bother with SM’s ears, they presenting more like pair of dried apricots than pinkies, is not amused, particularly when pressed as to when ‘the body’ might be made ready for disposal. “And what blessed body would that be mate?” asks a cagey old Lawson as known later from ‘Inside Story’. “Why, the the original blessed beach body of course. I was told you only got to do one body at a sitting”! was the sarcastic retort…..When you make exactly the same name error as pal Gordon, one can’t help but agree to his pliagerism claims.

  620. john sanders on October 18, 2020 at 12:23 pm said:

    “I also have some copies of some writing found on the deaceased” is what police photogropher Durham told the Inquest He had done the fingerprinting and slab pics on day three at the mortuary, some of which were returned to him after giving evidence. And yet his referral to copies of a paper with some wtiting found on the deceased did not prompt any desire for clarification by the Coroner or anyone in the years since ror all that. If it was the Tamam Shud slip, like most might assume, it certainly wasn’t described in those terms, indeed it certainly seems pretty vague; perhaps just as unclear as the later mention of C9 (piece of paper) in the index list.

    On day one a memo was received at police HQ from Glenelg PD advising a Det.
    Leane and Payneham OIC of a firm identity named E. C. Johnson of George Street that had come to their attention, though there was no ellaboration. During that evening the information was checked and discounted; affirmed next morn when Edgar Cyril Johnson presented himself and advised he was staying at People’s Palace (Salvos). Problem for me is that his description didn’t fit in a number of areas including his height of 5’9″ and that his middle right finger wasn’t., not forgetting that he was 55 and sported an arm in plaster. He was ex Aif and a cook.

    So whence had the information been received at such an early stage., surely not from friends or family and certainly not from any missing person file. I wonder is it possible that it came from that ‘piece of paper with writing’ that Durham had referenced. Perhaps something found on the body after a more thorough going over by Det. Sgt. Harry Strangway, of Glenelg who was regarded as the best SC man in Sapol in those days. We’re not to know of course because the old fellow was re assigned to local crime then Det. R. L. Leane took over the case six long weeks later. The piece of paper might well have said ‘E.C. Johnson Salvos’, a good place to camp for a sober bloke from the bush. Sounds reasonable to me…

  621. john sanders on October 19, 2020 at 8:13 am said:

    Gordon Cramer at BS seems to be of the opinion like many, that Durham’s paper with WRITING represented the TS slip which might have made sense had it been clearer ie. ‘a torn slip with Tamam Shud in print’. So I repeat, it does not tally up with the C9 ‘piece of paper’ exhibit tendered and besides, the man’s testimony, in essence seems to have dealt solely with his recollections of a single mortuary attendance to photograph the body some five months prior to the TS slip being found elsewhere by J B Cleland. Of course it may be that the deposition clerk mixed up the order or something, though it’s fair to say that if so, it would be one of more than one to many such mistakes evidenced for my liking. Having been in an occupation where the collecting and collating of evidence was paramount to obtaining a conviction. I’m still wary of being made to look inefficient due a silly oversight by a ciurt clerk. Of course CGC not having served in a like capacity is obviously not going to be fussed with sticking to known facts, if a fanciful storyline allows for better copy.

  622. john sanders on October 19, 2020 at 11:22 am said:

    Peteb: So nice of you to enquire on CGC’s behalf about our mental health issues on this side of the channel. Can’t speak for Nick who doesn’t come by much these days with little need it seems. I’m doing just fine thanks, but for that inferiority thing which probably has to do with a bad gene or two. I’ve noted that in reading between the lines, you still have fond memories of the old drunk, a bit loopy from need of a drink perhaps. I had been concerned myself of late, though after your little tet a tet with the old phony, he seems to have picked up somewhat and is showing signs of his old self, case in point being that he has resumed talking to his alter ego on line once more. A touch of that old repartee was evidenced when his Anon. made fun of SM’s dodgy ‘chompers’ and even dared to test his master’s vastly superior knowledge; all for effect of ciurse which would certainly fool some fools.

  623. john sanders on October 20, 2020 at 6:22 am said:

    Peteb: Well profiled facial impressions are OK for frontal comparison but as any old suit worth his well deserved stipen can tell you, to get the full guts on a dial, you better have a profile ala ‘portrait parle’ as they used to say in the job. There are several of SM out there, some of them good enough for a shot at the top score contest, if you’re up to it….ps. to include Cramer’s side views with all those red arrows he’s so fond of could be deemed an unfare advantage.

  624. john sanders on October 20, 2020 at 10:56 am said:

    No punters in need of stimulation I take it, okey dokey but I’ll just go right ahead anyway. The other day I was making enquiries with the helpful folk at Brighton Council re the old St. Judes cemetery and just so happened to obtain some rather useful information on street lighting at Somerton end of Sth Esplinade through to the dunes near John Miller park. In essence it appears that there were a few single bulb & shade pole lights up to Broadway from Glenelg, then nothing through to Wyatt St. where one was present in the 30s. “When we left (Somerton ) at 8pm the street lights were on”. is what young Gordon Strapps confidently told the ’49 inquest, along with a bunch of defencive fibs. It is quite clear in the panorama shot of the beach (Truth 10/7/49) that their are no staunchions visible between Ferris St. and further south of Bickford Tce. Digest that and I’ll treat you to another on John Moss at the risk of becoming another pliagerist..

  625. Tamara Bunke on October 20, 2020 at 6:29 pm said:

    Sanders – nice one. Strapps’ testimony is suspect from start to finish. Especially his curiously late and hasty blurting out of the bit about the stripey kecks.

    Whiff of the esprit d’escalier about that one. Almost like he forgot to mention something he was told to?

  626. john sanders on October 21, 2020 at 7:44 am said:

    Clive is wanting to know why go to the trouble of doing a bust of SM which was unlikely to achieve any better results than the original Durham, doctored slab photos of the body which was about to be interred. Two reasons that come to mind relate to CIB chief Bill Sheridan’s infatuation with latest policing trends from Scotland Yard for such fancies; then we have the connection between J B Cleland and a young museum pheasant plucker Paul Lawson who sought experience in that very field. Cleland and young ‘Henry’ were more or less dependant upon each other’s specialties one as an ornithologist, the other a taxidetmist, so when the old chap was called in by Bill to assist in other elements of the case, he naturally recommended his young mate for the bust. Similarly where there was an easy quid to be made for little input old john brought along his university colleague Cedric Stanton Hicks for his share of the SM spoils. Sir Ced had just been cleaned up in a messy divorce, then found himself saddled with a new bimbo to support and a mansion in the hills to maintain. Unlike nowdays, mates knew how to look after their pals in those days Clive and no one left their mates behind.

  627. john sanders on October 21, 2020 at 1:03 pm said:

    Aplologies all, but my promised semi plagiarised John Moss factual accounts of 8/1 and 20/6/49 didn’t pass muster, either that or I didn’t press the go button which is just as likely.

  628. john sanders on October 21, 2020 at 11:17 pm said:

    Boris: in re your Kramer v Anon. (Cramer) notes on Paul Lawson’s SM hair samples being contaminated by nuclear fallout from the US 1946 Bikini atomic tests; a couple of questions we might have the old gentleman answer while his memory of past events are still lucid. We’ll need to know firstly whether the samples were obtained at the time of the body casting, if they were plucked or cut from the scalp and for what original purpose. Then most importantly details of relevant testing methods, where they were done and when; perhaps they were undertaken on his trip to the Continent in ’56 where advaced extraction techniques were available.

  629. The case is all sown up … and you, Dome, were almost there. Thank you all and good evening, it’s been a rare pleasure.

  630. john sanders on October 22, 2020 at 8:20 am said:

    Peteb: You’ve got two impeccable sources in Clive Turner-Walker and Tweed Daily (Newscorp) rag telling you that the Thomsons were in Melbourne on 29/11/48 for the Holden launch; they rarely get it wrong. You’ll also need to know that the make do FX designation didn’t come until later, but even dud 4711 wouldn’t know that.

  631. Back it up, squire, show me the money (link) ..

  632. john sanders on October 22, 2020 at 11:10 pm said:

    Peteb: You know I’m not into links and pretty pictures. From memory though, the FX Holden came about as late as 1960 when auto dealers used it as a means of distinguishing between the original ’48 and its look alike ’52 model that came with new front suspension. In late ’53 the first factory model designator came into being with the FJ special and its flash new grill. As for the newspaper coverage of the 29/11/48 Holden launch in Melbourne, all newspapers covered it, though the Tweed Daily (your local) would have been the only one (if true) to mention that the Thomsons were amongst the invited guests.

  633. This is no mention of the Thomson’s at the new car unveiling at all … none, zero, nada .. sweet f.ck all in fact. It’s just another example of the standard Sanders bullshit … and speaking of duds, mate, you’re the template. Nothing you say ever has any merit. But you’re keeping Dome’s numbers ticking so there’s that.
    Meanwhile, the party’s over here. Check link.
    Read it and weep.

  634. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 3:19 am said:

    I sure hope for his sake, Peteb’s new recruit ‘theslydog’ doesn’t dare to mention that Lyons was 15 to 20 yards from SM as opposed to ‘stripes Strapps’ 10 yards, which would refute Bonzo’s claim of being closer. Tbt’s other welcome novice ‘Dork’ brought up some old history for most of us, though his news on the ticketing and ROK drop off would have come across more like a breath of fresh air to y’man; so he’s on safe ground for the moment.

  635. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 5:00 am said:

    Speaking of Sir Cecil Stanton Hicks, we have GC as ‘redacted’ now insisting that our knight should have known about Warfarin circa.1948 in terms of it’s potential as an assassisin’s tool. (uses debatable as disclaimer). On line history talks only about it’s use as an effective organic rat killer in ’48, but no advances with regards to human use until well after SM’s demise. In fact Ced Hicks would likely have known nought about ‘warfarin’ period seeing’s his part in WW2 was strictly a non combative role.
    You’ll pardon the pun, but infact the man does give an account of having served in the trenches as a private soldier in WW1, allbeit no confirmation of this claim has been found to date.

  636. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 8:38 am said:

    Peteb: Don’t forget that I keep your numbers ticking over too MATE. Pulling your ‘running dog’s’ post on The Tweed Daily’s coverage of the Thomson’s 29/11/48 invite to Fisherman’s Bend, then substituting it for favour of informative scoops by your clones Snoopdog? and his not so self assured cobber Snark? whatever, ala GC’s supporting pals.. Speaking of Clive and Cramer, would you believe that your good friend Derek had discussions back in 2013 with a nuclear fall out expert in Taiwan, name of Gordon Turner-Walker, Gawdstruth. (Want the link and a pic)

  637. I don’t know what it is about you, Johnno, but you’re like the mongrel dog my neighbour keeps to bark off the brown snakes .. lovely smelly old bitch she is, do anything for a scratch and tickle. Loves the attention, always at the back door looking for a scrap of food.
    She’ll eat anything, trouble is there’s always a mess she leaves behind. Piles of it. Day after day.

  638. peteb: errrm… are you saying you’re the snake? You lost me there.

  639. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 11:07 am said:

    So much for Snoopdog’s romp in the park with Peteb, an invitation to the ball and other glad tidings. It might be known that Bonzo Bowes offered me such a deal after I’d been on the job less time than he. Be warned, he is not one to tolerate opinions of those he can’t manipulate and control completely. In the dog’s thirst for humour and a good tempered master, I’d say he not only missed out on the bone, neither was there any friendly pat on the head in their parting.

  640. Yeah, Dome, I’m the deadliest in the business .. ask anyone. By the way, I see you are still headlining your interest in the Somerton Man case on your blog here, so how’s that going? Still working on it?

  641. Peteb: I’m always looking out for interesting research leads on the Somerton Man. And I’m almost always disappointed by how few I find.

    As far as the whole car scenario goes, I continue to think there’s likely to be a core of truth running through there – e.g. that it was George’s garage in Henley Beach the guy came to visit, but then diverted to meet in Glenelg instead, etc. But how that all fits in with the chemist’s car, the guy’s death, the Tamam Shud slip etc remains really hazy.

    I know there’s no shortage of people who read it all as evidence of conspiracy, but to my eyes it looks like a cover-up.

  642. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 11:54 am said:

    Nick: Or could it be Sapol, through R L leane doing an ‘I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine’ deal. Case in point; between ’41 and ’49 the Freeman family had four known serious interactions with the filth including one involving intervention of aforesaid Det. Leane in ’43. The most serious of these involving a death, had an outcome that may have had a different outcome, truth be know. Enter the unamed businesman’s timely attendance at Angas St. HQ on 22/7/49 with a million to one chance ROK offering that Sgt. Leane was so desparate for in order to close the SM case. Stranger things happened in my own policing experience, but not with any regularity mind.

  643. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 12:15 pm said:

    ….and as an afterthought, Freeman’s chemists were known (varifiably) to be also connected with at least one, possibly two suppliers of patent (quack) medicines, most likely in contravention of pharmacy board guidlines. One in particular that contrived to fake another beach fatality (varifiable) and got away with it. We are not to know whether cops were complicit, though it would surely have been suspected. If you want the guts on that one, I have it.

  644. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 1:12 pm said:

    Nick: Not so hazy at all. For a start Feltus’ little Minx (not little) was a convenient piece of make believe based on newspaper stories, as was the fake brother-in-law who didn’t exist, what’s more it was Colin, not Jack (Ron Francis), Leane’s informant who was most likely in residence at 24A Jetty Rd. in ’48. Gerry gave us a clue in his fantasy yarn as to what it was based on; big capital letters from memory ‘Toro Toro Toro’ = Bull Bull Bull. For those who don’t know and don’t want to know, Feltus was the kingpin of a mob calling themselves ‘Inner Sanctum (Sanctimonious) which comprised notables like Cramer, Lawson, Ruffles, Elliott and others who alledgedly signed an ‘Official Secrets Act’ (suggested by CGC) type non disclosure pledge no less….. You going to post this Nick, no bothet to me!

  645. John Sanders: the post where the “Inner Sanctum” was mentioned is here: https://tamamshud.blogspot.com/2014/09/somerton-man-suitcase-contents.html

    His list of initials and pseudonyms: “Grace, TJ, JP, BT, BB, JR”, so no obvious PL there.

  646. NickP, cover up you say. Got a who and a why for that?

  647. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 10:39 pm said:

    Nick: ….and no Gerry Feltus, Laurie Elliott or Gordon Cramer for that matter, so perhaps Lawson aka ‘Henry’ also used a pseudonom as well, or was left off the list in keeping with the official secrets act rules and by-laws. Would that make sense?.

