To try to resolve the issue of who Bernardin Nageon de l’Estang actually was, we should take a closer look at the Nageon de l’Estang family members who were in the Indian Ocean at the same time.
And the good news (from an historian’s point of view) is that we have a good genealogical resource to work with: Jean Claude Duchemin’s numerous webpages on Geneanet include not only archival references but also transcriptions of the text itself, giving us confidence that these are genuine.
The three Nageon men I’ll be posting about were all called André:
* André Nageon de l’Estang (~1676-1766) in Part 1;
* his son André Bernardin Nageon de l’Estang (d.1750) in Part 2; and in turn
* André Bernardin’s son André Ambroise Nageon de l’Estang (1745-1798) in Part 3.
André Nageon de l’Estang
André Nageon de l’Estang was very much the pater familias of the Nageon de l’Estang family in the Indian Ocean.
~1676: André Nageon de l’Estang born
before 1727: married Marie Marguerite Belhoste de Vieuville (Belot)
~1716: has a son, André Bernardin Nageon de l’Estang
1726: has a daughter, Jeanne Marie Nageon de l’Estang
1743: Marie Marguerite dies
1st February 1766: André Nageon de l’Estang dies in Lorient (in Brittany)
Source: Jean Claude DUCHEMIN
He worked for many years for the French Compagnie des Indes. We can follow his trail as he went from Lorient to Pondicherry in 1727; his wife and children (Louis and Jeanne Marie) following out in 1729; before then returning to Lorient via Bourbon in 1732 or 1733:
Lys (1727-1728) André NAGEON, sergent, £18, embarqué à Lorient, débarqué à Pondichéry le 30/09/1727
Danaé (1728-1730)NAGEON, 3 passagers, embarquée à l’armement, débarquée à Pondichéry le 05/07/1729, D[emois]elle, avec ses enfants, Louis et Jeanne Marie.
Badine (1730-1732) NAGEON, 4 passagers, embarqué à Pondichéry, débarqué à ?, passager pour la France, avec son épouse, son fils et sa fille.
Reine (1732-1733) NAGEON, 4 passagers, embarqué à l’île Bourbon le ?, débarqué à Lorient, sr, avec sa femme et 2 enfants, passager pour la France.
The curious thing about this is that the son that went with them was named as “Louis”: this was either André Bernardin (and who they must therefore have called “Louis”), or a different son who possibly died young (with André Bernardin, who by then was 12 or 13 years old, perhaps already working on the ships). At this stage, we don’t have enough evidence to call this either way: so let’s leave this as an open question.
Duchemin then moves André’s timeline forward to 1737, quoting from Mémoire des Hommes:
– 15 septembre 1737 : Présentation au Roy du sieur Nageon de l’Etang, enseigne pour la garde des isles de France et de Bourbon
– Brevet de sous lieutenant pour le sieur Nageon de l’Etang : Sa Majesté ayant agréé le sr Nageon de l’Etang qui lui a été présenté par le directeur de la Compagnie des Indes pour servir en qualité de sous lieutenant d’une compagnie d’Infanterie entretenue? pour la Garde des isles de France et de Bourbon, Elle mande au Gouverneur Général des isles de le recevoir et faire reconnaitre en ladite qualité. Fait à Versailles le premier janvier mil sept cent quarante, signâe : Louis
– 15 janvier 1741 : Présentation au Roy du sieur Nageon de l’Etang comme enseigne pour servir à la garde du fort de Gorée et autres lieux dans l’Afrique appartenant à la Compagnie des Indes.
i.e. (my free translation)
Warrant for sublieutenant for Mr Nageon de l’Etang: Her Majesty has approved Nageon de l’Etang, who was presented to him by the director of the East India Company, to serve as Deputy Lieutenant of an infantry company retained for guarding the Ile de France and the Ile de Bourbon. She passed control of this to the Governor General of the Isles of receiving and recognizing that said quality. Done at Versailles on January 1 1740, signed Louis.
Duchemin then quotes from “Les défricheurs de l’Île de France: essai de biographie : contribution à l’étude de l’établissement de l’Île Maurice par la Compagnie des Indes, 1722-1767” (1992) by Octave Béchet:
Nommé à l’Ile de France à la requête de la Reine, bien qu’il eût près de 60 ans. Il avait auparavant servi à l’Ile Bourbon. Sa femme et sa fille l’accompagnèrent. En 1739 il demanda a rentrer en France et de laisser sa femme et sa fille dans l’Ile. La Compagnie des Indes approuva son retour. En 1742, il était Lieutenant major à Gorée, Sénégal.
i.e. (my free translation)
Nominated for the Ile de France at the Queen’s request, despite his being nearly 60 years old. He had previously served on Ile Bourbon. His wife and daughter accompanied him there. In 1739 he asked to return to France and for his wife and daughter to remain on Ile de France. The [French] East India Company approved his return. In 1742 he was made Lieutenant Major at Gorée, Senegal.
