I’ve started the year on a positive foot, by knuckling down to a gritty task I’ve been putting off for ages – writing a dedicated Somerton Man page for the blog. OK, it’s not going to oust Gerry Feltus’ splendidly detailed “The Unknown Man”, but it covers quite a lot of ground in a thousand words. And the pictures are all basically on the money. Which is nice.
However, the reason I had been putting this off was that I wanted it to somehow reflect the edges of our knowledge about the Somerton Man, rather than get knotted up in a whole load of Wikipedia-esque meanderings. (I’m not a committee, and I didn’t want to write like one.) And yet the big question is surely… where are the edges? And what exactly is the difference between an ‘edge’ and a ‘brick wall’, hmmm?
As of early 2014, I don’t think the text is going to help us, not unless Naval Intelligence in Melbourne had (and still has!) an unannotated photograph of the cipher page – basically, I have more than a sneaking suspicion that we’ve been starting from a codicologically broken version of the page that will never sufficiently support us in our attempts to read it. And so all we have is The Man himself, in all his unidentifiable obscurity.
But we do also have the nurse, the mysterious Jestyn / Jessie / Jessica / Jo / Tina / Tyna. These days, one question I keep coming back to is whether “Jestyn” makes sense in the way she (apparently) claimed it did. I struggle to believe that particular story wholeheartedly; and when I asked Gerry Feltus about this recently, he seemed to share more than a few of my doubts. In fact, it was a bit spooky that we had travelled substantially different paths but reached almost identical positions.
At the same time, while I (almost) always enjoy Pete Bowes’ Somerton Man musings and thoughts, there’s something about his speculative take on the Unknown Man’s underdaks that rings true for me. Really, only someone answering to the name “Keane” would have “Keane” on their underpants, so I don’t honestly see any alternative to the idea that, at least some of the time, the Unknown Man did go by the name “Keane”… and if no such person existed or was missing, then it must have been a fake identity. After all, the problem with the laundry theory is that the grundies he was actually wearing had no name on. So how do you get them clean, then? That’s a mystery all of its own, I’d have thought.
I don’t know: maybe the missing link will turn out to be a Mr Keane / Styn, who changed his name as often as his underwear, and who was sweet on tiny little Jessie Harkness. Maybe Jestyn was comfortable with being Jess Styn, but didn’t want to be Jess Keane? If this is in some way right, why was the Somerton Man’s underwear Styn-free? Maybe we’ll find out in 2014, who knows!
http://www.imgur.com/qSfGrlT
M: that looks like complete dynamite! Are you that “Maria” or a descendant of her?
Don’t say anymore Maria.
That certificate is not in accordance with any certificate issued by an Australian State or Territory. It is implausible because Jessica was at nursing school in the years preceding 1942, not giving birth to children. It also bears the hallmarks of having been tampered with. It is an offence in most states to produce false representations of certificates of registration of births, deaths or marriages. I have sent relevant copies to the authorities to verify its authenticity.
Why R. I am tired and I have had enough. Why not say anymore? So you can cash in on my misery like you have recently done. It’s time people knew the facts and the home truths.
Yes Nick I am connected to the Maria in question.
You have got the wrong Jessie Harkness.. Maria. There were actually two of them. Separate identities and separate people. Good luck with finding your family.
Who said it was issued in Australia Celestine?
There is actually more truth to that certificate than you all know.
M: now that I’ve properly rubbed the sleep from my eyes, this certificate looks very much like a BFF (big fat fake), adapted from the 1959 BOMFORD South Australian birth certificate that was used to try to smear Obama back in 2009. But thanks for sharing your Photoshop skills with us, very much appreciated.
I agree nick. He has photoshopped the pants off that number.
But the truth is powerful
I think R has the truth.
And I think, this trollfest gets more and more amusing even with 2013 on our backs.
I do not understand the rationale of these people, who simply direct more attention towards Jestyn when they really seek to have her identity concealed. Muddying the waters isn’t going to restore her reputation. If anything does, it will be the truth. Until then she will remain as she is now: a suspect in a murder case. And yes, the lividity in the head does indicate interference with a corpse and cannot be explained by other means. The science does not lie and dead bodies tend not to move themselves.
The creases/folds are identical to those in the Bomford/Obama invented certificate, and the creases do not disrupt the printing at all.
Nick, sorry to be pedantic, but I cannot understand what you mean by “unannotated picture of the cipher page”
What annotations are you referring to, and what cipher ‘page’ are you talking talking about.
All we have ever had is the retouched image of a faint indentation found on the back of a book of verse. What do you have?
That typewriter font looks far more recent than 1942 to me.
Also, the father’s place of birth would normally include the country at least (e.g. “U. S. S. R.” or “Russia”), not the bald “Moscow” we see there.
.. I’ll try this one skipper. Earth to Dome, come in …
Pete: sorry, mate, saw your comments but have been typing away like a crazy thing on my next TL;DR post. What’s up, needlessly hairy man? 🙂
^ up there squire, the proletariat needs an answer or two
Pete: if you look closely at the highest-resolution Somerton Man “cipher” page, you can see that the dark lines are drawn in marker pen on a non-absorbing surface, yielding slips, spots, and sharp edges. If a marker pen had been applied to the original printed paper stock, it would have been absorbed into the paper, causing halos, blooms, smudges, etc.
Ergo, the marker pen lines we see were applied to something else apart from the original page: either to a photograph of the original page, or perhaps to a transparent sheet placed immediately on top of the original page.
Ergo, there is a good chance that there may still be a photograph of the original page without the extra layer of annotations added to it.
When did the trace on a photographer’s plate of an image taken from the back of a book become a cipher page Nick? – or are you just keeping the staff happy with the right words. You cypher gurus are a little precious that way.
But you are also saying that there is more, that the four known lines – plus or minus the cross-outs and false starts – was just one {really untidy} block of code that was taken from a much larger sheet that held many more similar and possible just as untidy blocks of code, is that what you are saying when you write this: a codicologically broken version of the page?
English is our mother tongue too old lad, and like cricket we don’t do too bad at it.
What’s next?
Cellophane celestine. You say that Jestyn is “a suspect in a murder case ” . There was never any proof of murder. And who’s “case” ? Your shabby effort of an investigation? Get real you shmuck!!!! Your not the police .
Pete: you can see traces of the original faint writing peeking from underneath a number of the (marker pen) letters – I don’t believe SAPOL made the cipher up, but I’m far from convinced they got every letter bang to rights. It would therefore be nice to see the original page without the marker pen overlay, nothing more complex than that. There was a little more on the same page (e.g. the phone number) but we mere plebs didn’t get to see that either.
I’m not sure how to post here but I’m going to try…
Does no one else here see a shocking similarity in Thomas L Keane’s signature (army files) and the clothes found in the SM’s suitcase. The “T” of T.Keane is virtually identical.
NB. I don’t believe that SM was T. Keane but I do think that he somehow had his clothes!
I posted links but they didn’t get through! Maybe Nick can catch them and post them?
misca: I agree that the “incomplete T” is a reasonable match but the rest is a bit wobbly. It might therefore be worth asking Thomas Lawrence Keane’s family if they have any other signatures by him to compare this with… a job for another day. *sigh*
[Troll Probability: High]
Joal Leahy and James Thomson are the same person. They are the trolls . Be careful if they try and befriend you.
So I am using a different email address because this website won’t let me post under the other one. I am not a troll. I am genuinely interested in this but admit I have very little to offer. Quantum computers and said to be able to decode at a level not yet achieved. Is this somethng you have considered?
Hannah: it’s a good question, one that I’ve been preparing a post on for a while… and hope to put online here quite soon.
I remember seeing an image of black ink pen drawing of a woman, apparently Jestyn, sitting cross legged on a bed in Alf Boxall’s copy of the Rubaiyat. But I can’t find the image now. The drawing is a profile, and Jestyn, if it is Jestyn, appears to be small and elfin, which is consistent with what we know, or think we know, about Jessie Thomson. The woman has a strange hair style for the 1940s; quite short straight black hair with a bit of a duck tail at the back. I have looked at several hundred images of women’s hair styles from the 1940s an I can’t find anything remotely similar.
Something really odd must have been going on. Why would Alf give the book to his wife? The only explanation I can come up with is that the book was intended for Alf’s wife.
B Deveson: I don’t remember seeing this image on the web, but it’s in Gerry Feltus’ book, p.23. It’s (presumably) a drawing of her sitting cross-legged sideways, looking at the viewer over her left arm. In general, I think it looks more a “remember me like this” drawing to me than a “give this to your wife” drawing, but make of that what you will.
For what it’s worth, I think Jessie Harkness copied the verse, drew the picture, then signed her name (as “Jestyn”), hence the change in ink density between the verse and signature. Of course, Pete Bowes will object that no balding Pom could possibly have got such a thing right, but there you go, it is what it is.
Is the woman wearing a fedora-type hat? If so, I freeze framed it from the interview with Alf. I have never been sure if JEstyn drew it or if it was printed in the book. If you review the youtube of the interview, you can “catch” the image.
Why is it supposedly unknown who found the book in the car? It was in the newspapers for one day. They printed the man’s name.
The hairstyle sounds like the ‘gamin’ or ‘gamine’ style popular among the beat generation in the late ‘forties and early ‘fifties. Associated with France. Audrey Hepburn wore it at one stage. It has been revived in recent years.
Yes. I agree. It looks hand drawn from Jessie. Some of her surviving family are painters and artists.
The picture is one of the original illustrations in the book. There are several other such pictures drawn in much the same way.
At Misca : what is the mans name who found the book ?
Misca and Greg,
Gerry Feltus says (pp104-5) that “Ronald Francis, a businessman from Jetty Road, Glenelg” reported that the Rubaiyat had been found in the back of his car by his brother-in-law about the time SM was found dead (also said to be at the time of the air show in November).
The only problem is that there ain’t no Ronald Francis that fits this description. Detective Len Brown (notes made in 1987) said “Chemist at Glenelg found Rubaiyat of O. K. on back seat of car.” and “threw book into motor car outside chemist shop.” The car is stated to have been parked in Jetty Road, Glenelg.
I think the whole “Ron Francis” story doesn’t ring true, and that is why I have investigated “Ron Francis”, but without success. There is no “Ronald Francis” listed in the 1950 Glenelg electoral roll (and a few years before and after). And the “Universal Business Directory for South Australia” for 1950 does not list a “Ronald Francis”. I particularly looked at doctors, pharmacists, dentists. optometrists, and various other categories of business people. No luck. But, I could have guessed that “Ron Francis” was not the chap’s real name given the cover up regarding Jestyn’s real name.
So, what is the real identity of the “Ron Francis” and why was his true identity held back?
I find it more than a bit suggestive that, in a case of probable poisoning, the Rubaiyat was found, apparently discarded, outside a pharmacy.
I suspect there is something more than the identity of “Ron Francis” being obscured here. Thus far I have put together a partial list of all the businesses in Jetty Road at the time. Still no luck. I am assuming that we can believe what Brown and Leane said; that the man was a businessman who lived in Glenelg and his car was usually parked on Jetty Road. Presumably he either worked in Jetty Road, or lived there.
Feltus went on to say (page 105) “When Francis requested that his identity not be disclosed, and gave his reasons why, it was not a difficult decision for Leane to make, and he readily agreed to the request. He knew he would be hounded to reveal the identity of the person, and curious people would continually speculate on the subject. But did it really matter if the discovered was a doctor, chemist, dentist, jeweller, business person or a male or a female?”
The addresses of the Pharmacies in Jetty Road in 1949 (data from trade directories and newspapers) were:
Fisk’s Pharmacy 25 Jetty Road, Glenelg
Freeman Chemists Jetty Road, Glenelg
Paul’s Pharmacy 118 Jetty Road, Glenelg
Pier Pharmacy 14 Moseley Square, Glenelg
National Pharmacy 62 Jetty Road (in 1945) Glenelg. No longer there in 1948?
D’Arcy Kenneth Robert Cock Pharmacist at Fisk’s Pharmacy
Lionel Peter Nunn owner? of the Pier Pharmacy. Lived at Phillips St. Glenelg
Robert W Fox Pharmacist and chiropodist. Pier Pharmacy and elsewhere
1950 Commonwealth Glenelg Electoral Roll
Freeman, Charles Herbert, 31 High st, pharmacist
Freeman, Colin Charles, 31 High st, chemist
Beilby, Jack Canavan, 1 Olive st. pharmaceutical chemist
Cock, D’Arcy Kenneth R., St Peters st, Da Costa Park. pharmacist
Dunn, Albert. 9 Sussex st, industrial chemist
Farrell,. John Francis, 5 St Peters st, chemist’s asst
Hall, Irvine Dawson 15 Maturin rd, chemist
Hardie, Bruce. 5b Chester st. industrial chemist
Hulbert, Russell George. 4 Elder ter. chemist
Johnson, John Kenneth, 23 Farr ter. pharmacist
Johnson, Leonard, 62 Brighton rd. pharmaceutical chemist
McCaffrey, Laurence Ambrose. 23 Collet Ter, chemist
Taylor, Ronald Norman. 5 Gordon St. pharmacist
Moriarty, Daniel Francis, 11 Maxwell ter, pharmacy student M
Parham, Gordon Redvers Buller, 37 Moseley st, chemist M
Summers, David Forrest, 11 Gordon St. industrial chemist
Tiver, Allan Godwon, 33 Pier st, chemist M
Upton, Harold Charles H. J.. 24 Winston Cres. chemist
I note that Prof. Abbott lists the Pakies Restaurant guest book in the “Primary source material on the Tamam Shud case”.
So, what is in this guest book that has any connection to the SM case? My guess is that Jessie’s name, probably her signature, appears somewhere. A specimen of Jessie’s hand writing would settle the argument about her authorship of the hand writing in the Rubaiyat.
Pakies was a well known haunt of left wing intellectuals, bohemians and artists of various sorts from the 1929 to 1966. Address: 219 Elizabeth St, Sydney.
Jessie’s gamine hairstyle marks her as a bohemian, so I expect that she would have visited Pakies at some stage. It seems that Jessie’s father may have been involved with the Frankston theatre group in 1947, and Jessie had an interest in ballet. Unverified reports suggest that Jessie saw herself as an intellectual.
BDeveson,
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to read Feltus’ book. Thanks for the information you have provided. I’m not sure why this person’s identity was and still is being held back but it was listed in one newspaper prior to the whole chemist, “back seat” spin and I suspect, it might have been held for similar circumstances as “Jestyn”‘s. There was one article where they gave his name and then, every article subsequent to that one mentioned only the “business man”, “chemist” and the “brother-in-law”.
The man was not a chemist and he not indicate clearly where he found the book. His middle name was “Francis” and he was living on Partridge Street.
Again, I don’t understand why his name was suppressed but I would suspect one of the following:
He may have found the book at his place of work and rather than turn it in, he kept it until he came to realize it’s significance and thereby, was afraid that he could lose his job.
He was involved in an extra-marital affair which may have been exposed if his details and where he found the book were revealed.
His “girlfriend” may have been the one to find the book.
The reason I suggest the extra-marital affair is that my research has shown that his wife filed for divorce (for infidelity) in 1951.
Not a chemist. Not a businessman. Didn’t live on Jetty Road but possibly very close on Partridge.
B.Deveson, If as it seems “Ron Francis” was an alias, is it possible the initials R F were correct? If so, that could possibly be “Robert Fox” ? Interesting he was also a Chiropodist!
Not, Morphett Vale but, Fulham!!
Misca! A very good catch indeed! That ball had been in the air for 65 years! Leslie Francis died in 1991 but he had a son, born 1939, so the son is possibly still alive and might be able to confirm if his father found the Rubaiyat. When I checked Leslie’s relatives I found he had Thomson relatives! Unfortunately these Thomsons do not seem to be related to Prosper’s lot, although I haven’t fully checked this out yet. Leslie’s Thomsons came from Mt Gambier.
I note that Leslie is listed as being a tractor driver in the 1950 Electoral roll. More obfuscation I expect.
Please contact me if you don’t have the Thomson/Leslie information and I will send it. Nick, please pass on my email address to Misca if he wants it. Thanks.
Clive, yes, the chiropodist angle did get my attention, given SMs apparent toe problem.
misca I don’t know why you are talking in riddles. It is no secret that the bus conductor JF Wytkin/s reported that he thought he may have found a copy of the Rubaiyat on his bus, but I have assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that it was a separate incident to the ‘businessman’ scenario. If he hadn’t handed it in to lost property as was reported, why wouldn’t he have just given it to the police and said he found it somewhere else? I doubt that the book would still have been held at lost property after eight months.
Gerry Feltus’ account of the finding of the book by ‘Ronald Francis’ is fairly detailed; he doesn’t give a source for this information but seems to imply that it came from DS Leane.
Found “Tom’s” potential interaction with the Frankston theatre…Am completely gobsmacked (no pun intended) with “Gobbie”. Haven’t found her interest in ballet. Will go back to check.
“Minx” the person that found the rubaiyat was alive when Gerry wrote his book. You have the wrong person I’m afraid.
B Deveson – The son died the same year he was born at 4 months. He had a daughter that was older; she’s included in the family notice about the son. I have been going crazy trying to find the connection to Thomson or Harkness and would really like to share info!
I note that Prof. Abbott lists the Pakies Restaurant guest book in the “Primary source material on the Tamam Shud case”.
On the weekend of 14th-15th June 1947 Pakie’s Restaurant hosted a radio chess competition between Australia and Canada. There are a couple of pages of signatures of the people who attended, and two jumped off the page at me; F. Nosov and G. Nosov, who were probably Feodor Andreevich Nosov, and his wife Galina. Feodor was the NKGB agent “TEKhNIK” in the Venona traffic, who was the NKGB contact with Walter Clayton (“KLOD”) who featured prominently in the Petrov inquiry.
I very much doubt that Feodor and his wife were there for the chess.
B Deveson: it is more than possible that the Nosovs liked a bit of chess. There is a Russian International Master Andrej Nosov (b.1963). 🙂 But I’ll ask Derek Abbott if the Pakies guest book has any more significance than that, see what he says…
Nicko, don’t worry the Professor, he’s a very busy fellow with his own peculiar agenda, just join a few dots your ownself. Isn’t that what code-breakers do?
Pete: all the same, I’d rather find out what his particular dot is than just randomly conjure up a new one. 🙂
Well, that’s what he does … why not get in first?
There is more than a couple of interesting names in the Pakies guest book. One of them being “Hendon”. Some interesting Hebrew quotes and names as well. Has any of you here ever found out who the man or woman was that was driving the military vehicle that struck Mrs Augusta Pakie Mcdougall ? It seems that Jestyn had some Mcdougall names in her family. Can anyone tell me if she was related to the Pakies Club owner ?
It’s been there all along. The reference to “Pakie’s”. No discussion to be found. Why is it there? I’d like to know. The Ballet Russe (1937 – they performed at North Shore, chess players, left wing thinkers) is there a reason for this document to be included in the “primary resources”?
The filter won’t allow me to post the pdf. It has been there all along.
A few “Jessie”‘s, a couple of Solomon’s, the Ballet Russe, chess players from Russia, plenty of Russian names, lots of left-wing intellectuals….An interesting read, but why is it listed as a “primary resource”?
I noted that Florence Anniebell Paige writes her “t”s with a displaced bar. She was appointed to the Royal North Shore Hospital in 1912. In the 1943 Electoral roll for North Sydney she is listed as living at 7 Crows Nest Road, a masseuse. In 1930 she was at 69 Albert Avenue with Menina Blanche Paige-Ranken.
Roger R Mothersole, “Roger the lodger, the sod”, off the MV Suffolk 25/5/1948 sounds like a delightfully Wodehousian character, and may be worth checking out. I also noted the resident artist, Eric Saunders. Plenty of colourful people listed, including Jean Devanny, a noted communist.
Hillman – August Poole (Pakie) and her husband had a son named Robin. “McDougall”‘s, in general, are very busy beavers and, as such, are a little bit difficult to track. As such, I have not yet found a connection but it’s an interesting suggestion. I’m looking forward to DA’s response on this one.
Hi Hillman. “Hendon” at the Pakies Club? Wonder if this was Helmut Hendon who was with Gwenneth Graham the night she died.
Go get ’em Clive
Hi Pete, Just thinking that if Pakies Club was for the bohemian, left wing “darlings” it’s the type of place George Marshall would, probably, have been drawn to like a moth to a flame along with the likes of Jessie who found themselves in the company of a different world of thinking. A recruiting ground for possible spies with left wing tendencies? Wonder if a “Solomonson” visited as, apparently, someone who looked like the SM and called “Solomonson” was reportedly drinking in a Glenelg hotel on Tues 30-11-48.
Yes. It certainly was. Signed Helmut Hendon. Same guy.
There you go Clive, a possible series of connections between Nosov, Gwen Graham, Hendon, Solomonson, Clayton, Petrov, Venona, Marshall and SM.
A web of intrigue, masterfully woven, and once you’re in, you’re stuck there.
Hillman: where is this thing? Where do I burrow?
It would be very interesting to know the names/dates of who was at the club on different nights. I have visions of George Marshall, Jessie, SM, Helmut & Gwen all sat at the same table. I don’t think Alf and Prosper would have felt at home.