  648. john sanders on October 23, 2020 at 10:58 pm said:

    theslydog: You’ll have noted that your wise rejection of Bonzo’s invitation to hide your bone (bury) in a secret place (IP SFC) and the diatribe resoonse, has now gone like the dodo. So you now start on a clean page and you’ll do fine, just so long as you suck arse like you’re told!…

  649. john sanders on October 24, 2020 at 6:45 am said:

    I recall some long gone sleuth’s logical explanation for the Henley Beach rail mix up, could easily have involved SM’s unfamiliarity with Adelaide beach scene, there being at least three Jetty Roads to contend with and each having individual access means from Adelaide Station. Had he been a denizen of Melbourne, Broken Hill, Sydney or the bush, SM could be excused for his ‘getting off at Redfern’ blunder as none of the above cities or towns have listings for any Jetty Road in their respective high density settled areas…PS. The tiny port of Dromana Vic. is one town that does have a Jetty Road so we can assume that it might once have led down to a Jetty. Queenie Thomson hailed from around there so it’s likely that in their courting days, she and ‘the big fella’ knew of it’s romantic attractions.

  650. john sanders on October 24, 2020 at 7:44 am said:

    Nick: I’m certain there were other members and perhaps some, the less super-silly-assed were part of one group and deemed qualified for t’other. I recall that a highly respected CM past poster Sue D’Nimh being once connected with DA’s mob searching for a certain C&F ROK. She set up her own neat ‘anemptyglass’ web site about 2016, but it was subsequently sold for debt to Gordon Cramer, then trashed in a fit of spiteful rage apparently. As for ‘Four Fat Ladies’ who were also active in the early days, they seem to have lost their appetite for SM oversaturation and left the mess to the less faint hearted…And so we that are left have gone cold.

  651. john sanders on October 25, 2020 at 12:44 am said:

    Largs Bay, Semaphor, Grange, Henley Beach, Glenelg, Brighton; all spaced evenly along a 7 mile stretch of Adelaide foreshore in 1948 according to the old Fuller’s street directory. All were drawcards for intending local or out of town beach goers with their busy jetties, similar means of transport from town eg., rail, tram, bus or taxi. We might do well to consider Somerton Man’s dilemma in a new light and to appreciate what he was confronted with on that Tuesday upon leaving the train. Armed only with rough directions to his desired destination via ‘Jetty Road’ hastily copied from a fellow traveller’s Adelaide beach map onto the cover of his pocket ROK in an improvised short hand…

  652. john sanders on October 25, 2020 at 4:27 am said:

    BROWN FAUN TROUSERS in big bold letters could well be a clue to our fiction writer’s intriguing Tamam Shud finale to his latest ‘Riddle of the Sands’ novel which has been summarised at Tbt for review. FAUN is known to the ancient Greeks and Romans and takes the form of a lustful horned billy goat man (bit like your modern internet TROLL). The number 35 is a similatly named ogre in other ancient cultures, and if true could also represent horny old Prestige Johnson’s age in 1948.

  653. john sanders on October 25, 2020 at 10:54 am said:

    I T T M S A M S T G A B, If the last code line equates to: Interchange, Transit, Terminal, Moseley, The Broadway, Sth. Esplinade, Alvington, Mansion, Somerton?, Sailing Club?, Sand dunes (cross S no thoroughfare)?, Turnabout, Glenelg, Along, Beach…then it fits with a gent from the bush, come in to attend a dead mate’s wake at The Broadway pub on Tuesday 30/11/48. Next morn he misses the train home to Hamley Bridge due to ticket mix up with Henley Beach (same booth and platform). Takes a bus back out to Glenelg intent on doing a pre-plotted scenic walk of two miles to the Hove dunes and back…Some will see this as merely the variation on a theme I put forward earlier (more than once). It might be worth some thought and comment, perhaps not.

  654. milongal on October 25, 2020 at 10:02 pm said:

    There’s a jetty in each of the places you mention, but not a jetty road at each of them (Semaphore doesn’t have one, “Semaphore Road” leads to the jetty), and I don’t think Henley (Main St) has one either. In fact, just checking SandsMac and there’s only the 3 jetty roads (Brighton, Glenelg, Largs) – Grange is “Jetty St”. All of them (as you point out) on different rail lines – I think Brighton was on “Marino (Rocks)” (later Noarlunga, today Seaford line), Glenelg was it’s own (tram) line (originally it was heavy rail), Grange was on the Henley Line, and Largs was on the Outer Harbor (sic) line.

    Not that it’s important, but I would describe them as evenly spaced “in pairs” – Largs/S4, Grange/Henley, Glenelg/Brighton.

    Not sure if I ever mentioned it here (I don’t think I did because I came up with nothing), but I did pore over railway maps at one stage hoping to hind stations that matched bits of the “code”. Q is obviously problematic (Queenstown doesn’t have a train line and as best I know never has had (Port Adelaide and Alberton do – but they’re on the Outer Harbor line (which shares the line with Henley to Woodville)

    I also considered if ITT was something like “I’ll take train maybe, ….” – but didn’t go anywhere…..and I really think the last letter (or possibly as many of the last 3 letters) look like a signature…..possibly even a flourished R rather than a B

    Ranty as ever….

  655. john sanders on October 25, 2020 at 11:42 pm said:

    Milongal: You may need to get hold of older rail link maps to get the guts on the Jetty Road scenario etc. in the days of horse and cart, any sort of rail feeder leading down to a sea wharf extension was ‘Jetty Road’. From memory the on/off loading platform before Henley Beach terminus (later abandoned) was signnposted as such. As for Cramer’s ubiquitus flourished R which you seem to now favour, then why stop there; We could exchange V for the I before T T and D to replace O with it’s new X3258 phone number in micro on the vertical post too. I wonder if we might now re consider saddle nose Fedupimov who might give the new SM images a run for their money and the brilliantly conceived Danetta code, which I believe is coming hack into vogue.

  656. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 3:09 am said:

    It’s a fact, says Cramer, a man known to fib through his teeth, that it is extremely unusual for a man of the SM’s estimated age (40/45) to have been missing so many of his teeth ‘in 1948’. I’d like to know on which planet this worthy might have spent his 73 years of pearly white existence. Most men of SM’s age would have been well short of naturals and many would have had full denture sets in Australia in the post war era. I suspect that their wives were likewise so indentured, which if true, might dispell belief that missing molars in adult males could be attributed to bad dental hygene during both wars. Go and get fitted with falsies Gordon; they’ll suit your phony persona.

  657. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 4:46 am said:

    For those interested in a little trivia re ‘Jetty Road’ Henley Beach, known as Main St. for yonks, was the childhood domicile of SA Attorney General John Rau, the bloke who was adamant that SM would be exhumed over his dead body. John’s father Arthur and his grandma Margaret KEANE, had lived there from the twenties, dad serving with 352 Sqn. RAAF in WW2. On his RTA in ’45 he caught his wife Mabel in frangrant delicto with some stud from Pt. Perie (she didn’t learn) and Art married John’s mum in the mid fifties?..Not saying that ex AG Rau had any notion about the possibility of being caught up in an embarrassing family affair not of his making, but one could be well justified in asking whether his uncle Somerton might not be a little pissed with efforts to keep him down.

  658. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 8:49 am said:

    Not that it means much to me, but to some it could well be the Holy Grail. It is on NAA file that John Rau’s German born elderly namesake relative was suspected by some of supporting a post WW1 German retaliation. A supportive police report was enough to have his old age pension restored although in 1986 some parts of the long dead man’s file were blocked for security reasons. Just goes to show to what lengths a barrister at law and budding politition will go to in protecting the good family name from exposure, no matter if it related to kin born in the 1850s.

    Prosper’s numerous ads are well known by now and they keep coming back to drive us nuts, especially ones like Peteb’s frequently trotted out gem about his wanting to spend fifteen hundred ill gained nicker on a bungalow in a better location. Most would be aware that Prosper was fishing and the flash of colour was likely part of some fiddle allbeit just before SM’s DDay. Who knew that John Rau’s dad Arthur and Prosper were the same age, both being ex servicemen and most interesting it seems that both were living in Main St. Henley Beach in 1947 at least.

  659. john sanders: in 1947, Prosper’s Henley Beach address was indeed 7 Main St (which, then as now, isn’t a very long street). Do you know what number Arthur Rau’s house was?

  660. 04 Jan 1947: WANTED car, tourer, sedan. or rdst., reasonable order. £50 to £200, by ex serviceman for business: consider buck-board Full particulars as condition and price. Will inspect 50 mile radius Adelaide. Thomson, 7 Main st.. Henley Beach, after 1 pm, or Sunday.

    22 Jan 1947: CAMERA Hertie F.4.5 lens, 5 speed shutter, takes 16 pictures on 127 film, small, compact job, carrying case, films, exchange for crystal water set and fruit set. Thomson, 7 Main st., Henley Beach

    22 Jan 1947: UTILITY Bedford coupe front. 10 h p.. 1935. NSPR £210. appearance as new. exchange for 8 to 14 h.p. car. 1938 or later. Thomson. 7 Main st.. Henley Beach.

    27 Jan 1947: WANTED 10 to 14 h.p. car or utility, urgent, pay your price, cash or take over terms. Home week-end or inspect anywhere. Thomson, 7 Main St., Henley Beach

    01 Feb 1947: MORRIS 10-h.p. 1940 saloon, series M, similar, as now being sold as 1947 models, for £635, previously owned by Melbourne doctor, exceptionally well kept. Just driven overland by me, averaged 38
    m.p.gal., performed perfectly, NSPR £288 Exchange for larger sedan and cash diff. Thomson, 7 Main st., Henley Beach

    15 Feb 1947: WANTED, 1928 to 1932 American sedan, tourer or roadster, pay good price. Thomson, 7 Main st., Henley Beach, week-end.

    15 Feb 1947: MANTEL 5-valve Mickey Mouse, good interstate performance, perfect order, modern plastic cabinet, cost £19/19/-. accept £14 cash. Thomson. 7 Main st, Henley.

    22 Feb 1947: CAMERA, Kodak, folding. No. 2A, double lens, as new; sell or exchange for auto. .22 rifle. Thomson. 7 Main st, Henley Beach

    25 Aug 1948: ELECT. eng., 50, many years’ exp., foreman, manager, contracts, maintenance, diploma “A” grade, Vic. licence, ex. refs. 7 Main st.. Henley

  661. 23 Jun 1933: The following applications for renewal of billiard licenses were also dealt with by the Adelaide Licensing Court on Thursday : —
    Ceduna. — Cyril T. Morgan.
    Cummins. — Arthur B. Rau.
    Kimba. — James L. Ware.

    29 Jun 1934: A new billiards licence has been issued to Arthur B. Rau, of Cummins.

    12 Jul 1935: Renewals — Billiards.— Cleve, Robert J. Bowshire ; Cummins, Arthur B. Rau.

    20 Oct 1944: Leading Aircraftman Arthur Rau has been spending leave with his wife and family at Pirie West.

    12 Sep 1946: Except where otherwise stated, decrees nisi for divorce were granted in the following undefended actions: —
    Arthur Bruce Rau, of Main street, Henley Beach, against Mabel Edith Rau, of Mansom street, Port Pirie, on the ground of adultery with Wallace Henry Yates, of Victor Harbor.

  662. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/118358594/arthur-bruce-rau
    Arthur Bruce Rau of 452 Spitfire Squadron RAAF.
    Birth 17 Sep 1911 Evanston, Gawler, South Australia, Australia
    Death 7 Apr 1983 (aged 71) Adelaide, Adelaide City, South Australia, Australia

    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194525777/mabel-edith-warner
    Mabel Edith Siviour Warner
    Birth 4 Aug 1915 Cummins, District Council of Lower Eyre Peninsula, South Australia, Australia
    Death 14 Apr 1982 (aged 66) Port Pirie Regional Council, South Australia, Australia

  663. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 10:38 am said:

    Nick: Excellent, could’ve come from my old notes destroyed when Gordon Cramer started a fire under Sue d’ Nimh’s ‘anemptyglass’, but for the Rau’s holiday and the billiards bit which I can’t recall seeing.

    I’m not sure I checked with S & M for Main St. back then which of course terminated at Jetty Road station, last on the old Henley Beach line. I’ll try to get Derek’s 1946/47 search up and have a gander unless you’ve done so..?

  664. https://www.facebook.com/422543974561696/posts/memories-of-my-parents-john-joseph-doudle-and-alice-cora-wilsonwritten-by-kathle/1423416161141134/

    When wireless needed replacing with cabinet model, Mother wanted a Stromberg Carlson, Dad brought home on trial a Healing. Oh Boy! The silence was deafening! Mother must have ā€œwonā€ because a Stromberg Carlson, From Arthur Rau, Cummins, was duly installed.

  665. john sanders: everything I have (which isn’t genuinely a great deal) is here, so please feel free to look Arthur Rau up in S & M etc.

  666. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 11:24 am said:

    OK, we have a Mrs. G.W. Rowe at 15 Main Street which is probably Gertrude Rau who should come up being related to Authur Bruce’s father John and Grandfather Johan Gustav of NAA security file fame. Four doors east of Prosper’s address and a little more digging this end will come up with some additional detail I suspect.

  667. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 11:44 am said:

    Nah, Bruce William James bn.1890 was Arthur’s pop. It was Bruce’s missus Margaret Alice bn.1890 who’s dad was John Keane from Barossa and they married in 1910. Back a little and we’ll get to the Germans who were Port Adelaide and Gawler folk.

  668. NAA says: (date range 1939-1948, no digital copy available)
    RAU ARTHUR BRUCE : Service Number – 48442 : Date of birth – 17 Sep 1911 : Place of birth – GAWLER SA : Place of enlistment – ADELAIDE : Next of Kin – RAU MABEL

  669. 03 Aug 1933: CUMMINS
    About 40 friends gathered at the home of Mr and Mrs. Alec Greenshields to celebrate the coming of age of their eldest son, Cyril. A competition was won by Miss Melva Siviour. Mr. Ernie Laube and Mr. Arthur Rau supplied the dance music. Mr. R. T. Torr was M.C.

  670. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 1:16 pm said:

    One might consider that when Derek first sought the exhumation order through the appropriate avenue (AG’s Office) in 2011, John Rau would have sought all available records from police indices and followed it up for favour of approval or rejection along normal lines as might be expected. As a barrister by calling he would naturally have been very thorough which would have extended to Cipher Mysteries online threads without any doubt. As soon as he saw things to do with Prosper’s Main street adds and names like Keane staring at him, one might well imagine the basket almost choking on his lunch break pasty, especially as he grew up in the very street. His highschool at Henley being less than five hundred metres from the old home place would have given the mugger no choice but to put a big red line through the application, with notation “Not On Your Sweet Nellie Mate”.

