Like it or not, we find ourselves completely surrounded by Bad Voynich Theories: this is an unfortunate (and often dispiriting) state of affairs, and one that seems unlikely to change any time soon.
Having said that, everyone is entirely free to pursue their own foolish Voynich theory (though it sometimes seems as though this is close to becoming obligatory). But as long as you’re only wasting a small amount of your own time, that’s essentially fine, because you’ll probably learn a load of interesting stuff along the way. And if you can (eventually) get to the point where you truly understand the basic mistake that set you on the wrong track (and can actually accept it), you’ll probably have stretched your mind in an overall positive way.
However, the one thing that takes a Bad Voynich Theory and turns it into an outright tragedy is when it starts to gain followers – people who have no inkling of the basic historical/logical error the original theorist has almost certainly made. For if there are (say) a thousand Voynich theories out there (and the smart money is surely on the actual figure being a fair bit higher), that means that at least 999 of them are wrong: or, put another way, the chances of a randomly picked Voynich Theory being correct is no more than 0.1%.
I’ve written before that I think Tucker & Talbert’s “New Spain / Nahuatl” Voynich theory is demonstrably wrong, but their camp has now acquired a new ally who wants to take those ideas much further….
“The Annotated Voynich Codex”
Jules Janick at Purdue University has picked up Arthur O. Tucker’s Mesoamerican baton and done his best to hurtle forward down the same track with it. According to his freshly-minted Voynich project page (a longer PDF version including Janick’s transliteration tables and working examples of plant decryptions is here):
The two botanists who have published papers in refereed journals (Hugh O’Neil, 1944 and Arthur O. Tucker, 2013) have observed the presence of only New World plants. Tucker has demonstrated that this is a MesoAmerican codex based on identification of plants, animals, a mineral, language symbols, and heliocentrism.
(Of course, he means “Hugh O’Neill” here. *sigh*)
Subsequent analysis by Tucker and Jules Janick have demonstrated a direct connections to colonial Mexican history including illustrations of landmarks and cities and an allusion to the establishment in 1530 of the Celestial City of Jerusalem (Puebla de los Angeles) by the Franciscan friar Toribio of Benvente known as Motolinía (1482–1568). All our research to date indicates that the Voynich is a 16th century codex associated with indigenous Indians of Nueva España educated in schools established by the Spanish.
(He means Toribio de Benavente here, who arrived in New Spain in May 1524.)
Janick believes that the Voynich’s pharma section offers so many labels of herbs and plants that it can be used as a ‘Rosetta Stone’ for decrypting Voynichese. I’ve cut-and-pasted his transliteration table (below) into a form that Voynich researchers can quickly make sense of (note that I’ve given EVA t/k pride of place at top left, because it is the ‘tl’ from which every single Nahuatl Voynich theory ultimately seems to spring):
With the Voynich Manuscript so comprehensively solved, we should all now decamp to the bar for tequila shots (surely the only sensible way of ingesting agave), right? Well… no, not just yet. Janick continues:
However, the bulk of the manuscript defies translation, and it appears that a dialect or lost language associated with Classical Nahuatl is involved. This is being pursued. We are convinced that the Voynich codex is a document produced by Aztec descendants that has been unfiltered through Spanish editors. As such, we believe it may be a critically important manuscript to colonial Mexican history.
So despite the fragments of Voynichese that seem to be Nahuatl (if you squint at them in just the right way), there are huge sections of the text (I’m guessing this means 99% of the text) which even Janick’s clever transliteration table still makes no sense of. But to give him his dues, he would still appear to be several times further forward than Stephen Bax ever managed (numerically speaking, that is). 🙂
Puebla de los Angeles
Despite these significant (and, I suspect, insurmountable) linguistic shortcomings, Janick, Ryba & Tucker seem pretty convinced about their interpretation of the Voynich’s infamous nine-rosette page. Here’s a link to their paper Voynich Diagram 86v: An Interpretation, which excitedly concludes:
Page 86v of the Voynich Codex is a complex figure that involves two concepts: (1) a kabbalistic sephirothtic Tree of Life, and (2) a map associated with Puebla de los Angeles, the New Celestial City of Jerusalem established by the Franciscan Friars including Motolinia. It includes four encircling cities, Huejotzingo, Tlaxcalla, Tecamachalco, and Zempoala (Cempoala) Vera Cruz, all mentioned by Motolinia. The diagram is evidence that the artist of the Voynich Codex was involved with Catholic mysticism linked to Jewish kabbalah.
So… yet another nine-rosette spatial decryption to place atop what is already a tall and teetering pile. Anyone got a box of matches? The weather’s suddenly turned cold here and… (you know the rest).
Your Chance To Meet Jules Janick!