From memory I think it was NAA. Pakies guest book.
If George Marshall was at Pakies Club along with Helmut and Jessie, then things become very interesting and, is it at all possible that copies of the Rubbaiyat were passed around and contained a sort of “secret code” for members only?
written on the fly leaf Clive … kind of fits doesn’t it
L(eslie) F(rancis) Wytkins, Partridge St, Glenelg, was, I presume the man who found the book-whereabouts he find the book is a mystery! You can understand why he didn’t want his name advertising, being a bus conductor. Wonder if he just dumped the book in the back of the nearest car in Jetty Road? Did bus conductors have private cars in 1948?
Clive: http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/36677396
Hi Nick, Can’t help wondering if the book was found on the same bus the “SM” took to St Leonards (Glenelg)? Perhaps the “SM” was distracted and didn’t realize he had left it on the bus, a bit of a coincidence that a bus conductor finds the same copy supposedly found later in a car?
Hi Nick, So, on Friday 22 July 1949 Mr Wytkins, of Glenelg, tells the police he found a copy of the book the police were looking for. Then the next day, Saturday 23 July 1949 a “businessman”: also from Glenelg, hands in a copy of the book “found in November 1948” Something is very odd about this story.
I agree. I assumed that one journalist got the information and wrote about it before Mr. Wytkin had the opportunity to explain his reasons for wanting to remain anonymous. If he found the book on a bus and didn’t turn it in to the tramway lost and found, he may have been afraid to lose his job. There are other reasons he may have decided to ask that his name be withheld. (In line, perhaps, with Jestyn’s reasons.) After that one article Nick posted, he was never named again. I always just assumed that he was the one who found the book but that he had asked to remain anonymous.
Clive, the short newspaper article about the bus conductor “L. F. Wytkins” (which I think should be -s, i.e. _Wytkin_) finding the book says that he deposited it at the Metropolitan Tramways Trust, which seems to suggest that Wytkin found the book on a tram. But it doesn’t actually say that.
I believe that the MTT also operated conventional buses in Adelaide (after converting from conventional trams to trolleybuses in the 1930s). So it’s likely that Wytkin worked for the MTT and/or it’s lost property office was a convenient place for him to lodge any lost property. Even something he had found, say, in a car he shared with his brother-in-law.
I can understand that Wytkin didn’t want to be identified at the time and why the police changed his name and occupation in later accounts. But if it turns out that the _Rubaiyat_ really was found on a bus by Wytkin, that would be very interesting — and a bit of a hole in the credibility of the conventional story about SM and the police investigation.
Clive – I’ve wondered the same thing about it being the bus that SM took to Glenelg!
Edited extract from Tamam Shud: The Somerton Man Mystery by Kerry Greenwood, published by NewSouth Books on December 1, 2012…
SMH November 28, 2012 “Riddle on the Sands”:
“The police began a vigorous rummage through public libraries and bookshops hoping to find the actual book from which the page was torn. Amazingly, on July 22, a Mr Ronald Francis recalled seeing a copy of The Rubaiyat in the glovebox of his brother-in-law’s Hillman Minx. When Mr Francis called to inquire, his brother-in-law told him he had discovered the book lying in the back of his unlocked car. On November 30, the car had been parked in Moseley Street, the street above Somerton Beach.
The next day, Mr Francis took the book to the police. The torn-out page matched the book and, what’s more, the book contained a code and a telephone number written in pencil. The case had just become even more complicated.”
I remembered reading about another story of how the book was found and that it involved a brother-in-law and a glove compartment in a car. I went looking and this is what I found. I’m relieved that I wasn’t imagining it but this is not the original article I remember reading. In fact, I think that the original article I read was on Trove. Nonetheless, here is yet another version. I particularly like the “Minx” detail.
; )
Hi Misca/Furphy-See http://www.busaustralia.com for info on Adelaide buses/routes and “The Mail (Adelaide” 06-11-48 about lack of trams and use of buses. I think the scenario with Wytkin and the book, is that he took it home to read, instead of taking it to the lost property office. Once he read that the police were looking for a copy, with a torn page, he realized he had the copy. He went to the police explained he might lose his job, the police were only too pleased to concoct a story about a “businessman” and the car, as they were only too happy to have something turn up to examine-Result? both Wytkin and Police were happy. But, what if the “SM” had actually given Wytkin the book as he got off the bus, as he had no further use for it?
Hi Folks, Sorry, but Gerry Feltus in his book has the bus conductor as Arthur Holderness! I understand that Arthur was not questioned about that particular journey for a few months after the 30 Nov 1948. This still leaves Mr Wytkin and the book and where he found the book, back to square one? I suppose the scenario may well have been that Mr Wytkin “borrowed” the book from the lost property office and forgot to return it?
Clive, yes, Holdernesse sold SM the ticket. That doesn’t rule out Wytkin finding the book in his car.
Unless someone who has seen the police files comes forward and says that Wytkin found the Rubaiyat in a bus, I’m inclined to think that the book turned up in Wytkin’s car in Glenelg. It’s so unlikely it almost has to be true!
One thing in favour of the car story: unlocked cars were common, if not the rule in Australia until the late 1950s at least.
Furphy – Agreed. It doesn’t rule out Wytkin finding the book…But why in his car? Why would someone (anyone) toss a book into a car? It sounds so obviously “made up” to me! If not “made up” then a message sent from a “larger” organization. The Mafia, a spy ring…etc… Who goes around tossing books into cars?
Misca, someone who wanted to get rid of it in a hurry. Which could be (1) SM, thinking that he was being about to be collared with it, or (2) someone implicated in his death, also thinking they were about to be seen carrying it.
Cmon!! A spy decides to dispose of a book with crucial information, so crucial it is written in secret code. How does this “spy” dispose of this crucial piece of evidence? burnt it to ashes…..throw it in the ocean…….into a waste disposal bin Nooo I think ill leave it full intact and bring some attention on myself and the book by putting it into a random persons car.. If he was a spy it may have been Maxwell Smart or Mr Bean.
Nup I dont buy it nor do I that his killer if there was one would be equally as incompetent.
He must have been in that car and had to get out in a hurry. Maybe he was trying to steal the car but got spooked.
The dude: I’m reminded of the Woody Allen movie _Radio_Days_, where burglars are disturbed in the act and run off without their booty form previous jobs, leaving the homeowner better off and with no incentive to report the crime 😉
Anyway, I wouldn’t rule out a spy or spies dumping the _Rubaiyat_ just yet. That is, I should have emphasised “HURRY”. As in pressure to act, induced by being caught by cops, counterintelligence, other illegals, with something significant in one’s hand.
And, while I can’t put myself in the mind of the person who dumped the book, the proof is in the pudding. The _Rubaiyat_ became, if not invisible, then at least inconsequential, for how many months after it was surreptitiously bunged on the back seat of the Hillman? A long, long time anyway for someone who was trying to buy time by dumping the _Rubaiyat_.
The fact that many cars were left unlocked in Adelaide in 1948 is significant. As is the suggestion that Wytkin shared the car. I’ll put it this way: had I had found the book under those circumstances, my mind wouldn’t have jumped to car thieves, other crims or spies. I would probably have assumed that it belonged to my brother-in-law, or someone connected to him. Once that idea was pinged — let’s say days or weeks later — I would most likely have assumed that the book’s owner had mistaken my car for his or her car. Given the passing of time, I don’t know that I would have connected it to a corpse found nearby. Until the _Rubaiyat_ was named in the press as significant to that case.
Pete – I’ll take either label. Thomas Lawrence Keane’s father seems to have married as a “KEAN” and died as a “KEANE”. Not so surprising to me in the many records I’ve perused. Also, the “E” could have rubbed off. I would take both. No need to pick.
Hillman – Where did you go?
Smerdon – Idem.
“Beach Mystery Probe” – Barrier Miner – Broken Hill – Friday 11 February, 1949
Local police believe it is pos-
sible that the man was employed
in the Broken Hill district and are
inquiring at dry-cleaning estab-
lishments.
Among the few clues are
cleaners’ marks on a pair of trou-
sers that may have belonged to
the dead man.
The names “Kean” and “T.
Keane” have also been discovered
on a singlet and necktie.
Pete – SM was quite tall. In this, and many other articles, he is listed as being 5 ‘- 11″.
The dude – Thanks for expressing my sentiments so succinctly. Who on earth disposes their “secret code” into a car? Secret agent guy is being pursued and tosses his book with code into the car of an unknown and completely unrelated person. James Bond music now…Da da da da da dun da…
If he wasn’t a spy, then the person that found the book would most likely know how it got there.
I’ve read that Det. Leane came into the investigation a bit late and in fact, did not interview the person who found the book but read about it in the police files. I have no idea if Gerry F ever talked to the person who found the book but I have seen/read nothing to indicated that he did.
dude, matey: how about the guy who killed him only needed the book for the message on the last page which he ripped out and rolled up and stuffed into his victim’s smallest pocket – the book might have gone through plenty of owners – look at all the inscriptions – and he tossed it, not on the street, somebody might go oi! so into an open car window, then
and he’s gone – 65 years later and where are we?
C’mon Pete you telling me you havent been in the back of a car enjoying a spliff and wandered of for some munchies and leaving your wallet or surf wax behind. I once left a weeks shopping in a cafe in Amsterdam after some milk and cookies.
He was in that car dude but he forgot the book or had to leave in a hurry. He was gonna nick it!!
The dude – I find the car-theft-ring angle interesting…
…But…
Why would a guy who was stealing a car bring a book along with him? And why would he tear a piece of it off and stuff it into his fob pocket?
dude, I’m with you there but it’s not complicated enough the way you want to do it, there’s all these things we know, hundreds of facts about people and codes, legs, toes, digitalin, omar, phone number, the gardens, the dead poet, his dead girlfriend …. mate, this is jigsaw puzzle BIGTIME! .. I’m into it.
In those days getting caught for car theft meant serious jail time. Remember this is 1949. I believe SM was a middle man for a more high level underworld type. Read the Daphne Page v P Thomson details on trove. Prosper claims the deal went bad in Melbourne because a guy paid him with a dud cheque.. When Daphne says “report him to the police” Prospers response is “this is not the type man you report to the police”
This is on the court record. Who was this mysterious business partner of Prosper who he was so intimidated by that mystery guy duds PT out of a fortune over a dodgy car deal but PT is to scared to go to the cops. Remember this is in the same year SM turns up dead up the road from PTs house and with PTs phone number in the book he was carrying……..BUT why the
rolled up paper??? A personal theory is that SM was a middle man him and PT had never met prior to his trip to Adelaide. He doesn’t want to get caught in a sting so the boss. Sets up the deal. Gives the torn out piece to PT and the book to SM along with the phone number. He tells PT that SM will identify himself by being in possession of the book and the matching piece identifies both men when they meet up that they are legit and working for the boss…… Yep its a theory but to me more likely than the long bows that get pulled on this one.
The dude: the problem with Prosper’s “menacing partner” is the apparent lack of follow up: as he wasn’t (as far as we know) named in court or the press. Then as now, court proceedings are privileged: journalists cannot cannot be prevented from reporting evidence or sued over statements made by witnesses, unless the court specifically instructs them otherwise.
Isn’t it more likely that Prosper made a crude attempt at applying the frighteners to Daphne with a fictitious bogeyman? I suppose another explanation could be that Prosper named the partner to the police, who didn’t want him alerted. Or the partner was powerful enough to intimidate the cops and didn’t get his hands dirty.
Either way we are drifting deep into speculation and far from the little that we actually _know_ about the corpse on the beach and the circumstances of his death.
I agree Furph it is deep speculation BUT isn’t the entire spy theory just as speculative if not more?? What do we have to prove he was a spy? the “code” do we know for sure 1. that it was a code and 2. if he even wrote it.
Yes Ive considered that the “menacing partner” was fictitious and designed to scare poor old Daph BUT his story about buying one car and going to Melbourne to sell another matches the exact MO of the car theft rings operating at the time and as discussed previously.
My contention is that this theory has just as much if not more going for it AND that we’ve spent 65 years looking at the nurse and turned up squat when there was one particularly dodgy character who has flown under the radar all this time and who to my mind based on much of his back ground deserves a bit more attention.. Add the tool kit, the “menacing partner” and the fact that Georgie was looking to pay cash for a new home not long after where earlier in the year he was hawking himself out as a cut rate unlicenced cab driver.
George was a criminal: proven fact. Jessie was untruthful about Somerton Man: Feltus. One of the numbers was for a bank: proven fact. Harkness and Thomson went from being impoverished to financially independent: proven fact. Helmut Hendon was a gold smuggler: get the drift?
thedude747 – It’s quite possible that the phone number related to Prosper and not to Jestyn…It was Prosper (er…George) that had been posting in the newspapers – not Jestyn. Jestyn’s issues and reasons for remaining anonymous could be completely separate from the SM case. Family’s have secrets. A mysterious dead guy showing up on a beach that might not have anything to do with you when you have other secrets to hide – might not be so good. Jestyn was hiding something. Maybe more than one thing; but it might not have had anything to do with SM.
I’m not convinced of this but, it’s possible.
Does anyone here remember discussions on the Smithsonian site about Joy Denbigh-Russell and her (possible) relationship with Jessica/Jo? If so, what was the relationship between the two? How did Denbigh-Russell enter the discussion?
Joy knew Jestyn
Here, here Misca, thats exacty what people continue to mis because there so invested in the romantic idea of international intrigue and a love that couldn’t be.
Smerdon – Joy knew many people. It would not be surprising if she knew Jestyn as well. I gathered from the Smithsonian site that they might have known each other but I was hoping someone would remember from the comments how they might have been more succinctly connected…
Joy’s step-sister went to England and lived at Joy’s ex- husband’s address for more than twenty years before she died. Strange, but true.
There are a couple of interesting “inter-connectivity” maps that can be created between Joy and Pakie’s.
The dude: for me, the the strength of the “SM was a spy” theory _and_ the weakness of the “SM was a crook” theory both lie in two things.
(1) He remains unknown to the street-level law-enforcement agencies of Australia, the rest of the English-speaking world and Interpol. What are the chances of a career criminal in his mid-40s pulling that off?
(2) The link to Prosper seems to be indirect and through Jessie, i.e. the evidence is growing that Robin Thomson was SM’s biological son.
Apart from the Soviet spy theories, there are other plausible ones.
There is the Displaced Person” hypothesis, but DPs (official ones) left extensive paper trails.
Or maybe he was a fugitive Nazi/fascist. If he was a war criminal of some description, someone would have been on the case and identified him at some point in the last 65 years.
Perhaps SM fell between two or more of the above camps , such as an Axis official protected and relocated by the Western Allies (for services rendered). Or he was an Israeli agent, looking for Nazis or supplies of second-hand weapons/munitions. And so on.
My favourite is still a Soviet/-affiliated illegal agent, at odds of let’s see, 3½ to 1?
Joy’s second husband died almost exactly 20 years before her sister so perhaps he left property to her when he died.
I believe that the supposed connection between Joy and Jessie was made because of the spy allegations against Joy which were found to be nothing more than malicious gossip. If they were acquainted there was only a small window of opportunity when Joy was in Australia in 1939/40. There was a 15 year age difference between them and I don’t think that Jessie would have been in the same league socially.
Police are after you Debra
Smerdon: *sigh*
Furphy, wouldn’t an illegal agent be under tight control ? Moscow would recall him and debrief him first. Leaving bodies on the beach is messy. I am betting he is American. We are the ones that said no A-bomb secrets for England and Australia until we sort out this spy problem.
at least old sherds is a shorter poster that rick a robb – howareya nick?
just between you and me, on the quiet … the book is almost down mate, and everything got sucked in – who do you know who does movies?
Xplor, yes, the spy trade reminds me of the old joke about the Lone Ranger, saying “the Indians have got us surrounded” and Tonto saying “what do you mean we?” No real friends among intelligence agencies. Or within them.
There were likely CIA illegals in Australia in 1948. MI6 almost certainly had a presence in Adelaide. But I doubt that relations between the Yanks and Australian military intelligence (DMI) or the federal police (CIS) were ever quite _that_ bad. Or between the CIA and MI6.
I agree that SM’s death doesn’t fit quite fit the modus operandi of the Soviets (either GRU, which seems to have run the illegals in Australia in the ’40s, or MGB as precursor to the KGB). Unless SM had seriously gone off the reservation. Then again,the Soviets didn’t always catch and kill their own?
In some ways Jessie fits the profile of a DMI/CIS auxiliary (“sparrow”), recruited in Sydney to hang around left-wing/bohemian/ex-pat haunts and keep an ear to the ground. Perhaps the sparrow fell into her own trap. Either way, we will probably never know the true nature of the relationship between her and SM.
So, at the moment, my hunch is that the Jessie did not realise — until it was too late — who SM really was. Needing a fresh start, she hastily hooked up with Prosper. If she was tracked down by SM, Jessie likely felt threatened for more reason than one. Perhaps she played nice, invited him to come and see his lad while Prosper was out — and served up a pasty juiced with digitalis.
Furph .. I was with you all the way to the end there, but they tested the pasty .. no trace of D. I’m betting it went into his beer or he had to take it … because ….
Scratch the C. I .A. In 1948 they were so messed up they were not allowed to see the Venona messages from Arlington Hall.
J. Edgar Hoover was fighting to keep counter intelligence in the F.B.I. The training of American Agents was so poor that the English set up a secret school in Canada (camp x).
Hi Furphy, Perhaps the “SM” was playing two sides off each other, he was caught out, either knowing to him or, not knowing. Jessie invited him to visit her and his(?) son as a way of finalising his career. Wonder if he had a beer at her home and, Jessie, being a nurse and knowing how much dose would kill him, calmly put it into his drink. (I can’t imagine Jessie & the “SM” walking down the street to Hotel Broadway in case the neighbours later talked to Prosper). Only problem with this scenario is-who took him to the beach?
Following onto to the “SM”s death, if he was seen barely alive between 7 & 8.00pm-lying against the seawall-who was the man being “helped” down the beach later that evening? Both Olive and her boyfriend, plus John Lyons and his wife saw a man’s body in the same position near to the steps but, all four of them did not look at his face.
Clive: good points. Even if there were, by coincidence, two different men lying in that spot at different times, I can’t see Jessie ushering SM onto the beach (baby Robin under arm). Was it Prosper and a crony, or a clean up crew from one or more spy/police agencies?
Nick P (or anyone who knows about such things): could the discrepancy between body’s position and its lividity have been caused by the body being merely moved, some time after death towards the wall and propped up?
In the only photo I can find of the scene as it must have been on November 30, 1948 (i.e. the one with a hand-drawn “X” marking the spot, two flights of steps and before the slope and wall were replaced with rubble), it appears that the sand has a very slight slope, of only a few degrees, down towards the wall — and therefore the body’s head.
If the whole body, including the head, was lying on the sand, could such a minor inclination have caused lividity of the upper body? And could other factors have contributed to the lividity, such as (for argument’s sake) SM’s knees being arched at the time of death?
What I’m also suggesting is this: the theories that: (1) the man on the beach in the early evening of November 30 was a doppelganger, or (2) later that evening SM left the beach/was taken away and (was) returned there later that night, after dying elsewhere, seem to fly in the face of logic.
Both (1) and (2) are extremely high-risk strategies, with little gain for the people involved. For instance, one passer-by with a half-decent memory would have sunk both (1) and (2) Unless the body was arranged for arcane reasons, such as by a psychopath and/or to send some other kind of specific “message” (e.g. the Masonic ritual theory).
I’m inclined to wield Ockham’s razor and suggest that SM was poisoned elsewhere (and probably robbed and cleaned-up) on the afternoon of November 30, before he went to the beach, that he died there and his body remained until the following day.
The discrepancy between the lividity and SM’s final posture may be explainable by (say), a well-intentioned passer-by, moving the body — perhaps in a vain attempt to revive SM.
Plenty of comment about how he was found, not much about how he got there … the man seen carrying a man was later on in the evening, with the pub just up the road maybe that’s him explained.
Digitalis takes a while to work, there might be gradual stupefaction, and an inability to shout, talk. Somebody settled him there to die.
Lyons the witness saw him lying with his head on the sea wall, and he moved his arm.
Olive saw him later, but only from the waist down. What if when he moved his arm, a little later he moved himself, and settled his head on the sand. He was strong enough. Maybe the stones hurt the back of his head.
What if the man Olive saw looking down on the body, was waiting for her to leave to he could slip down and put SM’s head back on the wall, what if he stuck a lit smoke into his mouth to make him look like all was ok. These folks were good on detail.
Pete:
You make good points when you say the killer/s “were good on detail.” I would say professional. Also about how a fatal does of digitalis “takes a while to work, there might be gradual stupefaction, and an inability to shout, talk. takes a while to work”.
We part company when you say “somebody settled him there to die”. It’s possible although that suggests an unprofessional or spur of the moment murder by an disorganised (or irrational) amateur rather than a hit by a gangster/spy/bent copper etc. A professional killer does not hang around someone they knew has been fatally poisoned. Not for long. An it’s even better for the killer if the victim will wander off to die by themselves. Returning to the scene is something that some killers do; but not professionals. Returning a dying victim to a spot from which he had been taken is a high cost, low gain tactic. And also smacks of amateurs.