  671. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 1:29 pm said:

    Cummins (Tumby Bay) is Feltus country, wonder Gerry didn’t pick up on the name Rau from his folks.

  672. John Sanders: I’m just interested to know what Arthur Bruce Rau was doing to get by in Henley Beach post WWII. Not a lot of Spitfires to be flown there.

  673. john sanders on October 26, 2020 at 3:05 pm said:

    Yeah 452 Squadron don’t tell me..I’ve found some scraps of paper with names to follow up including relatives of Rau’s in Broken Hill. If it’s of interest Bob Bungey DFC of Somerton was Squadron Leader of 452 until Bluey Truscott DFC took over and after him I think Edgar C. Johnson DFC and two bars from memory. Bluey died in ’43 in NT, Edgar Johnson went onto be an Air Marshall. Poor Bob who had lived at 3 Tarlton St., a hundred yards from 90A Moseley St., and had just lost his wife to leukemia, blew his brains out just down the beach from Alvington in early June ’43 leaving Const. Moss to clean up the mess and get his critically wounded year old lad to the Crippled Children’s home across the street… Spitfire Leader by Richard Bungey 77 would be a good read and a CD comes with it I’m told.

  674. milongal on October 26, 2020 at 10:06 pm said:

    The thing with confusing Jetty Road for Main St, is that we have one of those conundrums we invariably find in this case where you have to simultaneously believe 2 opposing ideas – namely that SM was unfamiliar with Adelaide and assumed Jetty Rd referred to Henley even though Main St being formally Jetty Rd (if it was) would only really be known by people who had been to Henley and seen the sign. So if there is an old map that refers to it as Jetty Rd that he would be likely to have seen, or if some local is incorrectly advising him then *maybe*, but otherwise how does he even know the wrong Jetty Rd exists?

    With the obvious caveat/disclaimer that wen know S&M is not always up to date and/or accurate (and that they might list owner rather than tenant in some circumstances)…
    Rau went to Henley High (off Henley Beach Rd) which supports the idea they were local…..but can’t find them in Henley itself in SMd (I’ve had a look at random volumes from 1930 to 1970). I have:
    1950 & 1960 & 1964 & 1970 RAU A. B. Ferryden Park (Western Suburbs, inland from Henley)
    in 1946 there’s a Mrs E M RAU in Mile End (First suburb from City of Adelaide toward Henley) (possibly Mabel Edith?)
    It caught my eye that there’s a W Rau (Driver) at 64 Shierlaw St Richmond – I’m sure this is coincidence, but I think this is 2 doors up from a JJ Keane who we’ve mentioned in passing before….

    That said, I think there were appartments on Main St that might have been short-term staying (if Rau is holidaying away from Pirie or is in the process of moving to Adelaide and living there while he finds more permanent residence).
    Incidnetally, 7 Main St comes back as “Miss Ward” – who we may have mentioned before (name rings a bell) – but might be in looking up specifically that address before

    And re the Billiard License at Cummins – that’s on the Eyre Peninsula – about a day’s drive from Adelaide (other side of the Spencer Gulf from Pirie, and considerably South)

  675. milongal on October 26, 2020 at 10:33 pm said:

    Forget EM being Mabel Edith (there’s a lot of EM Rau)

    @JS: I hve AB Rau’s father as Bruce William James RAU d1960 Gawler (not John).
    Which as a side means he has an older brother Douglas Keath (sic)
    and younger siblings Daphne Alice and Leslie Leonard

  676. milongal on October 26, 2020 at 10:37 pm said:

    @JS: Your Edgar Johnson wouldn’t be that same EC Johnson? I assume that was sort of why you’ve included him (sorry if I’m a bit slow)

  677. john sanders on October 27, 2020 at 3:52 am said:

    The difficulties with tracing Arthur Bruce’s post war activities are examplified by a seemingly determined attempt to bury him good and deep to kerp away the flies. I’d be surprised if he didn’t stay with his pre war occupation of involvement in SP operations, as evidenced by the billiard hall licence at Cummins alongwith dealing in receiver radios and expertise in electronics. It would seem more likely that the ’47 S & M people made a double blunder at the 15 Main St address and B. W. Rau was recoded as G. W. Rowe, easy enough for me and milongal is hunting around town trying to expand on some crooked ex polititians attempts to put us off.

    As for Bruce William James Rau’s wife Margaret and the all important Keane side, it might have proven rather difficult in light of her sixteen sibling family (1884-1906) background; but made easier by the simple fact that we already know most of family and the Dicker rels. from our old disasterous ‘two new Keane’ thread. Could bw we have additional connections to illegal gaming, unlicensed radios, if memory serves me correctly. We might also be mindful that the Barossa Keanes were Kains until 1886, then by 1908 John Richard had moved his tribe to Adelaide where He died in 1935.

  678. john sanders on October 27, 2020 at 8:21 am said:

    milongal: Most of the Rau/Kean mob are covered at Willaston cemetery, not Arthur who’s down Enfield way with no sign of a lady who would be ex AG John’s mum. Notice he’s cleverly arranged for no family background to polute his fine online bio…..As for ‘Johno’ Johnson RAF, no not related to ‘four fingers’ Edgar Johnson.

  679. john sanders on October 27, 2020 at 12:10 pm said:

    A gut feeling let me down with the Rau/Rowe deal for 15 Main street which turns out to be a blessing in disguise as it confirms that those two related families tie in with the Kean/Kain clan to form a close knit blood relationship. Better still the revelation that old County Cork born Patriarch John Richard Kean lies at rest in the tiny Willaston, Gawler cemetery with the second and third string Rau mob is quite encouraging. In the words of old Zulu hero Colour Sergeant Bourne, “There’s thousands of them” so all we have to do is to consentrate on the third generation and come up with a viable contender for a T. Keane or two amongst them (unlikely bonus) to sort the wheat from the chaff. It’s on with the motley then and no truer words spoken, if you get my drift.

  680. john sanders: even though we know the date when Arthur Bruce Rau got divorced, we don’t know when they actually separated (it would surely surprise nobody if his wife’s affair had started during the war). So it’s entirely possible that ABR was staying with some friends or relatives in Main street, Henley Beach, right? I guess the place we would (eventually) be able to find this would be in the 1947 Australian census.

  681. john sanders on October 27, 2020 at 1:35 pm said:

    Nick: You certainly have a point, but to contend that he might only have been at the address temporarily is in doubt when one considers his 1943 RAAF sign up locality of nearby Grange, as opposed to Gawler where many of his family had moved to and that he ran a billiard hall in far off Cummins way back in the thirties Truth is we just don’t know but I still feel comforted in the knowledge that son john went to school just half a click from Main Street. It also turns out that two of his aunts married into Rowe families, which of itself connects with number 15. I guess the best way to find out is to pull his WW2 file which may help, or as you say local electoral rolls and see where it takes us….

  682. john sanders on October 27, 2020 at 2:36 pm said:

    Up date of sorts concerning John Rau QC is that he still resides in Henley Beach but his home address although restricted could be Seaview Road; though must take care as another John Rau (electrician) is in nearby Military Rd., likely a relly. I have his PO box and home/office emails and phone contacts which are all in the public domain. Oh and John is said to be Keane on gardening, cooking and reading non fiction (sorry Peteb and Gordon).

  683. milongal on October 27, 2020 at 10:52 pm said:

    @JS – not sure how well you know Adelaide, but Gawler (these days part of metropolitan Adelaide) was a district in its own right encompassing Willaston (and to my mind Two Wells, Mallala, Virginia and Hamley Bridge (which you may recall as being touted as possible mix-ups with Henley Beach – in fact from memory there was a train station at Hamley Bridge, though I don’t remember whether I worked out if you could easily reach it from Adelaide railway station (it would be recorded somewhere on this site, so I’ll have a search)). (not far) beyond Gawler to the NNE you hit Tanunda and Nuriootpa – the Barossa Valley. I don’t know the exact history, but I associate Willaston and Lyndoch more with Gawler than the Barossa (even though Angaston is clearly closer to the Barossa – so perhaps I’m confusing it with Willaston).
    Slightly straighter North (through Kapunda) you get to the “other” Northern Wine district – the Clare Valley (which I think also gets a mention in some of the stuff we’ve been digging through). Point I’m getting to in a roundabout way is that if the Rau’s are all ex-Gawler and the Keane’s are all ex-Barossa then they’re not all that far apart (and if they have farming backgrounds likely mixed at rural markets and shows from time to time).
    Interesting that Arthur is down Enfield way, but if he was the only metro-Adelaide of the clan it’s probably one of the most likely places to end up (Enfield is other side of town to Henley, but there isn’t really a cemetry I can think of in that area (although Cheltenham, West Tce, Brighton and probably Centennial Park would be just as close if not closer – not that any of them are any more or less logical).

    Regarding the Henley connection….I think AB Rau (that’s not bad for the flourished AB/AR at the end of the code?) recently moved to the area, and might be staying in temporary appartment (or even a holiday house), and later moved somewhere more permanent (I have him in Ferryden Park by 1950 (haven’t worked exactly when he apperars there, but from memory after ’48).
    I also have him on the electoral roll in Gawler in ’41 (can’t see the record, but can see the existence of the record)).
    FindMyPast lists his birth as Evanston (which these days is a suburb within the Gawler council, but back then would be vast open space). I can’t find a record of a hospital in Evanston (not helped that google finds one in Evanston, Illinois – and called North Shore šŸ™‚ ). I’m not certain whether “Place of birth” refers to “where parents were living at the time” or “actual locationl (normally hospital) where birth occured”.

    According to the ever misleading ’49 S&M, we have Rau’s at:
    Balaklava (AC Rau)
    Gawler (DK Rau 21st st) (HGW Rau 20th St)
    Longwood (AC Rau …gardener)
    McLaren Flat (Wm….junior labourer (I think))
    Whyalla (Lawrence A Rau)

    And in the metro area:
    Mitcham (AL Rau 4 Tutt st)
    Everard Park (AL Rau 12 Grove Ave)
    Flinders Park (EA Rau)
    Wayville (J Rau, Taxidermist, 7 Goodwood Rd)
    Colonel Light Gardens (J Rau 12 Tidworth cres)
    Torrensville (Mrs EA Rau 40 East St)
    And the Shierlaw St Richmond one mentioned before

    Noticing that occasionally names in general are listed in the index in one order and in the street listing in another (eg EA Rau is also AE Rau – so don’t put too much weight on initial ordering).

  684. john sanders on October 28, 2020 at 6:50 am said:

    I’m certain that I’ve eliminated all john Rau’s great uncle Keane(s) from contention, if that had been what tge AG’s exhumation denial was based on. In fact his grand mother Margaret’s Keane brothers were all too old apart from young Horace (04) who’s cleared. That doesn’t necessarily exempt John A. who was older brother James Edward’s first born (1907) and who has managed to defeat my searches thus far. It seems that another John (Jack) was born in 1916, so maybe Beatrice Marie Keane nee Rowe’s first issue didn’t live long enough to have a death record. The old dear was a widow of sixty years when she passed on at 105 in ’95.

  685. john sanders on October 28, 2020 at 3:10 pm said:

    For those genealogy lovers into family trees and work connecting charts, it’d be a fairly straight forward task to connect S. A. Attorney General John Rau, from his grandfather Bruce William and father Authur Bruce’s immediate family through to the SM finish line. It involves participation by South Australian Museum boss Herbert Hale and his most able co-opted field team J. B. Cleland, C. S. Hicks, Norm Tindale with assistants Alan Rau, Charles Rau and last but not least John James Rau, who mentored a ‘Keane’ young Paul Francis Lawson to take over his role as chief taxidermist in the late thirties. It was Hale and Cleland, through CIB Chief W. O. Sheridan (see press) and Snr. Det. Sgt. Geoffrey Leane (not Lionel) who must have set up the SM dud bust ID sting in my opinion, but to what end, I have no definitive notion…as yet.

  686. milongal on October 29, 2020 at 4:13 am said:

    NB: the Hamley Bridge / Henley Beach thought seems to have come up in relation to Mangnoson and Alma:

    http://ciphermysteries.com/2013/11/01/keith-mangnosons-first-near-death-experience#comment-346379

  687. milongal on October 29, 2020 at 4:17 am said:

    also re the other J Harkness (and Fedosimov??):
    http://ciphermysteries.com/tamam-shud-somerton-man#comment-358530

    and also on a long 2018 post:
    “Incidentally, while looking up SAR stuff on Wiki I found a suggestion that Hamley Bridge was listed as a post-WWII route from Adelaide Railway Station….”

  688. john sanders on October 29, 2020 at 5:08 am said:

    The mistakes made by John B. Cleland in attempts to cover-up his involvement in the Somerton Man death are now more obvious and provable than when raised initially some time back. It is unfortunate that no one then, nor since has raised doubts on the great man’s related claims which stand out as fibs even moreso now that his motives are more clearly defined. NB the following examples in support:-

    1. J C claimed to have found the TS slip in an easily missed fob during his search of SM’s trousers and had difficulty in finding it again, to absolve cops of any tardiness.
    2. J C claimed not to know what Tamam Shud meant; yet he was multi lingual and must surely have known the Persian word for ‘The End’ which later when informed, said it supported his view, that in all probability SM had suicided hence his farwell.
    3. J C did not let cops in on his find for 5 weeks, an ommission based on not having yet decided whether there would be need to go ahead with the ROK back-up ruse.
    4. J C could not name a likely COD with any confidence. Cleland was a pathologist and an authority on exotic potions known to him from his anthopological studies. He was also a world authority on antipodean toadstools plus divers organic/plant based poisons like curare.
    5. J C Having a need to access the body before it’s disposal and becoming manic when prevented. He was not interested in a brain that he knew to be missing; in fact he was likely intent on planting a seed in the cavity, not harvesting tissue.
    6. J C erred with regard to his misidentificatiin of the ROK dump car, timing, place and proposed method of placement therein, plus later handover story.
    7. J C Making bold claim to the effect that SM was obviously a Britisher. Had he had not seen the body until at least March ’49, by which time such accurate profiling would not be impossible. SM was probably not of British ancestry based on this.

  689. john sanders on October 29, 2020 at 7:03 am said:

    Looks look like John James Rau’s son Alan and not Paul Lawson, took over as top taxidermist at the SA museum in ’39, a post he held til the fifties or later. By then Paul seems to have gravitated to entertaining fossil search archeologists in field studies. He had been assigned to do the bust as a one off for his boss Herb Hale who had himself originally signed on for the SM job at Cleland’s urging. Paul would certainly remember working with the Rau’s and must be well familiar with modern day AG John Rau rejecting Derek Abbott’s exhumation petition. I wonder if he has anything on his mind worth airing for peace of mind.