As per Béchet’s account, we can see him leaving France for l’île Bourbon in July 1738 with his wife and daughter on the Compagnie des Indes vessel Apollon, before returning on his own back to Lorient in 1740:
Apollon (1738-1739) NAGEON DE L’ÉTANG, officier de troupe passager, embarqué à l’armement, débarqué à l’île de France le 15/07/1738, passager pour l’île Bourbon avec sa femme et sa fille, à la table.
Triton (1739-1740) NAGEON, officier des troupes passager, embarqué à Port-Louis île de France le 07/01/1740, débarqué au désarmement à Lorient le 01/06/1740 — à la table aux frais de la Compagnie.
We can also see his travels between Lorient, Senegal and Brazil in 1741-1745/7 on various Compagnie des Indes ships:
Prince de Conti (1741-1741) NAGEON D’ESTANG, enseigne de troupe passager, embarqué à Lorient, débarqué au Sénégal le 19/04/1741, à la table
Gloire (1741-1741) NAGEON DE LETANG, enseigne de troupe passager, embarqué au Sénégal le 29/04/1741, débarqué à Gorée le 04/05/1741, à la table.
Apollon (1743-1743) NAGEON DE L’ETANG, enseigne de troupe passager, embarqué au Sénégal le 12/06/1743, débarqué au désarmement, Mr, passager pour la France
Lys (1745-1747) André NAJEON DE L’ÉTANG, officier de troupe, £45, “a fait la campagne de Lorient au Brésil”.
Finally: was this last entry a snapshot of André going between Mauritius and Madagascar on the Triton, or was it his son André Bernardin? It seems he was working in the Atlantic for the Compagnie des Indes at this time, so it seems to me more likely to have been his son:
Triton (1743-1745) NAGEON, officier de vaisseau passager, embarqué à l’île de France le ?, débarqué le 29/11/1744, à la table du capitaine embarqué pour Madagascar.
The Mysterious Pilot?
Given that André’s son André Bernardin died in 1750, I ought to point out that there are two Memoires des Hommes entries that don’t quite fit the basic timeline:
* Paix (1754-1755) André NAGEON, Île de France, pilotin, £15, remplacement à l’île Maurice le 01/02/1755, débarqué à l’île Bourbon le 04/04/1755 ?, embarqué sur la Renommée le 16/04/1755.
* Condé (1756-1759) André NAGEON, Île de France, pilotin, £12, embarqué à l’armement, débarqué à l’île de France le 30/12/1757.
Who was this mysterious [apprentice] pilot on the Paix and the Condé? Was it André Bernardin Nageon de l’Estang’s nine-year-old son André Ambroise Nageon de l’Estang (really?)… or might it have been his father André Nageon de l’Estang (who was 80 or so years old)?
For what it’s worth, my suspicion is that this pilot was the young boy’s sprightly grandfather, keeping himself busy with a bit of pilotage. But for now, that’s just my speculation, make of it what you will!
Update: As Dario kindly points out in the comments below, given that ‘pilotin’ means ‘apprentice helmsman’, the answer would seem to be that this was in fact a very young André Ambroise Nageon de l’Estang, about whom more in Part 3…
This is my first comment on this site, which I have been following for several years now. I have just backed your Kickstarter project even if I see that the odds are against us by now. I hope you have a plan to reach out to a wider audience before the timeline…
By the way, a ”pilotin” is not a pilot (that would be a “pilote”). As any decent dictionary can tell you (e.g. http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/academie9/pilotin ), a “pilotin” was an apprentice helmsman by the 18th century, and the current meaning is “somebody who is training to be a merchant navy officer”. “Apprentice” has been the relevant point all along, and my bet is that it was the nine-year-old boy who was on board of the Paix and the Condé.
Dario: thanks very much for backing the project (you’ll be pleased to hear that there’s a lot of activity planned for the next three days) – and I stand corrected as far as pilotin goes, so thank you very much for that as well. 🙂
Bonjour
Bernardin Nageon de l’Estang est né le 7/09/1715 à Picauville (50).
Jeanne Vincente Félicité est née le 24/11/1726 à Lorient.
Tous deux enfants de André Nageon de l’Estang et de Marie Marguerite Belhote de Vieuville, mariés.