So why isn’t it likely that SM:
(1) walked a short distance to the beach after he was given or deliberately took a dose of (a slow acting) poison?
(2) was on the beach continually from early evening until he died and his corpse was found the following morning?
(3) had no connection whatsoever to the vague report of a man “carrying” another man?
(4) was lying on the sand, with his feet slightly higher than his head, when lividity set in and his body was moved and propped up after death by a passer-by?
Bit of a time gap here but guess I can enter the fray. I guess you all know that John Alexander Scott Coutts (Willie) was also into the Pakies scene before he left for the big Apple in 45. This is Mr. Fetish & Bizarre and best buddies with FBN(I) cross dressing buddies in the states. Left his Mrs. In oz, jumped on a boat and never came back, ended up carking in Blighty after destroying all his records and by the way he was born in Singapore. Wasn’t it suggested that SM might have been into the high heels and bondage (light cord in his kit) big calves & scrunched up toes. Wonder if he knew Jock Armstrong Byron. Oh one other thing if SM had tachycardia it may well be that he died suddenly from having missed out on his foxglove medication and not Vicki verca capice.
A couple of comments on Ray Whitrod arguably our greatest detective and spymaster. He just happened to be right there on the job at SAPOL when all this Tamam Shud thing went down and was probably working major crime. In 49 sometime he went over to ASIO taking his RAAF cipher skills with him and was later the main man on the Soviet desk. Subsequently he became first commissioner of COMPOL thence PNGPOL and finally to QLDPOL where he was brought to heel by his anti corruption and pro police women initiatives. My query is why haven’t we heard anything from him re SM either with regard to his thoughts on the initial investigation or subsequently relating to possible espionage. He was possibly the top detective in Adelaide at the time experience wise in a very small plainclothes office. It does seem strange to me and someone out there might have some thoughts. Ray is unfortunately no longer with us and having also been an honest cop does not come up on SAPOL’s blast from the past list of notables in that force. Weird ain’t it.
I guess that the original beach photo of the crime? scene doesn’t get a great deal of attention these days but just lately Milongal & myself have had somethings to say about it somewhere over there, namely about the so called X spot and condition of the beach stairs. However I think we also mentioned the little British looking soft top parked on the roadway twixt the two mansion houses, and somewhat in jest I mentioned that SM could have placed old ‘Omar’s’ book in the car there and not in Jetty Street as we all ( except Nick) take for granted. As we know nothing about that particular little jalopy, might I suggest that it could have been borrowed by our man, seeing it unlocked and all earlier on, perhaps just after buying his last meal at Wenzell’s cake shop. He hot wires it with one of ‘The Dude’s’ quicky ignition key override devices and heads off to the beach to enjoy his pastie, he being an experienced car thief afterall. After enjoying his meal, then cleverly using the book’s last page to clean up he removes the TS slip, pockets it for later closer analysis and puts the old ’59 translation in the glovebox. Now anything could have gone down after that but my personal favourite would go something close to what occurred to ‘Andy’, who on being caught with said jumbuck, ups and sprang into the billabong and so drowned. In this case the troopers might well indeed have been the brother-in-law and or the equally elusive Mr. Francis Esq. When our SM attempts a getaway by going down the broken stairs or over the embankment, he sprawls arse over breaking the fall with his neck at ‘X marks the spot and that’s where he remained, dead or mighty close to it. The so called lividity marks might well have been bruises and no matter, upon seeing what had occurred the other attendees taking the cue, leave the scene somehat handily and undetected, returning to claim the vehicle only after the excitement dies down on 1/12/48. Why go through the nonsense about handing the book over two months later? Well why not, the heat’s off and of course the boys want to find out who the fellow is just like the rest of us. Don’t worry too much about the lack of ID, bumpers &c as those items can be explained away in any number of ways.
I don’t like Wenzell for the pasty. Firstly, Wenzell’s is located near Brighton Rd. SM would have had to walk inland from the bus stop at Adelphi Tce (or get off the bus earlier, in which case we’re still adding to his km’s that day – which doesn’t fit the shiny shoes). Secondly, Wenzel’s seems to advertise (even in 1950, 1952) as a “Cake Shop” – which to me is different to a bakery.
That said, I’m sure there were a lot of bakeries around (there was one on Anzac Hwy, I think), which if it’s where the Orange Spot bakery is today, it’s right across the road from Adelphi St….
Cold pasties are great with sauce
I didn’t mean Wenzels pur se, but merely someplace where a man could get himself a half decent Cornish pastie in the near vicinity to Somerton Beach. For the benefit of those unaware, it was the place where the ‘Beaumont Kids’ were known to have purchased their pie, pastie and cakes before mysteriously disappearing on Australia Day 1966.
I didn’t realise that was where the Beaumont’s paid their pound…..I sort of always assumed they’d have gone somewhere closer the beach.
Pete: Far as we can make out, Texas good old boy Otis McCoy Pierce (sic) 1902 (sic) 1981 is one and the same with Pearce (sic?) 1912 – 1978, the Dolin escort circa. 1938. From on line photos they are identical, even compensating for the age lines.
Peteb: ….and I have a slender link between Otis and his Australian sponsor, though maybe you might not appreciate him being identified. Anyhow the chap ended up as a well known C&W guitar picker out West Texas somewhere, surely you’ll recall his big hit ‘Under every bush and tree’.
A lot of interesting chat here. But:- 1) The man drinking at the bar flashed his license and a bystander saw what he thought was Solomonson. It is very unlikely that this was his name because when you look at nationalities and names this doesn’t get a run very often. My opinion is that the bystander saw Solomontown which was his address at the fuel and airbase located just outside Adelaide near Port Pirie. 2) Jessica spoke Russian because her family’s Jewish background was in the Russian speaking part of Israel. 3) If anyone bought army surplus clothing after WW2 the US, authorities removed the tags as wearers were not to portray themselves as military unless they still were. That US law has changed in recent years 4) There are 2 stories here, boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy finds girl again and ……….. you know that bit. The code is her message to him, we just haven’t found the key. The other bits we may never know but his identity will be revealed soon.
Alan H : Sorry to disappoint, but our man in the Glenelg pub with the Solomonson military pension card was undoubtedly career criminal and army deserter John Salomonson who had arrived in Adelaide with wife Audrey from Blighty in September 1948 and lived for a while in nearby Brighton before settling in Victoria where he reportedly died in 1963. I mentioned this some months back to no great acclaim but it can’t really be mistaken identity unless you have some better insight.
JS, is it certain that John Solomonson had a military pension card? Given the nasty ways that the heroes were treated I find it hard to believe that a crook and a deserter had scored a military pension. But, then, I discovered a few years ago that Abe Saffron was in charge of army records for a while, and I know of a case where the family of a Choco Soldier had all his records disappeared so he didn’t have to go back to Kokoda. The family had family connections to Thommo’s who probably had connections to Saffron.
Byron: They didn’t call him John ‘of the Forge’ Salomonson for nothing. You’ll get a fair feeling for this flam flammer from my 16/6/20 post on TS/SM. Regarding the pension card in his name, it was spotted by a police witness from Kapara in a Glenelg pub according to the hacks of the day. I’d say it was likely to have been slippery John himself who called it in, trying it on to get his own monicker fitted to SM because he was on the lam.
Most punters seem to have not been impressed by startling revelations as to a most likely candidate of the Kapara patient’s ‘Solomonson’ military pension card holder which I revealed to the few remaining SM punters some time ago, self included. Thanks to Byron, I’m determined now to look further into Salomonson’s crooked past to see if I may have overlooked something important on the initial pass. Perhaps I might with luck enlist some help in doing so if other irrelevant SM trivialities can be put on hold.
John was born 1910 in GB to a Dutch father Johan and English born mum Francis de la Fargue/Farge/Farque and he had an older brother David. In 1940 he was recruited into the Hamshire Regiment of foot for war service which seems not to have suited for he deserted twice and then got himself a new set of forged ID papers. When arraigned for the fourth time on felony charges in 1943/44, it was for cheating his gullible old landlady of her life savings which got him 12 hard, all of this being revealed in the Singleton NSW Argus of the day.
So how did the bastard end up getting on a ship at Tilbry with wife Audrey and heading direct for Adelaide in September ’48, being so confident as to give a private residential address to authorities upon arrival. Address in question being 33 King St. North Brighton (Northwood/Curtis) and short walking distance to XSM. His statement to Safcol was made on Dec. 7 and concerned a fellow pub patron who resembled the beach body newspaper photo that he met in Glenelg on Nov. 30. Sounds like a plausable, helpful scenario, until one realises that we’re dealing with a dispicable scoundrel with an MO history of deceptive & ruthlessness that might well include murder.
Unfortunately that’s where my trail ends, well almost. All that is left to the story is that the geni paywall will only reveal that our man passed in 1964 at St. Kilda Vic. at age 54, there being nothing in other indices like Melbourne cemeteries, PROV wills &c to attest such information. If anyone can dig further into the fellow’s murky GB past or as to his movement from his Brighton Beach digs to Melbourne crimeland, it might dig up some connecting tissue that Feltus didn’t bother to cover in the feeble excuse offered for his own Solomonson conclusion ie. “Sapol inquiries with Repatatriation Dept. on the pension card ID satisfied that there was no likely connection to the beach body”.
Why would a hicktown independent rag like Singleton Argus make such a big deal out of miscreant Salomonson’s criminal activities in far away England, full length feature story and all. It being August ’44 Operation Market Garden and Battle of the Bulge proving touch & go for the allies in Europe, plus Doug MacArthur’s long awaited return to the Philippines in full swing and the diggers taking care of 30000 starving Nips in locals closer to home. Almost like it was inserted quite recently so as to point some decrepit armchair sleuth in a certain direction, which still doesn’t account for the original does it?. On another lead; the Brighton address in 1948 was owned by Mrs. Betsie Norwood of Mile End but let to a family named Curtis, so JdlFS either knew one of the pair when providing the residential details to Aust. Quarantine, or he pulled it from a phone book as being close to the beach and had nothing more to do with the place. Recall that the ‘Solomonson’ witness told police he was a patient at Red Cross Kapara in Moseley St., a stones throw from 90A but apparently able to get a few wets down at the local during his infirmity. Trail stops there unless NAA gives me one fir free being a regular of some substance and all.
S&M time….
S&M doesn’t identify North Brighton as a suburb (althoughI think it does occasionally list it in the alphabetical listing – have to confirm). Rather the Brighton postal district comprises Brighton (which stretches through what today are Hove and North Brighton) and Ballara Park (which is literally just Dunrobin rd). In any event, King St is in modern-day Brighton (it’s on the Northern side of Brighton, but there’s a whole suburb between it and North Brighton). King George Ave runs through modern day North Brighton (and is quite a main road) but based on S&M it appears to have either been a very small road back then, or had very limited housing on it….
As well as the 2 names you had for King Ave (F. Curtis and E.C Northwood) I have a Mrs AM Robinson at that address (in at least ’48, ’49, ’50,’51,’52 S&M)…I know robinson is a common name, but it’s ringing a vague bell…
That said, current googlemaps seems to suggest that 33 King might be a dual occupancy including what would otherwise be 36 Alfreda st (and Alfreda St appears to have been unpopulated back then).
S & M time….
milongal: I’ve become quite familiar with the vagaries of the S.A. books, but Victoria has me stumped. In the years you ckecked for Brighton, nothing comes up in the Alpha. section for J. or A. G. Salomonson, so perhaps St. Kilda is worth a short through to 1964. By the way wifey Audrey Gertrude was into jewellery design in ’53 and was known to the Royal Agricultural Society in ’51.
milongal: Robinson rang my chimes too…and of course it was an Audrey Robinson who hitched up with A.G. John Rau’s dad Arthur of Main St. Henley Beach after he divorced in ’46. Might have to confirm this being pure coincidence, as I suspect, ie., Audrey Robinson and Audrey Salomonson at the same abode in ’48.
Milongal: Mrs’ Robinson A.M. & Northwood E.C. at 33 King St. in ’47 but no Curtis. Too many A.M.R’s born between 1887 & 1901 to get a fix. E.C.N’s husband Chuck was killed by accident ’51 (yeah sure). Looks like two different Audrey’s, Gertrude and Isabelle born same period, but different dates…Can almost call the dogs off on that line for mine but as your mate GC would say “Well spotted”.
Question arises; why did John and Audrey Salomonson decide on South australia as a place of fuure resettlement in September ’48, then be in Sydney by ’51 and subsequently St. Kilda where he is said to have died in ’64. We’re yet to find out full details, or what ever became of Li’l Audrey.
Question two, which should have come first. How can a recaptured wartime military deserter two times over and four times convicted felon liable to be declared an habitual criminal get cleared to take offer of free passage to a dominion country with intentions of resettlement. In 1948 Bill Simpson and his boss Arthur Callwell would have been aghast at such laxity shown by Britain in allowing it to occur and under their watch no less……Unless John Salomonson happened to accept GCHQ’s offer of indemnity by undertaking a delicate task in the colonies suited to his profession vis. To locate and deal with rogue ex partner in crime Tom Keane at behest of the British Home Office for reasons of national security.
Tomaso Keenich @ Tom King was born around 1906 in Nikosia Cyprus into a prosperous fishing family from Turkish Kastellorizo, having an Italian mother and domineering Greek father who had fleets working the cold Baltics, deep water cod grounds off northern Scotland and the warm Mediteranean. Young Tom was very well grounded in all facets of a hard life at sea by his early teens, could skin a Baltic minnow before you could say Audrey Robinson or slit any detested Grecian throat that came within slicing rang of his short improvised gutting knife. His body was developed much like that of a prize fighter or grappler though without encumbent damaging effects and he was smart as Pythagoras but cunning as a seaborn bilge
rat.
Despight his unlikely origins, Tom was British to the boot straps in his loyalties, spent his last three years of schooling in Newcastle and spoke the dialect like a colliers whelp. By the early thirties he was supervising family fish business at Grimsby docks which had slowed to a trickle consequence of the world wide depression. When he tried for entry to the British Civil Service, hoping for a foreign posting based on his multi language skills and man handling credentials he found himself seconded to GCHQ OSOD section for training as a field ops man. Tom was posted to Hamshire in 1939 where after completing basic training with the home regiment he was elevated into the ways of effecting non judicial sentences with extreme prejudice, only for the better good of King and Empire.
After spending most of the war years in Australia and New Zealand diligently applying himself to operational objectives as defined by his controllers in far off blighty and having gained a reputation for his wet work efficiency Tom branched out. He decided to subcontract some private work to keep him in touch with changing peacetime initiatives. This being of a type which he was most keen on pursuing to establishing his reputation with the new breed of home grown enforcers and standover merchants like the Melbourne market black hand mob with whom he had only heard rumours of. Needless to say, by 1948 the Home Office organization had lost confidence in the integrity of their main man in the antipodes and efforts to recall agent Keenich went unheeded. It was thus time for long overdue implementation of an internal sanction order and the wheels were set in motion accordingly….tbc.
The Somerton Beach sanction was to be undertaken at behest of GCHQ, approved by the Home Office which had sought and was assured all available assistance by it’s most loyal affiliate in Australia, the Labour Government no matter the vagaries and chicanery involved. To head up the local organization and planning and ground preparation, was to be a most trusted and highly credentialled officer in the form of Colonel Sir Arthur James Lee MC & bar m.i.d & scar. Adelaide home grown sporting lad, St. Peters College old boy, Field Commander on Borneo and leader of (in time) a million plus RSL ex diggers who would fight and die all over again for him if need be. Artie was also adviser on GB immigration to the Federal Government, president of the Australian Hotels Assoc. and whatsmore married to a lass who played a starring movie role opposite an Oscar winning best actor and ex fighting man in his own right (guess who).
Sir Arthur’s credentials for the job as planner and facilitator for the 1948 take down of by the rogue expenable ex operative T. Keenich (Keen without the edge for operational purposes), included his being able to put the program together on his own turf using his Glenelg RSL cronies ie. Jack Lyons the jeweller, Cleveland Snoswell logistics planner, and plotential eye witness ex matelot Gordon Strapps who was of deliberate small stature, colour blind and extremely short sighted. Well before arrival of entrapment operative Salomonson (expedable if need be), the team had undertaken training for the mission which included memorising letter encrypted local street layout, tread remival of the street to beach stairway, taking down an overhead light staunchion and arranging for a suitable body location below line of sight of the roadway railing above and upper level windows of the two story Alvington mansion opposite. This they marked with a large letter X for police guidance on ‘D’ for demise day in hope they could locate it in broad daylight.
Culmination of tge SM sting operation is easy to fathom by those familiar with tactics employed in similar sanctioned take downs, planned and executed by a team of well drilled, operators confident of achieving their mission with minimal fuss, drama or risking loss of initiative due to unforseen circumstances. There are however one or two things relevant to the successful outcome of this particular excercise that should be known in order to prevent any misconceptions of factual realities. These mainly relate to the oft stated but most doubtful involvement of a host of other players said to have been part of some fanciful scheme who had no connected whatsover, contrary to long accepted opinion brought about by a most deliberate false evidentiary trail.
For a start all those folk who stand by anything that came to light around the time of the 1978 televised Inside Story program three decades after the event, need to appreciate that such speculative hearsay and inuendous materials were almost definately inserted to maximise viewing audience, being based purely on cerain speculative assumptions of presumed fact. In this case most of the key players would have had at best very little to do with the case other than circumstantial presence in the vicinity of the beach body’s locatiin and overblown self serving connection to a certain piece of evidence that has been used as a tool to prosecute unsubstiated and quite preposterous theories with no basis of fact. No need to identify the culprets as this would serve no purpose, though a fine example involves a certain chemist who was supposed to have handed police copy of a book, part of which was found on the victims attire months after his discovery. Turns out that the informant got the detail wrong, including names addresses which don’t fit the known facts, but which are nevertheless still taken as gospel by willing dupes who have read his authoritive true detective account of the case.
In the interests of a perceived lack of support for my histerical fiction, I’ll put the penultimate chapter of A Somerton Tale on hold until I can come up with a more plausable Tomasi Keenich @ Tom King take down plot….On the non fiction side it seems from decemination of new data, courtesy of RAS Victoria that an Audrey Gertrude Salomonson may herself have been a guest of His Majesty prior to her arrival in the colonies. In 1951 she received two honourable mentions for soft toy entries in a Melbourne competition, followed in ’53 by registration of a pair of felt backed sequin earings, likes of which are usually taught whilst in confinement.
Recently I stumbled onto your blog and found it interesting that nobody has been able to resolve the Somerton Man’s identity or solve the code found in the book.
The code itself looks like it should be easy enough, but I’m sure that many great minds have spent many hours working on it. I don’t have the time to give to solving the code completely, but did discover something that might be of interest to others that are still working on solving it.
By reversing the order of the first line — W R G OA B A B D — to — D B A B A O G R W — and applying simple substitution methodology one can make the words T A M A M S H U D fit the code letter pattern. It could be just a coincidence, but I tend to think not.
Hope this little tidbit helps in solving the code.
Peteb: be reminded that the ‘fat little yappy bloke’ of your latest otherwise acceptable recapitulation of the Somerton day one scenario, was Jack Lyons, a rather lean (11st. 3lb) six foot master jeweller who knew how to hold his tongue from service in two world wars. Apart from that little blooper, notwithstanding misspelling of Strangway you done well for a change…while you’re there old cock, you might check the Feltus 2010 book for the suitcase ‘scatter’ pic, subject of Gordon’s post to himself @ Dai Bach on 7th May (St. Leonards bus ticket). He claims to having used his photo skills for highlighting an original poor caption for Derek Abbott about ten years ago. I know the mah’s full of shit, but so far I’ve only been able to trace one very sharp version to the Smithsonian site of 2011. PS I think you’ll find that GC’s latest snide ‘penny dropping’ post to you, somehow refers to your flagrant misuse of his prized Clive Turner identity. .
Obliged, JS. Some liberties are in order given the constricted time frame of the doco drama … fiction must be served.
Fiction a plenty at the GC BS/TS site PB…have solved the 2012 alleged pushing of the badly underexposed (colour) suitcase ‘scatter’ photo (print) conundrum that had actually been used extensively by various commenters from as early as 2009. Only site that did not see fit to make use of it (in full), when discussing it’s obvious clandestine make-up ie. ‘loupe’ with finger grips for detecting underlying miniscule script etc., was our soviet desk chief himself, dishonourable C.Gordon Cramer Esq.
All ado about nuthing here, which is where where SM intetest seems destined to end up unless a rejuvination can be achieved soonest. All accept humbug Gordon Cramer who’s still plugging away with a concoction of ammonia/lime juice solution lifting subsurface miniscule codex from otherwise depth defying camera obscura surface images…over on PB’s favourite Websloth site for instance, Jacinta nee Jazz of Alison Bean ‘stuck together’ letter famewhich we delt with in 2016, seems to be set for re-emergence in keeping with current trends. So I’m wondering is it at all possible that GC’s powerful cocktail might be just the brew needed to separate the pages and allow us opportunity of coming to grips with that particular conundrum.
Maybe he’s got shares in lime trees?