  690. john sanders on October 29, 2020 at 8:49 am said:

    Milongal: Hamley bridge was positioned conveniently to be used as a switch depot for several interconnecting inter/intra state wide and narrow gauge lines, as well as being the inland railway marshalling yard closest to Adelaide. It’s usefulness was reduced with introduction before the WW2 of a common gauge but it’s lease of life renewed during the war years for troop movement re supply and munitions. Even though I was based closeby in the mid sixties, I can’t recall ever passing through there and I had not heard of the place until you introduced it, as per your kindly reminder. Like to visit one day; just picture it ‘Country town with willows & squares and farmers bouncing on barrel mares…..and 1860 over the doors &c’. (Slessor).

  691. john sanders on October 29, 2020 at 11:44 am said:

    milogal: As an adendum to the Henley Beach/Hamley Bridge conundrum, I do believe that my previous related post has an air of some credibility in view that both services likely sharing the same XX ticket box purchase and platform 9 departure point. I know that over many years people hold the wrongly held view that the found Henley Beach ticket was not punched, as offered by Feltus in his flawed assessment. If one cares to analyse the newspaper reporting of the case, it becomes clear that most held the view that the departure platform access was in fact punched. This confirms that the ticket holder had gone through the gate to board, but never did for some reason. a reasonable assumption would seem to be as I suggested, that he only realised the mix up then by a check of his ticket and/or turned back upon finding that the morning service to Hamley Bridge had already departed…

  692. milongal on October 29, 2020 at 11:01 pm said:

    With the obvious dislcaimer that the 40s/50s are (well) before my time…..
    And that railways in SA have changed significantly since then (the abolishment of routes, and various gauge changes, the casino etc etc)…..

    I *think* the ticket offices were at the Northern End, Western Side of the concourse (where there used to be access to the Festival Centre – back then II don’t know if there was an entry there there back then (but from memory I think that’s where the city baths would have been). Roughly in the spot where these days the old clock (and I think a historical display) is. I assume that the gates to the platform were still roughly in the same location they are now (Halfway between North Tce and the ticket boxes, although I don’t think the entrance from the tram stop (down the stairs) existed, but rather the main entry was the ramp down from the corner of North Tce, and what today is Station Rd (I suspect this roadway didn’t exist then, but not sure) bringing you down just South of the middle, coming down in an Easterly direcion. Back then, the platforms would have been open air (the were enclosed in the 80s or 90s when the Casino (and possibly hotel?) took up residence). Most of the Southern end (eg the walkway under North Tce) is much newer, however near there I suspect the toilets (SOuthern End, Eastern Side) were likely the station Baths, and the newsagent next to them may have been a refreshment room. On the other side of the ramp was the Cloak Room (at some stage I think this might have been a refreshment room too), and I think more recently that has become a driver meal room (or at least a place for drivers to retreat from the public). Because Adelaide is not through-running, trains are usually left unattended at the station between runs (I have no idea whether this would have been the same in the age of steam, but I’d assume there were all sort of tasks associated with running engines around).

    Through the gates, I assume the platform numbering was much the same as the current set up (although not sure whether the current count of platforms (9) reflects that age). I remember reasonably major work around platform 9 in the 90s – but I can’t remember whether that was a platform extension (or similar) or (I think more likely) a re-alignment of the track coming out of the station. I have only the vaguest recollection of interstate trains (more specifically the Overland) using Adelaide Railway Station, as interstate movements were moved to Keswick Railway Terminal when it opened in the early 1980s (I have a vague idea that AdMet remained on a different gauge for some time (but pretty sure eventually the gauge was eventually converted from Broad to Standard – even on the metro lines, but not sure). I don’t remember whether the interstate station was part of the metro concourse, or whether it was a separate platform or two deeper into the Adelaide Yard (I have mixed recollections about this…..to the point where I can even imagine access to the interstate platforms almost directly off North Tce near Morphett St Bridge)
    In any event, I assume railways try to minimise the amount of switching required (even though I think by then it would have been centralised to the swtiching booth (might still be there, albeit obviously unused) between the branches where the Southern (Noarlunga/Brighton/Bridgewater/Mt Barker – these routes all leave to the South even if they end up travelling East) and Northern (Outer Harbor/Gawler/Henley Beach) split (just in front of the Torrens, near the Old Adelaide Gaol). So this meant as a general rule, service would leave from a particular platform.

    In my lifetime, I remember 9 platforms, with Gawler Central line typically using platforms 7,8,9. Outer Harbor 5-9, Grange 4-7 (not sure why they rarely used 8 and 9 – it shares track with OH), and the other routes 1-5 (they’re not services I often caught, so I couldn’t elaborate which ones where). There were also some other minor services (Dry Creek) and at different times some unusual ones that bypassed the yard and station (I remember a service that used to cut from Dry Creek onto the Outer Harbor line (I think entering somewhere near Alberton); and I’m almost certain that for a few years there were special Glanville to Goodwood services during the Royal Adelaide Show (September) – though I don’t ever remember catching one (I think it used to come to the edge of the Adelaide Yard, and then sweep around the swtiching booth from earlier onto the Southern lines)
    That said, the Adelaide yard (as any yard) has very many switches, and I think in extreme circumstances (breakdowns, maintenance and situations where for whatever reason a different train was allocated than expected) I think I have caught an OH service from almost any platform (probably not #1, and possibly not #2).
    I also vaguely remember there might have also been some non-metro special services still using the Railway station (definitely the Barossa Bluebird (platform 9), and there was a steam train that used to run the OH line on some weekends). I also remember the Bridgewater (possibly even Mt Barker) line being shortened to Belair – but I don’t recall whether this was more driven by patronage, gauge compatibility or something else (I do know that as Mt Barker has boomed more recently, there has been an increased voice to reopen the line to there (my mail is morning peak service buses are leaving Mt Barker Railway Station (their 1st stop) absolutely overloaded and not able to pick up through the town before even reaching the freeway).

    But we digress…..

    So the short version of that, is that the Northern lines (like Hamley Bridge) likely would have left from platform 9 or equivalent (however as I sort of implied above, I wouldn’t be surprised if interstate services (in particualr Vic) had a separate set of platforms sort of detached from the Railway Station concourse. Which actually makes sense, because visitors transferring from an interstate line would likely need to get a fresh ticket (and potentially use the baths) so there’s no real advantage having them on the same platforms….

    Incidentally, if Wiki is to be believed, Hamley Bridge ceased to be the Gauge Break in 1927 when Broad Gauge was extended to Gladstone.

    Finally, re the ticket. I’ve often tried to find out at what point the ticket should have been punched. At the gate or on the train? (until relatively recently (2000s) tickets on AdMet were required to pass through the gates at the station __but were not actually cancelled/activated/validated until onboard a train__. I have a vague recollection that in the most recent age of punched tickets (80s maybe 90s) you could get through the gates without a ticket and buy one from the conductor on board. Clearly SM’s ticket was purchased at the booth, but whether it was punched on the station or on the train (or somewhere else) is anyone’s guess. There’s a trove article that I think best describes the confusion, where it explains something like “…the ticket had been cancelled, but as he had a tramways ticket to Glenelg, presumably not used….”
    So my interpretation is that given the presence of 2 tickets that both appeared used, they assumed the one to the closer location was actually used (with as far as I can tell, very little to base that assumption on, other than the bus ticket must have been purchased on the actual bus, therefore whoever bought it had definitely been on the bus (and since the bus left after the train…..). But IMO we don’t actually know HE used any/either of them, and I’m not sure the St Leonard’s assumption is all that much better than a Henley assumption (and someone, possibly you JS suggested at one stage he may have caught the Henley train 1 stop – or jumped off in the yard – or something similar (in fact….I don’t know that the yard was necessarily fenced back then, and (especially if there was another interstate platform like I suggested above) it would be easy enough to leave the train while it’s slowly navigating the yard and make your way to a bus stop – possibly nearer Morphett St (or where UNISA CityWest is now), or even on West Tce). Remember the bus conductor could only agree the ticket had been sold in the first section, not the specific stop…..

    apologies for the long, and largely off topic rant

  693. john sanders on October 30, 2020 at 9:17 am said:

    I recall bringing up another case scenario of SM having being more familiar with the Henley Beach line set up than we might suspect, that is to say he may have bought his ticket for use on the Henley Beach to city trip later in the day. He would have known that Jetty Road platform (Main St.) was unattended and valid pre purchased tickets would avoid possibility being had up for fare evasion. I don’t necessarilly hold the view that this was the case, but I can’t see a problem with the concept. It should have occurred to Feltus to discuss such foibles with his Adelaide rail expert ‘Tiny’.

  694. john sanders on October 30, 2020 at 2:02 pm said:

    They don’t give a bloke too much help in the Rau camp, though it appears more likely as not that ex AG John Rau’s mum is Audrey Robinson bn. 1923 Gawler, which would have made her 36 at his birth. Sad part is that she passed in 2013 and unlike her old man Arthur Bruce Rau, has nothing to tell grave searchers at Enfield anthing about her past life. At the time of her passing her son was the member for Enfield, but did not reside there as we’re well aware.

  695. john sanders on October 31, 2020 at 6:24 am said:

    Ever heard of ‘The Unknown Woman’ who went missing from NSW in 2005, later gaoled in Qld without charge and later transfered from an Immigration detention centre at Port Augusta to Parkside in Adelaide suffering from a Bi Polar condition. She was suspected to be a German overstay having no valid papers but she had identified herself as Anna Schultze. Turns out our alien had spent most of her 39 years in Australia, worked a decade or more as a Qantas flight attendant and spoke with a clear Australian accent. After authorities in three states and the Feds realised their error and notified a releived family, they did a whip around and gave the not so frauline $2.2 mil. to deep six her false imprisonment claims including solitary confinement. Don’t know whether MP John RAU SC had known of Miss Cornelia RAU’s ordeal, I suspect so. Nothing like his own deep six solution for the Somerton Man’s exhumation which he would likely have invoked as a means to defray any assertions of RAU/Keane family connections to the 70 year old case.

  696. john sanders on November 1, 2020 at 1:04 am said:

    Familiarity of Latin alphabet capital letter forms, a propos the sign off flourish of our ROK code last line terminal letter points to it being a fairly normal B according to most mainstream analysis. Suggesting that it could be a letter R is incongruous with any variations revealed on line, though I’ll admit that Gordon Cramer’s long held contrary view in this case does seem to have found favour amongst his alter anonymous believers and some others. Perhaps we might consider toning down any assertions that such nonsence could only have come from by a devious and seriously demented mind.

  697. I’m the one who is supposed to be devious and seriously demented, and I object most strenuously to having my status undermined by such an ill-informed opinion. You haven’t heard the last of this.

  698. Peteb: happy to provide a character reference if it will help.

  699. Thank you … but we hardly know each other. Does that matter?

  700. Peteb: that’s never stopped other people for even a heartbeat, don’t see why the same rules shouldn’t apply to me.

  701. john sanders on November 1, 2020 at 1:24 pm said:

    Peteb: I know nothing. Still trying go get my head around the Russian translation for your ‘caravanserai’ deal which is apparently some KGB code word that you picked up from your old mate.

  702. john sanders on November 2, 2020 at 12:17 am said:

    Cleland reportedly found the Rubaiyat Tamam Shud slip sometime in March or April 1949, after having gained private access to clothing worn by the dead man, from West Terrace mortuary and it would seem that he was alone when this most fortunate event occurred so there was no eureka moment. This occasion must not to be confused with the well covered event in June at police heaquarters when, in company with chemical analyst Robert Cowan, John Cleland described trying on clothing, including some from the Keane suitcase, as well as the Stamina trousers worn by Somerton Man when found.

    A fair assessment of the above would include strong possibility that Cleland’s delayed report was in order to do so at an appropriate point in time so as to coincide with a stage of the police investigation most suited to his discovery. This would prevent accusations of his having planted the slip to support a case for suicide and put any like suspicions on the police along similar lines. His description of the concealment factor and chance find would also serve to take heat off the cops in any suggestions of negligence during their initial body search.

  703. milongal on November 2, 2020 at 1:19 am said:

    خان

  704. john sanders on November 2, 2020 at 7:12 am said:

    I guess the passage of time and a decent interval will allow mention of a possible skeleton in John Rau’s closet, with due respect for his long departed half sister Mabel. It seems that his father Arthur and first wife Mabel Edith nee Siviour lost their only child at birth in Tumby Bay hospital in 1935. There are no burial records for the poor infant so it may well be that a still birth was recorded and her passing is unlikely to be known at all within the Rau family.

  705. john sanders on November 2, 2020 at 7:40 am said:

    milongal: With respect, your comment is acknowledged. Some elaboration would have been desirable just for the record, and in consideration for those who aren’t so familiar with Farci as she is spoke!

  706. john sanders on November 3, 2020 at 12:47 pm said:

    Looks like four more turbulent years of the Don. Only thing worse would be four dreary months of dismal Joe. God help America.

  707. Tamara Bunke on November 3, 2020 at 9:41 pm said:

    We can only hope your judgement is premature, Sanders, and that the yanqui tyrant is on his way out.

    Hasta la victoria siempre!

  708. Tamara Bunke: I think if you were to take all your betting advice from online commenters, you would soon be sleeping under newspapers in a shop doorway.

  709. john sanders on November 3, 2020 at 10:08 pm said:

    Tamara: But not any newspaper and not a shop doorway. The rag would have to be the Washington Post and Dade/Miami’s Domino Park would be fine for a short siesta before the Yanqui filth moved you on.

    Viva Cuba Libre!

  710. john sanders on November 5, 2020 at 8:21 am said:

    We’re all aware of the dozen or so Keane derivitives in common use with early settlers, mainly immigrants to South Australia in the mid 1800s and convicts to other states from earlier times. My research suggests that variations are likely to occur even within the same family clans over several generations even. If thinking that those known to us namely Keane, Kean or Keen should be able to identify an owner of items so marked in the left suitcase, think again and keep looking.

  711. john sanders on November 20, 2020 at 5:31 am said:

    Re-Pete: In re your quest for a detailed title description of ‘Gentleman’ Alf Boxall’s tastefully stocked bookshelf, plus evidence of a Sister J.E. Thomson being resident and phone subscriber at 90A Mosely St. Glenelg by early 1947, I invite you to re visit my authoritive related dual posts, 10.58am & 6.16am of September 28th. Don’t understand how you could have missed them, you being on the Misc. thread yourself shortly before and shortly thereafter with stuff about plain brown duds in the evening and boxes of matches found on a dampish body from memory.

