Some interesting Cipher Mysteries comments arrived here today from “RT”, prodding me to take a second look at something I nosed around a while back (but then promptly forgot to blog about). Here’s what he wrote:-
RT comment #1: “I think the SM was married to Jessica.”
RT comment #2: “Has anyone thought that she could have been Mrs J E Styn. Or Van Styn? […]”
RT comment #3: “I along with others have always thought she was married to him. I think that for some reason she did a runner from him met Prosper and changed her name. He tracked her down and things went sour. That is only my opinion but you need proof. I also am very certain that Robin is the SM’s son. I think that Prosper was aware of this and accepted it. It worked well for him as his parents were very wealthy and a son would enable him to collect an increased inheritance.”
For all the ideas, notions, and speculations in there, this is a splendidly romantic secret history, albeit one woefully short of actual facts (which RT freely admits). But let’s look again at the primary evidence we do have – the “Jestyn” signature in the copy of the Rubaiyat given to Alf Boxall:-
According to Gerry Feltus: when Jessie met Boxall in 1944, she knew that he was married and had two children (his second child, a daughter called Lesley, had just been born), and she had his address in Maroubra: so I think that quite why she felt the need to sign herself with a different name “Jestyn” (or “JEstyn” as Feltus writes it) in the Rubaiyat is an open (and slightly perplexing) question. And there’s definitely a gap between the “JE” part and the “styn” part.
Another unexplained question from this time is why Jessie changed her name to Thomson several years before her husband-to-be’s divorce came through. According to RT’s (admittedly unverified) story, this was because she was ‘on the run’ from her previous partner / husband: but all we actually know for sure is that she “terminated her employment as a nurse in Sydney” in 1946, moved to Mentone near her parents, and then moved to Adelaide in early 1947, where she gave birth (to Robin) in the middle of 1947, all (again) according to the ever-reliable Gerry Feltus.
Could it be, then, that the secret history of this signature is that it is actually “J. E. Styn“, and that Jessica had taken her earlier partner’s surname? I wondered about this a while back, and so did various searches (Trove etc) for “Styn” that all turned up nothing at all promising. It all seemed to be a blank.
But today, I did another trawl over broadly the same set of archives and found a single reference I had previously missed to a Willen Styn. It’s “NAA: PP14/3 DUTCH/STYN W”, containing “STYN Willen – Nationality : Dutch – [Application Form for Registration as Alien]”, dating from 1916-1920, item barcode 5143479 in Perth. If you want to see the catalogue entry, go to the National Archives of Australia, click on RecordSearch, and then search for Willen Styn. I’ve already ordered a copy of the actual record, and will let you all know when it arrives.
Note that the PP14/3 series of archives is “the Register of aliens maintained under War Precautions (Aliens Registered) Regulations 1916”, i.e. a list of foreign nationals in Australia at the time of WW1 (presumably because Styn was Dutch). The Australian archives have plenty of related immigration files from the same period (e.g. PP14/1, which I went through the index of just in case there was some kind of misspelling of Styn in there, but to no avail).
So… I’ll say it. If “Jestyn” should properly be read as “J. E. Styn”, then might the Somerton Man be the somewhat-off-the-radar Dutchman Willen Styn? Let’s go and look for some evidence, see what we turn up.
Right now, I have a sneaking suspicion that he may turn out to be even harder to track than dear old Horace Charles Reynolds… but we shall see! So this is your cue: Cipher Mysteries research legions, please descend upon the collected Australian archives and see if you can find anything – anything at all! – about the mysterious Willen Styn. Good hunting! 🙂
Now this is a Cipher Mystery story that I have enjoyed reading. For some reason it feels absolutely right!. I did notice the reference on NAA to a Willen Styn. Thank you so much for posting this Nick.
Could be J E Slyn instead but I am sure it is J E Styn! There are Slyn surnames out there as well!
After the Somerton man was whacked why was he left on the beach? It would have been easier to take him out back unless the intention was to have him found.
Was this sending a message?
Did the killers remove the labels from his clothes and place the suitcase in the railroad station?
Wow.