Limey up a lemon tree, makes for better copy if you get my drift.
Just what is this audacious flim flammer up to now?….Recall author C.G. Cramer’s great Danetta Code book release fanfare a month ago and tips on snagging our electronically signed copy. Well sadly, according to to-days briefing notes on MI6 espionage links to certain dead letters outlining the Danetta code assemblage, the coveted first edition is yet to hit an on-line Amazon e-shelf near you. So who knows when we will get our one chance for the Danetta vandetta. I myself have decided as a matter of conscience to judge the book by it’s cover only, irrespective of it’s loosey applied physics and mind boggling content.
contentCntent.
I thought I saw a link to it on amazon recently…..suffice it to say I wasn’t interested enough to follow the link
Whilst ‘trolling’ through Gordon Cramer’s numerous way out on-line Danetta Code book promotions, I chanced to come across a references to a Ms. Danetta Lavell’s standing within the Brain Injury Association of America and Ms. Danetta Sloan’s rivetting treatise on ‘Dementia, diagnosis and care’…I guess it’s likely that our gals, having correctly identified the Code author’s own obvious late stage symptoms, used it as a means to promote benefits of early detection.
milongal: in his latest offering yesterday, Gordon explains “it is a long story and it will be revealed in detail in The Danetta Code book when it is finally released”. So what does that tell us….keeping in mind that lack of book related comments would seem to support GC’s statement..for once!
Hi ho, here we go for another tedious round of long dead president Adam and his 6th degree of separation to notorious Hay banknote designer, George A. Teltscher and fellow Austrian internee Tibor ‘Danetta’ Kuldor….Got something for Gordon Cramer that he is sure (not) to take onboard, in that pre war German Reichmark notes were unique in that rather than standard serial numbers, they included hidden underwriting letters set within hundreds of nonsense miniscule markings to deter counterfeiting…Does that sound familiar Flash ?..Yeah just like your not so original Hay bank notes.
Pb: talking of unusual invisible ink recipes, one less ‘cumbersome’ method of application that you won’t find on Wikipedia, is a simple solution of water and a certain type of flour which I’m loath to name under terms of the Official Secrets Act. Suffice to say that it will remind some old the old Robbie Burns song Comin’ Thro’ the Rye….Speaking on a more somber note, you would have picked up on your ol’ pal Gordon Cramer carelessly demoting Captain (RN) Sir Mansfield-Smith Cumming to a lowly Commander, typical of your average contemporary wanker.
To quote boyhood hero Edmund Hillary when he came off Everest to be met by fellow climber George Lowe, ‘Well, George, we knocked the bastard off.’
I feel like echoing those sentiments.
Funny that, mention of your boyhood hero Hillary without Sherpa Tenzing Norgay. Just an hour ago I was trolling through the old Adelaide Advertiser researching material for my Voynich Manuscript final analysis. To my delight I happened on an interesting 1905 article on Wilfrid Wojnik and his little wife Edith whose favourite uncle Sir George of the East India Company was rewarded for his service by having Chomolungma (mother Goddess of the World) re-named Mt. Everest in his honour.
Pb: Pretty sure it was George Everest’s sidekick Andrew Waugh who first put two feet atop Mt. Everest and named the hill after his boss; so your hero worship may have been misplaced…also my deliberate mistake with Wilfrid’s wife Ethel, not Edith and her relationship to Sir George, actually great niece, might be overlooked.
I’ll admit I am intrigued by the ‘A’ (although my ‘gut feel’ is that if the letters were simply an acrostic (especially for a homemade verse) then it’s probably quite like to have lines like:
……., And……
……, As……
And there’s probably a reasonable probability that they’d appear (at least roughly) in the middle. Exactly in the same place is more impressive, but (IMO) not beyond the realms of possibility .
All of that said, it seems to me a tedious way to signal 28 (or 7, or any other number). More to the point, and it’s an issue I’ve often raised about the microcode – it seems to me silly to put in something that appears to be a suspicious code to hide something that is ultimately secret. Surely there are more subtle ways to do the same thing? In fact, the old cryptography problem arises that there needs to be some shared secret between the 2 parties (in this case that a letter in a particular place will resolve to a number). In that case, why not simply share the number itself? What I mean is that you somehow need to communicate how to work out where to look – so it seems curious to obscure it so obtusely. Even if there’s a necessity to both point out the location to look AND authenticate some other party, the code page still seems slightly redundant at best (or perhaps superfluous) and only serves to attract attention that there is something odd going on. It would be trivial to arrange to hide it in the first two (or last two, or middle two) numbers of a phone number – something that would be far less mundane, and possibly never have attracted any attention that the page is even remotely suspicious.
TBH, most of this is why I don’t really like the spy hypothesis – or at least the ‘code page’ being relevant to any spy hypothesis…it’s just too suspicious. We’re back at my favourite old rant that we need to simultaneously accept clever espionage tricks coupled with the most basic/naive mistakes. I’ve always liked the idea of the letters being an acrostic for a Rubaiyat-like verse (or even somebody’s own poem).
***************************
Totally off topic (and I can’t believe I’m adding this) there’s a psychic dreamer who I’ve stumbled across a couple of times and forgotten about it who has scrawlings of the code page (from April 2013). There’s a lot that makes me think it might be fake (there’s some interesting similarities like the ‘c’ being smaller than the ‘Q’), but it sort of interests me how he lays out the letters (and some of his interpretations on the letters). If you go to briansdreams dot com and search within the site for MLIAOI you should find it.
His code page leans upwards to the Right (getting more diagonal toward the bottom) and is laid out roughly like this (search it yourself for more detail):
(deliberate use of whitespace, I hope the internets don’t group it differently – letters next to each other are particularly squished, 1 space is sort of closer to normal spacing)
— BEGINS —
M RGOABABD
M L I A O I (Not crossed out)
N T BIM PANEtP (something that looks like a chinese character to the right)
MLIABO AI AQ c (I think he interprets the ‘I’ after ‘A’ as an ‘L’, not sure)
I T TM TS A MSTGAB (It’s a narrow A not dissimilar to the actual page)
N SAM B I M P (This line obviously doesn’t exist on SM’s page)
(LONG UNDERSCORE)
HILL 4161 (the L in HILL are more rushed than in the rest)
— ENDS —
Some of the interesting things:
– Lots of different types of A (like in our code page), some rounded, some pointy, some narrow, some with leaning crossbar etc)
– ‘S’ looks more like ‘5’ (like in our one)
– Different sorts of loops on B’s, P’s and R’s (like ours) – especially the B’s – some have VERY pronounced loops
– 3rd line starts ‘N’ (but looks slightly W like)
– First and 3rd line have letters ‘M’ and ‘N’ but both are drawn in ways that aren’t 100% clear
Mainly I think it’s a crock, but it is enough similar to pique interest, and enough different for it not to be an obvious direct copy….
Addendum – my first thoughts on HILL 4161 is that it could refer to the suburb Alexandra Hills (postcode 4161) – but because of the underscore, could be totally unrelated (I don’t follow this guy because I’m not into that sort of thing, but the impression I get is that he claims his dreams are (or can be) spatterings of multiple things, not necessary one specific thing at a time)
Now we know why the original Rubaiyat never surfaced … can’t have the punters knowing what was between the lines.
Appreciate your thoughts, Milongal, though it’s worth remembering that these men operated in a world populated by others who knew of similar methods to convey information and who had the skills to interpret the means used by the opposing side to convey information. This might also explain the absence of any photos of the Freeman Rubaiyat as it may well have fallen into the right hands very early in the piece.
A time honoured system for a two party contractual YSMY&ISYM proof of ID circa. 1948 might have each operative producing his half of a legal tender Australian note with serial number on either side of HRH George VI. I guess in the SM spy case it could have been an extra caution for each party to know a verse or two of the then popular Aeroplane jelly jingle, ie., (1) “I like it for dinner I like it for tea”. (2) ” A little each day is a good recipe” (1) “The quality’s high as the name will imply”. (2) And it’s made from pure fruit one more good reason why”….then in perfect harmony for a deal closing finale, ” I like Aeroplane Jelly. Aeroplane Jelly for me”
John Sanders: that theory’s never going to fly.
Could have been a ‘trifle’ meeting?
Neither does yours, Nick old boy.
Nick Pelling: guess you’re right but, no more idiotic than one apparently put to good effect by Harry Gold’s Klaus Fucks moll who preferred his home grown Jell-o package top jig saw version, albeit without any need for the catchy jingle. I think it was Gordon Cramer who first flew that one by us to show how espionage deals go down.
David Niven and Roger Moore made their 007 secret agent debuts at age 67 and 57 respectively according to my scanty knowledge of the genre. That would make them the oldest active spies by far, unless you include Somerton Man as contender for the title. By most reliable accounts dead Jerry S. must have been of a similar vintage, probably somewhere in between the other better known pair of worthies. Either way I can’t see the man having had too much success as a successful field operative, bearing in mind his less than flamboyant taste in clothes and poor state of dental health etc.
….for example, Sth. Australia’s own chief of intelligence in 1948 had never been exposed to field work, nonetheless K was a most efficient director of operations through the difficult war years and beyond…a likely reason for K.K.’s deskbound career lies in a telling observation on his WW1 recruitment waiver document ‘Insufficient teeth’…ps. Roger Moore was 57 for his last (not debut) Bond film role in ‘A view to Kill’, my mistake sorry.
Doesn’t say which of our SB Security chiefs teeth were missing however, I have it on good authority that in the case of Jerry Somerton eg., ‘missing maxillary lateral incisors are the most likely teeth absent at birth. The condition can be most often attributed to hypodontia and is extremely common, it being the most typical of all dental phenomina’….and here’s me taking for a given from the likes of DA, BD, PB and SM guru C. G. Cramer, that SM’s missing molars were rare as hen’s teeth (npi).
John Cleland came out strong in his testimony when he said that, “I did not get the impression (note the pun) that he was in the habit of a dental plate…..”. I guess a man with 7000 PMs under his belt would stand a better than fair chance of knowing by looking for clues ie. certain give away wear marks on the bearers. So Gerry certainly wasn’t worried about his lack of good looks which likely precludes his occupation in the espionage field or, as a grand theft auto man…Any opinions or any ideas from the gallery most welcome!
How’s a bloke with a build like Johnny Sattler going to bulk up without meat chewables? Or, in other words, when was the last time a leaf eater ever won a Mr Universe competition?
Check out Doc Dwyer’s tooth chart and note that SM was deficient in both the bite and chew departments. That means his diet was likely restricted to Sanitarium wheatbix or Uncle Tobys oats for breaky and a plate of rice with sardines, mashed spuds and some King Osca canned sardines for dinner. The odd bowl of aeroplane jelly and custard for a desert treat might also have been tolerated. I can vouch for that but, I’m not complaining one skerrick in having had a similar set up for yonks.
Well, if he didn’t have teeth to chew meat etc, how did the SM end up having such a strong body? Exercise?
I’ve contacted your dentist, Dusty, he says you couldn’t gum up a plate of overcooked pasta .. but then again neither can I, it must be a generational thing.
Clive: I seem to recall that old American comics and periodics of the forties were choked with ads that claimed that by using their canned high energy products, a skinny weakling could bulk up and become another Johnny Weissmuller in no time flat. Perhaps that’s where Jerry got his broad shoulders and high calf muscles from though, at the expence of losing most of his chompers through general neglect.
I guess it’s entirely conceivable that Jerry was in Glenelg to have a set of dentures fitted after having most of his naturals extracted and impressions taken during a previous appointment. I note from another CM threadlink that Fred and son John Smerdon had their practise at 128 Jetty Rd. in ’48 and I’ve since found that Drs. J.V. Christopherson and M. Kenihan also had their ‘I. Pullem’ shingles out in Jetty Road. I’m now wondering whether any of Lionel Leane’s lads thought to check with local dental surgeons or mechanics for possible leads on their near toothless ‘John Doe’.
Dr. Jack Cristophersen had been in the Army Dental service during WW2 and at discharge in ’46 was living at 25 Phillips Street Somerton, fifty three yards from the beach and a pleasant stroll from Jetty Rd. via Moseley and Tarlton Sts. Nice place with plenty of parking and ideal for a home based second dental surgery; so if anything, it lends weight to the theory that Jerry may have had an appointment with our respected ex AIF dental surgeon/mechanic.
So whats the holdup? When should us Somerton dilletantes start to think the wait has been to long? We have been “on the edge of our seats” per Nicks message for over a year now.
Matt
JS: Perhaps a silly thought, but what if the SM had worked as some kind of ranch hand in the Americas, riding horses hence his calf muscles etc, a place where dentists are as rare as hens teeth, later arriving in Australia, with his US made jacket, to try his luck in 1948?
Two things, Matt, who he was and what he was.
Clive: there was such a man Carl Henry Willhelm Von C. from memory..see miscellaneous.
Clive: I think we’re overloading our bobbin by taking for granted Ugo Pozza’s take on Jerry’s sure fire made in America jacket and all. For starters feather stitching had been well known to Australian mtm tailors and off the peg designers from colonial times. As for y’man’s claims of expertise, he arrived in Adelaide as a bum 18 year old grifter in 1927 with no experience in the rag trade at all and who likely earned his later reputation with help from Melbourne market connections. Sure he had an up market shop or two in ’48 as did his little sister Angela (Mdm. Josephine) with her exclusive salons in the 50s and, he gets to be the Sapol fashion design go to guru; shades of Leane’s like acceptance in the Hindley St. butcher’s confident ID on the Keanic tie…Yeah like pull the other one sport it yodels like Harry Torrani.
Johnymac1: yep your count of three SM conspiracy punters sounds close to the mark ie., Peteb, Clive A Turner and milongal, all on the seniors list of course. Nick Pelling and I would make five which is not such a bad discussion group these days, just so long as we can keep the conversation flowing and be nice to our detractors.
Scrutineers and head counters like johnnymac1 may have noted that Big Footy’s own always rivetting SM (Tamam Shud) forum saw had it’s most recent comment back on 17th May. That being a self assessment from it’s club legend ZedX @ Gordon Cramer or Anonymous which went through to the keeper; hope it isn’t their Last Post.
Another thought on how Jerry might have lost his pearly whites. From about 1940 Canadian health & wealth entrepeneur Joe Weider introduced his canned high energy protein/nutrient supplement which made a big impact on the international body building scene. Secret to it’s success which may have gone unoticed at the time was a high calorie cum energy overload called succrose, better known as refined cane suger, guaranteed to rot your teeth in a trice and so uncomplaining dentists like Glenelg’s Jack Christopersen never looked back.
Was there a bodybuilding scene in Australia round that time? Keane was not in great shape by the time he reached the end of the road in Glenelg. But he might have been an old showman.
But I guess this is reheating old circus theories from the year dot.
Nothing in his suitcase to suggest he was a professional wrestler .. those lads wore some pretty spacey gear in the ring, plus there would have been a pharmacy in there to deal with muscle strain and bruising.
Senior porter Harold Rolf North (Craig mat.) Lied to the inquest re his having no direct role in receiving the suitcase, instead nominating on leave R. (Ralph) Craig as the receiving cloakroom clerk. He died a mere fortnight after giving his pergored testimony which is what you get when you tell porkies under oath with right hand on the Bible. So if old Harry mistruthed about something so serious, so early in his evidence then it stands to reason he continued with the farce. That being the case, all we have taken for granted about the suitcase, its reception details and contents
Is undoubtedly flawed.
@JS there’s one of my old hobby horses – inquests are unreliable because people ask for help with what to say and witnesses are substituted because “it harms noone, right?”
Insert my old story about warrants and raids with ACBPS and SAPol. Not sure how the SAPol statements went, but of quite a few ACBPS officers, most of their statements were “On X of Month I attended premises at Blah. About 7AM I entered the building and assisted in conducting a search. I found nothing of interest”….all the “finds” were by one officer. That’s either a helluva coincidence, or it isn’t…..(the thinking from the lead investigator was that if people need to go to court it’s easiest if fewer people are required, and you have one person who is used to being cross-examined to minimise the risk of one or more pieces of evidence becoming unreliable).
Easy reader version: In a lot of cases like this, people are told what they need to find, and they find it (not always deliberately circumventing normal methods, call it a confirmation bias). Evidence is presented to be believable, but isn’t necessarily 100% (it reflects what people think is relevant from what actually happened, but may be presented differently to how things were).
I’ve always wanted to find some evidence that the bus and train ticket circumstances are accurate – that the bus ticket DEFINITELY came from the service/trip they said and that the train ticket was DEFINITELY issued that morning….To me, these are the sort of trivialties that accidentally become corrupted in people’s haste to appease their bosses with the facts they ask for….
Jo: can’t speak for @PeterBowes of course but don’t expect he’s likely to take your advice re Mandy ‘Green’ Nolan on erection day up Byron Bay where true blue blokes are like to stick with old Australian ways for the good of the once lucky bloody country’ ie. by keeping their women in the kitchen, nursery and quaint shared double beds where they belong, happy & glorious and out of harms way OK.. Jo, in case you don’t know the political scene up Northern Rivers way, which I’m quite familiar with. The sitting member & minister for Tourism Ben Franklin, now a Nat., just happens to be a Cranbrook School old boy, and guess what, I think you’ll find Pete is too from memory. See what the Pankhurst feminists are up against?
Tamara Bunke is an interesting pseudonym. Another apparently clear-cut case of someone being shot in a river. But years later when they moved the bodies to a mausoleum the parent didn’t seem to want the DNA test to confirm it was her – whereas scientists tested all the other bodies. They also didn’t want to repatriate the body to Germany even though she was never Bolivian. She was Argentinian by birth (supposedly). Her mother went to the Kremlin in her ?80s to ask them to give her a letter to say her daughter wasn’t a KGB agent. But as an East German she would have been Stasi.
I also found a curious doppelganger in an East German library named Gertrud Helke (on wiki) – working in a library after the date of Bunke’s death.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EX8QzyDSRv55a4p9xW53pnCZrr23Z54M/view?usp=sharing
Chez Guevara also wrote a poem about Bunke sending morse code wireless broadcasts.
I was also to locate a taped interview of her mother which I transcribed. Unfortunately the next year the German source was removed from the internet so my copy is possibly the only record of it ever taking place.
But some interesting echos of Carl Webb. Happy family – lots of photos of the Bunke’s who were part of the political elite in East Germany and had freedom to travel through the Berlin Wall.
@ JS – you’re following me again! I do know a little about Northern Rivers politics! I’ve a family connection to old Earle Page & someone a bit more recent… well, you seem to know a lot about PB… I hope the Cranbrook education was worth the money! I’m a comprehensive school girl myself.
I’ll let you get back to the latest season of the Handmaids Tale on Netflix… I’ve booked for Mandy’s comedy show when she comes down here to Melbourne, she’s a friend of a good friend. You know how we harpies operate!
This has nothing to do with the New Somerton Man thread! I’ve got old Charlie pegged as voting for Arthur Calwell, seat of Melbourne…
Jo: nothing more exciting to do than follow trails for copy is my pathetic excuse;
For instance if anyone had followed my possible Lutheran connection they may have come across ‘A response to Mr. Webb’ in the 1 April 1935 edition of SMH on trove of course. It’s background concerns the Lutheran Hermannsberg mission and in particular native entitlements. Whilst I doubt that the ‘Mr Webb’ named be our Carl, one of the original SM main players, oft discussed on CM, gets asked to give his professional critique for the article. Guess who?
….and by extension Geoff Page I’d guess? Apparently grandad PM Earle ‘merry Xmas’ Page, the 29 day blunderer from Grafton, was no misogynist, neither was a later failure in the top job, Tony ‘the pom’ Abbott who was libalously branded as one by Julia ‘bluey’ Gillard a lifelong man hater and another dud PM in her own right. Before ‘Witch Hazel’ spat out that profound accusery word on the floor of the House, no tart or bloke had ever heard of ‘misogyny’ me included. It’s sole purpose being in order that all disenchanted misandrists might take it as a call for a mass ‘cunt stunt’ affirmative action rampage throughout the land. Sad thing is that poor unloved Tony the dyed in the wool family man, had never uttered the derogatory remarks accused of him. He had been especially targeted, not for his portrayal of the swaggering he man image in the public domain, but for his personal growing solidarity with the ‘true blue’ first Inhabitants of the deep north hence the newly emerging Aboriginal & Torres Straights Islander movement’s leaning towards the right, as opposed to traditional pro labor party affiliations dating back to pre war times. Julie’s own boss, the leftist AWU must have looked upon the new order A&TSI turn coats with a deal of trepidation and rightly so.
A few of my old posts from late January 2021 give a fair grounding on John Salomonson, the name of course being a derivation of early SM police suspect Solomonson that led nowhere. My desire be for getting back to the heart of the matter and the facts with it, brought to mind that there was an older brother Henry (555), also active in the London post war crime scene. I’ve put into play some initiatives for running Henry de La Fargue Salomonson to ground to find out what became of him, if anything, post 1948.. One proposal I’m working on now that we have a good easy name name and certain knowledge of it’s police FP filing in UK, perhaps it wouldn’t hurt to re submit a copy of the Somerton beach body’s fingerprint card details to London FPB for favour of a re-appraisal. Who knows, will it mean a new lease on life for Somerton Man or on with the motley?