Regardless, if you’re just as excited as Janick et al. seem to be about this (and I can assure any disbelieving Cipher Mysteries readers that there are plenty of Voynichese/Nahuatl devotees out there) and can haul your sorry ass over to West Lafayette in Indiana this coming Wednesday lunchtime (21st September 2016), the very distinguished Jules Janick himself will be giving a talk on all this at Purdue University, hosted by the Jewish Studies Program:
Wednesday, September 21 ~ Beering Hall, Room B222 ~ 12:30
Jules Janick, James Troop Distinguished Professor of Horticulture, Department of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture, Purdue University, “A Kabbalah Sephirothic Tree, the New Jerusalem, and the Voynich Codex: Understanding a Bizarre 16th Century Manuscript of New Spain”
Personally, I think the probability that the Voynich Manuscript originated in New Spain is so close to zero that your desktop calculator would have to switch into scientific notation to display it. But given that nobody gives a monkey’s about what I happen to think, all I can say is: it is what it is.
¨Very nice article and analysis. Of course you’re right,Nick.
The Indians manuscript has nothing in common. I Nahuatl whole dismissed. It is a journey in the wrong direction.
@ Nick : I’m not giving up on you — yet !
What finally brought the Inquisitioners down on Sahagun was a Dominican monk’s letter to Papal Inquisition Headquarters. Sahagun was pardoned, but parted from his students and their writing and artistic works. His diary (the so-called Voynich manuscript) was never returned to him. Nor was his huge “Historia General) ever returned to him. He died not too long after the Inquisitional trial. Sahagun is buried in the “heart” of what is now known as Mexico City.
Forget Kabalababble — there is none. Get yourselves a copy of “NAHUATL as
Written ” — ‘Lessons in Older Written Nahuatl,
with Copious Examples and Texts’ Series Editor James Lockhart . Associate Series Editor Rebecca Horn .
Stanford University Press
UCLA Latin American Center Publications
preface page: nacatl in itlaqual quauhtli
(Florentine Codex, Book 11, Chapter 2, Paragraph 4)
Thence begins table of contents and preface, followed by page 1 .
bd
ps: You might like to look at the Vocabulary, beginning on page 207 through 243.
Index: pages 244-251 (end of book)
bd
There was a certain intellectual quality to the first Voynich mailing list – a spirit of enquiry – which we’ve never quite recovered since the arrival of the theory-driven, assertive style. I simply can’t imagine Neal instructing anyone to just burn anything Reeds said, thought or argued from evidence. I can’t imagine Stolfi taking another researcher’s work and pretending it was his own. And so on.
They say when people talk about burning books they don’t like, it’s time for reasonable men to move.
And here, our intrepid guide Nick goes astray, not realizing the quality and amount of work that Drs. Tucker and Janick have expended in using their perfectly good botanical knowledge (with some side trips, for example to identify the picture of an elongated fish which, by a curious “coincidence”, is native to Mexico and not Europe) which serves to open the door a bit on expanding on the linguistic basis as well as the cultural milieu of the Voynich.
Tucker’s hypothesis is based on very real botanical observations and knowledge, the perfect person for the job in analyzing a document possibly connected with a culture which had an extensive herbal repertoire including the royal establishment and maintenance of herbal gardens the extent of which astounded the early Spanish explorers.
Poor Nick has had to endure so many odd theories I believe we can excuse him from being led astray by his extensive European knowledge in possibly incorrectly regarding the Nahuatl theory to be of zero probability, particularly considering the people who came and quite possibly were teachers to any possible Aztec authors came from Europe.
I’ve spent quite some months following the Nahuatl/Botanical approach. I don’t know if the hypothesis is correct, but their herbal knowledge is nothing short of amazing and the “text” itself has given me many hours of fun exploring possible “transliterations” into Nahuatl or related dialects.
James R. Pannozzi. 🙂
What are you writing for gibberich. Have you ever seen a fisch pike ??
Those here with us swim a lot. Rivers are full of them.
Some kind botanist, has no chance to find out what manuscript -408 is.
Seen one ? Well…..no….but I’ve seen lots of microfiche !
James R. Pannozzi: I didn’t say it had zero probability, just an exceedingly small one. 😉
@ Prof Pannozzi: Hang on to those microfiche ! Most microfilms no longer have a ‘film projector’ by which to read. Some libraries have kept a cumbersome machine, but most have microfiche; which can now be read on the WWW.
PS: Lesson 18 : “Spanish Influence in Nahuatl Texts …….pages 117-118 (in particular).
bd ‘ er ‘ eyed’ than ever !
….zero probability ? Well I write. Probably no chance. I know one hundred percent.
All New World ideas seem to me to suffer from several difficulties.
Firstly, they conflict with the C14 date of the membrane, so at the very least one has to imagine a New World scribe using material a century old.