I’m no professional but have read a bit on handwriting, and I think the signature might be worth seeking a professional’s opinion.
The loose – not to say lax – form of the ‘J’ contrasts with the form of ‘styn’ which looks almost masculine in the firmness and unfussiness of the hand. The t’s cross bar would be interepreted, as I understand it, as evidence of a kindly and optimistic nature, while the closed lower loop of the ý would indicate a person disinclined to displays of emotion – very different from the ‘J’. Traditionally the Greek ‘E’ is supposed to indicate an ethical and upright nature, perhaps true or perhaps simply a relic of Conan Doyle.
Since handwriting is still used today in some high-level companies as preliminary sieve for job-applications there should be enough experts out there – any reading this?
OK, I will entertain this theory for a while, but…isn’t it at least as likely that the surname was “Estyn”? That would explain why the upper case “E” is followed by the all lower case “styn”? It is clear from the samples of her handwriting available on the web that Jessie was reasonably literate and distinguished between lower case “s” and “S”, “e” and “E” etc.
FWIW, my brief research suggests that “Styn” (as distinct from “Steyn” etc) is more common in both the USA and Poland (than the Netherlands or South Africa).
The name “Estyn” is even rarer in Australia, but not unknown. NAA name searches don’t turn up much (other than one man who had it as a first name), but others appear in the newspapers on Trove.
PS – I think only an illiterate in those days would have written a small “s” for a capital letter (styn). Each day’s compulstory schooling included a full period each devoted to spelling, grammar, and dictation. Even if Steyn were not a native speaker of English, I don’t see how he’d get that wrong.
Willem is a common Dutch given name, I don’t think Willen is. Styn would be an variant (old-fashioned, possibly fossilized as a surname) or anglicization of Stijn, common as a given name, known as a surname.
Hi Nick,
Fascinating if this turns out to be true–could well be the reason JE called herself “Thomson” for some 3 years or so before she eventually married Prosper and, if Prosper’s family were quite wealthy this would be an incentive for her to stick to him-as she did have a child to bring up. So, it could be that Jessica’s signature is quite correct on the verse and not a code as I and, no doubt, others have always assumed.
[Peter De Wachter adds:]
Some notes from somebody who speaks Dutch:
– Be aware that “Styn” might also be spelled “Stijn”. It’s a common
Dutch first name, but I’ve never seen it as a last name.
– “Willen” is likely a misspelling of “Willem”, another very common
first name.
– If you’re willing to read the signature as Dutch, it might be the
phrase “Je Stijn”: “Your Stijn”.
Flavia, Peter: thanks for your comments on the name. I’m aware that “Willen” and “Styn” both look wrong, but right now I only have an online catalogue entry of a single unseen data point (some or all of which may be misspelt), built on top of a wobbly reading of a single signature, so am trying not to get people’s hopes up too much. Normal history is hard enough, and this is history right at the edge. 😐
I’ve also wondered whether it was a fake name (Google helpfully lists mentions of the surname “Willenstyn”), added by someone merely pretending to be Dutch. With the way everything else about the Somerton Man case has worked, perhaps treating every aspect of the evidence with suspicion might not be such a bad idea. 🙂
All the same, I’m hoping that the full contents of the alien registration form will contain enough additional information to narrow things down. For example, the scanned records for “VITALI Siro” – http://soda.naa.gov.au/item/5131443 – run to 30 (!) pages. It seems that during wartime, a foreign national had to inform the police if he/she intended either to settle in a certain district, or to travel outside of the police district where they normally lived: the file would therefore contain the accumulated records of that foreign national’s movements during the period of restriction, so may yet turn out to be surprisingly revealing. Fingers crossed!
RT: the image with the signature is hyperlinked to a larger scan of the same page, where you can see that that the ‘t’s are crossed in the same loose way elsewhere. “Slyn” is possible, but my vote is (as yours) currently for “Styn”… hopefully we shall see!
Styn and stijn would look the very similar in cursive? I’m not sure if that’s relevant.
Perhaps that is why the t is so extended…it is intended to cross the t’s and dot the i’s so to speak.