The Salomonson surname evokes strange stories e.g.
Ex-lawyer of Queen had S&M chamber
AMSTERDAM – Mr. Frits Salomonson (65), the former lawyer of Queen Beatrix and Prince Claus, was once extensively photographed as a ‘victim’ in a sadomasochistic scene, surrounded by underage boys.
This became known at a public hearing of the court in Amsterdam.
Salomonson features in a criminal case against his former neighbors on Keizersgracht, manufacturer Jacob Sietsema (56) and his friend, accountant Pierre Houben (53), as the victim of defamation and insult.
The two suspects had called witnesses for their defense, whose testimony so far only makes his position more unfortunate: because under oath two witnesses have now sworn that they had ten to fifteen color images in their hands, in which they could clearly see the ‘legal advisor to the Royal House’, honorably dismissed in 1996, naked and chained to a chair.
The witness testimonies are from Willem Smitt (60), editor-in-chief of the weekly Prive, and from the now 36-year-old Job te Boekhorst, who until recently worked in gay prostitution.
Te Boekhorst testified that in 1987 he had taken the photos from a sex club owned by ‘the big man behind the underage prostitution, Freddie V.’, who according to him has since been murdered. ‘I wanted to set an example,’ said Te Boekhorst, ‘so that high-placed people would no longer get away with it so easily in the future.’
He offered the photos for publication to Willem Smitt. Smitt recognized Mr. Salomonson because he had not long before filed suit against Prince Claus on behalf of Prive over publications about Prince Willem Alexander with a blonde in the Hilton hotel.
Smitt did not want the photos. He saw too many ‘pitfalls’ ahead. He also warned Job te Boekhorst to be very careful with the material he considered ‘dynamite’. Te Boekhorst: ‘That’s why I burned the photos.’
Sex torture chamber
Sietsema and Houben are on trial because in various interviews and in letters to Amsterdam Mayor Schelto Patijn they spoke less than flatteringly about Mr. Salomonson.
They have repeatedly claimed that Salomonson, who was a member of the Guardianship Council that had to support Willem Alexander’s guardian in the event of the Queen’s unexpected death, had access in his property on Keizersgracht to a ‘sex torture chamber where he received young boys’.
The reason for these statements arose when the suspects took over Salomonson’s part of the canal house, and were fined for withdrawing ‘living space’ from the Amsterdam housing supply during renovations: they had demolished too much. But the gentlemen went into battle with the argument: a sex torture chamber is not living space!
The trial has been suspended indefinitely.
and
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/136655770?searchTerm=%22Salomonson%22
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/82057923?searchTerm=%22Salomonson%22
Peteb: further to your latest attempt to get folks on side with the same tired old Boxall/Moulds/Jessica/SM espionage for Stalin fiasco; No doubt a well timed diversion away from any suggestion that Charles Webb was not the main man on the beach, the one with the striped duds, a TS slip in his fob pocket and yet ‘not a match on him. With some interest I note your critique on “young women” turning to Coke (the real thing) and communism at war’s end in an angry move protesting America’s haste to end hostilities by nuking the Japs and vapourising untold numbers of innocent women and kids in the process. Let me remind you that your long lauded saviours of humanity starved tens of millions of their very citizens without remorse most of them also innocent women & kids, during a twenty year spree of purgitive slaughter in order to be rid of under contributing elements for favour of a new class of ultra productive factory fodder.
milongal: A bit late but, better late than never. The three other names besides our John Salomonson and wife Audrey nee French, ie., Northwood, Robinson and Curtis who we connected through S & McD. with former Nth Brighton beachside address at 33 King St. That we assumed to be three separate flats, were in fact all of the same family (See findagrave A & NZ for Charles Northwood died 1951 Passadena). Why the new arrivals in Sept. ’48 gave that address we may never know although I could try Stephen Curtis’ memory for the Salomonson name if it comes to that.
Peteb: surely you can do better than that Bozo. There were no POWs being admitted to RNSH if that’s what you’re getting at, most of the post war medical treatment and trauma wards in NSW were at 115 hospital for the AIF and 118 for other services. I must say that HMV is way off the mark with his crackpot musings of an overflowing of communist sentiments in Australia and vice verca towards traditional democratic, religious values. Time for him to shape up or ship out.
I did take notice that on the same passenger manifest as for the Salomonson’s 1948 arrival in Adelaide, another pax Catherine Smyth plus her two kiddies, gave the Woomera Rocket Range base address c/o of Staff Sgt. W.R. Smyth (RAF) for her intended place of abode. Whilst I doubt it’s relevance to our SM case someone like Em or Pat might be interested to follow up (two W.R. Smyths nom rolls not related).
John Sanders, let me pound it into your thick head .. what I’m writing is fiction. FICTION.
So rather than waste your time nit-picking my work why not make yourself useful and spend a little more time exercising your intellect on some of the moderator’s more esoteric posts .. But he’s the fellow you dare not criticise, right?
Peteb: ooh, deflection and barely-suppressed anger, that would make a good character in a book.
I don’t suppress anger, Nicholas, I nurture it, develop it, prune it until it flowers into an easily digested fruit, not quite poisonous though we have hope some who swallow it might be overcome with regret.
oooh, indeed.
@JS,
You’re like ChatGPT you throw in some fabrication to keep the humans on their toes
‘DHD’ Smyth RAN not RAF.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/43775636?
searchTerm=%22smyth%22%2C%20%22woomera%22
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71433776?searchTerm=%22smyth%22%2C%20%22woomera%22
But he did tour Woomera.
Though Wiliam Robert Smyth worked for Ian Crouch possibly the guy that went missing in his schooner. Was he onboad?
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=1060376&isAv=N
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/103062126?searchTerm=%22ian%20crouch%22
If your shit is intended to be fiction, then how is it that your subject is based on fact, the names of your characters bare the names of real people, and their lives were lived along historic recorded. So you can’t have it both ways and get away with and I’ll maintain my nit picking to maintain the initiative. By the way it was me what called him Chrome Dome & Nick the Prick which would seem to give lie to your “dare not criticise” claim….
@ Mr Pelling – yes, I’ve been taking notes for some time now! The other characters will be based on the various variants of Steve. I’m not sure what to do with Sanders inspired rambling poet though! Should I bump him off or retain him as a comedic element? I’m thinking of “Last of the Somerton Whine” as my working title, it will be a ripper!
Joanna Trollope: sounds like a scream!
John Sanders: I’m so pleased your sharp edge hasn’t dulled in your middle age. Or indeed in your old age.
Peter: at least you don’t allow your anger to fester and overwhelm you, because that would be a shame.
David Morgan: the manifest stipulates Staff Sgt. W.R. Smyth and Woomera was Airforce, so seems like you’ve bombed out with the names, ranks and dates all round. No wonder you could only manage 2 stars with your Marian Thunestvedt camo. murder thriller. It couldn’t have been Hermann Johr anyhow, he settled in Brazil and anyhow looks like the poor girl may have succumbed to spontanious combustion on the living room floor. Been known to happen so they say.
Nick: On a more mundane note, has the identity of the Somerton Man been confirmed? If I understand it correctly then the analysis of the hair samples lead a prominent researcher to the identification of Carl Webb as the Somerton Man. However what about the results of the autopsy, do they support the hair identification? Obviously I don’t follow this closely, so my question may be a little foolish.
Mark Knowles: on the one hand, we have a very convincing-sounding identification courtesy of Derek Abbott and the hairs embedded in the plaster cast taken from the Somerton Man’s upper torso and head. On the other hand, we’ve had not a pretty peep out of SA Police’s forensic investigation (who really ought to have concluded every test going long before now). So it’s hard to be 100% sure that we’re not still missing something important.
@JS,
I achieved getting a journalist to put an article in the Strasbourg newspapers and getting the story known. There are no stars for facts. It’s not a murder mystery it was a real-life murder of a teenage girl. For some reason the family have allowed it to be forgotten. A bit like the Webb family and Carl.
I also wrote it while studying for a degree so both interfered with each other. But the facts are stored.
The police said a staged murder where she was punched, strangled, stripped and set on fire. I messaged with the original magistrate Alexandre Linden who now has no memory of the case or files, other than her name. Yet he had a key job in his 70s/80s as the Mary Whitehouse of the French internet. Perhaps a token role. Hopefully reading it in the newspaper might help him remember. But i was able to track him down and contact him using a clever method when he was supposed to be a protected individual.
The amazing part was Mariann’s mother Esther was the ideal witness to the 1970 Isdal Woman mystery. She was the only witness taken to the police station to give her detailed evidence.
I also had direct contact with the best friend of Hermann. Hermann was declared deceased from drowning after jumping off the ferry in Oct 1972.
I was also contacted last week by the Culture Museum in Basel about Hermann so there are still things to find out about Hermann.
The one person I am unable to track down was the teenage girl who stayed with Mariann for perhaps 2 weeks in Strasbourg who may have told Mariann’s killer where she was. Perhaps her dad or uncle or the man in the newsagents.
DHD Smyth who visited Woomera appears to be on a destroyer
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/244116756?searchTerm=%22smyth%22%2C%20%22R.A.N.%22
Dacre Smyth getting promoted:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131738799?searchTerm=%22smyth%22%2C%20%22R.A.N.%22
Another aide-de camp 1948
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/141340625?searchTerm=%22smyth%22%2C%20%22R.A.N.%22
David Morgan: happy to have lured some astute punters away from Springvale and back to Somerton whence our journey started out and will hopefully conclude, the maine impetus drawn from the renewed Salomonson initiative. As added incentive for the less adventurous folks to get on board my Somerton bandwagon and to ‘pay closer attention’ to the facts drawn therefrom, I might drop a simple clue or two. First one I’ve dropped already, second being rustic to & fro Glenelg down the beach from now very up scale Somerton with it’s flash cement rendered Spanish style haciendas set along the South Esplinade shorefront opposite X marks the spot.
Peteb @ CH2: c’mon mate, you can at least humour HMV with his Marshall meeting at the Zoo theme. Isn’t such a bad idea and after all, it’s only FICTION.
Mr Sanders – I’d be lyin’ if I didn’t acknowledge that the lion is a rather inspired choice! I’m rather hoping that the back story includes a red meet up set at the Coogee aquarium! Perhaps during the dark days of the Depression… around ANZAC day 1935 perhaps? Many were sickened by the way that the old diggers were treated… Meanwhile an aquatic guest was sickened by something else, something entirely bizarre and unexpected!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shark_Arm_case
According to one source (Feltus?) a patient from Kapara red cross bumped into a man resembling a press photo of SM, at a Glenelg pub on 13th November ’48 (Saturday) and he had reported to police that ‘over a beer’ the fellow, for some reason produced an army pension card bearing the name Solomonson [sic]. Now what’s intriguing is that on that same day according to two press releases, another? man made contact with Glenelg police and told them that he may have been been mistaken for the deceased (not E.C. Johnston) but no further details were forthcoming. Something suspicious about this turn of events which needs some further thought no doubt.
Peteb: Clive’s Marshall plan sketch George and Jestyn at the zoo May ’45 falls into line time wise with two TS related deaths. One being his serving cousin in Rabaul PNG, the other Pakie MacDonald who died under the wheels of a military postal service truck. Written up in your own inimitable style it would make for a real life chain of events that reads like four star dramatic creative fiction.
Johnno, what can I say .. imagination is the beast born of creativity and experience, some have one, others have none. Nevertheless I thank you for your suggestion.
CHV – later after her Lieutenant had pulled out, “Jestyn time” (he lied), she drifted off and dreamed of numbered warships entering the harbour. When she awoke he’d already left for the islands; no time for the usual dawn buster followed by ration coffee to get the day off to a good start. When she realised that her meal ticket had up and off without so much much a ‘by your leave’, the nurse wasn’t too chafed knowing there’d be others lined up to fill the void but, then she had an awful premonition. Not that she might not see him ever again, he’d been a dud fuck anyhow, but a strong feeling she would have cause to remember his name rank and service number for quite awhile.
Good news in from Erwin Wiesenfeld from Genealogieonline (Holland) who has a detailed Salomonson family tree and to whom I reached out for post ’48 news on Henry de la Fargue Salomonson, is no news at all. Even better news is that I don’t either. So all things being equal the fellow may not have survived beyond the time of Somerton Man’s own untimely demise and that’s about as good as gets, news wise.
@ Mr Sanders – gosh! Your work reads like the offerings of the love child of Beatrice Kean Seymour and Henry Miller! Do you have an agent? We keenly await Ch VI!
One thing for sure we know is that Ms Jess Styn loved the arts, she wanted to be in the scene, a wannabe bohemian, never quite got there but at least her son fulfilled her dreams. Is it so unusual that she had known CW through her connection to the arts? i think this narrative fits , if only there as a way of knowing for sure. Alas
Punters: bad news about Peteb’s latest ‘FICTION’ charcter Norman Fredrick Webb is that his NAA file appears to have been pulled but, from what I recall he drove Shedden for just a short period in 1946. As for other related NAA records, Charles Richard Webb, John Russell Keane and Leo Vivian Keane’s files are also missing, all but their respective search header pages which are still up. Only other player I’ve checked on to date be Roy Webb and his records are more or less still intact far as I can see. Only one name comes readily to mind for having arranged that lurk and I find it interesting that I’m the only one who’s picked up on it to date.
@John , can family request the war documents to be made not public? Makes me wonder what needs hiding?
JohnS .. I have learnt through a confidential source that the latest post on tbt has resulted in the deletion of certain NAA files and the same source has suggested I take immediate precautions with regard to my personal safety and security. Nevertheless both my wife and myself are currently undertaking martial arts lessons and are familiarising ourselves, legally, with defensive weapons.
Hmm… @ Johnno who do you think had been pulling and snipping strings at the NAA?!!!
Peteb: My advice be to stay away from Mullim & Pottsville farmer’s markets and leave the Lear jet in the hanger until the skys are deemed safe for private use.
Some pages of the NAA files seem to have been removed e.g. Leo Keane. Perhaps family members have asked for their files to be removed. I’m not sure whether dead people have a right to privacy. I thought the documents had a privacy life-span and then became public.
‘Due to planned system maintenance RecordSearch Digitisation requests will be unavailable from Friday 25 August 2023 7am to 9am AEST. Thank you for your patience.’
Maybe it’s just a maintenance glitch. If not… more conspiracy theories…
The guy AA Dowling people get confused with Carl Webb had some interesting scars, bullet wounds and also tattoos – if the NAA hasn’t taken it down already.
It is unlikely a coroner would have missed the scars and tattoos.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/43794559?searchTerm=%22Alexander%20Arthur%20Dowling%22
He may have had PTSD from WW1 which meant he neglected his children by drinking and then probably getting caught urinating in the street.
Pat: looks like you’ve been fed a line by NAA maybe you were working on a Reo J. timeline and not A/EST after all but be patient, it’s a virtue after all. Nice to have you back anyhow.
Oh gosh! PB! Watch the feelers on the Big Prawn this weekend. Probably best to also avoid the Lismore Car Boot Market despite the great bargins! You could always hide out in one of the Memorial Swimming Pool waterslides if things get really tense!! Do you think Mr Cramer may have had a hand in this?
Hello, would there be a person here that could steer me to a site, url, location or have an idea where I can find how to convert Siret, Siren and Insee digits to/from alpha letters please? Thanks.
Peteb: I’ll vouch for the police suicide handbook thread, if as it seems your new bimbo Jessa (we know her) still be in any doubt. As for the lady’s shit about George Marshall being tied in with the “burgeoning worker’s Party in Singapore”, t’was in fact his brother David but they didn’t start “burgeoning”until 1959 many long years after George/Joseph’s murder at Taylor’s Bay in May in 1945. Just in passing, my own main suspects for the murder (stated) was in the presence of a Methuen 7/1 ROK at the scene; as opposed to the victim’s own publication of favourite suicidal verse “Just you and me” which both David and Samuel would not have condoned.
Clove: not the same at all, that is if your fussy about name spellings and such ie., Norman Fredrick v Norman Frederick, as Jo tried to explain, well sorta though I’m sure you’re up to speed now!
Jump on board Peteb the NAA express be back up and running. Before being rudely shut down I was about to mention Norm Webb’s letter of 7/11/47 in which he is seeking discharge by virtue of his term of temporary duty having elapsed. Seems at that point he may have been seconded to the Department of Defence as Sir Fred’s Shedden’s personal driver and not in the Interim Airforce but a super numerary. He was subsequently discharged from the RAAF 21st November 1947 but we’re not to know for how much longer he drove for the Secretary. Why do you ask two dogs?
Still no NAA result for Webb Norman Frederick WW2 .. is it just me?
Looks like you bombed out on the spellin of Frederick stedda Fredrick mate. Still not with it after all my attempting to explain. MIght as well be talking to a flammin’ wall!
@ JS – be patient with your old pupil Johnno, there’s Freds under the bed all over the place here! No wonder there’s a bit of confusion going on!!
PS – I swear I could hear someone at the Evans Head Market muttering “I’m too sexy for this thread!” into his chai this morning!!
alan,
From Bing Chat:
“The SIRET code (French: Système d’identification du répertoire des établissements), or SIRET number, is an INSEE code which allows the geographic identification of any French establishment or business. This 14-figure numerical identifier is split into two parts: the first is the SIREN code of the legal unit to which the SIRET unit belongs; the second is usually called the NIC (internal ranking number; French: Numéro interne de classement), and is made up of a four-figure number attributed to the establishment and a control figure used to validate the SIRET number as a whole1.
SIRET is not always a simple 14-digit number. In certain geographic areas like Monaco, it can also be a series of alphanumeric characters, for example, MONACOCONFO0011. However, I could not find any information on how to convert Siret, Siren and Insee digits to/from alpha letters. “
Alan,
Bard says this works in BASIC (it could be lying!!!)
DEF convert_siret(siret)
‘ Converts a SIRET code to a string of alphanumeric characters.
‘ Args:
‘ siret: The SIRET code as a string.
‘ Returns:
‘ A string of alphanumeric characters representing the SIRET code.
IF LEN(siret) 14 THEN
PRINT “Invalid SIRET code: “; siret
END
siren = LEFT$(siret, 9)
nic = RIGHT$(siret, 5)
alpha_digits = “ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789”
converted_siren = “”
FOR i = 1 TO LEN(siren)
converted_siren = converted_siren + alpha_digits[VAL(siren[i]) – 1]
NEXT i
converted_nic = “”
FOR i = 1 TO LEN(nic)
converted_nic = converted_nic + alpha_digits[VAL(nic[i]) – 1]
NEXT i
RETURN converted_siren + converted_nic
END DEF
PRINT convert_siret(“31777531700011”)
or Python
def convert_siret(siret):
“””Converts a SIRET code to a string of alphanumeric characters.
Args:
siret: The SIRET code as a string.
Returns:
A string of alphanumeric characters representing the SIRET code.
“””
if len(siret) != 14:
raise ValueError(“Invalid SIRET code: %s” % siret)
siren = siret[:9]
nic = siret[9:]
alpha_digits = “ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789”
converted_siren = “”
for digit in siren:
converted_siren += alpha_digits[int(digit) – 1]
converted_nic = “”
for digit in nic:
converted_nic += alpha_digits[int(digit) – 1]
return “%s%s” % (converted_siren, converted_nic)
if __name__ == “__main__”:
siret = “31777531700011”
print(convert_siret(siret))
or
Javascript
function convertSiret(siret) {
// Converts a SIRET code to a string of alphanumeric characters.
// Args:
// siret: The SIRET code as a string.
// Returns:
// A string of alphanumeric characters representing the SIRET code.
if (siret.length !== 14) {
throw new Error(“Invalid SIRET code: ” + siret);
}
const siren = siret.slice(0, 9);
const nic = siret.slice(9);
const alphaDigits = “ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789”;
const convertedSiren = “”;
for (const digit of siren) {
convertedSiren += alphaDigits[parseInt(digit) – 1];
}
const convertedNic = “”;
for (const digit of nic) {
convertedNic += alphaDigits[parseInt(digit) – 1];
}
return convertedSiren + convertedNic;
}
const siret = “31777531700011”;
console.log(convertSiret(siret));
I’m not alone mate, most of Webb’s files have Frederick altered to Fredrick..
https://quickshare.samsungcloud.com/lx2C4jVVE9ke
Re Norman, he’s listed without the E in all war records but with the E in his death notice. I’ve only been able to find his files when searching just Norman Webb without the middle name.
Hope that helps people searching:)
Peteb: managed to get a few pre dawn swell spotters from up Hastings Point way mildly interested in the SM wipeout of ’48 a few weeks back. Probably that’s Chief (Brian) he still hangs out of a morning with a few old pretenders at the breakfast club and they get down to Evans Head in their old campers every so often where the surf’s always up and the gash is not so demanding.
Sharon: if punters haven’t got Norm’s name game figured out by now, what hope is there for progress towards SM resolution pray tell? …. By the by, the people at NAA have gotten back to me, and promptly too, advising that my request for an unread immigration file on John Salomonson will ready within 90 days. Sure hope that ain’t too late mate!