André Nageon est décédé à Lorient le 1/02/1766 à l’âge de 90 ans.
En 1738 au mariage de leur fils Bernardin, à Lorient, il est noté que la mère M.M. Belhote est domicilié à Picauville.
Merci pour toutes les infos mises en ligne. J’espère contribuer à les compléter.
Bien cordialement
R.M.
Maison Regine: that’s very interesting, thank you. 🙂
But… how do you know these things? Where did you find this information? Over the years, I have been sent many claims about the Nageon de l’Estang family which have (unfortunately) turned out to be false, so I am excited to see what evidence you have to support your information. Thanks again!
En croisant les renseignements obtenus sur le site Généanet, les Archives d’outre-mer et les archives en ligne en France.
Ces dates sont dans les registres d’état civil des Archives départementales de la Manche,pour Picauville et du Morbihan pour Lorient en France. Ces archives sont en ligne.
Je viens de découvrir que Philippe Prévost de La Croix et Jeanne Marie Nageon de l’Étang (fille d’André Nageon et de Marie Belhoste) ont eu un fils, Louis Gilles, né le 12/10/1762 à Lorient (Morbihan) et décédé le 16/8/1829 à Brest (département du Finistère). Louis Gilles a reçu la Légion d’Honneur en 1804 et son dossier est en ligne sur la base Léonore. On y apprend que Louis Gilles Prévost était marié avec Marie Françoise La Motte et qu’il avait eu 3 enfants : 1 fille et 2 garçons tous deux dans la marine lors de son décès.
Pour les archives de Brest il n’y a que les tables décennales en ligne.
Malheureusement je n’arrive pas à trouver le mariage d’André Nageon et de Marie Belhoste de Vieuville.
Cette famille fait partie des ascendants de l’arbre généalogique de ma belle-fille.
Je pourrai vous envoyer les photos des actes et les cotes des archives sur votre bal personnelle.
Bien cordialement
R. M.
Regine: M. Duchemin has been busy since I wrote these posts on the Nageon de l’Estang family, because he has been able to fill in many gaps. 🙂
I am still sure that Jeanne Marie Nageon de l’Estang was too young to have been the mother of Bernardin’s nephew Jean-Marie-Justin Nageon de l’Estang (as per the letters). Hence I remain confident that there was a missing brother Louis between Bernardin and Jeanne Marie, as I discussed here:
https://ciphermysteries.com/2016/10/04/nageon-family-part-3-jean-marie-justin-nageon-de-lestang
Even so, I don’t believe anyone apart from me is currently looking for Louis Nageon de l’Estang – but please tell me if I am wrong! 😉
(Indexed as PREVOST DE LA CROIX, LOUIS GILLES in Leonore, if anyone is interested. Interestingly, he served on L’Appollon in 1790 (p.3). 🙂
Non, vous ne vous trompez pas, moi je cherche des renseignements sur André Nageon marié à Marie Marguerite Belhoste.
J’espère qu’un jour vous aboutirez dans vos recherches.
Bien cordialement.
R. Maison
J’ai oublié de vous préciser que sur l’acte de naissance du fils de Nageon André et de Marie Marguerite Belote, il est bien noté un seul prénom : Bernardin. (07/11/1715 à Picauville (Manche, France).
Bonjour
J’ai trouvé sur Généanet l’arbre de H.P.L. Maurel concernant la famille Nageon, mais il n’y a pas de dates précises pour Louis Nageon de l’Étang. (environ1715-1726)
Par contre il y a toute la lignée depuis André marié à M.M. Belhoste de Vieuville.
Jean Marie Justin Nageon de l’Étang est né le 08/08/1776, à Port Louis Île Maurice et baptisé le 04/01/1777 même ville (Archives nationales d’outre mer France).
Fils de André Nageon de l’Étang et de Mathurine PITEL.
J’ai trouvé le mariage à Brest en 1715 le 23/02/ (Archives municipales ) d’André Nageon avec Marie M. Belhoste de Vieuville. Grâce à Henri Maurel sur Généanet.