@Diane The way the letter E is written is how I was taught to write a capital E (cursive) in the 1970s in primary school, Australia; so I don’t find it unusual. Incidentally all the other characters also look the same as I was taught except for possibly the for the ‘I’ and ‘T’, but to be honest I can’t remember how we were taught to write them. Of course by the time we were in highschool we all had our own personal style.
I wonder what the surnames are on Robin’s birth certificate (for both Robin and Jessie) and also who the father is listed as, or if the father is “unknown” on the certificate.
Also, is it possible that she left her job at the hospital simply because she became pregnant? I’m pretty sure that being an unmarried pregnant woman in 1940s Australia would have been frowned upon. So perhaps the reason for her leaving her job and moving back close to her parents is as simple as that.
Still can’t understand if “Styn” is her surname-why is the ‘s’ on her signature so small? When you read the second line of the verse-there are 4 “s” on this line and all 4, as written by Jessica, are different in shape/size. Also, just something else I noticed, on the second & fourth line, the last word(s) “I swore” & “tore” are written higher than the preceding words on the same lines. Similar to the 3rd line on the Code where the letters “O” & “QC” are also higher-coincidence?
Is it possible that she signed her surname-“Jestyn” and not her first name?
That’s a nice bunch of wrapped up presents Santa pushed down the chimney, ain’t it? 😀
Won’t interfere much with the pros here. Happy New Year and “keep keeping” it real everyone…
I found a string of conversations on Roots Web that are interesting. I have contacted the author for more information!
Subject: Re: A “Jessie Harkness” in my family tree!!!
Date sent: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:47:53 +0100 (BST)
Priority: NORMAL
Further to my message of Tue 25 Jul 2000, I have now
discovered who the Jessie HARKNESS in my family tree is: she is
in fact not you, the Jessie HARKNESS from the MCDOUGALL Mailing
List, but the Jessie HARKNESS from “Adelaide, South Australia” – which, I must admit, I find even more
exciting!!! (Sorry!)
Jamie
Since finding that Jessie HARKNESS, I have confirmed that she is the same one that
married a Prosper THOMSON, (she changed
her surname to THOMSON),as Prosper Thomson was already married, a letter I recently received
from Jessie’s son, Robin THOMSON as I wrote in my last message).
So there you have it. I’m not sure that you are interested
in this, but I thought you might be, if you are researching
the HARKNESS/THOMSON family. So, do you know if you are related to
this lot? It would be nice to be able to add you to my
family tree!
Actually, I’ll send a copy of this to Robin as well, as
I seem to remember that he is descended from some
THOMSONs. I expect that he is probably still busy, but he might be interested. (Are you two related?)
Well, bye for now, and I hope that the Mailing List
is going well without me.
Best wishes,
Oliver
Does anyone know what year Jessica Thomson identified her connection to The Somerton Man Case? These emails on Roots Web are 14 years old?
Also Jessica never graduated from the hospital she was training at in Sydney. Derek Abbott couldn’t find any record of such. I am trying to work out why Jessica listed herself as a ‘Sister’ in the Adelaide phone book for the Moseley Street, Glenelg address when she wasn’t qualified.
Clive: I completely agree that the ‘s’ looks much more like an ‘s’ than an ‘S’, and that her ‘s’es are indeed variable. But if anyone has a better explanation as to what “Jestyn” means, I certainly haven’t heard it. 🙁
I’m not sure about the similarities to the Code, though… will have to look again more closely.
I’m viewing the ‘Jestyn’ signature in my iphone so I have the opportunity of zooming right in. There is something about the ‘E’ that doesn’t look quite right. Almost like it was added afterwards or amended over a different letter. Could it be Jo Styn? She was known as Jo to her friends.
RT is yet another troll with mental health issues, making up garbage because they have nothing intelligent to say.
RT: I’ve wondered about this too – it looks somewhat as if the ‘e’ was added in a slightly darker ink, because the end-stroke of the ornate ‘J’ goes slightly beyond the bottom of the ‘e’.
So again, in the post I should have mentioned the possibility that the original signature was “_J_ Styn” (i.e. loopy ‘J’), in which case the ‘s’ would kind of look intermediate between an ‘s’ and an ‘S’. Are any other signatures still out there we might compare this with?