If the locations of the Somerton Man in Glenelg were looked at by a Geographic Profiler and they were all crime scenes – say a pickpocket. They might look for the centre of gravity of the locations which would be around Robert Street and they might start knocking doors in that street to find the pickpocket.
It would be interesting to determine who lived in/near Robert Street that month.
But it was this type of exercise that was carried out by Stuart Kind for the Yorkshire Ripper and he arrived at two locations and said he lived somewhere between those 2 locations. He was correct. During WW2 Stuart used that knowledge to work out where to bomb.
Near Robert Street is Glenara. But who lived there in 1948. There is very little about it.
I think W. D. Stuart lived there and he had a son William Fowler in the RAAF. I was hoping to find the son on NAA to find the parents.
A very low profile for such a big house.
books:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/207757731?searchTerm=%22W.D.%20Stuart%2C%22
Perhaps he bought poetry books.
If so then he might most certainly have been robbed.
Who was W.D. Stuart?
@em
That is my question. working from the geographic profile pointing to robert street as the centre of gravity of all Carl’s incidents – assuming he went to the chemist, Jo Thomsons;, the bus stop and then the beach. So rather than trawl every property in roberts street I thought I would find a big mysterious property like Glenara nearby which had limited newspaper coverage through all the years it existed. The only name that might fit in 1948 would be W.D, Stuart. But i can’t find anything about him other than ‘books’. I’m not saying he’s Carl.
David Morgan: next one south from Robert St. is Broadway and if that fits the bill for your latest attempt to ID SM’s pickpocket by residential location, then you can’t go past the feller what found him at 5.30am on 1 December 1948 and who moved the body according to his companion Neil Day. If you check with S & MacD. you’ll find Patchings (ex Victorians) living at Nos. 88 and 73a Broadway with another over the way in Brighton Rd. However Horrie was camping in stables at No. 2 down by Sth (& Nth?) Esplinade in ’48 from memory. Check him out on your Trove if you get the chance, feller was newsworthy in his day for racing trivia, drink driving and the like.
David Morgan..seems remiss wouldn’t you agree that not a single one of our all knowing Somerton Man trivial pursuers ever thought to question how is it that of the first four early morning beach goers, all of them locals, only one, Jack Lyons was interviewed by police. It appears they had no real concern for any missing belongings ie., hat, belt, watch, wallet, coins and other accoutrements that one might have expected in such discovery.
@JS
I was just using the locations as test data to see what it would draw on a map and where the centre of gravity was. It was interesting it liked the side road near 7 Robert Street as the Centre of Gravity and then it liked between 24 to 26 Weewanda st. as another anchor point. But as I said it is just for test purposes.
But they both have in common Red Cross rehab homes in 1948 for returnees from WW2. You covered the J. Salomonson plot quite extensively before.
But I came across:
“NOTICE is hereby given that the partnership heretofore
subsisting between Audrey Gertrude Salomonson. Of
12 St. Kilda, and Eleanor Jean Dunner, Of
3 Caroline-street. BOX Hill, carrying on business at Fifth
Floor, 46 Elizabeth-street, Melbourne, under the style or
firm name of Active Typing and Duplicating Service, has
been dissolved as from the 30th day of June. 1965, so far
as concerns the said Eleanor Jean Dunner who retired
from the said firm.
Dated the 26th day Of November, 1965_
9173 “
Sanders, as you well know the name was reported as Solomonson not Salomonson ……… but anyway, you did it again, got me darn tootin’ fascinated again with another character, fair enough, in the ongoing Somerton Man saga ….. popping this up here for any researchers and family tree folk.
https://imgur.com/KIoMTAl
David Morgan: you wouldn’t have bothered unless it piqued your interest and thanks for maintaining the fervor. I can guess how ‘little’ Audrey Salomonson got into duplicating but as for typing, could have learned it in Holloway along with stuffed toys and paste jewellery for which she gets some copy for prizes and a listing on NAA. Can’t find her on PROV though and she’s not there at Melbourne cemetery with criminal husband John who passed in ’64 aged 54. No further news on what happened to brother Henry 555 your end either I gather.
David Morgan
Thanks for the Siret workup. I understand the concept it was devised for in Vichy France, however, I was looking for a more abstract result such as an Adelaide phone number, the ID# of an Israeli Officer or even a SXxxxxx type number and yes, it is likely to be a non-conforming 12 digit or 14 digit (or 10 with 2 checksum digits). I expect it probably will be around 8 digits +/- some with 3 duplicate digits. I was just looking for something that may pop out at me. Onward hey?
…Eleanor Jean called herself June which is not uncommon, as is Jenny and people who have sought Dorothy Jean in vain might keep that in mind. Anyway Audrey’s partner ‘June’ Dunner had a long retirement, passing in Melbourne 2017 aged 92.
Now that nobody’s looking, have a peep at Maria LaForge (no relation) who baited husband Charles’ Xmas cake and medicinal egg nogs with arsenic in 1840 France. Great forensic job to get a murder conviction as laid bare on Wikipedia.
Peteb: only thing Sir Fred. G. Shedden and Norm Fred. Webb had in common was Fred; Lets face it, his eminence was not a personable man even with governmental colleagues of equal standing. So what gives you the idea that he would be there in back of the enclosed Damlier discussing day to day affairs in Canberra with a plebe like Norm; Bearing in mind the Aust. security leak didn’t break til 1948 when Norm was presumably back on the buses. Yeah OK it’s only FICTION I know, but someone needs to break the news to Jo, Shabby, HMV and other punters cause obviously they hain’t been told.
All good @ John, I can’t talk for the others but no harm in using our imaginations to see if all the facts line up. Personally my moneys still on a horse connection, it’s the only thing I find that explains the barley grass, abrasions on his knuckles and fits with the facts of him being a gambler, horses exercised on the beach, bus goes right past Morphettville Race track, drugs used for horse doping, etc. Only thing I can see the teaspoon and glass dish being used for is drug preparation. I think he was evolved in fixing races, maybe planned to give evidence about what he knew and was shut up permanently. Having said that others theories are always good to read and ponder over too.
All good @ John, I can’t talk for the others but no harm in using our imaginations to see if all the facts line up. Personally my moneys still on a horse connection, it’s the only thing I find that explains the barley grass, abrasions on his knuckles and fits with the facts of him being a gambler, horses exercised on the beach, bus goes right past Morphettville Race track, drugs used for horse doping, etc. Only thing I can see the teaspoon and glass dish being used for is drug preparation. I think he was involved in fixing races, maybe planned to give evidence about what he knew and was shut up permanently. Having said that others theories are always good to read and ponder over too.
Poppins: thanks for the imgur DC details much of which I was not familiar with, its such a pity that I couldn’t refer back to all of my earlier posts of the past five years or so which could explain a lot more on aspects re my luck on getting the correct spelling of Solomonson etc., and then you’d be up to speed with the important issue of tracking down brother Henry (Harry) de LaFarge Salomonson bn. 5/5/1905 London GB.
John Sanders .. homework matey, you need to dig deeper. Google Venona and get back to us. Fair Dinkum, some blokes blow so hard it’s a wonder they don’t float.
In March 1948 Percy Sillitoe flew to Australia to inform the then government of a security leak detected within the administration re Venona and soviet spying which had been unknown hitherto. That’s my homework done and dusted mate. Be pleased to hear of anything that predates that with specific reference to any earlier local knowledge. You can blow as hard as you like and I doubt you’ll do better; meantime Norm had bee driving buses since 1947 as I said.
@JS,
June Dunner didn’t live/die that far from the real DJ. I’m waiting for someone who knows or ‘knew all along’ to do the great reveal. I’ll give it a week then write to a journalist.
The police must know this stuff and are letting the children play in the wrong sandbox where the dog left presents.
The point is we have every Dorothy Jean that ever lived and died and none fit the profile.
It means that logically one of them must be her or she’s 100+ years old.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MxMMY9cvG-pSwHXRQHW6WAphYRf_DY7s/view?usp=sharing
Claude AI:
Based on the death notices listed, here are the Dorothy Jeans who potentially could have been born around 1920:
Dorothy Jean COX – Died 19 Nov 1989, no age given. If born in 1920, would have been around 69 years old at death.
Dorothy Jean CULLIMORE – Died 4 Aug 1990, age 78. If born in 1920, this age fits.
Dorothy Jean de CLIFFORD – Died 31 Aug 1990, no age given. Could potentially have been around 70 if born in 1920.
Dorothy Jean GIBSON – Died 15 May 1990, no age provided. No way to estimate birth year.
Dorothy Jean GROUX – Died 20 May 1991, no age given. Could have been in her 70s if 1920s birth.
Dorothy Jean HOLDSWORTH – Died 29 May 1991, no age given. Another possibility if born around 1920.
Dorothy Jean HUNT – Died 18 Sep 1990, no age given. Again could fit a ~1920 birth year.
Dorothy Jean JEFFERY – Died 24 Dec 1991, age 73. Slightly younger than 1920 but close.
Dorothy Jean MORGAN – Died 18 Aug 1990, no age given. 1920s birth possible.
Dorothy Jean PALMER – Died 30 May 1990, no age provided.
Dorothy Jean SULLIVAN – Died 21 Oct 1991, no age given. Potential 1920s birth.
Dorothy Jean TWEEDIE – Died 31 Aug 1991, age 79. Very close to 1920 birth year.
Dorothy Jean WALDREN – Died 31 Oct 1990, no age given. Could have been born around 1920.
So in summary, the Dorothy Jeans with no age provided or an age in the 70s in the 1990s would be the best candidates for having been born around 1920 based on this data.
John Sanders … That’s your research credibility done and dusted if that’s the best you can do.
Peteb: looks like you’ve ducked for cover on the Stillitoe cup uppance and no appologies for histerical fiction gaffs and for all I know the two Fred’s may have ended up mates. Now in your latest CH-7 ‘the train ticket that nobody noticed’ including your good self, you forgot to mention the station ticket officer Douglas Townsend who sold SM two tickets early Tuesday morning. Not much to recall according to his inquest evidence from 21/6/49. Bet you don’t know or care that Doug and Dr. John Bennett went to the same med school and that Doug later worked in London as a orthod, fitting artificial limbs. Not bad for an orphan boy from Petersborough who died only recently aged 94. As an aside the Townsend RAAF records and arrivals are both down including his return from a tour of duty about Vietnam 1967 from memory.
@David M:
Or her death didn’t appear in death notices (or at least aren’t indexed by Ryerson or similar).
Or she didn’t die in Australia.
Or Death notices simply referred to as Dorothy. Or Jean.
Or Death notices used a pet name (Doff, Dot etc).
Or death notices mispelt her name.
Or Death notices included a wrong name (if people are ringing up and say “Dorthy Jean” might the obits people mishear “Dorothy Joan” or “Dorothy Jan” or “Dorothy June” or something else. Or when they write down the name misread it when it subsequently goes to the printers.
I think the take home in us not being able to find her death record points more to possible failings in the searching rather than necessarily that she is one of them (or still alive – which by the way you’d almost expect to be easier to survive because somewhere in the last 5 years someone would have celebrated a 100th – and these sort of things appear in church bulletins, or nursing home newsletters, or even localised newspapers – many of which appear online these days).
Maybe looking through newspapers from around 2020 for “100th birthdays” is an option (I think for the last decade or so newspapers have shifted a lot of their tributes online – although they’re not very search friendly)
Was Sgt Arthur Hicky’s brother?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/258006311?searchTerm=%22arthur%20%20taylor%22%2C%20actor
Their names appear together. Perhaps Arthur Taylor is in the Webb family photo with Hicky.
Claud AI: you didn’t do much better then Pat, ie., Dorothy Jean Hunt, Sullivan, Gibson, Palmer, Waldren, Cullimore & Morgan with DOB’s from 1899 to 1949.
….closest to the all important birth year of 1920 was 1917 with D. J. Waldren. Sorry Claude AI.
@Julian,
Point taken. We can observe it with Hickie, Hickey and Hicky Taylor and there may be errors with Trove ‘image to text’ on top of that.
Our reliance on digital records can also allow governments to keep things secret by amending e.g. Hickey to Mickey and we would never find him in a search.
Perhaps people should check the actual newspaper archives to see whether the death notices for family members really have…Charlie. He was always the last thought for all family members which is a strange consistency.
@JS,
On a good day Claude AI is a genius at analysis. Looking at Ruth Balint’s article on the SM says:
“The inability to conclusively solve the case despite modern investigative methods raises interesting questions about the limitations of historical evidence.”
It also says:
Some potential weaknesses or limitations in the historical account of the Somerton Man case include:
Lack of primary sources from the Somerton Man himself, due to his identity remaining unknown. The author can only speculate about him.
Heavy reliance on secondary summaries of the police investigation, rather than direct access to police records.
Limited discussion of forensic and investigative methods that may now be outdated.
Few interviews with people directly involved in the case, like investigators, to get first-hand perspectives.
Little analysis of media reporting on the case beyond noting initial newspaper articles.
Minimal comparative analysis to similar unsolved cases of the era or region.
The author’s background and positionality are not discussed, which could introduce bias.
Lack of contact with possible living relatives, which modern DNA testing could potentially trace.
Some cultural analysis, like of the Rubaiyat’s popularity, is interesting but not directly connected.
Absence of photographs, maps, or illustrations to depict locations and evidence visually.
Sorry Ruth, Claude AI can be tough on all of us.
Regarding Dorothy date of death… I may be wrong but I understand that her nephew said to Abbott and Fitzpatrick that she died in the late 90s, meaning around the end of the decade and not late 1990. Am I wrong?
Sanders, fear not, as God is my witness I’ll find all your old posts, and I don’t care how long it takes ……. and then I’ll be up to speed with the brother Henry (Harry) de LaFarge Salomonson bn. 5/5/1905 – haven’t found that bit yet. So there’s probably a photo of John Salomonson, be it a mug shot, immigration photo or Army Service pic and then we can see if he does in fact look like Carl, and check his height, if he be tall man, per chance. Clues are in the article re the criminal activity you mentioned. British Archives could hold the answer. Where to look, that is the question.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/82057923?searchTerm=salomonson
@pat,
Familysearch says 1990
but source says
1920
Dorothy Jean Robertson, Birth Registration
August 1, 2022 AngelaH5018
1941
Carl Webb and Dorothy Jean Robertson, Marriage Registration
August 1, 2022 AngelaH5018
1951
Dorothy Jean Webb, Notice in Newspaper Seeking Carl Webb
August 1, 2022 AngelaH5018
So no evidence of 1990.
David Morgan : 18th January 1913 – Murder Case Recalled – National Library – re Madame La Farge.
David Morgan: 1st August represents the horses’ birthday in the antipodes. In numerology it could be written down as 1/8 or 18 which of itself equates to the devils number ‘666’, and by a factor of three in Dorothy’s case.
David Morgan: admittedly no real coincidence there. Then how’s about the date of commission 1st December, when Madame La Farge posted the arsenic laced cakes to her Charles. Perhaps the SM case was meant to commemorate the anniversary of such a well recalled event with a similarly named victim and a like outcome, eg., Guy Fawkes Day!
David Morgan: coupla other things occurred on 1st August ’22 that, far as I know still await clarification. In the first instance our moderator queries your Catherine on a name (in private .. tut tut) associated with Dorothy Webb’s marriage in ’52. Then Pat (not Kate) responds with a reference 19472/1952, and followed moments later with 1008/1951 re a Dorothy Webb having deserted spouse Edward Dunlop. There were very few Edward Dunlops around Melbourne at the time although one in particular from South Yarra ups and marries his sweetheart from pre WW2 on 29th December ’45; this following a six year absence from Australia including POW time under the nips. They lived happily ever after til her passing in 1988 and his in 1993.
Poppins: alas, I fear that some of my Salomonson initiatives from five years back will be difficult to chase up my older posts on the now defunct site ‘anemptyglass’ Fandom. But not to worry there was no mention of Henry, only his young brother and partner in crime John who managed to get Trove press coverage for one of his crimes back in Blighty. I have made application for his immigration file which will probably take the full 90 days to be digitised and who knows what it might reveal about himself and family. If you’re serious on chasing up details of convictions for the lads ie., ‘Two brothers, John and Henry Salomonson were concerned in this case Henry was charged with obtaining £100 by means of a false pretence, and John with aiding and abetting try Court of Summary Jurisdiction 1945 PP 161-192 July/Sept 1945 Vol IX No 3 @ http://doi.org/10.1177/002201834500900301, or https://journals.sagepub.com>pdf ..That tangled webb should get you the prize but bring your Master Card; unfortunately I don’t have one.
Does anybody know if urine samples have been taken and analysed during the postmortem procedure?
Pat: yes they were according to chemist R. J. Cowan’s inquest evidence.
Pat, as JS has stated, a urine sample was taken and analysed. But analysing for drugs or poisons in urine in 1948 was a very crude affair compared with the methods used today. I could explain the reasons for this in depth but this would not get us anywhere. Also, IMHO Cowan does not come across as a competent analyst and I would not rely on the results of the testing that he said in evidence that he had carried out.
And what have they tested it for?
Pat: Cowan said that he had tested for common poisons taken orally which was a general analysis of all pathology tests including urine….unless, as some armchair critics suggest, “he was merely taking the piss”.
@Pat, here’s some info from the Coronial Inquest, testing etc.
Sir Cedric Stanton Hicks, Professor of Physiology and Pharmacology at the University of Adelaide stated:
“One, the heart was contracted, and two, that the lungs and in particular the liver and spleen were engorged, and three, that the wall of the stomach was not engorged but there had been blood extravasated into the cavity of the stomach.
These facts, because they are facts, suggest to me the
action of a poison which caused the heart ultimately not
to relax and fill in the normal way, and that prior to its
stopping in the unfilled condition, there must have been some time during which its filling was getting less and less. If the heart were filling less and less as time went
by, that would mean that more and more blood would be
remaining on the input side of the heart, and that would
explain the engorgement of the viscera found at the
post-mortem.
The fact that there was blood in the gastric contents
suggests to me that there had been some violent
contractions of that organ, or that there had been some
inflammation of the organ.”
John Matthew Dwyer, during his post mortem noted:
• the pupils were smaller.
• heart was contracted
• blood mixed with food in the stomach
• blood in the stomach suggests an irritant poison
• something stopped the blood from being pushed along, I suggested a barbiturate or soluble hypnotic.
Robert James Cowan Deputy Government Analyst:
Received a glass jar containing stomach and contents, one containing liver and muscle, a bottle containing urine and a bottle containing blood.
•Tested for cyanides, alkaloids, barbiturates, carbolic acid. •They would not be absent if taken by mouth . On injection some of those poisons would be destroyed by the liver and even the kidneys.
• I feel quite satisfied that if death were caused by any common poison, my examination would have revealed its nature.
• I think the death is more likely to have been due to natural causes.
@ Sharon Cochrane, thanks a lot!
@Pat,
Dr AI Bing says:
The Somerton Man was an unidentified man whose body was found on 1 December 1948 on the beach at Somerton Park, a suburb of Adelaide, South Australia1. The case is also known after the Persian phrase tamám shud (Persian: تمام شد), meaning “is over” or “is finished”, which was printed on a scrap of paper found months later in the fob pocket of the man’s trousers1. The scrap had been torn from the final page of a copy of Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyám, authored by 12th-century poet Omar Khayyám1. Following a public appeal by police, the book from which the page had been torn was located. On the inside back cover, detectives read through indentations left from previous handwriting: a local telephone number, another unidentified number, and text that resembled a coded message1. The text has not been deciphered or interpreted in a way that satisfies authorities on the case1.
Based on the information you provided, it seems that there were several theories about the cause of death of the Somerton Man. Sir Cedric Stanton Hicks, Professor of Physiology and Pharmacology at the University of Adelaide, suggested that the contracted heart, engorged lungs, liver and spleen, and blood in the gastric contents suggest the action of a poison which caused the heart ultimately not to relax and fill in the normal way. John Matthew Dwyer noted that the pupils were smaller and that there was blood mixed with food in the stomach, suggesting an irritant poison. Robert James Cowan Deputy Government Analyst tested for cyanides, alkaloids, barbiturates, carbolic acid and stated that he felt quite satisfied that if death were caused by any common poison, his examination would have revealed its nature. He also stated that he thinks the death is more likely to have been due to natural causes.
It is important to note that these are just theories and opinions from experts involved in the investigation. The actual cause of death remains unknown.
But one article is interesting on shellfish poisoning:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131722755?searchTerm=%22shellfish%20poisoning%22
What happened to Mrs Bogle…
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131732137?searchTerm=%22mrs%20bogle%22
There is another story of 3 children of the Bogles who die in a fire and the surviving daughter was presumably fostered out as the mother must have done something wrong. They seem to reunite 35 years later.
Perhaps the moral of the story is if you are having an affair don’t let your wife prepare your shellfish.
Sharon: yes thanks; I didn’t realise that Pat was not familiar with Derek Abbott’s useful Tamam Shud ’49 Inquest documents in their entirety as a ready reference for genuine Somerton Man researchers.