Secondly, the manuscript appears to have fifteenth and early sixteenth century marginalia implying European ownership, and in languages akin to French and German rather than Spanish or a New World language.
Thirdly, the manuscript was evidently in Prague circa 1610. Not in the New World or Spain.
Fourthly, I have yet to see a proposed New World language solution which actually gives consistent and intelligible results – although in fairness that applies to other classes of linguistic solution also.
The straws at which one can clutch in the Voynich swamp are few enough. I can’t see any justification for spurning those we have in favour of playing Name That Fish. Sorry.
Yes. OK.
I’ll write in again.
The letter, which is Yale ( Beinecke). 🙂
Concerninq the cipher MS.
Substitution :
Czech kniha the cipher 1,2,3.
( Kniha – Czech language, meanings englisch language = book).
( Kniha = book ).
MS = has two meanings. ” M “, emblem is composed of two characters.
( I + 2 ). ( M = 1, 2 ). No. 2 is written rotated 180 degrees.
( S = 3 ).
Voynich shows you the encryption method. It shows that the system is used – numerological system gematria.
The next line is written tutorial ( manual) on translation. It’s the same a on page 116 of the manuscript.
The entire manual is written in the Czech language.
Voynich wanted more money. So he tried to cram manuscript Bacon.
Cabalistic numerological system of gematria :
1 = a,i,j,q,y.
2 = b.r,k.
3 = c,g,s,l.
4 = d,m,t.
5 = e,h,n.
6 = u,v,w,x.
7 = o.z,
8 = f,p.
Conce rninq the cipher MS.
Czech kniha the cipher 1,2,3.
People, people: PLEASE UNDERSTAND that the so-called “Voynich Manuscript” was, first of all. Fray Sahagun’s diary in which he first wrote of his origins (the small town of Sahagun in Spaiin), and continued to write about his ship journey and observations of the celestial navigation which the ship-master (or ship’s pilot/captain) performed nightly.
I can’t remember when Sahagun began his visits with the Elders in the various small villages which encircled the huge lake. I’m not sure which religious order arrived first in the “New World/New Spain” (Dominican or Franciscan). I do remember that it was a Dominican Brother who “narc-ed” on Sahagun (Franciscan). The Inquisitioners did not return any of Sahagun’s writings to him.
His diary (so-called “Voynich”; now called B-408) eventually ended up in Suleiman’s enormous scroll collection. A diplomat (representing Austrian Emperor) returned to Europe some 200 (in very bad shape) scrolls. The Emperor apparently immediately sent scrolls, menagery, and “Arabian” horses to Rudolph
Ennyway: Really ‘old stuff/so-called cryptology: Not one word of cryptology is to be found in either the “Voynich Mss” or the “Florentine Codex (Sahagun’s 12-volume continuation of his adventures in “New Spain” ) .
Do I recall correctly that his burial site is ‘smack-dab’ in the middle of the town which is now Mexico City?
This old fogey is getting more’foggy-minded’ everyday. I’m due for cataract surgery at the end of this month (my functioning R eye only).
bd
Oops! The scroll-bearing Ambassador was “Busbecq”. A whole book (modern) can be found which contains “Busbecq’s Letters” (However the ambassador spelled his name.)
ps: I am fervently hoping that Professor Leon-Portilla will visit Nick’s recent post (this page). SOMEBODY has to prove, once and for all, that there is NO cabala, NO Turk, NO French, NO Palestinian, NO Czech, NO Hebrew except reference to Christ.
The so-called “Voynich” manuscript is written in Franciscan Espanol and “New Spain” (Mexico) Na-hua-tl .
Cortez and the Inquisition came very close to impairing Fray Sahagun’s elderly but very sane mind. Current-day Franciscans can be very proud, as well as our Native Americans (North AND South Americans).
bd
ps. I am fervently hoping…..
So Entrust citizen. What you need ? I’m all large ears.
Los Angeles? No wonder I recognized some of the herbs.
I need ‘large ears’ (yours in particular) to explain to Nick why I am so certain that the so-called “Voynich Manuscript” was first Fray Sahagun’s diary and description of his home origins, education as a monk, travel by ship to “New Spain”.
I’m hoping that you might verify that the ‘Province of Leon’ included the small town of Sahagun. I am also wondering if Bernardino de Sahagun was educated at the University of Salamanca before boarding a ship to the “New World”.
Another writer, Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, whose book “1492 – The Year the World Began” is as fascinating as your writings.
Another item which caught my eye was a letter from Isabella’s court, commanding ‘ X-topher Columbus to find the continent of China .
Other books I’ve been reading are: ‘Yucatan Before and After the Conquest” – Friar Diego de Landa
Finally: In May of 1990 Pope John Paul II made a pastoral visit to Mexico ….