Debra: the possibility that “Jestyn” is actually “J. E. Styn” was something that I considered a while back but never got round to posting about, so it was simply that RT happened to remind me. The rest of his story sounds broadly as unlikely as every other Tamam Shud theory I’ve heard proposed, but until such time as we have solidly evidential rocks to throw at all these beautiful-looking windows, who can say? 🙂
Well, another possibility is that he was her brother.
I am talking about this rubbish:
“I found a string of conversations on Roots Web that are interesting. I have contacted the author for more information!” etc.
Craig,
I’m not sure of the model used in S.A., but until the late ’60s and early ’70s when a new style was introduced, the handwriting taught in NSW and Victoria though it had minor differences such as the way small ‘t’ was written, looked pretty much like Queen Victoria’s style –
Examples from her diary are online.
The generation educated before W.W.1 in those states used a still more old-fashioned style, pretty much the clerk’s full copperplate, though I’ve noticed that documents by academics, doctors and lawyers tend to lose the flourishes and look more like the ‘steyn’ in that signature.
Debra I am not a troll and I don’t suffer from any mental health issues. Who the hell do you think you are? Judging by your comments you have anger management issues.
RT: do you have a link for this? It doesn’t seem to be in either the THOMSON or HARKNESS archived threads on RootsWeb.
Debra direct your anger at someone else please. I am well aware this site has plenty of Taman Trolls. I am certainly not one of them. Thanks for ruining this thread you aggressive idiot.
Sorry Nick if you are going to approve comments like Debra’s I’m afraid I will no longer contribute to this thread and others. It’s it clear bullying and it’s unacceptable.
RT: posting a link to the RootsWeb thread you quoted would surely be enough to reverse her opinion.
I am unable to post a link to the site on this page. Your filter systems don’t allow it.
You should never have allowed Debra to have even posted that comment in the first place it’s is unacceptable.
So you are condoning that it is acceptable to publish a comment which attacks another person Nick?
All Debra needed to say was could you put up the link. What Debra said (and you published it) was unfounded and abusive.
RT: I’m sorry if you felt I misjudged that. Moderating a site with so many active Tamam Trolls is a perilous tightrope to be walking each day, and there’s rarely an answer that is right for everyone. If you want to send me the link you were trying to post, I’ll edit it in to your comment – as always, I’m nickpelling (at) nickpelling (dot) com.
One can also read that signature as “J Estijn” and Estijn is a Dutch surname.
All the same, Occam’s razor suggests that Jestyn was merely a nickname, probably chosen by the woman herself for (1) its prominence in aristocratic/celebrity circles in the 193Os/40s (e.g. Baron John Jestyn Llewellin and Jestyn Philipps, 2nd Viscount St Davids) and; (2) some resonances with JESsie Ellen harknESS.
I wondered if Willen Steyn mightn’t be another instance of a name assumed in the confusion of the second world war’s ending, and since people do tend to assume names known to them, I thought the following might intrigue some readers here.
A play which would have still been well-known when the Somerton man died wasone written by Jean Cocteau and first performed in Paris, then elsewhere through France as L’Aigle a deux tetes in 1946. An English version was staged in London in that same year.
It was in New York the following year. and in 1948 it was made into a film directed by Cocteau himself, though that version proved a disaster.
It’s a film about a queen and an assassin.
Not sure just when it arrived in Australia, but I should expect it staged soon after the London version, since in those times Australia was an strongly imitative of English ways as it is increasingly now of America’s.
One of the characters in that play is named Willenstein (not -steyn),
A couple of details in the plot are oddly concordant with the story of Somerton Man, though it would take a peculiar sense of humour to have made this deliberately so.
Just for curiosity’s sake..
(i) The play is about Ludwig, a mad Bavarian king found drowned in Lake Stamberg ..”in circumstances which have never been satisfactorily explained.” – to quote a synopsis.