David Morgan: you’re not to know of course but the shallow aquatic weed beds just off Somerton foreshore in SM’s day (and still @ Utube) were host to all sorts of marine life l8kes of pippies, manna crabs and a variety of fish including schools of deadly poison toadies (Fuguto). It eems that many new Australians of that period either didn’t take advice of the locals (or did), and some who caught and ate them succumed within hours; What’s more, nobody twigged because tetrodotoxin was not then on the list of poisons dealt with analytically in pathology journals circa. 1948. One good thing about dieing from fugu invenomation is that it could be a peacful passing without pain or convulsions (not always), typical symptoms being drowsiness and confusion followed by asystolic heart failure and sudden death. I recall that not so long ago I submitted an on line thesis encompassing all facets of the above, along with test case scenarios both real and invented; even one for our Somerton Man. From memory only Milongal offered critique which was out of respect I guess. Such is life!
The Bogle/ Chandler mystery is an interesting read, they think now it may have been hydrogen sulphide coming up from the river that killed them while the had sneaked off for a sexual encounter on the river bank! I think their case had spy theories too as they couldn’t find a cause of death. Both were married to other people and they investigated her husband at the time.
@ Sharon – I think Peter Butt’s 2006 documentary on the Bogle-Chandler case is currently available on ABC i-view. It’s really good & features an interview with Dr Chandler.
@ Byron Deveson
Sorry, I’ve missed your post!
I’ve asked about the urine sample and testing because I’ve read on an old article called “Poisoning in Forensic Medicine and Toxicological Analysis Methods” that:
‘In toxicosis cases, where a several days of hospital treatment is followed, it is possible that no poisonous material could be recovered during a systemical toxicologic analysis. Because during the treatment period, poison may be discarded from the body.’
https://dergipark.org.tr/en/download/article-file/140295
Now that we know that Carl Webb may have lived in Cottesloe for some time, perhaps it’s time to look into hospital admissions in and around Perth?
@All
And sorry if this is a stupid question, but the search engine on CM apparently only works for titles, so it’s hard to search old content.
Was Jessie, Jessica, Jo, Jestyn, etc also known as Jean at some point? If this is her brother’s wedding notice, they call her Jean Harkness.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/75042999?searchTerm=%22thomas%20lawson%20harkness%22
Pat: looks like you missed my post too. You asked a direct question on the urine “And what have they tested for?”. I gave you an appropriate answer straight from the horse’s mouth (Cowan), short and straight to the point without glossy extras, though apparently not your cup of yerba mate mate. Just can’t please some folks!
Pat: I use Google to search Cipher Mysteries, i.e. by including site:ciphermysteries.com as part of the search query.
Pat: Jean Moir Carr nee Harkness was one of Jessica’s younger sisters born 1923 Newcastle, NSW according to Geni. and died 2009. She was a keen sportsperson and known throughout her life as ‘Jenny the jumper’ to her friends in Adelelaide where she had settled by circa. 1942-45.
@ Nick, thanks.
@ JS, don’t bother replying.
Sharon Cockrane: the swamp gas theory is hardly ground breaking news by any stretch, as a possible cause of death for one or both victims on the banks of the Lane Cove River tragedy on 1/1/1963. In fact Hydrogen Sulphide was considered from the very outset of investigations due to officers on the dive discovery team complaining of rotten egg gas (H2S) stench and one needing resuscitation at the scene.
Pat: sorry about that. Our respective posts crossed paths and so, if it’s ok I’ll retract the information apropos your “stupid question” and your equally ridiculous querie on Jean Harkness being one with (sister) Jessica that is almost beyond belief even by your standards.
Pat,
toxicological testing is still a very complicated and difficult space, and in 1948 in Adelaide only the simplest and most obvious cases of toxicity could be investigated adequately.
From memory the following is a list is of some of the issues that bedeviled the investigation of the SM toxicology samples.
Cowan was on holidays at the time and it appears that the analyses were performed by junior staff.
There were problems with the storage of the samples. The laboratory had problems with it’s refrigerators and I suspect the samples were disposed of after cursory testing before it became clear there was a need for a more detailed investigation. The weather was warm and the staff would have been under pressure to dispose of the autopsy samples as quickly as possible.
There seems to have been a lack of even the basic analytical equipment required to perform even the simple analyses that were possible in 1948. From memory the laboratory did not even possess a UV-visible spectrophotometer.
In addition toxicological testing was severely limited by a lack of methods that could find substances that were not suspected. I could go into a lot more detail but this would not get us anywhere. The matters described above were dealt with in more detail in the past but IMHO the bottom line is that the toxicological testing, such as it was, was so limited in so many ways that it can not be concluded that a poison of some sort was not the cause of SM’s death.
I still believe that SM (= Carl?) suffered from a connective tissue disorder (CTD) and that this disorder is relevant to both the cause of SM’s death and to Carl’s health and mental condition. CTD can cause some of the anomalies that have been previously described with respect to SM/Carl. And CTD can change the bioavailabily of potential toxic materials and can lead to an accumulation of toxic materials. Without going into detail CTD can make an individual susceptible to toxicity from otherwise safe levels of some common medicines.
Further, recent research has revealed that 70% of people with CTD suffer from personality disorder, which could explain Carl’s apparent social and mental problems.
Connective tissue is the stuff that holds everything in the body in it’s right place and constitutes about 35% of total body weight. It is now thought that CTD leads to differences in how the neuronal system is laid down and probably how the brain is interconnected to the organs. In brief CTD patients are “mutants” of a sort, even “aliens”. It is almost as if Salvador Dali had a hand in putting CTD people together.
PS I was enrolled in a toxicological PhD course many years ago but inter university feuding plus a government that decided that recruiting toxicologists from overseas was a safer option (in the same way as it recruited politically safe people in other fields), plus my realization that if I persisted I would find myself in a job that I would hate, lead me to abandon this field. I was an Official Analyst of pharmaceutical products with TGAL and then a chemical evaluator of pharmaceutical products with TGA. Under the system that was in place thirty years ago my evaluations were used by many countries including Canada, Britain and other EU countries and many more to evaluate (with other input of course: clinical, pharmacological etc.) the safety and efficacy etc. of pharmaceutical products.
Byron Devesen: I seem to recall Cowan, in his Sworn testimony before Coroner Cleland in June ’49, that he personally received from officer Sutherland samples from Dr. Dwyer’s post mortem on 2 December ’48 and that he personally carried out tests for common poisons with negative results, as reported in press releases the following day “from memory”. Doesn’t seem to blend in with your own version of events including him being on holidays that you’ve that you’ve aired elsewhere. This along with unfounded accusations of incompetence of a highly regarded and very experienced analytical chemist; after which have the nerve to let us in on your own expert (sadly unqualified) working knowledge of pharmacology and of Gray’s Anatomy, neither of which you have shown proof thereof.
I couldn’t fund the RA Webb page so I have copied it here. Obviously, a serious offense in 1912 to sell underweight loaves of bread.
Vol. XVIII. August 20. 1912 ‘•THE ARGUS ” LAW REPORTS
d—Inspector—Weighing loaves—Power
of entry—Customer’s premises—“ Bakers and Millers
Act 1893” (No. 1332), secs. 5, 6.
An inspector under the “ Bakers and Millers Act 1893 ”
(No. 1332) stopped a baker’s cart and weighed five loaves
taken from the cart and one loaf which had just been
delivered from the cart to a customer, and which the inspector obtained upon the customer’s premises. The
weighing disclosed a deficiency in weight. In a prosecution under section 6 of the Act.—
Held, that as the inspector had no statutory power to
enter the customer’s premises and take bread for testing,
the statutory minimum of six loaves had not been weighed,
in compliance with the Statute, and therefore no offence
had been established.
ORDER TO REVIEW.
Reginald Blomfield Brown, an inspector under the
“ Bakers and Millers Act 1893,” laid an information
against Richard August Webb, alleging that he, the
informant, searched the defendant’s baker’s cart,
and weighed certain bread found in the cart, and in
the house of one Otto Hauff, who had purchased the
same from the defendant, and a deficiency in weight
was found.
The charge was heard at the Court of Petty Sessions at Shepparton, on April 30th. The informant’s
evidence was that on March 20th he stopped the defendant’s cart and took five loaves, amongst others
on the cart, and weighed them, and found them short
in weight. Informant kept possession of the driver’s
scales to test them. The driver of the cart then
drove away. In order to obtain the weight as to
six loaves in accordance with the Act, the informant
went to the house of one Hauff, and obtained from
an inmate a loaf which had been just previously delivered by the defendant’s driver. This loaf was also
found to be deficient in weight.
The defendant was convicted, and ordered to pay
a penalty of 2s. Gd. per ounce on a deficiency of fortytwo ounces—in all £5 5s., with costs £4 17s.
The defendant obtained an order nisi to review, on
the grounds that no offence was disclosed, that the
informant weighed only five loaves found in the cart,
and that there was no evidence on which the Justices
could properly act as to the deficiency in weight.
The order nisi was referred by Madden, C.J., to the
Full Court.
Sch-utt and Beth,ridge for the defendant to move
the order absolute.
McArthur and Cussen for the informant to show
cause.
MADDEN, C.J.—We are of opinion that the meaning of sec. 6 is that it first contemplates the baker
and all his establishment, and then contemplates the
customer to whom bread has been sold and delivered.
As to the first case, the inspector may, without warrant, enter any shop or premises of. any baker and
examine every part of that baker’s premises, and also
stop and examine his cart or other means used for
the transit or delivery of bread, and may weigh and
try “all bread wherever found.” These words, “all
“ bread wherever found,” must certainly be limited
to some extent. Nobody could suppose for an instant
that the Legislature intended that the power should
be exercised in an unlimited sense, which would mean
321
BROWN v. WEBB,
this—that the inspector might anywhere weigh bread
against the will of any private person who owned it.
If anything such as that were intended, no doubt it
would be more clearly expressed—least of all would
those general words be used. Sub-sec. (1) is speaking of the premises of anj7 baker or seller of bread,
and that means a man who either bakes bread, or
one who, having purchased it from a baker, sells it,
or a man who does both. Sub-sec. (1) is self-contained as referring to a baker and his premises and
means of, distribution. We therefore think that the
inspector is not at liberty to take five loaves, as here,
from the baker’s cart, and then go to some private
person and get a loaf which has just been sold and
delivered to him, and use that to make up the six
spoken of in sub-sec. (2)—“Such weight shall be
“taken as to not less than six loaves (if there be
“ that number) of the same denomination or size or
“as to such larger number as may be found con-
“ venient.” He may go to the bake-house, and, if
there are six loaves there, he is bound, for the sake
of average and fairness, to weigh them, and if he
sees reasons which suggest that it would be desirable
to weigh a greater number of loaves, he may weigh
as many as he thinks convenient; but he must weigh
six. Sub-sec. (3) is—“Where bread has been sold or
“ delivered to any customer such customer may weigh
“ and try the same.” Under the old Statute, secs. 13
and 14, a right is given to the purchaser to whom
bread has been sold in the shop, to have it weighed
by the man from whom he purchased, and if it be
not up to weight he has his remedy; and if bread is
delivered away from the shop he also has a remedy
in the same way by prosecution. We think the broad
purpose of the Act is to keep those two positions
asunder. No right is given to the inspector to enter
the premises of the customer who has bought bread
and then proceed to weigh the bread whether he
wishes or not. We think the words in sec. 5 (1) and
(2) referred to by Mr. McArthur to eke out such
an authority, do not give the right to the inspector
to enter the premises of a private customer who has
bought bread and then weigh the bread.
Mr. McArthur relied upon these words—“ The coun-
“ cil of any municipality may appoint persons to be
“ inspectors whose duty shall be to insure that the
“ provisions of the ‘ Bakers and Millers Act 1890 ’ and
“ of this Act are carried out and to prosecute per-
“ sons for offending against any of such provisions
“ and such council may at any time remove any
“ inspector so appointed: Provided that such appoint-
“ ments shall not involve any salary allowance or
“ other additional expenditure.” “ (2) Every person
“ so appointed to be an inspector shall have and may
“ exercise all or any of the powers and authorities
“ conferred on any officer of the Board of Public
“ Health or of a municipal council by the ‘ Bakers and
“ Millers Act 1890,’ and may also without any war-
“ rant exercise all or any of the powers and authorities
322 “THE ARGUS ” LAW REPORTS. Vol. XVIII. August 20, 1912
MORTON v. SMITH.
“ conferred by sec. 17 of the said Act on any Justice
“ or constable.” We think the duty spoken of is a
mere recitation of the general duty of the inspector,
and does not mean that, no matter now much the private person desires to exclude him, it shall be his
duty to enter. If it is said he is to have all of the
powers conferred by sec. 17 on any Justice or constable, that section only gives Inin authority to enter
upon the premises of a baker of bread. The whole
hangs together, and the two features are kept in
view—the inspector may enter the premises of a
baker, the purchaser is to take care of himself.
The order nisi will be made absolute, with costs.
Conviction set aside, with £4 17s. costs.
. Order absolute.
[Solicitors—For informant, Wilmoth and Son for
Sutherland and Macfarlane; for defendant, A. Grant
and Son for Grant and Tuthill.] S. K. II.
Before Madden, C.J. June 26, J
LEASES..—TRANSFERS REGISTERED AT THE OFFICE OF TITLES
In 1915 Eliza Webb started to pay £30 for 21 acres of ground in Shepparton. She had paid £1 and 1s. Did they keep the land?
The land was transferred from N.Boyd. Probably this guy.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/24003531?searchTerm=%22n.boyd%22#
You have to wonder why Boyd was dealing with Eliza not Richard.
David Morgan: possibly a combination of Richard having been a convicted felon in the same rotten burrough, or else that until quite recently, August 1914, he’d been a foreign national without rights to purchase acreage of that size. Nothing to do with his also being deemed a beligerant of course. With regard to ‘jerried’ loafs for which the case against him was overturned on appeal, I think that our sufficiently knowledgeable moderator gave a reasonable account of the case in brief quite a while back.
@JS,
Oh yes, I forgot he only naturalized in 1914 ‘just in time’ to avoid getting put into a camp. Eliza was the true Brit.
Yes, I knew it was somewhere on the site about the underweight bread.
I am also beginning to wonder about the NAA site not having everyone who had a legal case or a military (national service) career. I have been searching for one person who I know had both but there is no record on NAA.
It tells me that Carl Webb could end up on NAA they just haven’t got to his records buried in some dusty basement – the alternative is their records were selectively removed.
…turns out there were just under a million Eliza Webbs living in and around the Shepparton district in 1915 and I dare say about the same number of N. Boyds. So the odds of Richard Webb’s poor wife Liz being the land purchaser would be aalmost a million to one. Same odds go for your N. C. Boyd, president re-elected of Camperdown mechanics lodge in 1952 and your first aforesaid N. Boyd from distant Shepparton circa. 1915 being one and the same.
Newspaper articles re the bread case and the jail offence, seems he had stolen over a week before he got caught.
https://quickshare.samsungcloud.com/q6Lso73SwJcK
https://quickshare.samsungcloud.com/glmsSUfpW8Wt
How does a bakery worker have 200 pounds to invest in 1917?
Same Russell Webb? 1933
https://quickshare.samsungcloud.com/72GBbV6aKOcO
I just thought if they owned 21 acres of ground in Shepparton in 1929 it might be a place for a family photo. It might be where the RA Webb bread wagon photo was taken.
David Martin: We can at last agree that the baker’s picnic pic of Hickey Taylor & friends was likely taken at Shepparton before, or after Amy’s demise in ’29 and now we might put her sad passing to rest. Now comes along our new resident FB trend setter, on board to ensure that the light five loaves remain fresh in our over taxed information cart; Along with her ‘sick share’ news of other heinous offences attributed to ‘Poor Richard’ albeit just a tad less fresh than when initially reported by our webb meister when the new (sans) SM case first broke.
David Morgan: I think the percentage for recognition with NAA service records stands at roughly 80 percent which covers volunteers and others for the three services, though some missed the list for some sound reason. Good soldiers like me uncle Charlie from W.A. & me dad from nowhere signed up for the Darwin Mobile Force in 1939, served together in three theaters and got to come out of it more or less intact after the war in ’45. I managed to find them a clean spot on Nominal Rolls a couple of years back but they weren’t around to celebrate and I guess we’ll have to wait for the NAA party.
David Morgan: while you’re into service records, perhaps the Salomonson brothers John and Henry might be a chance though pretty rough I’d reckon. We know from the Singleton Argus of ’44 that John had served with the Royal Hamshire Regiment albeit, without honour so it’s possible that his older brother was with him going by their criminal history links durng the war. The regimental museum says that they don’t keep the personal records of all 50,0000 soldiers that served in the unit but, suggest that they might be held elswhere? which aint much help.
@JS,
I was contacted by NAA and for the record I wanted they said they would transfer it temporarily to them so I could access it. Not SM related but they are responsive.
“Post WW2 Army service records are still in the custody of the Defence Archives Centre (DAC). ”
In a way modern records are much harder to access if people ‘may’ be alive. Even Geni registered participants seem to think you are are trying to trick them talking about people who may be alive.
@Julian She may have married Michael Peter Darcy as Dorothy Jean House having two children later in her child-bearing years.
I was in contact with an LDS person on familysearch and they seem to be able to search across Australian electoral registers. How are they doing that?
He was able to do it in minutes. He located a person in 3 different parts of Australia. Why doesn’t our glorious leader have these IT superpowers?
Surely he could join the LDS for the greater good?
Curio: if our Dorothy had married M. P. D’Arcy in 1964, as posted a year or so back, she would have been a bit over the child bearing age at 44 plus. Unless of course she had had a pair back in the fifties with W. H. N. House, though I doubt she had kids at all. Doesn’t seem the mothering type.
Someone might find this interesting. I keep getting sent this.
https://www.academia.edu/10066660/Italian_Civil_Alien_Corps_in_South_Australia_the_forgotten_enemy_aliens?email_work_card=title
It’s been quite a while since I posted but I have checked in every now and then to see if anyone has come up with any new information on Dorothy. Like many other people I have continued to search online for some sort of clue. On several visits to SA I have been to the State Library of SA to have a look through electoral rolls for the 1950’s and the local newspaper, The Kadina and Wallaroo Times on microfilm beyond 1954. I also had a close look at a Bute history book which while it had a couple of references to Geoff Lockyer, there was no mention or photo of Dorothy. I also managed to track down and talk to the daughter of Geoff’s employers at Bute.
I posted today on my “South Australian Tragedies” Facebook page to share some of Dorothy’s story – here is some of that post that details my recent research. There are also some images, one of which is of Geoff’s house built in 1953 and where he and Dorothy would have lived together until about April 1955 when he started divorce proceedings. I visited Bute early this year for the photo. I have been told the local history group have not been able to find any detail about Dorothy in the records they keep.
“We next find a record of Dorothy giving birth to a stillborn male child on 13.12.1951 at Calvary Hospital in Adelaide with a burial at the West Terrace Cemetery on 17.12.1951. The names listed on the invoice from the funeral company are Geoffrey Arthur Lockyer and Dorothy Jean “Robertson” 31 years, of Burra Street, Port Wakefield.
From this we can assume they must have been a couple by at least early 1951. We don’t know how or where they met. Their divorce confirmation of 3.11.1955 states they were married at the Methodist Parsonage at Kadina on 22.12.1952 and that there were no living children under the age of 18.
Interestingly, the divorce papers state that it was Geoff who instigated proceedings due to “habitual cruelty for one year and upwards”. Dorothy did not file a defence so we don’t know what constituted “habitual cruelty” in this case or whether she would have denied the allegations.
Proceedings for divorce commenced in April 1955. It was also in April 1955 there is a record of Dorothy being in the Wallaroo Hospital from the 17th to the 22nd for an appendectomy, age 35 of Bute, Church of England.
At this point she seems to have been lost to history. Information obtained by Derek Abbott from Dorothy’s sister Phyllis’ children suggests that Dorothy died in N.S.W. in the 1990’s. Apparently Phyllis sent some money to help pay for her funeral which suggests Dorothy died without money and without any close family to arrange and pay for a funeral. This might mean she is buried somewhere without a headstone, or was cremated, making it even more difficult to find her final resting place. Death records in N.S.W. are unavailable from 1992 onwards.
Apart from Dorothy’s admission to Wallaroo hospital coinciding with the commencement of divorce proceedings I have found no other record of her three or four years spent in Bute. There is no mention of her in the Electoral Rolls for Bute or Port Wakefield during the 1950’s, nor of Geoffrey Lockyer, even though he lived in Bute until about 1963. I even checked all Electoral Rolls in South Australia for 1953 to 1958 without success. I have been advised by a friend whose parents still live in Bute that no one has been able to find any other records of Dorothy. One might presume that she did not get too involved in local affairs or organisations and might have been a “stay at home” housewife.
There are some mentions of her husband Geoff to be found. He seems to have arrived in the Bute area in about 1951, originally living at Port Wakefield before building a house in Bute in 1953.
He purchased a block of land at the corner of Adelaide Road and Everard Street in January 1953. The Kadina and Wallaroo Times of 11 June 1953 reports “Geoff Lockyer’s new house and surroundings are taking shape in south Bute”.
He originally worked for the Hydraulic Equipment Co Ltd of Bute as an engineer. He is mentioned several times in the local history book, From Stumps to Stubble, a history of the District of Bute. There is no mention of Dorothy and she was not listed as a co-owner of his house property in Bute.