  712. Trouble is, Sanders old fellow, I don’t believe a word you write … and I mean that most sincerely.

  713. john sanders on November 20, 2020 at 11:57 am said:

    Re-Pete…..And of course I wouldn’t expect you to believe otherwise, but don’t let it concern you for I’ll concede that you’re not Robinson Crusoe by a long stretch. Nontheless I’ll just keep on hammering away, trying my level best to convince poor weak minded souls like your good self, to maybe better understand the difference between fact and fancy. If you persist in depending upon others, similarly deficient in natural intuitive skills to slake your thirst for knowledge, then you’ll be in good company for a long dry spell in an SM limbo land my man!…Sincerely Yours.

  714. It wasn’t that long ago, was it Johnno, when you wrote about the Thomson’s being present at the unveiling of a new car at the time of the unfortunate death of T Keane.
    Well, we took the trouble to try to confirm this sighting by visiting Trove and generally asking around .. but found nothing.
    Which reminded us of those earlier claims of yours that sent a Canadian colleague off chasing wild gooses.
    You see, old sport, I’m onto you … but by all means have your fun, like me you’re nought but a harmless old duffer with too much time on his hands.

  715. Peteb: ‘harmless’ is perhaps a bit of a stretch.

  716. john sanders on November 20, 2020 at 10:54 pm said:

    Re-Pete: You referring to snow geese surely, not gooses unless plurals are no longer cool, and they fly south in winter in a big ‘V’ formation from memory. Anyhow you will need to apologise to both Byron and Bob for providing similar false information on the Thomson ’47 phone connection and gentleman Alf’s book shelf selection, for their information aped mine, allbeit with less detail and a lot later. As for the Thomson’s being definately in Melbourne for the Holden deal on 29/11/48, sounds like a reasonable synopsis and I’ll give it some more thought. I also checked with Trove and for starters found that a bloke named Ben Chiffley attended along with some hundreds of potential car thieves..

  717. Which reminds me, NickP, do the yanks have the equivalent of the Aus National Archive? Been looking and getting nowhere.

  718. Peteb: as far as I know, the Americans don’t have anything even 10% as useful as the NAA (there are paywalled newspaper archives, but Trove is miles better). At least with a needle in a haystack you can kid yourself that one day you’ll come back with a bloody great magnet.

  719. A pity no pic exists of the bobby pin found in suitcase, If Dude is right and the tools were used to get into and steal cars it would have been bent out of shape.

  720. john sanders on November 21, 2020 at 2:49 am said:

    Peteb: Here you go, two quotes from Clive and one from each us on the hilarious Black Market Scenario thread, all dated 22/10. Can’t imagine anyone with a spirit of fairness puting a fibber spin on that, unless you have some previous attribrution . I certainly remember a ‘scenario’ with the Thomsons and SM meeting on the train after a trip to Melbourne. Perhaps the Holden opening day came up or maybe not; who cares?.

    Clive Turner :- ” I read somewhere that Prosper & Jessie were in Melbourne on Monday 29th November for a new Holden unveilling. (Tweed Daily 29th November, 1948) “.
    ” Nothing more on P & J, but, ‘Tweed Daily’ NSW via TROVE gives infomation on a Holden event.

    Peter Bowes :- ” Sanders mentioned that event, also that PT etc. were there, the old stirrer. ”

    Response from john sanders on CM Misc. 22/10 8.20am. :-
    ” Peteb: You’ve got two impeccable sourses in Clive Turner-Walker and Tweed Daily (News Corp) rag telling you that the Thomsons were in Melbourne on 29/11/48 for the Holden launch; they rarely get it wrong. You’ll also need to know that the make do FX designation didn’t come until later, but even Dud 4711 wouln’t know that.”

  721. john sanders on November 21, 2020 at 6:10 am said:

    Nick: I must confess that whilst I find the tenuous Inside Story doco’s claims for the Boxall-Jestyn-Thomson-TS/ROK Somerton Man death involvement having the same level of credability as your Beale treasure cache, I’m still hooked on the unwavering facination which it provokes. Any trained investigator worth his detective’s title might be appalled at how so many false leads created by hearsay and inuendo could still hold sway in theories vis. likely identity, death attribution, causation and so on. A properly constituted investigation of these crucial elements was deemed to have been carried out satisfactorily by Det. A/Sgt. R.l. Leane and his team of uncorruptables and also through the Coroner’s inquest derived therefrom. As a consequence of the post inquest events in late July 1949 there was only a few proceedural formalities involving the nurse’s uncertain nomination of a Lt. Alf Boxall for SM. This being quickly and effectively dismissed upon Alf being found and subjected to questioning by Sydney’s finest under caution no doubt. Thomas Cleland, had he so chosen, would most certainly have re-convened the inquest had he considered the Freeman? ROK handover and the nurse’s well intended though unreliable information to be of any assistance whatsoever…That be the end game as far as expectations for any forseable outcome is concerned by my estimations. Notwithstanding I still have a number questions that need answers on plottings and brewings of Sir John B. Cleland in some perhaps personally motivated issues not necessarily to do with the beach death perse. One or two people still living could help resolve this dilemma including Paul Lawson and Neil Day for starters.

  722. The gentleman doth protesteth to much, methinks.

  723. john sanders on November 21, 2020 at 1:54 pm said:

    There can’t be any doubt about Clive’s gentlemanly credentials. In my mind any perceived protestethstation was as a consequence of his promter’s inability to come to terms with the possibilty that the Thomsons could be in Melbourne and Glenelg/Somerton at the same time. There’s a sucker born every day…Barnum

  724. john sanders on November 22, 2020 at 9:03 am said:

    Peteb: So now you know where the wild goose goes, perhaps you might try this one on your esteemed Canadian Colleague? MM as a favour…..On the once free and most informative SA Genialogy site we have a Rita Kathleen Chapman of Park Holme, near to Somerton, who is cross indexed with the name ThompsEn (K.M’s mate?). She is also listed in Centenial Park records for her presumed burial or cremation on 13/4/88 at age 85….But hang on; what about the Rita Kathleen ThompsOn happily ensconsed alonside hubby Oscar Edward Thompson down at Noaralinga, whose death is recorded also for 13/4/88….If we can sort this one out by pressing a few Jail break buttons on a smart board, then perhaps we can try something similar with Ellen May or Mary McLeish nee Harkness bn. 1924 or 28 just to get our currupted SM related files in order.

  725. john sanders on November 22, 2020 at 1:42 pm said:

    Repeateb: Re two million to one odds of finding garments from a second hand clothing store post war marked Kean, Keane (or Keanic) being in the order of two million to one odds. Obviously you and your toffee nosed crowd have never been in an op. shop. And anyhow what about the odds of Leane’s request for an ROK sans Tamam Shud slip on a Thursday and having one miraculously anonymously being delivered to his door step by Friday evening. London to a brick against in my estimation and of course the press wouldn’t have a bar of it either. Proof of the pudding being Les Wytkin’s copy that was conveniently dismissed as being a little over the top for safety.

  726. milongal on November 22, 2020 at 10:50 pm said:

    As ever a couple steps behind play….
    So, if J&P in Melb on 29th
    Catch the evening train back, arrives Adelaide early AM.
    Run into SM in the station (whether they know him or planned to meet him or other….)
    Convince him to abandon his plans to Henley (if he already has them), and go with them to Glenelg
    They explain the Somerton Bus goes from across from the station
    He makes his excuses, but jots down their number
    He makes his way to the Henley train, mulling it over, and decides “What the hey”
    He rushes to the bus stop and asks the driver whether the bus goes to Glenelg, and the bus driver agrees
    etc…..
    and then he ends up dead on the beach

    Couple of things to note before we argue about St Leonards bus vs Somerton bus. I drove buses for a couple of years and can recall several occasions where I might have accidentally misled passengers – or even when routes are so close explained that “you can wait half an hour, or you can come with me part way and walk the rest” (and as per my example above if he asks about “Glenelg” rather than “Somerton Park” it’s even more plausible.

    NB: originally I would have said travels with them (which is part of the reason he goes unnoticed (which I think I’ve floated similar before) – because he was not alone). The problem I have with that is that I can’t seem them catching the St Leonards bus to get to Moseley St when the alternate bus goes right past where they need to get to…..

  727. john sanders on November 22, 2020 at 11:00 pm said:

    Peteb: While we’re talking up proliferation of the Keane name in Commonwealth and Dominion countries as per your latest Tbt thread, we must never forget the Fatherland Keanes where it is said to rival Schmidt & Slitze in popularity. Brave and bold being it’s translation, almost like a dare if we go back to Detective Len Brown’s refreshment room suitcase….Oh and were you aware that Jessie Thomson’s remains are apparently held at two cemeteries, with both Centenial Park and Port Lincoln to have her. Perhaps your Dominion Colleage could get to tge bottom of that as well, if he’s not too busy.

  728. john sanders on November 23, 2020 at 11:21 am said:

    Had there been shenanigans afoot in respect of the ROK delivery to police HQ by a motorist on July 22nd with Les Wytkin’s unrequired fail safe copy almost exposing the ruse without quick thinking by the cops to bury it. This might well have been enough of its own to satisfy a case for suicide which the Coroner could sign off on. The nurse’s unplanned for appearance on 25/7/49 with her story on SM’s possible identity, might have been seen as a blessing in disguise to convince any suspicious press hounds that everything was above board afterall.

  729. john sanders on November 23, 2020 at 12:09 pm said:

    Peteb: Senator Brien McMahon was an up and comer American liberal democrat of staunch leftist principles and darling of the imaginary bleading heart Huxleyite social order, whose Atomic Energy Act was promulgated to ensure that civilians and not military warhawks might be better placed to halt prolifaraction of nuclear weaponry. The act was ratified and passed by both houses uncontested in late ’46, coming into effect on January 1st 1947 just a few short months before baby Robin McMahon Thomson made his way into a not so perfect ‘brave new World’. Mother must have seen this as assurance for his future well being which of course by 1984 was found to be a hoax.

  730. milongal on November 23, 2020 at 9:57 pm said:

    @JS: Some time ago I suggested that the ROK from Jetty road could have been a prank gone long – that some randoms came forward with a book with a ripped page, and instead of being dismissed it took a life of its own. The page was ripped but the TS slip was trimmed up neatly. That means if we have the right ROK, the purpose of removing the TS slip wasn’t for identification purposes as has been suggested (because surely the identity idea requires that the shape of the slip is a match to the shape in the book). It might be possible that the book subsequently ripped more, but not sure I’d really buy that. Remember at inquest the best the government analyst could say was that the paper certainly seemed to have the same composition. But if we took 2 books published around the same time by the same publisher, I suspect we would be quite likely to find this similarity. The result is a bit like the earlier conclusions “I can’t dismiss…” rather than “I can categorically say”.
    For mine, I think there’s also some pressure on the analyst to get certain results – so there’s an inherent confirmation bias to begin with. He is asked to demonstrate the 2 samples come from the same place – so anything that might prove otherwise is simply ignored, and anything that is consistent is flagged (perhaps with more weight than it needs to be).

    Re Port Lincoln, their site’s database (which seems to be semi-statewide (it’s like there’s multiple SA Cemetry Authorities…..)) has:
    – an 84 year old Jessie Thompson buried 14/11/11 (but the 11 is 1911)
    – a Jessie Christine Thomson buried (actually, cremated) in Mt Gambier in 1993 aged 60 .
    – a Jessie McTaggart 5 months old in Port Augusta (can’t find date) – obviously this isn’t her, but it caught my eye all the same

    I will note that their search seems to get strange results (“THOMPSON” finds the 84 year old Jessie, but “THOMPSON, J” doesn’t (yet “THOMSON, J” does bring up the other one, which doesn’t seem to appear if you just search “Jessie” – although I’m not certain the order is alphabetical, even though it looks like it at times). So maybe I’ve missed her at Lincoln….

  731. john sanders on November 23, 2020 at 10:57 pm said:

    In South Australia from 1980 to 2000 which probably covers a goodly number of people in Robin Thomson’s age grouping who were born and died, without there being actual DOB details (I could assertain this), 33 McMahon middle names are recorded and all but one were males. It would seem to me that Jessica was not alone in her desire that Robin might grow up in a nulear free world, although the phenmina could easily have been a soviet orchestrated conspiracy.

  732. john sanders on November 24, 2020 at 6:27 am said:

    My blunder. There are more like forty pages in the C&F ROK with two numbered quatrains on each face page only with some sketches. A strange press set up with wide unadorned borders, looking as if the print layouts could be glued though that possibility has never been discussed far as I’m aware.

  733. john sanders on November 24, 2020 at 8:06 am said:

    Right the first time I think. Struth what tiny thin little books they were, and at the risk of being compared with Repeat Peteb, just made for sending to a pal in one of those white Keane suitcase envelopes instead of an Xmas card.

  734. Tamara Bunke on November 24, 2020 at 8:22 pm said:

    Regulars may be interested in this new, short BBC Radio podcast on SM that canters through the basics with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Somewhat bizarrely, this is a thrown together bonus episode in a series that has something to do with HP Lovecraft. Indeed, it makes an explicit connection between the bust of SM and something Lovecraftian. I haven’t listened to any other episodes yet, so can’t comment further.

    Anyway, here it is (look for “Bonus episode 1”):

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/GTKk6n0fQPcWzHXmTDXGHH/can-you-solve-this-true-crime-mystery?xtor=CS8-1000-%5BDiscovery_Cards%5D-%5BMulti_Site%5D-%5BSL02%5D-%5BPS_PROGRAMMES~N~~LovecraftInvestigations%5D

  735. milongal on November 24, 2020 at 9:54 pm said:

    Thanks Tamara – Good find!

    Their cleaned up version of the code is interesting….and seems to follow some observations we’ve previously had (naturally that would have influenced the copy, rather than proving our point).
    – The Beginning of the first 2 lines could be W or M or N
    – There are several distinct styles to the ‘A’s (equally some of the D/P/B have much sharper loops than others). (the last A and B are totally different to the others (maybe the first B in the code is slgihtly similar – although less emphasised)
    – the letter T seems inconsistent too, and bith G’s look different (these a less obvious differences to the A and loops on P/D/B, and may be a result of the tracing rathemore than anyuthing else
    – the C after Q does not look like a C – top of an S perhaps, or maybe an ampersand? Similarly the ‘S’ in the last line looks like it’s intended to be something else. In fact the other S in the bottom line doesn’t really look like an S either (maybe an S – or perhaps some letter from a foreign alphabet (e.g Greek Koppa)

    Probably a result of being cleaned up, but there’s a flatness to the stem of the last letter that I can imagine a straight line under the letters touching the right-most stem of the M and the bottom of the S like symbol (but the ITTMT don’t align with it).