(ii) Cocteau drew upon Remy de Gourmont’s ‘Promenades littéraires’. his portrait of the Queen Elizabeth of Austria,
I daresay a novelist could devise a marvellously complicated novel from all this, so let me point out that Somerton Man died on December 1, 1948, the end of the year following those when George V’s third son served as Australia’s Governor General, but several years before the visit of Australia’s queen to that country: Elizabeth II visited from 3 February 1954 – 1 April 1954.
So there you go, you budding airport novelists… 🙂
Seems that the letter from Oliver to Jamie is an adaptation of something that appeared on Rootsweb on the date in question. Link is to someone named FELTHAM. Try a search with some of the language in question.The wording is almost identical, with adaptations of course.
Thanks a ‘a friend’ it was sent to my email inbox recently.
Why doesn’t everyone wait for the National Archives of Australia to respond to Nick’s request for a digital copy of Willen Styn’s record and then act on the available information.
What is Marshall’s identity from the Marshall Files? What is his provenance and how does he claim to be related to the Somerton Man?
Or if anyone is based in Australia and near the location in question, and the available file ‘is marked as open’ you can visit the National Archives in person to view it.
“RT” Whether Jessie graduated at RNSH or not. There is a listing of nurses who graduated from the RNSH from the year 1899 onwards. The 1946 listing shows Jessie E. Harkness as one of those nurses. She was supposed to have graduated on 11-11-45. I have contacted the RNSH on two separate occasions to try & glean further information to confirm what date Jessie graduated, that’s assuming that Nov 1945 was correct. I have had no respond, which could mean the following: They don’t reveal information on individual nurses, they can’t be bothered to look into their records or, she didn’t graduate and her record went “missing”.
RT: from where I’m sitting, you did something pretty much indistinguishable from trolling (copying a faked-up RootsWeb thread into a comment), and got correctly called on it by Debra and ‘a friend’. Now… may I ask who sent that fake thread to you?
Hi RT sorry you have encountered this. Was it sent from an email address ‘MCMEOWZ’ ? or ‘SOPHIE JENSEN’. You really shouldn’t read everything that is sent to your email account.
Marshall appears to be suggesting that he is Robin Thomsons son. Either that orJL is posing under his name which would be hardly surprising.
On the handwriting and specifically the discussion regrading the letter E appearing is a stronger ink and the possibility that it was added later to Jessicas signature in her letter to AB.
I suspect that the letter was written with an old fashion fountain pen. Ive never used one so someone else may be able to shed some light here but my understanding is that you dipped the pen into an ink well regularly as required whilst you wrote? if this is the case the stronger ink on the “e’ could be explained simply by Jess inking just after writing the J .
Hi Joel/ “mcmeowz”/ teal black. not hard to flush you out is it?
Joel is just protecting his nan. Have some compassion.
[Troll Probability: High]
Joel broke into my house and planted video bugs every where. I need help.
Hi Nick, On the verse page just to the left and below of the “J” for Jessie signature, there is a vertical, narrow width section on the page which seems to have been peeled downwards. Was something written on this small section? and it was carefully pulled away, without creating a hole in the page.
Clive: I speculated whether it was originally a kiss (“X”) but removed by Alf Boxall before giving the book to his wife. Unless you’ve got a better suggestion…? 😉
It is probably where the sticky tape was removed, after the Littlemore Interview, where they had put a small piece of paper over the top of the name.
It sure looks like a mark a piece of tape would leave if peeled off. Did she tape a photo to the page?
It’s where Alf covered up JEstyns name.
There is another possible explanation for that incongruous “E”. Miss Harkness was engaging in the playful misuse of characters. By way of analogy, were she a teenager these days, she might call herself J3$$13 H@RKN355.
Miss Harkness was capitalizing the E to denote Jessica Ellen, as part of the word Jestyn.
Hi Celestine, that is possible, although I believe she was christened simply “Jessie” — without a middle name — was known as “Jo ” to at least some family members and that “Jessica Ellen” came later. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
She was born – Jessie Ellen H………..
She later changed her name to Jessica.
I knew the nurse in Switzerland. A lovely soul.
Except she was never in Switzerland. Another fabrication.
If you couldn’t even find out her travel history celestene. . I think you might be a few tadpoles short of a pond. 🙂
Celestine haven’t you got a test tube baby to look after? I don’t know where you find the time!