(the Introduction pages continue from ‘ iii ‘ through ‘xliv’ , followed by several more pages of descriptions and a letter.
This particular book is dependent on Martin de la Cruz and Juan Badiano; both of whom were students/assistants to Fray Sahagun.
Whew!
bd (who will be having eye cataract surgery sooner the better)
Fortunately, the language of the manuscript has not been found yet definitely, it allows us to continue to rack our brains.
I just found a label on 100r written in Slavic. Visit to challenge !
Best regards
Ruby
@ Ruby ! Hi, hello, no time long see ! Oh, I’m still wracking my brains ! Today, I took a short break from Nick’s headquarters. Back in the 1970’s my husband and I visited Canyon de Chelley (Navajo and Hopi country). Some of the most even-tempered people in the world. I guess because I was so small, the locals didn’t hesitate to tease me. Example: We’re in line for breakfast. I ask for a fry-bread. The server automatically picks up the cinnamon sugar shaker. I say ‘no sugar’. The very tall and husky Navajo gentleman on my right says “No sugar ?! I respond “I like salt with my frybread. He starts to laugh. I begin to ‘elbow’ him. Out of the corner of my eye, I see a woman standing stockstill, face forward, but her eyes dead-pan staring at me. I roll my eyes; she rolls her eyes — we both face forward while the gentleman ‘cracks up”. My husband was oblivious — at least until the laughing begins. He rolls his eyes at me; I shrug. We all face forward. The server, who is still holding the sugar shaker, is almost in tears trying to keep a straight face.
Nick, I won’t cry or throw a tantrum if you decide I’ve taken up too much space on your comments page and delete my latest comment.
bd
@Diane: the solution lies in cooperation, as i already wrote many times. Just think about the most difficult things accomplished by men in history. Were those the effort of just 1 man ? No, always a team effort.
The reason that developments go slow, is cause current people “in Voynich communities” are only looking to be entertained: 95% does not want to do serious work, 4% is actually willing to, but not really capable. The remaining 1% has to do it all alone. So, you will have to be patient 😉
@ Ruby : Correction to greeting: “Long time No see”. I’ve been scheduled for cataract surgery (sometime in October/November). I’m very nervous because I can read with my right eye only. So, if the surgery fails, I’ll be blind (as far as being able to read),
@Davidsch: Here, in the US, we have many female heroes (heroines). Even a very famous female airplane pilot.
bd
@Davidsch,
You speak very kindly. Though for the first seven years of the eight I have spent contributing to this study, I experienced none of that goodwill which you assume informs this discourse, though I sincerely hope your experience will differ from mine.
All the best from member of the 1%. 🙂
D
I’m wondering if the confused identity of that ‘fish’ may turn out to be close but not ‘on the money’, so to speak.
Take a good look at an iguana. They are good food, as well as good pets.
When I lived in Key West Florida (large Cuban population) , we would all go down to the dock to watch the sunset sky become green. One of the ‘regulars’ had a pet iguana. He let the iguana perch on my hand and forearm. It liked to have its neck scales rubbed, while his tail dangled over my elbow. BTW: they are beautiful swimmers.
Pike ? I shall investigate the possibility of that identification. I seem to recall that pike are cold water fish (such as can be found in Lake Champlain) .
Other possibilities are alligators and crocodiles — depending on climates. and territories.
And then there is the eel — an electric eel — which shocks its victims. I shall do some more research.
bd
@diane
I do not post on ninja anymore because there is way too much distortion for the 1% people. Now in my 3rd of 4rd year (don’t know anymore) of Voynich research and i am more than ever confident in my path. Slowly some results are coming. Just hang in there!
Davidsch,
.. with bated breath..:)
@Nick and Diane: I’m hoping that, between the two of you, some consideration of my latest posts might occur. I am very tired of the unremarkable remarks which appear often on Nick’s pages. “dueling vocabularies/interpretations”. “Personalities” critique-ing each other’s commentaries…..
I’m thankful that we get a visit, now and then, from some very knowledgeable professionals.
bd
Excuse me, Nick, if 1-ce again if I am speaking ‘out of order”. I shall try to stay within the rules of the “tempest in a teapot” .
bd
Hi all,
I have gone down a new path and what I call it is Voynich Gematria. I believe MS-408 is in English.
I found a date a date for the VMS to be 1433 in folio 94v.
https://voynichgematria.wordpress.com/
Nick,
You should have a look at my site. I translated in full the f67r2 Zodiac, f68r3 Taurus and the first paragraph of the famous Water Lily f2v.
1st paragraph f2v reads:
Water Lily, blackbirds, hang on edge to Rise Full; Age has created
its roof, Elm, Oaks, above chime among bird. Our kept Ireland, this
had rich magic druids.
https://voynichgematria.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/zodiacstars.png