    Incidentally, JS, I’ve speculated before that Fedosimov was anti-nuclear (from a weapons, not an energy perspective). Can’t remember the exact angle, but basically I think I theorised it was what ultimately saw him shifted from diplomatic missions to his role as advisor on the Russian delegation to the IAEA conferences. I think it might have been a counter argument to the idea he had deeply offended the Kremlin (which I think was the justification for him disappearing from the US and “appearing on Somerton Beach”). Rather, I proposed that he may have had unpopular views regarding Nukes as weapons, but because of this was a tactful (or at least non-controversial) voice to have representing Russia’s view of Atomic Energy. Noting, of course, that it was (and remains) pure speculation.

  736. john sanders on November 25, 2020 at 12:05 am said:

    milongal: Couple of interesting snippets re Jessie Muir Thomson bn. 1918 for anyone interested in long bows. She came from a prosperous Port Lincoln family, her Dad being Walter McFarlane a local auctioneer who must have been active when Prosper Thomson was doing auto business up there in the late forties. Jessie’s mum Christain name was Douglas then there were two sisters and two brothers all with Muir as their middle names, little sister Glen hooking up with young Harry Cleland who’s immediate connections were wealthy Adelaide spirit merchants, along with uncle John and cousin Tom both achieving great success in their respective professions. Jessie’s own husband George Archibald Thonson son of George Thomson a wealthy grazier of ‘Burnside’, who she married in 1940 and to whom she had a child Janet in 1942, up and died at age 29 in 1942 (for no good reason) and all that remains is his granite headstone with George sans Thomson still in place at George town cemetery near Clare. His sudden demise prompted a young and very presentable new widow into making a move to Somerton Park in Adelaide where she remained, apparently unclaimed and unheard of for another fifty two years until her life was celebrated with twin services at Port Lincoln and Centenial Park. Co-incidently her near namesake Jessica Thomson rests nearby as does the latter’s husband Prosper (George) though without the glamour of his loving wife. no need to comment as to how a dodgie auto dealer may have come to be known as George Thomson from the time of his AIF discharge in ’43, through til the day his ashes were shoved under a rock at Passadena.

  737. john sanders on November 25, 2020 at 3:40 am said:

    @My Name, a newly inducted dupe over at ‘heart of darkness’, has offered his thoughts on the probabilities of a chap name of Thomas McMahon using his wife Hilda’s maiden monicker Keane, as intimated by Gordon’s man Clive. Let me assure you my man, the Hilda Mary Keane who died on October 30th 1940 and that was subsequently laid to rest at Babina (sic), could hardly have been married to Tom Keane or any other bloke one cares to nominate. You see the poor wee bambino interred at Babinda cemetery happened to have died on that very day, her actual birthday. PS Nice work Clive, GC will no doubt be pleased with your continued loyalties.

  738. john sanders on November 25, 2020 at 4:53 am said:

    I’ve just noted for the umteenth time both here and on our colleague Peteb’s most compelling site, frequent referal to a certain black powder residue having been shaken from a small stencilling brush that was part of the so-called Keane suitcase. It seems from past similar references y’man would have it that said black powder residue is likely to be something akin to graphite dust of a kind used to lubricate keyways for auto theft. A most convenient nomination in light of Tomsbytwo’s absolute certainty that this case revolves around grand theft auto.

    Going back through the SM inquest deponent affidavits, only one reference to the brush and it’s residue is contained; it being in Detective Leane’s testimony where he talks only of black substance found on stencil brush?, which chemical testing by anylist Cowan could not identify. I’d be interested to know if anything else has come to light in regard to what form said substance took, as it certainly doesn’t seem consistent with the powder that Pete harps on about as if it’s form were a given. I’m more inclined to the view that it was more like dried crumbly ‘gunk’ but I’ll allow to having been wrong occasionally in the dim and distant past.

  739. Milongal: given Leane said the original code was in faint pencilling, do you think that whoever overlaid the photo taken of same may have been faced with some gaps here and there, and was required to improvise?

  740. john sanders on November 25, 2020 at 7:40 am said:

    Tamara: Comrade; Here in our southern Liberated zones, our respected party elders have chosen in their estermed wisdom, to not expose our patriotic youth to devisive capitalist propaganda aimed at their vulnerability; this been ratified at party level, thanks to the firm guidance of democratically elected comrades of our beloved Politbureau. We of course are well aware of capitalist BBC’s Tamam Shud re hash with it’s “This beat the Navy” cipher text. Solution proved not to be difficult for our year 7 young pioneer youth collective students using simple letter word association taken from passages of comrade Wilfred Burchett’s ‘grass hoppers and elephants’ using a ‘Danetta’ substitution key…Hope you enjoyed it though!

  741. Tamara Bunke on November 25, 2020 at 11:09 am said:

    John, here in the high Sierras, our heroic freedom fighters have laboured in comradely union with the oppressed campesinos to erect an antenna that acts as a beacon of la revolucion to friend and foe alike.

    Thus we are able to spread the message of hope against the imperialist aggressor norte-americano far and wide. An attendant benefit is that we can reverse polarity at sundown and listen to the class enemy’s transmission.

    We marvel at capital’s ingenuity, while remaining steadfast in the cause of liberation.

  742. milongal on November 25, 2020 at 9:30 pm said:

    @Pete: Yes. Depending on whether it was faint penciling or indentations as though it had been rested on (or something else in between), I think there’s potentially interpretation. If there is some cyrillic/greek/other script with unfamiliar characters, then there may have been a tendency to interpret them as similar Latin characters. At the risk of repeating my previous, most obviously to me there’s multiple types of ‘A’ in the code (look at the slant/symmetry of the letter, sharpness of the angle/straightness of the sides, angle of the crossbar, how well the crossbar connects or crosses the stems etc. There also appears to be 2 or 3 different styles for “bowled” letters – some ‘B’ quite definitely meet and turn at the stem, others roughly approach it, and the loop of the bowl is far deeper and sharper for the D, P and B/R on the RHS of the page than the B’s or D/P in the middle of the text.

    But in terms of interpretation and light penciling perhaps the C is the most obvious. It’s much shorter then the Q, very shallow and really feels like it’s the top half of an S (or some non-Latin character) rather than a C (note also the similarity of the top of it to the first S in the bottom line – which you’ll note is totally different to the 2nd ‘S’ – although the straightness of the bottom of the S is very unusual in both of them – especially when you could argue that a lot of other letters (the ‘G’ in the top line) are unnecessarily curved).

    I also can’t help but wonder why sometimes we seem to have included other detail (the X and the 2 lines…..the crossbar on that last S, the double stroke on the ‘I’. Sometimes it seems like we’re misinterpreting stuff into letters, other times it feels we’re conscious of the fact that these might not just be letters that we’re familiar with.

    There’s an interesting gap between MLIABO and AIAQC (compared to how squished the WTBIMPANETP line is) – is this a pause, or has a letter been missed here? Not sure why, but the ‘E’ looks out of place with the rest of the font too (I think it might be that bars on it aren’t angled – but every T, L and many A are (I would have throught someone with a tendency to cross the T upward would have ‘E’, A’ (H etc) similar. In fact the whole code seems to be written generally upward – which I think would be consistent with someone who strikes crossbars upward.
    The more I look at it, the more I think it was written by multiple people and/or hasn’t been reproduced very accurately

  743. Tamara Bunke on November 25, 2020 at 10:35 pm said:

    We find it easy to accept that GCHQ’s micro-writing is pareidolia. Could the entire code be?

  744. Tamara Bunke: I think there’s precisely zero chance that the code itself is pareidolia, though my best guess remains that what we are looking at in the well-known image is a marked up photograph (with some mistakes), and that there is a print (perhaps in a Durham family loft) of a photo of the unmarked up code that nobody has seen in 50-odd years.

  745. Bumpkin on November 26, 2020 at 2:36 am said:

    What do you mean by “Durham family loft”? This case doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Spinning completely out of control. Total nonsense. Dig him up. Get his DNA. Check it against genealogy databases. That’s the best we can hope for. IMHO.

  746. john sanders on November 26, 2020 at 7:11 am said:

    Much has been said for the S & Mc. listed occupants of 90 (a/b) Moseley Street at the time of Sister J E Thomson’s telephone line into the same address, which may well have been a common convenience for all in the divided dwelling. The names Farrer, Ross, Lyndan, Shipham, Allen and Proudman (92) are well documented. The 1947 occupier of the front main entrance 90a seems to have been a 23 year old seminarian rom Flinders Ranges, Raymond Ignasius Pope come down to try out for the Catholic Priesthood. Some doubts surround this identity of course, for instance his dad was a methodist and it is well known that niether of these most unlikely God fearing contenders for salvation were ever closer than spitting range. NB: I took note of a Raymond Pope, passenger aboard SS Fairsky ’61 Tilsbury who gave c/o St. Marks Cathederal, Port Pirie as his address, so the boy may have been on his way to becoming Pope Pope of Oz afterall.

  747. Bumpkin: Jimmy Durham was the police photographer and fingerprints expert, I’ve blogged about him a number of times. His son (who has sadly since died) gave after-dinner talks on his father’s work.

  748. Tamara Bunke on November 26, 2020 at 9:16 am said:

    Bumpkin, I think Old Nick is referring to Durham the photographer (?), albeit it in an occulted manner.

    It’s a sideline, yes, but questions around the veracity, accuracy and even existence of the “code” haunt this case.

  749. milongal on November 26, 2020 at 10:02 pm said:

    @JS: As I think you’ve pointed out before, S&Mc is quite inconsistent (even with themselves – their alphabetical listings are often different to their street listings, so I assume they were maintaining 2 lists (pre-computers this probably makes sense) and sometimes they weren’t updated consistently. I’m interested to know where they get their data from, because sometimes I suspect they list owner rather than tenant (which could be down to people not recording aspects of tenancy – perhaps because they let/sub-let directly without an agent or something – even today I’m sure there’s a lot of people that don’t follow the processes that might be required or expected).
    the Thomsons are interesting, because from memory newspaper ads suggest they owned (or at least tried to sell) Moseley St (or another house in Glenelg??). Also from memory (when I get a chance I’ll double check) I don’t think I’ve ever found them in any S&M before or after SM – which might be something simple as them being fairly transient (and/or possibly living in share houses) or something stranger that they were trying to mask their identity.

    But you have reminded me that I wanted to cross check 90A Moseley with Main St Henley.

    Re the code, if it was written in pencil (as opposed to recovered indentations), then I’d expect a reasonably accurate copy with the texta – the only exception being that some characters might inadvertently (or deliberately) be “cleaned up”. This is particularly if the person tracing has a presumption that all they are seeing are characters of the English alphabet. Even within the languages that use the Latin characters, there are a large number that add diacritics – which an English speaker wouldn’t even be looking for.

    For example, there has been some speculation about Baltic origins. The Latvian alphabet use a caron, cedilla and macron to modify letters….
    So vowels can be lengthened (Ā would be more like ‘ar’ like in “park”, whereas without the macron it’s a shorter sharper sound (like in “puck”) – the lazy English ‘a’ sound comes from the Latvian ‘e’ or sometiumes ‘ej’ combination (the ‘j’ is like the English ‘y’ which Latvian doesn’t have, and the most common English ‘j’ sound would come from mixing a d and a ž (think of it as being the sound ‘zh’ would make if we followed the English in their treatment of ‘s’ with an ‘h’ (ie ‘sh’) and ‘c’ (ie ‘ch’))). As well as the caron on ‘z’ (and s, c) and the macron on all the vowels (except o – since the 40s), a cedilla is used on g,k,l,n (and formerly r) to make softer constonants (it’s hard to describe them to English speakers, perhaps the easiest is Ä» which is sort of the sound Italians get from ‘gl’ (as in the definite artivle ‘gli’ or in a word like ‘tagliatelle’ (the ‘g’ disappears and the l is sort of softened, maybe blurred).
    Now couple that with the fact that Latvians (and possibly many other languaghes) are painfully phonetic and bastardise words (and names) into their phonetics (masculine names (usually) get an arbitrary ‘s’ on the end, feminine ones an ‘a’ – actually their not arbitrary, it has to do with the language having a large number of cases (I think 7 different cases) – so just a result of the nominitive case, I think (and in the genetive it would sort of be the opposite…..but digression).
    So Džons Sēnders is a regular poster on this site run by Niks Pellings, and occasionally PÄ«ts Boz (I don’t know how they’d get the right ‘o’ sound, actually because the Latvian ‘o’ is a longer softer sound (almost more like ‘uo’ ).
    Curiously (maybe this is onlky the ones I know), when anglicising they seem more likely to translate to an equivalent – eg Jānis would become John, MiÄ·elis becomes Michael (although maybe that should be Mitchell), Andrievs becomes Andrew etc, etc. (plenty of info probably better explained on Wiki search for ‘Latvian Names’, ‘Latvian Phonology’, ‘Latvian Orthography’, ‘Latvian Names’, ‘Latvian Declension’

    Equally, Germanic languages use umlauts – and of course the Eszett (which might mean that the less point “B” are actually ß (of course, that’s unlikely/impossible IF we’re talking about the start of words)).
    And I’m sure many other languages use similar but nonetheless different symbols that might be forced into an English-looking text.

    In short, even ignoring other character sets, the implicit assumption that any text MUST be English might mean that useful diacritics or other unfamiliar marks might have been ignored

  750. john sanders on November 27, 2020 at 6:11 am said:

    Don’t know too much more about the 104 Partridge St. address, excepting it was owned by a somewhat flighty character named jim Murnane bn. 1907 who had hailed from tiny Cummins (Feltus country) like ex AG John Rau’s dad James Bruce, a mechanic & billiard hall prop., who settled in Main St. HB during WW2. So the J.G. Murnane family were living in Glenelg by ’39 at least, being well known to the local archdiocy and with a phone listing of X3639 according to my impeccable source. Jim, served with the local ‘choccos’ through the war and was a wetwork subbie by vocation. He moved back to Cummins to die a good Catholic in 2004 at 97, likely managing to avoid the odd close shave along life’s journey if it must be known. NB: The James George Murnane, buried at Brighton in ’55 is most likely an uncle or grandfather who also near made the magic ton himself.

  751. john sanders on November 27, 2020 at 8:59 am said:

    There are only eight modern built dwellings in Alta Mira Crescent at Belair, the only permanent structure at that time seeming to be the Methodist Church (uniting) which is numbered 18 Sheoak Street. In ’47 I’d say their were a few chicken yards in the two wide vacant blocks (still vacant) between the Church and the house on No. 15 with a massive town water tank (one of three) fronting onto Sheoak Street. The Thomson (no initial) advising pitch on 23/3/47 was in wanting a prewar model Bedford truck and that he could be found two doors from the church or c/o a local post office box and that’s all. Got me buggered but maybe some genius will come up with what was supposed to happen; not as if a bloke with an old truck to sell was likely to spot the vacant lots upon arrival and so check with the post office for further directions.