By around 1957, Geoff married a Mary Humphrey of Adelaide. They were to move to Perth in about 1963. I’m told he ran a successful road-making business there. He died in Perth in 1976. His wife, Mary, died in 2010. They had no children.
I was eventually able to speak to the daughter of the original owners of the Hydraulic Equipment Co of Bute who employed Geoff for a number of years. She stated her parents sold the business to him about 1957. I had hoped she might have some photos of the business and perhaps some of the staff. However, I was informed that Geoff wasn’t well liked by her parents and so my hopes of photos of social events that might have included Geoff and his wife/wives were dashed.
It was interesting when I first mentioned Geoff’s name she knew exactly who I was talking about. She had heard about him during conversations in the years afterwards. She was only 8 when they left Bute in 1957 so she had no personal recollection of Geoff. She very kindly contacted about 6 people she knew from Bute and they also had the same feelings about Geoff and they weren’t positive. When asked if they knew anything about his wife (Dorothy), one said “that would be Blondie”. A photo I have of his 3rd wife Mary shows her to have dark hair. It would be interesting if we ever find a photo of Dorothy to see if she has fair hair. Other than that, no one could remember Dorothy.
Searches by myself and others have not been able to conclusively find Dorothy. Did she remarry yet again? There appears to be no marriage record in N.S.W. even though records are available up until 1972. If she didn’t remarry, did she go by the name of Lockyer or Robertson? Or if she found a new partner, did she adopt his surname without getting married. So far, no Dorothy Robertson or Lockyer found seems to be her.
Trying to find anyone from Bute who could remember Geoff and Dorothy has proven difficult apart from the previously mentioned information. So many people have moved away and many would now be deceased. I’m sure Geoff would have been remembered seeing he was living and working in Bute for over 10 years and that during his time there he married and then divorced Dorothy and then remarried again. In fact, his last marriage to Mary was his third. He was divorced for adultery back in Perth in the mid 1940’s. There is an interesting story that can be found on TROVE detailing this divorce. One headline reads “Brick Broke-Up the Barmaid’s Romance”.
The search for Dorothy goes on.”
It’s not much but there was a chance that the records in SA might have been helpful, but not this time. You don’t know until you try.
There are still leads to follow, for example there is a Dorothy Lockyer listed in the electoral rolls in the early 1960’s as living in King’s Cross. Trying to rule her in or out along with several other candidates is very difficult.
Good luck to any else who is still researching this lady!
Ahhh…Jo and John Sanders…Here you are!
I’m not sure if this is remotely relevant or maybe just a hoax, but this article just popped up on the Daily Mail website…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12528299/Somerton-Man-Twist-Australias-mysterious-cold-cases-case-bizarre-birthday-card-emerges.html
So who’s Carl Josef Halban and has his name cropped up before.
(I’ve just asked the same question on Pete’s blog)
Guzz Rating: sure has mate. Gordon Cramer of TS/BS on 25th November 2022 using PeteDavo’s (Peter Davidson) shared ‘Redacted’ ndp on the Big Footy TS blog, nominated Carl Josef Halban per @Sophie Halsman and SBS nework as a means to counter Prof. Derek Abbott’s Webb as SM suspect claims. Hence introduction of alleged clandestine commie Austrian Jews (ex New York) likes of Carl Halban, Tibor Kaldor, Helmuth Hendon and Hugh Nuffield plus Harry Gold’s NY based controller Pavel Fedosimov. Gotta give it to GC, bastard just keeps leading with his chin and don’t seem to know we’re on to his crap…well most of us. “Good on you Gordon”
….As for the NAA photos of big gills Carl Halibut; they don’t compare favourably with others familiar to SM and Carl Webb punters of any calibre, neither the 5′ 7″ height description on file. As for the neat file fingerprints, they don’t seem to gel with the barely legible 1948 police file copy, so I’ll not comment further unless pressed. The informant ex lawyer Sophie Holsman is Jewish and hails from Whyalla S.A. where her father Ted was once a BHP safety officer and mother Renee a Post Mistress. I think dad would have been familiar with high Strontium 90 levels and where to find them, hence Sophie’s claims re same allegedly found by Abbott on Somerton Man.
NB: the 5′ 7″ description was on the ’39 arrival records, as opposed to 5′ 11″ for that recorded in immigration re entry applications filed on Carl’s behalf which may not be correct. Sorry if that factor upsets Gordon’s failed false flag scheme, can’t be helped as we deal only in facts over this way GC..well most of us do anyways.
@RichardD I have been approached by a relative of G A Lockyer who is checking with family in Perth. I advised them to contact Prof. Abbott.
As for “Blondie”, see the photo from the early 1960s of the blond Scottish dancer claiming to be “Wendy Virtue” while wearing a Robertson woman’s kilt standing in front of Mrs. Dorothy Robertson a model from Perth. Another person in the photo could be Phyllis Crick her sister looking very much like the granddaughter’s photo on the profile on the family GeniWeb pages
Something a little bit interesting to report! I still think that the “code” in the Rubaiyat is an aide memoir for someone’s theatrical lines, (probably Phil Jay of the Kiwi Revue or Hickey Taylor) with the “x” being conventional theatre short hand for “cross stage”. Current life events mean that I can’t follow this up at the moment, although I have a rough short list of scripts I’d love to peruse! I had a quick look at the National Library of Australia listing for JCW play scripts and guess what? It looks like someone is looking through them!! All but the first listing are currently “in use”!!
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2624931
Thanks for that reply concerning Carl Josef Halban, John S… As usual, it appears I’m behind the times with all this!
@John S re yours pointing pout the differences in the Halibut photo vs SM. I agree he looks nothing the same, but the elephant in the room is that the guy is balding. Pretty sure he couldn’t grow back his hair and become SM. According to Geni he also died in 1953 in Austria.
Julian: a devious attention seeking distraction, typical of a person of diminished responsibility, without doubt.
@ Richard D – very interesting sleuthing!
Jo: sure is. Nothing like a bit of deja vu to help kick the once relevant Dorothy can an inch or two further along the road to oblivion is there?
Guzz Rating: I’ve got got a feeling that the Holsman’s of Whyalla Ted & Renee are more likely to be Sophie’s grand parents or rels and not her mum & dad due to a greater age disparity than originally perceived. Not that it matters a hoot in hell re her Hapban Somerton Man ID.
Can I also ask at this point if anyone on these searches has in fact confirmed the second telephone number belonged to a bank? Or did we believe what we were told by SAPOL?
Or did it belong to the family of a recently deceased registered Bookmaker of the Jewish persuasion who lived at 128 Anzac Highway, Helmsdale (now Glenelg)?
On 9/4/20 and 3/4/22 GS of BS/TS stated that he had found the second phone number in miniscile under a smudge atop the code page. C 7407 was already familiar to me from my own research into SM matters involving the AG’s dept. whose office was reached through the State Bank of S.A.’s main city switchboard. The thread is still there and GC’s related comments are quite telling of his feelings towards your Peteb and myself at that time and still…sadly.
Alan H…Got us a Stanley & Kathleen Cowin at St. Judes cemetery Nth. Brighton ’69 & ’59, presumably gentile and only a hop from Helmsdale but maybe not your Jewish bookie. Seems a fellow can’t get a winner up lately.
So @John I assume people did the trove thing with C7407?
12 May 1948:
Antique silver chain, lost south park lands hockey field. Please Ph. C7407
7 Apr 1949:
PROMISE of s.c. flat wanted for couple marrying September, pref. Glenelg. Brighton. C7407 or F5213
25 Mar 1950
COMMONWEALTH EXECUTIVE desires lease flat or house, two bedrooms, good loc., furn. or unfurn. Would consider exchange mod. home. Melbourne. Particulars Box 938H. G.P,O. Tel. C7407
Some observations
– Lost jewelery like the Tudor watch – is GC onto somethikng with his ideas of clandestine communication in plain site, or does he read too much Sherlock Holmes
– Couple (planning on) marrying September 1949. When did Jestyn and Prosper tie the knot?
– Melbourne connection to the house the exec is looking for
– F5213 has some mentions in the 1940s East of Adelaide
a) Lost tennis racket in 1943 (26Mar)
b) Possible reference selling business in Rose Park (the agent has multiple listings most of them are definitely F5218, but one looks like it might be F5213 – I’m guessing this is just the age of the paper and that isn’t the number, but someone with better eyes than me can decide) – 26May1947
Outside that decade, F5213 also has:
– Lots lady’s fawn handbag Greenhill Rd or Stuart Rd – 1935
– (very smudged, so not sure how accurate this interpretation) – LADY pensioner wanted for Pt. Noarlunga. 3 adults. easy place. 36 Kensignton Road Norwood P5213 (might be P5313) – 1954. S&M has Brook AR butcher here – although according to SM that side of the road is Rose PArk, not Norwood). #35 is in Norwood and has Dawson W Grocer. Neither seem likely candidates for a Govetnment Executive
…looks like Stan & Kathy Cowin lived at the given Anzac Rd. address in SM’s day, along with son John (1914/89, his wife Topsy and their son John Jr but, nothing has come to light thus far regarding their involvement in the sport of kings nor their telephone number.
AH..must say your Cowins are a strange lot ie., not very reproductive, non social, not into patriotic or charitable causes, nor honest labour. For all that the Cowins seem to have always been on their best behaviour since the wild colonial days. Only need for a phone would be to do with race days at Cheltenham if off course bookmaking was their calling.
The first perfomance of Stand Up and Sing in Adelaide at the Tivoli presented by Jack Burgess was for the Somerton Children’s Home.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/48758909?searchTerm=%22barbour%22%2C%20somerton
I wonder whether other first nights in 1948 were for the Somerton Children’s Home.
I didn’t understand the 5 AD reference.
Was this Carl Webb at Leo Keane’s wedding?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vaAVClMOwwu96HOxiI1gmGg9OJfOGzFu/view?usp=sharing
Note: AI has worked with a v. poor quality image but it is an excellent guess in my opinion.
DM: 5 AD was and apparently still is Adelaide’s top AM format commercial radio station for nerds like us.
@David: 5AD *WAS* an Adelaide Radio Station. According to Wikipedia it was an AM radio station with frequency 1323 – These days used by 5DN. Wikipedia seems to suggest that DM station MixFM (102.3) is basically an evloution of 5AD (which was owned by the Advertiser).
David Martin: could be Leo’s nephew Norm Webb of the grassy verge..If not it might be Rodin’s Thinker or the earlier one from Kardista (too close to call). While we’re with Leo, any news from his son john Robert who arrived just prior to his parent’s wedding and who allegedly misidentified his dad to Stuey in the family photo at Werribee.
@JS,
I often test ‘average images’ of two faces. a British criminologist famous for facial ID says the average image of the same person looks more like the person.
For the old-world programmers/electronic engineers out there an average image is ‘somewhat’ like XOR (exclusive OR) in programming – if both are black dots they show as a black dot. For example, the glasses on the AI disappear because they don’t appear on the clay mask.
The part that interested me was the way the average picked out the hard frown line from the AI image and the clay death mask. Military body identifiers look for such things to identify a person.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19o4BdY6dptzZYJIOOX4lcQGUe54JJR_P/view?usp=sharing
@JS, Leo Keane got married on a flying visit in his military gear to Victoria. You have to think which relatives would have been around at short notice and looked aged 40 +/-5. We know Carl was at Red Point Tools in Melbourne and had a car if he needed to travel to a wedding. Perhaps he lent his car to Leo for the honeymoon as we now Leo was keen on taking cars.
@JS,
You could go to the horse’s mouth. It is usually the best way – unless like me you email serial offenders..oops. It will look like I’m in his crime network.
https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.john_robert_keane.fe97573edd922ea3ca86d599ec48dc89.html
David Morgan: good try but wrong John by my estimation. My John Robert Keane, now aged 81 was last known to be residing in Bondi Junction NSW (1973) and had nothing to do with grand theft auto like, it is alleged, his dad Leo did in his errant youth, around the time he missed Dick Webb’s 70th birthday bash at Werribee.
@JS
It is curious you are willing to believe a young guy aged 20 could be the guy at Leo Keane’s wedding at short notice but not Carl Webb. Wouldn’t it be likely that the other young men were also involved in military service during WW2?
His brother was in uniform. This guy wasn’t. He’s an older guy who Leo knows ‘in the family’. Take your pick. But not a young guy!
David Morgan. NAA is taking a well earned break from digitising and so I can’t get access to Leo’s postings at the time of his marriage to Irene Emily Grey? in ’42. I suspect the wedding may have been in Sydney as his blushing? bride lived at Kings Cross in that city which would have been a long bumpy drive from Bromby Street, South Yarra in those days. I’ll check again later and report back if necessary.
JS – JRK was adopted. He ran auto repair businesses and is also very knowledgeable on WWII aircraft – he has contributed to Peter Dunn’s encyclopaedic Oz at War site.
David Morgan: I still can’t get any action on NAA but, yeah you’re right in that Leo and Irene were hitched in Victoria and that she was a native of said state according to your LDS people. I’m still thinking she had a Kings Cross address during Leo’s service with the RAAF and I’m sure that their son John Robert had lived next tram stop along the track at Bondi Junction in later years.
@js,
Unfortunately, my LDS expert has stopped providing answers after i told him his ancestor had a sister they hadn’t investigated in his genealogy. I gave him the details from Trove about Yinnar and the Yates family.
Having found the grandad had been found guilty of an offence with a young girl. I tracked the family. Actually the grandad had also previously led a young boy out into the wilderness and returned 2 weeks later to find him alive.
1 year later the boy ‘supposedly’ tried to kill the Yates relative’s future mother-in-law and wife – but with his gun. That was convenient he had given him his gun. The boy ended up in an asylum and died not that long afterwards.
.. and the Yates’ became an LDS family…
Victoria: that would seem to fit the bill for the Blackburn John Keane auto repair man more or less but, it’s still well short on confirmation that he is Leo’s son and, your tip on his have been adopted must be substaniated. Thanks for posting.
David Morgan: I give up! who or what is Yinnar when at home, what part did it ot they have in pursuading the Yates family to follow the precarious LSD path and, what era are we talking about? I can confirm that there be a fly speck called Yinnar near Morwell Victoria and I’m also aware of a latter day Yates family what settled in Utah and who’s son Tom became the first Mormon seminary teacher in 1912. So where is the connection between the aforesaid if any and what’s the way forward from here, if there be one?
@JS,
I had started tracking Dr Elkner from his ASIO file. His Vietnam peace meetings monitored by a spy had 2 secretaries Robert Arthur Yates and Thomas Joseph Yates. I assumed (?incorrectly?) by geography they were grandchildren of Penn Symon Yates of Yinnar who was president of the Morwell tennis club. Thomas Joseph was pals with Elknar as Elkner had been his election agent. I thought potentially they shared other interests. Penn Symon had raped a child but got off claiming she said she was 18. The higher court agreed that if the 10/16 year old said she was 18 then she got what she deserved.
Arthur Penn Yates was a civil engineer and JP living in Lower Plenty – according to his son Robert James. There is only 1 trace of him in Yinnar. It is all in retrospect since this guy Robert turned up with an unregistered will but a registered codicil with his solicitor living in the same street. That was lucky. The searches found no evidence of the witnesses to the will. But the court handed over the cash to the assumed son, the train driver.
My theory was that the will was a forgery based on testing it with German HAT software. His son’s signature was very similar to the will witnesses who coincidentally had middle names Linton and Lyndon. But made the L look like an A. similar to the way Robert James wrote Yates – with a large A embedded.
The HAT software examines handwriting like a painting – a pattern of dots.
But I couldn’t find further evidence of the Yates from the Peace committee. One may have been the ASIO spy,
Arthur had asked for his name to be changed to John in official court documents after 1972.
That was as far as I got tracking forward with the Yates. The LDS had no record of his sister. I suspect they left Yinnar under a cloud. She was supposedly engaged to get married.
@David Morgan I have an LDS login, but cannot seem to have remembered the password at familysearch’s Website.
Jo: I got it thanks. Victoria’s tip on Leo’s son suggests he was adopted, not adopted out as I had presumed and makes better sense in re the his marriage in ’42 and John Robert Keane’s birth not long after.
Anyone so interested, the NAA file on John Salomonson is now posted for appraisal and comment thereupon.
My take on contents of the Salomonson immigration file which unfortunately does not include a photograph for comparison with SM (brother Henry?) be as follows :-
1. He might have qualified for the man ID’d by the Kaparra witness going by his tallervthan average height, his smooth soft skin along with the pension card deal, though his “very obese” build would exclude him had he been candidate for SM.
2. His previous employment as a travel guide before non active war service be of interest ie, confirming release due to a peptic ulcer and not on disiplinary grounds as earlier suggested. Also HP complication are somewhat hereditory hence need to not give up on brother Henry de La Fargue aka Jerry Somerton?
3. There is no mention of John’s extensive criminal past including gaol time which understandably he did not fess to in his application for immigration to Australia.
4. Audrey Gertrude Salomonson was older than her husband by three years and admitted freely to being Melbourne (Kew) born. She was a stenographer by calling and suffered from haemorrhoids which be consistent with sedentry office duties.
5. Both John and Audrey seem to have been Catholic which would put paid to a certain physical trait put up Derek Abbott that SM was unlikely to have been a Salomonson.
Whooops missed a couple of important points from page one of the JS file :-
1. JS was discharged from Hampshire Regiment likely due to gross obesity.The pension of 16/6 was for his ulcer as stated on his wallet card No. 2484295.
2. Much of his time pre war seems to have been in Belgium, gels with info given by scam victim. So likely fluency in English, Frog, Dutch, Waloon and Flemish.
3. John’s character reference was Ted Daly London priest and Brighton address given near Fr. Daly’s aged rels. A click from the beach and Somerton Sailing club.
4. Parents of Dutch extraction, father stock broker London died youngish in Holland 1915. Brother Henry no trace post ’44 conviction for false pretences £100 with brother John co offender.
Good on ya for getting the document, always exciting to see what they reveal … only eight pages, no photo, that’s a shame. Poor soul described as an obese alcoholic really.
John Cleland, from memory was the only one to show interest in Christmas card sized envelopes and blue ‘Par Avion’ stickers to go with them found in the suicase. Suggestion being that the Somerton Man might have known people overseas (USA) whom he intended to extend seasons greeting by airmail, having missed surface mail cut off dates to overseas destinations. It must make some of us wonder why Carl Webb, considered by many as being an unpopular and unsociable arsehole intent on self destruction, would want to send happy tidings to anyone, especially foreigners. That is of course if the owner of the suitcase was in fact Carl Webb and, if Carl Webb was our fabled Jerry Somerton, the unknown man as most punters and web owners have set their reputations on. Something for all Keane inspired day dream believers to mull over, just in case they be mistaken.
@JS
Cleland’s report doesn’t seem to corroborate what you’re saying, unless you’re referring to item number 9 of the report that is missing from the doc you and Clive have kindly shared with Gordon, or another source entirely.
“The appearance and history and social class of the deceased as revealed by the body and contents of suitcase:
(…)
8. Air-mail stickers in suitcase – corresponded with some one at a distance – other State more likely than Britain (special air-mail letter forms usually used for latter).”
Jo mentioned E. Africa-possible reason for airmail?
Since the year dot all acclaimed TS/SM historians and theorists, have blundered in the opening sentence synopsis on who, what and whence, for instance one of two so called ‘trainee Jockies’ (strappers) was first person to physicaly interact with the beach body, he being a hoop of long standing and an all state class I race winner, ‘trainee jockey’ Indeed. Besides state RSL boss Sir (later) James Lee, John Bain’s mate was on the scene same time and nary a word has been said about his own presence from likes of Abbott, Felton, Bowes, Cramer. Likewise first suit to arrive at the scene Harold Strangway only gets occasion perfunctory mention and invariably with misspelling of his name. Why neither he nor his own original SoC notes were not summoned for scrutiny at the first Cleland inquest be an indefensable act of judicial incompetence. Reckon we aught now to start from scratch; we’re sure to pay heed to all past blunders and professional fouls next time around…what say Nick, you’re invited to join in too so long as you leave any strong biases/personal feelings for other disinterested procrastinators.
Past blunders? Professional fouls? Indefensible acts? Judicial incompetence?
Well, I never …
Clive: can’t imagine too many international flights doing a mail run into East Africa back in 1948 though apparently you and now Jo hold the contrary view.
While your here mate, got anything to say on the Cleland notes farce, be nice if you could tell the need to know CM crowd your side of the story, as opposed to GC’s version and my own recall of what went down from first week of November to when the ‘notes’ were posted on TS/BS. 24 Nov., 2019. Cheers js
Grasping at straws perhaps but, in the Salomonson death cert. of 1964, the informant, his wife of 33 years Audry, makes mention of her husband’s peptic ulcer of ten years duration. And yet in his 1947 application for migration to Australia, JS gives a much longer period of the infection going back to the 40’s and it’s having been grounds for his discharge from the forces after WW2. I’m suggesting a body swap situation however, there is a deal of mystery around
his supposed gaoling in the mid forties, as detailed in two reliable accounts that doesn’t gel with info in his immigration papers. Oh well, soldier on I guess.