Bien cordialement
R. Maison
Regine: I have corresponded many times with Henri Maurel, I have only good things to say about him. 🙂
However… in this case, he seems to have taken information at face value from Association Ame de Pirate, who refer to “Archives de l’Ile Maurice KA64 vue 03/Groupe Dynarobin 2005”:
https://gw.geneanet.org/hmaurel?lang=en&p=jean+marie+justin&n=nageon+de+l+estang
I am sorry to say that I am extraordinarily suspicious of any new ‘facts’ brought forward by the Association Ame de Pirates, and so would urge anyone to seek out a copy of the original document for themselves before jumping to conclusions based on it. Henri very likely added this information to his family tree in good faith, but – as I mentioned in a previous reply – I have already seen plenty of genealogical ‘facts’ about the Nageon de l’Estang family that turn out to be not as accurate as at first claimed. 🙁
Forgive my repetitive advice concerning Mathew Flinders the explorer, who spent nearly seven years as a free ranging prisoner of the French governor on Mauritius between 17th December 1803 and March 1810. In his two volumes ‘Terra Australis, a Journey of Exploration’, published the day of his death, aged 40 in 1814, he very thoughtfully devotes an hundred pages to his interesting island adventures whilst “in custody”. Perhaps the great man’s memoirs might provide some interesting details pertaining to this somewhat confusing thread. PS: I’m unable to locate my last more detailed related post from two years back and can’t even recall whether it made copy.
HI, Nick (sorry if my message is useless (again?)) . Here we have a andré bernardin nageon de l’estang too on the Amphitrite: https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/en/_depot_mdh/_depot_images/INDES/SHDLORIENT/TABLESPDF/ROLE2P28-II.5.PDF…23 years , third pilot (?) from Valogne. It’s said that he was “renversé” sur le Duc d’Anjou but i can’t find him on the role of the ship.
Anthony
https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/arkotheque/client/mdh/compagnie_des_indes/equipages_et_passagers_resu_rech.php
You probably already know it but here’s all the nageon we can find.
Anthony: I’ve already raked through Memoire des Hommes (and numerous other sources) many times, and posted a series of pages on the Nageon de l’Estang family in 2016-2017:
* https://ciphermysteries.com/2016/10/01/nageon-family-part-1-andre-nageon-de-lestang
* https://ciphermysteries.com/2016/10/02/nageon-family-part-2-andre-bernardin-nageon-de-lestang
* https://ciphermysteries.com/2016/10/04/nageon-family-part-3-jean-marie-justin-nageon-de-lestang
* https://ciphermysteries.com/2016/10/06/nageon-family-part-4-andre-ambroise-nageon-de-lestang
* https://ciphermysteries.com/2017/01/22/nageon-family-part-5-missing-andre-nageon-de-lestang
Enjoy! 🙂
ok, sorry, it’s because I have got some difficuties to navigate on your website (i don’t know why)…. In few days i will receive the “miroir du monde” juillet 1934. It’s talking about la buse. Are you interested? (i guess you have it already )
Anthony: very interesting! For a nice change I wasn’t previously aware of that article. Is that n° 228 with:
* La fête de l’eau au bois de Boulogne
* Je fus agrippine devant Mussolini
* Philosophes et bruleurs
etc?
hello Nick, As i’ve told you i have some difficulties to surf on your website. Therefore i Don’t even remember (as you’ve probably noticed) if what i know is from your works here or from another source.
I’ve bought the n227 “miroir du monde (07/07/1934). I have found the ref here (may be thanks to your website, i can’t remember) https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k57931095/f2.item.r=la%20buse%20cryptogramme.zoom
I’m going to buy the n228 (i’ve found it too) so as to be “sure”. (i don’t know neither the contents of 227 or 228)
Anthony: I would save your money (don’t buy 228!) and wait for your copy of #227 to arrive, this seems to be the exact one mentioned in the article.
It is also clearly to do with the legend of La Buse as ably described by Charles de la Ronciere, I hope you have a copy of “Le Flibustier Mysterieux” already? (There’s a modern reprint.)
Thank you, the seller has sent me the contents of 228 and it’s not the right number. 227 should be the “one”. Yes i’ve got the Charles de La Ronciere (we talked about it some weeks ago :)) …I will send you a copy of the article if you want.
I’m interested with “La Buse “since 2013. I’m trying to find a “possibly” book from which La buse was inspired to write is crypto. that kind of book : https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k98189048/f97.item.r=coeurs%20cuillere
My hope is to compare the original text to the crypto…
Only the two paragraphs beginning par “prenez” are interesting…
Anthony: having myself spent a good amount of time looking for French magic recipes from that era (anything that starts with something along the lines of ‘take two pigeon hearts..’ can hardly be anything else, right?), I heartily agree with the general direction of your search. 🙂
That said, I struggled (as a non-native French speaker) to make the most of the extraordinary resource that is Gallica, and so it is entirely likely that other people will enjoy more luck than me there. 🙂
Très bien, disons dans ce cas, que je m’occupe de Gallica 🙂
Anthony: something like this – https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k503903r.r=amour%20prenez%20philtre?rk=21459;2 🙂