  752. john sanders on November 27, 2020 at 11:27 am said:

    Apart from the 2A Jetty Rd. Glenelg address for Freeman Chemists in ’48 having been non existant according to the generally reliable S & M directory, it seems likely that John Christian Freeman, our unlikely nominee for Ronald Francis, may actually have been living at 2A Palmer Ave., Myrtle Bank near Adelaide University. Similarly, according to the same directory, John Bain Lyons is not listed at any address close to the Somerton Beach, though a J. B. Lyons is recorded at a Glandore residence closesby Adelaide Cricket Club.

  753. john sanders on November 28, 2020 at 6:16 am said:

    Peteb: Depends who you believe; a respected business man and WW1 first aid man in Jack Lyons, or a career copper of the same age in Constable Moss, with a lot of court appearances under his belt. Lyons made his point with ‘When we saw the man raising his arm in the evening, he was not holding a cigarette; When we saw him in the morning, there was a cigarette behind his ear but that cigarette had not been lit’. Moss was in no doubt that his cigarette, positioned in the jowl had been smoked fairly well down, and backed this with a copper’s standard clincher ” I made it my husiness to know”. Moss didn’t have a clue what brand the bumper was which, along with having no idea about the matches either, led to a thanks for your service posting to picturesque Henley Beach.

  754. john sanders on November 28, 2020 at 7:38 am said:

    Direct pencil application or indentations through the missing ROK cover, this age old conundrum shall remain unknown it seems, unlike the direct printed X3239 phone number which an afterhours detective added in tiny letters alongside the end of line ‘P’ of the code. In Gordon C’s very latest cracked offering, we see a heap of years old micro crud rejuvinated with red highlighting to conceal evidence of nothingness. The long acclaimed letter Q, once a standout advertisment for the micro technique and reason for Peteb’s ‘GC scoooored’ eureka exclamation is now unembellished lieing forlorn to one side with only C for company. There appears to be a neat burn hole beneath the badly overwritten first line M? that wasn’t there before but which could be a failed test of BS/TS’ long threatened secret lifting fluid based on glass penetrating Goanna oil from Bullimba.

  755. pits boz on November 28, 2020 at 8:50 am said:

    JohnS … the way some folks see it, is that Strapps was wrong about the striped duds and the man who saw a man carrying a man was wrong about the date and PC Moss was wrong about the lit smoke and B&M matches.

  756. john sanders on November 28, 2020 at 3:04 pm said:

    Pitz Boz: Way I see it, both Johns had corroboration with their sworn testimonies. John the jeweller had back-up for the discovery in the form of RSL King pin of the time and future Knight of the Realm, Colonel James Lee MC and bar, whilst John the plod had Det. Sgt. Harry Strangway, longest serving and inarguably the most capable major crime investigator that Sapol owned as his SOC supervisor. So what became of these worthies; who were never mentioned beyond Strangway getting named on day one as OIC then nothing after. In the words of Jo Thomson’s alleged admission to fibber Feltus, “The case was at much higher level than the Adelaide CIB ” and so say most of us!

  757. milongal on November 29, 2020 at 10:15 pm said:

    The man carrying the body story appeared a decade later. Not saying it didn’t happen, but the further we get from an event, the less reliable the memory is – and while I accept that it’s something you mull over, you sort of need to consider why not come forward earlier if you’re certain it was that night? I suspect the person had some recollection of seeing someone carrying a person (or more likely helping an intoxicated or incapacitated person) along the beach, and over time they convinced themselves it must have been on that night.

    Clearly I fall into the category of the “…don’t believe a whole bunch of the recorded evidence…” type. But there’s a reason for that – many seem to be reading old accounts of often unreliable witnesses and then using same as absolute certain proof that today’s pet theory is infallible. The reality is, that while perhaps I seem a “negative Nancy” too often, every theory that I’ve seen proposed needs us on some level to dismiss some evidence as “unreliable” or even “wrong”. Even among the official records we have conflicting accounts – meaning there is at least some unreliable evidence from the get-go. So to some degree, before speculating on specifics (and then showing our confirmation bias as we choose the evidence that suits our story) it’s sort of necessary to consider how reliable different evidence is likely to be. In particular, consider:
    – In the earliest stages of the investigation this was a mundane death. Because the body was in a public place, the police had to make some investigation, but from early on they likely expected a finding of “natural causes” (or suicide), and for someone to come forward to claim the body. It was only as time past and this didn’t happen that they started to look into things more thoroughly
    – A young chap going to watch a sunset with his girl is probably not paying too much attention to the pants a random sleeper on the beach is wearing
    – Government analysts are (accidentally) told what to find. They’re not given something with no background and told “tell us everything you know about this”, they are given a piece of evidence with a story and asked whether they can make a specific conclusion about it. Aside from the obvious confirmation bias this causes, it also means that they word things in that frame of reference. The Rubaiyat page literally came back as a “…can not confirm or deny this slip came from this book” yet is presented as “The paper was certainly similar enough that it *could* have come from the book”. Incidentally, I have been in a situation (actually more than 1) in a Government department when I’m asked to show someone accessed something that shouldn’t – and a response of “I can’t prove they accessed the data, but I can see they used the system that day” is reduced to they “accessed the system that day” (maybe with an addendum of “…possibly to view those records”
    – The railway station staff are in the same boat. They are asked to show things about 30 Nov. We don’t know how good their processes and records actually are, but they are potentially told to “cover your asses and make a good story of it that doesn’t expose holes in our record-keeping”. The ticket seller explaining that he can definitively say it was that day because of how they rule lines through the top ticket at the end of the day certainly sounds awesome in a court room (especially if the process existed and people were actually good at doing it) – but what checks did he make when looking up the record to be sure that he was looking at Nov 30? What if he accidentally looked up Mondays ticket numbers, or Sundays? Was the ticket booth the only place where people could buy tickets, and is it normal on a warmish (I’m not going to the unseasonal – I’ve argued against often enough) day only 3 tickets to Henley are sold before midday?
    – Likewise the bus conductor. Sure 7d tickets are sold in Section 1, and 6D tickets are sold in other sections – but what record does he have of which run they were sold on and how accurate are they? In a shift, how many times did that bus pass through the city? At what point does the driver update his records? At various times during my time on the buses, I was required to count passengers (usually when for some reason we weren’t using ticketing – including something related to strike action (that I wasn’t part of and don’t recall the specifics), and several instances of free travel (New Year is the most obvious, but I vaguely remember something weird possibly related to an event like the Clipsal 500, and Football Runs which had tickets that didn’t use the Crouzet system). Differnet drivers had different methods of taking these tallies, from anally updating their count each time a passenger boarded, to counting in their head and updating at time points or termini – to just making up numbers (some probably more accurately than others). Just because processes are there, doesn’t mean they’re followed to design in the actual case – but I’ll bet you if any of those drivers had been called to explain the numbers, every single one of them would have claimed they meticulously counted and got it right.
    – Witnesses in general are unreliable. It’s not on purpose, it’s just that they’re usually not paying attention, and when something is exciting enough to catch their attention, the story they interpret is often more fanticised and/or involves their assumption/conclusion about what was going on. A man and a woman yelling at each other might be described as “a lovers argument” (even though the witness has no idea if there’s even any connection between them)….kids yelling at each other might be “an altercation about the game they were playing” etc, etc, etc.
    – By the time anyone started to think this case might be something more than a (typical) body found in public much evidence had likely been missed or inadvertently destroyed – but very few people are prepared to admit “We missed stuff because I F’ed up” – so instead an increasingly false narrative grows (possibly with multiple players even from the get-go twisting the facts to suit their personal theory on suicide or murder).

    So yeah, some people are quick to say a lot of the information we have is unreliable. I’d consider that an accurate appreciation of what we (don’t) know…

  758. milongal on November 29, 2020 at 10:26 pm said:

    Changing topic.
    Had a thought at the weekend around the well developed calves (calfs?). Perhaps he lived or work somewhere where he was often up and down the stairs (it occurred to me this might fit with him being a nitkeeper keeping watch downstairs and bolting upstairs at the slightest hint of trouble, but I’m not necessarily going that way yet). I’d imagine 2 story houses were uncommon in Adelaide in the 1940s and hotels would have elevators (beachside apartments or institutions might be more likely to have stairs – but you’d be unlikely to be up and down them all dat), so very few people would get that sort of exercise in situation normal.
    That said, I think the calves impression came from Lawson – who while possibly experienced in anatomy, wasn’t necessarily used to seeing and assessing dead bodies.

  759. john sanders on November 30, 2020 at 3:08 am said:

    Peteb: D’you hear there, that Gordon’s fellow swabbies aboard Barcoo gave him a well suited shipboard nickname, as young naval ratings are apt to do. In ordinary seaman Strapps case ‘Tatts’ might have worked for his known artistic display, or even Goggles due to his requiring ultra thick lens for extreme short sightedness; However, the lads came up with a real gem in Radar; not because of any related shipboard assignation, but simply because the poor fellow was blind as a cave bat. PS: Note the on site wedding snap, telltale dark rings around his peepers and how Olivetti appears to be guiding her man like a seeing eye dog.

  760. Milongal: one piece of a jigsaw puzzle doesn’t make any sense until the others are fitted around it.

  761. john sanders on November 30, 2020 at 10:43 am said:

    Just so long as the jigsaw piece in question is part of the actual puzzle Peteb. Two questions without notice for yourself and Boris the flipper to chew over if I may. Regarding the Greenwood ‘Riddle of the Sands’ Good Weekend article, of which includes the standard Keane suicase contents list; same but for the four pair of sox and an extra pair of Jockeys; question of course being, how are we off for sox and underwear these days?. Next one is a Cramer type quiz to which I do know the answer. Whats wrong with the knife pose in the supposed Mason’s folder picture?

  762. milongal on November 30, 2020 at 9:13 pm said:

    @PB: Some days it feels like somebody put the wrong pieces in the jigsaw box, and we’re building the wrong picture.

  763. JohnS .. nothing wrong with the knife pic at all … just a bit of double protection for a sharp blade: tinned-zinc is handy for that, being bendable.

  764. john sanders on December 1, 2020 at 10:51 am said:

    Peteb: Thought you’d fall for the durex protection, but actually the tinned zinc could well be a great clue to the correct answer..A little more close scrutiny and you’ll get it.

  765. john sanders on December 2, 2020 at 5:03 am said:

    I’m indeed honoured to be given the same ‘Brinksmanship’ award ala the great John Foster Dulles, a past master and unequalled in the field of international duplicity sans diplomacy for his ‘two step shuffle’. In fairness to the great man, Peteb no doubt meant his so named thrust in a less complementary light, for I notice I wasn’t included in his short list of SM good guys vis. Abbott, Cramer, Pelling, Boris and milongal…Whilst Peteb’s labouring over how to resolve the Brymay matches impass &c., with a little help from his named confidants to his liking, along with having another go at SM’s (?) utility knife riddle, I’ll just rest on my laurels and await opportunity for another no risk feint and fade ambuscade.

  766. Here’s one for you … and anyone else who might like to participate.

    How did the Somerton Man light his cigarette ?

  767. john sanders on December 2, 2020 at 11:00 am said:

    Peteb: At the risk of being repetitious to the nth degree I’ve put all my faith in the old digger Jack Lyons, who’s powers of observation in the trenches of France must have saved a few lives including his own. “That cigarette was not lit” from big Jack should win over Moss the plod in the minds of most punters by a Somerton mile my reckoning, so there you go, a mute question by all accounts.

  768. So what was the unlit cigarette doing lodged under his chin, seeing he had no matches to light it?

  769. john sanders on December 2, 2020 at 1:49 pm said:

    Peteb: Your lit smoke assumption is based on the law’s arrival at 6.45am or later, whereas Jack Lyons, Arthur Lee and the hoops were there from about 5.30am to 6.15am, so trying to take a doubtful later spotting by constable plod has gaps and reeks of convenience to me. As for your unfamiliarity with Prosper Thomson’s Sapol connections, you might like to see what your Bondi mate John Ruffles had to say re Det. Ron Thomas who claimed to have known him socially; but spare your known research limitations and Let one of the lads do it for you as usual..

  770. Tamara Bunke on December 2, 2020 at 2:01 pm said:

    The very first page of the 1949 inquest concludes that matches were found among the few possessions on the body. It’s there, black and white, on the record and undisputed.

    What we are seeing here is the normal to and fro of witness testimony. Smoked, unsmoked; matches, no matches. Witnesses differ, their testimony is subjective and self-serving.

    The inquest is clear: matches were found. It’s the only source we have. Others have said it before: the case is not going to hinge on a Columbo-style “gotcha” worked into the plot by a skilled, omnipotent and omniscient author.

    Matches and trousers are not where the answers lie.

  771. john sanders on December 2, 2020 at 2:12 pm said:

    Peteb: How did you arrive at your assessment that the smoke, unlit or otherwise was lodged under the dead man’s chin. Can’t find it in Moss’ sworn testimony anywhere and of course first attender Lyons attests to it being above his ear so maybe your unamed informant was a late arrival known but to you and Foo.

  772. Tamara: PC Moss was interviewed by The Truth (Adelaide) where he stated that the body ā€˜didn’t have a match on him.’
    I have a pic of the article …
    It’s in black and white, and like any jigsaw puzzle, finding a piece that fits can only help.

  773. milongal on December 2, 2020 at 9:32 pm said:

    Somewhere (possibly inquest?) there’s a mention that the cigarette was on his collar (as though it had dropped from his mouth).

    But I’m with Tamara on this one – picking little anomalies in people’s recollection statements isn’t really helpful. A good witness is the exception, not the rule – and little differences or omission of detail isn’t a massive red flag about anything,

  774. john sanders on December 2, 2020 at 10:37 pm said:

    Tamara: Take a bow comrade, now that smoko’s over, perhaps we can resume our struggle towards a world without risk of further Bryant & May discovery queries.

  775. Tamara Bunke on December 2, 2020 at 10:47 pm said:

    While Pits, Sanders and Angliski Boris (one wonders if he really IS the Prime Minister of that poor benighted isle?) indulge in epistemological dick-waving over what is knowable about matches and/or sundry other sources of ignition for blunts and bifters, I have taken time out to watch that 2019 ‘Stuart Littlemore’s Greatest Hits’ video that TBT linked to recently. It’s the usual retread for the most part – but there are one or two new morsels for our delectation – chief among which is Prof Abbott’s revelation that he’s found lots of American 4th cousins in his wife’s bloodline (his working hypothesis being that she’s Somerton Man’s grandchild) and that he expressly ponders, therefore, SM’s likely yanqui heritage.

    Assuming that ol’ twinkle eyes isn’t kidding us, this does seem potentially significant, although perhaps the more genealogically aware (Nick, Sanders, Milongal?) could comment?