Why can’t we know the big secret, R? Or should I say, Marshall?
Never heard of a Marshall Celestine or should I say Rachel Rebecca Egan formally known as Jenny O’Neill.
You really need to stop drinking all that white wine and popping Valium’s Celestine. Go and tend to your test tube baby instead.
The truth is powerful
Smerdon did it. He was the chemist. And his father lived across the rd from JEstyn
D.A. You jest, but you might be closer to the truth than you think. A medical student lived at 92 Moseley, and there were quite a few chemist, pharmacists and medical practitioners in Glenelg and Somerton Park. And bucket loads of nurses.
I have the names of all the residents in Moseley Street 1950. Nobody called Smerdon, or anything similar. Good try, but you could do better.
No Prosper or Jessie listed either. But nobody listed at 90a Moseley Street, so I expect they were not enrolled to vote.
B. Deveson
Voting is compulsory for all Australian citizens. Not sure offhand what the voting age was back then, but Jessie was surely of age.
I think if you look deeper you will find smerdons father across the rd from JEstyn in 1948
Diane, as has been discussed elsewhere on this forum recently, there is anecdotal evidence that registration _is_ avoidable and if one is never registered to vote, any failure to vote never becomes an issue. Especially if one moves interstate – as both Prosper and Jessie (at least three times in her case) did. If either of them were ever enrolled in a State other than SA, they would simply have dropped off that State’s roll and never reappeared, anywhere.
D.A. Well, as you alluded to, there are two Smerdons listed in the 1950 Glenelg Commonwealth Electoral Roll. 7819: Smerdon, Alexander Henry. 8 Anzac Highway. Control Officer. And 7820 Smerdon, Avis Bell. 97 Jetty Road. Home duties.
A “control officer” indeed. It sounds like Mr Smerdon might have been a range control officer at Woomera. But I can’t find any link to Jessie or Prosper thus far. Certainly worthy of further investigation.
I agree furry. Especially if Jestyn changed her name in the west of the country before settling in Adelaide
The Man found on Somerton Beach was JEstyns biological father.
Marshall is a crony fake spy. Hired by JEstyns grandson that has been mentioned in previous matters on here. He has been set loose on us all to create misinformation and a state of chaos for gifted investigators like myself and many others.
Agreed with Furphy, electrol lists are gold if they are enrolled but not to dispair if not listed as that happens also. Telephone listings of the time are another good angle. Less mobile phones back then 🙂
D.A thats a big call… even if your info is correct, what is your evidence that it was that person?
Could the head have been moved by the relevant authorities enough to cause this lividity?
Unfortunately, Alexander Henry Smerdon was a life long architect. “Control officer” probably meant what we would now call a building inspector.
Seems like you’re fond of spreading misinformation also D.A.
Go away Joel!
[Troll Probability: High]
Come back Joal
[Troll Probability: High]
My account has been hacked by trolls. 🙁 I have been to police. They are looking for James Thomson/Carl Thomson
[Troll Probability: High]
James tricked me saying he was my brother. This is a lie. I am heart broken at this. He produced a DNA test with results showing that we share the same Father. I have since found out that this is also a lie. Please stop who ever you are. XL
Jessica Ellen + Justyn = JEstyn
Possible?
20 something “bohemians” are wont to play similar word games. It beats the “tina” for tiny explanation hands down. Now…Is it possible to find a Justyn with McMahon roots?
I like that a lot misca. McMahon macmahon is the key. Pakies is also vital.
Hiya Nick. Well, I seem to have found a steain, in the family tree. It’s through a marriage and I don’t believe that it has ANYTHING to do with “JEstyn”;s siggy but given all of the hard work, I do feel obliged to share. The family of “Joseph Josephus Steain” born 1816 (not in Australia) died 18 November 1892 in Newtown, Hobart, Tasmania, connects into Jessica’s tree. Not directly. In fact, very indirectly, through marriages.
I am new and have a lot to cath up, I am am happy to see that someon saw a link to ‘Stijn’ which is indeed a common first name ( I am Flemish)
This may not be new but did some see mailbox ‘mliabo’ + the ‘x’ above
and also the wordt Samstag (samstga?) which is saturday in German?