    Superficially, of course, it’s a great fit. It matches some of the physical evidence (clothing, personal effects) as well as the mitochondrial DNA (which suggests he’s likely Irish, which in turn matches the name Keane, and helps position in East Coast USA). And it provides a certain fig leaf for the failure to identify him to date: US records are held to be less comprehensive and accessible of those elsewhere, I understand.

    Again, thoughts from anyone here?

  776. john sanders on December 2, 2020 at 10:58 pm said:

    Peteb: Where did you come by your information that Det. acting Sgt. R.L Lean was an administrative type, hence a sticker for paperwork. Once again the evidence shows the exact opposite. My advice is for you to read through Len Brown’s full interview with Stuart Littlemore ’78 and all will be revealed which of will satisfy all but thee on how dilligent your dishonest senior case officer reall was.

  777. john sanders on December 3, 2020 at 5:26 am said:

    Full credit to Tamara and Boris (+ Rob) for sticking it up Peteb and his startled black cat; I had at one point thought the pair had capitulation like his other lackies & running dogs in the past. A couple of additional shots across his bow if I may be so unusually critical. Constable Moss made no specific mention of NOT finding matches on the body as y’man has steadfastly, strenuously and so tediously proclaimed to be vertum his inquest deposition. As for Peteb’s ace in the hole vis. Gordon Strapps generally non committal ‘I shd say’ striped duds description with an additional waver in their being part of an unseen suit is the clincher a total lack of credability. Olive Neill hinted more than once of concerns they might well be disturbing the dead, and was rightly suspicious that the blue suited gentleman on the railing above could be connected as a strings puller, either metophorically or literally (partly my take). She show support for her man on some key elements pertaining to events on the evening at the inquest, that being her prerogative.

    Constable John Moss, OIC of Brighton Police in an early January phone hook-up with the once most eagerly digested Adelaide Truth daily scandal sheet dated 8/1/49, offered details about his having found cigarettes on the beach body and noting nicotine stains suggesting SM had been a heavy smoker, also remarking that strangely ‘he never had a match on him’. All this along with his policeman’s tell tale suspicions arising therefrom, but he said not one word about the all important though highly speculative half smoked fag. Of course none of what he told Truth newspaper came out in his deposition anyhow, which does say more for the dirty blue Hamilton fiver earned from story than his honest copper’s Sworn duty to pass on any relevant facts that might have been beneficial to Coroner Cleland with his deliberations on likely death cause, whither whence etc…

  778. Tamara Bunke on December 3, 2020 at 10:32 am said:

    Bit of a tangent this. But given the Prof’s renewed focus on ballet, I wonder if anyone picked up on a point made by Sanders about 4 years ago now: the premiere of Joanna Priest’s ballet ‘The Listeners’, in Adelaide on 30 November 1948.

    That point doesn’t seem to have been developed at the time. But it might be worth another look.

    Without wanting to introduce too much melodrama, the ballet’s subject matter is rather close to some of the assumptions about SM’s relationship with Sister Jo. While the poem that the piece is based on is less explicit, the ballet builds upon a Gothic premise and adds in the dimension of fatherhood.

    That poem, BTW, is Walter de la Mare’s “The Listeners”. And it’s curiously close to home:

    For he suddenly smote on the door, even
    Louder, and lifted his head:—
    ā€˜Tell them I came, and no one answered,
    That I kept my word,’ he said.

    I can’t immediately see an acrostic connection to the code. But I’m sure I won’t be the only one taking another look.

    But back to the ballet. Has anyone had a chance to review the following, which includes notes on the Adelaide production:

    https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/907282/Details?

  779. milongal on December 3, 2020 at 9:39 pm said:

    LFMAO – where is this Angliski Boris (that’s “English Boris”in Latvian**).

    The “ballet connection” has bothered me some of late – in particular that people sort of seem to mix in the fact that Robin was a ballet dancer (and DA even seems to think his kids liking dance is somehow related).

    So if SM was Robin’s biological father (and if SM was a dancer), why would Robin become a ballet dancer? Even if his parents knew SM was the father, wouldn’t they (especially Prosper) try to push him away from trying to connect too much with his real father? A love of dancing (or anything, for that matter) is not (as far as I know) genetic – so Robin becoming a dancer in the footsteps of his father only really makes sense if his family were open about the fact Prosper wasn’t his father and it wasn’t a cause of angst in the household (note that this is all speculation – I’m not suggesting that Robin was or wasn’t SM’s son).

    **Today’s Latvian Lesson
    Anglija = England
    Angļu = English – possessive (e.g. Angļu Valoda = English Language)
    Angliski = “in English” (e.g. runāsim angliski = let’s speak (in) english
    Angļi/AngļieÅ”i = English – people (PoMS) (e.g. Angļi spēlē Austrāliju – the Poms are playing Australia)
    So “Angliski Boris” would appear to mean something like “The English equivalent of Boris”

  780. john sanders on December 3, 2020 at 10:45 pm said:

    Tamara: Another comrade had mentioned the listeners further back but Sanders had not known this, picking up on it through coincidence derived from the opening night at Her Majestys in Adelaide and interest in a particular dancer who had once had very close romantic ties to Joanna Priest. It turns out that he seems to have died and though his widow was then living near Glenelg and he had a brother and an associate, both Worth Circus trapeze artists through the war years, holed up in Ferris St. fifty yards from the death scene. No one showed any interest in the case scenario and more particularly since the chief suspect was presumably tgen deceased although there were reasons a plenty to check through lists of European dancers that were known to have stayed in Australia including Joanna herself. Another coincidence that went unoticed is that she was Roma Thomson’s ballet mentor years later. Ho hum, right Nick?

  781. john sanders on December 4, 2020 at 5:00 am said:

    Yes of course Robin Thomson’s first missus was Joanna Priest’s student Roma Egan whom we assume to be our absent minded Professors mum in law. Jo herself was Adelaide born but became part of the famed Rambert ballet in England. Priest had hooked up with my TS who had first come to Oz as partner to the great Pavlova. He encouraged Joanna in her desire to produce her own work and ‘The Listeners’ was a theme that he developed and had performed in Sydney about 1942 or so. It was all ado about a confused door knocking traveller seeking direction in his life. There was a woman who loved him and bore his child to whom he gave the flick, and another tart that he was pegging, hence his dilemma. The scenario actually mirrored TS’s own life, he being married to Maria with whom he had three kids and left in favour of a Tivoli performer named Marie that he married bigamously before the war. Up until at least 2012 his US based daughter Elizabeth was asking about her once famous dad whom she did not know had died in NZ on 22 January ’45. Cut a long story short Maria TS gave up her children to English relatives and lived well into her nineties in Gibralta, while Marie D. who missed hubby’s funeral due to ‘the show must go on’ type stage work, married a WW2 fighter pilot cum chemist (an orphan from Port Pirie) in ’47, the couple settling at West Beach and running a pharmacy til in death they did part &c. One part of an interesting family saga indeed involving talented performing Polish brothers, but not so worthy of inclusion according to SM grand theft auto deviants (sic) and soviet assassins on the beach that was all ago in 2016 or so. Seems things never change!….

  782. john sanders on December 4, 2020 at 9:00 am said:

    Got to give it to the man; Peteb is the master of facetious (sic) and that’s saying a lot for such an abject failure in all his other attempts at humor or in humanising the SM case. Of course the Tamam Shud slip as a means of demonstrating total legitimacy between two covert operators is bunkum, be they spys, stolen car raqueteers or Melbourne market mafioso standover men. Whoever it was that made the TS slip mean something that it wasn’t needs a right royal roasting for unloading such baloney and allowing it to take over fifty percent of all on line discussions. Had it it been me wanting to invent proof of intent I probably would have used the Henley Beach rail ticket. Buy it date stamped at the double star box in the open concourse to insure discreet coverage and then have it gate punched as full and undeniable proof of good intent. Goofproof but if it went down that way, it would in Somerton man’s case lead him to his Tamam Shud.

  783. john sanders on December 4, 2020 at 11:38 am said:

    Boris: Bonzo Peteb seems to have taken care of that little faux pas ‘tamam’ as you must have known he would; intollerable discention in the ranks and all. Perhaps Nick might consent to you repeating them over here for approval or otherwise, so long as it doesn’t upset the apple cart with our like minded critic and comrade Tamara Bunke!…

  784. Tamara Bunke on December 4, 2020 at 1:21 pm said:

    Sanders: I’m sure Angliski Boris can answer for himself. But as we say – with good reason – here in Vallegrande:

    “History is written by the victors. But it’s edited by the losers”.

    ”Venceremos!

  785. john sanders on December 4, 2020 at 1:48 pm said:

    Tamara: Here in Can Tho, queen city of the liberated south, we have a saying which in effect translates almost verbatum, with a minor ammendment to effect that the beaten capitalist editorial running dogs may please themselves!…

  786. john sanders on December 4, 2020 at 2:18 pm said:

    Some breaking news for those familiar with the Kean suitcase contents vis. the cut down Johnston & Sons scissors, the converted bone handled Sheffield butter knife the Barbour linen threads and accomanying craft needle, all possibly circa. turn of century (20th) or thereabouts.; Seems that from a number of recent closely linked earnest discussions over the way at Voynich Ninja our Somerton Man’s vocation might well have been finally established. SM seems to have had more than a few attributes common to bookbinders of that era which include those discribed plus the tiny Cramer loupe, useful in closely replicating work of 15th century Venetian artisans.

  787. Tamara Bunke on December 4, 2020 at 4:44 pm said:

    Sanders: the loupe is not a loupe. It is one half of a pair of scissors, listed as “broken” in the description of suitcase contents. In my view, “broken” is an unfortunate term, as it suggests “no longer serviceable”. But this tool is anything but broken in that sense. It’s customised.

    Anyway: there is no loupe.

    Back to ballet (indulge me, won’t you, for a moment): my interest is piqued by the Abbots’ now very public interest in the subject. Viz. the lengthy shots of ballet classes for their kids, etc.

    Call me cynical, but I’ve always thought that ol’ Professor Twinkle Eyes knows more than he’s letting on, especially now he’s got help with from stateside. So I’m wondering if what we’re really watching here is a trailer for the big reveal.

    I’ll let you pirouette on that for a moment.

  788. john sanders on December 4, 2020 at 10:46 pm said:

    Tamara: Note my reference to ‘Cramer’s loupe’…If you you go to google and look up equine harness gear you’ll find that a our loupe looks very much like a the short lead strap and ring that connects the nose chin piece to the neck halter along the cheek. Within the connecting ring a three tiny lock notches which are intended to prevent slippage. There are numerous referehce to my description in past posts and also to the likelyhood of Somerton man’s having been likely connected to the gee geez.

  789. john sanders on December 4, 2020 at 10:58 pm said:

    Tamara: Our absent minded professor even has a daughter named after a ballet; I recall that it was one of Stravinsky’s better known ones, something to do with a fleet footed antelope of African origins which escapes my feeble attempts to spell it. Of course there is the long awaited exhumation to come and the paltry amount of twenty thousand couldn’t possibly be any barrier to somone on an achedemic’s salary. So something’s not kosher here, especially since the SA AG’s starring roll in Dancing with the Dead a year ago.

  790. john sanders on December 5, 2020 at 2:51 am said:

    Tamara: Jules Perrot (not Hercule) and Adolphe Adam were creators of Giselle the ballet in 1841 so forget Stravinski who was impressario Diahilev’s tempremental composer for his own Ballets Russes extravaganzas. Sure Derek’s having hooked up with the S.A. AG for Dancing with the Dead gives rise to there being something up his sleeve despite having nada under his hat. Perhaps he’s thinking what failure of his highly speculative DNA deal might bring, especially after having ‘sucked’ the future Mrs. Abbott into pre marital indepth and pervasive oral cum aural cavity intrusion under a false pretence.

  791. Tamara Bunke on December 5, 2020 at 11:08 am said:

    @sanders … interesting that you’re connecting the leathery-thing-with-the-ring to the nags. I always had that down as the razor strop that was listed in the description of suitcase contents.

    A model of such a strop – pertinently known as a ‘Russian Leather strop’ – is shown here:

    https://www.mensbiz.com.au/dovo-extra-wide-russian-leather-strop

  792. john sanders on December 5, 2020 at 1:38 pm said:

    Tamara: You’re looking at the wrong piece of kit for crying out loud. Go to the ring with the three small internal nodules and the partly concealed blue lead which is what equestrians like to call a nose ring and lead. How could it possibly be broken scissors with bumps in the finger hole, worse still a loupe with no way to insert a lens as Cramer suggests. Leane should have known that seeing he spent ten years as a mounted constable before he aquired his suit.

  793. milongal on December 6, 2020 at 9:49 pm said:

    I went to anemptyglass, but I noticed someit other than what I went there for.
    GC has posted a picture there from the police files that includes the “code”. despite seeming to have enough room, each line is split in 2 – bit not really consistently. I would have thought (space permitting) you would try to reproduce as similar as possible (they’ve left a line’s space where the line is drawn), so it seems odd that they’d split the lines like this – if anything, it seems to waste space (I get they’re using typewriters and can’t plan out the page as we would on a modern Word Processor…..but still).
    There’s also a couple of transcription errors (as well as starting the first 2 lines with ‘M’, they have the first ‘B’ as ‘D’ and the ‘N’ in the 3rd row as ‘W’. They seem very careless errors – those letters aren’t particularly close on the keyboard, so perhaps someone is rushing through the transcription (and losing their place), or maybe someone migth have some idea on what they think might be represented – which is perhaps influencing what they type. Of course it might also be that they’re working off the actual pencil marks (rather than the cleaned up version we’re seeing) – which might have some letters looking less definitive.

  794. john sanders on December 6, 2020 at 11:14 pm said:

    Milongal: If you’d be kind enough to point out where on the site you’re refering to I’ll take a gander. You must appreciate that Cramer has played around with nearly everthing listed under Sue d’s original key categories to express his personal bias. Please don’t take anything you see on the site as being connected with reality even copies of seemingly official papers; they likely have been doctored to facilitate the author’s own warped mind.

  795. milongal on December 7, 2020 at 10:13 pm said:

    on the page “Somerton Man’s Rubaiyat” – in the comments GC has posted some excerpt from a Police Report….

    For the sake of it….
    IMP at the end of a line could be “It Might Pass” or (maybe a touch of Tolkein) “In My Pocket”. Just a bored doodler on a train.

    My railway grinds onward
    And downtown and boroughs disappear.
    My ticket’s buried in my pocket
    And we expect travel disruptions.

    My love, I’m almost burned out.
    Although it’s a quick connection,
    I’ll try to make the station
    After my service to Glenelg.
    AB

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