The ‘E’ looks darker than the J Styn, so the J E Styn makes a certain amount of sense (with the E added afterward for some reason, perhaps as some sort of a clarification…..
Or what if it’s not an ‘E’ at all? What if it’s an amepersand? There was a comment up the thread somewhere that Stijn might be a common Dutch first name….
What if it should be read ‘J & Stijn’ – and the jokes been on us since the year dot?
I have a mild problem that Jess should recall giving Boxall the Rubaiyat and not mention that it was from more than just her, although equally I could imagine a conversation that implied it was just from her even when she may have meant from her and someone else (and (if we ignore the idea that it was some sort of romantic gesture) it would sort of make sense that a parting gift came from a group of acquaintances (or drinking buddies) rather than from one (especially if you want to be clear that no romantic intention is implied))….
But who, then, is Stijn? You’d think we would have stumbled across someone with a name like that by now, especially given this particular thread. What if Stijn was a nickname? What if a mutual friend had Dutch heritage, or some other reason to nickname them Stijn? Perhpas someone with a surname Holland (although I’ve never known anyone with a surname Holland to be known as anything uther than ‘Dutchy’, but perhaps they were more clever with their nicknames).
Stijn seems to be a name shortened to it’s suffix and sort of equates to the english ‘stine’ (as in Augustine), pronounced ‘stain’ or ‘stein’ as far as I can tell (the pronunciations may lead to alternate spelllings), and apparently there’s a variant simply dropping the ‘S’ to ‘Tijn’.
Totally random (and I’m not suggesting anything by it, well, ok I am, but only as a lark), there’s a site listing equivalent names in other languages and “Constantine” comes up a couple of times (but not for Greek – that’s ‘Gus’, apparently, presumably more from Augustine).
Milongal: Although the Styn name thing was before my time, my familiarity with its verse 70 connection is pretty fair by now. You’ll probably see the potential for Alf’s own hand being likely for the strangely installed and hued, upper case un-attached E. On page 11 of the Boxall archival service record file, you will find an example of his letter E, from a 70’s request for unentitled medals; the pointer being “East Coast Waters”.
Thanks JS. Do you think he wrote the whole thing, or just the E ?
Using the same page you mention, there are some similarities in the hands:
S in Swore vs September
y in Styn vs July
P in Penitence vs Primary
b in but vs by
the high reaches of lower case p’s and d’s
lower case n’s vs Darwin
But I do see some differences too (I think the t’s are not the same)….
Incidentally, stumbled across this, and it made me chuckle…..even the shapes of the letters are quite similar (I’m implying copied, no suggestion that it’s genuine):
https://briansprediction.com/displayimage.php?album=106&pid=87959#top_display_media
I wonder where various tamamshud threads were at in April 2013….
How is it possible, based on the the Willen Styn thread lead in, that when Alfred Boxall, according to Feltus, met “the nurse” in 1944, she knew that he already had two kids by wife Susie (Dulcie nee Smith). From his service records there was but one female child named Isobel born 14/6/44 and no mention at all of another named Leslie. Irrespective of whether or not GF got the year wrong ie. ’44 for ’45, or “the nurse” got the numbers wrong, there seems to be no accounting for any Leslie unless that was a pet name for little Isobel, In his UM book Gerry speaks of having had a long chat with daughter Leslie over a nice ‘cuppa’ about her dad’s past life to her knowledge. So someone with the true facts may like to sort this out for the record.
In a recent more in depth browsing through my Unknown Man, the Boxall’s second child, born 14/6/44 is confirmed as being Leslie and not Robyn, who does not get a Gurnsey at all, notwithstanding that the former is mentioned as an addition. And yet in Lieutenant Boxall’s OR of S, which is undated, though probably 1943, only one, unamed child, born on the above date is listed. Then we see on his 1948 demobilisation card that two kids (no details) are recorded which must surely mean that Robyn was the second child. It’s possible that another baby had not survived, though that would still not resolve the issue completely. I guess it’s not deemed a pressing issue at this late juncture.
(not unusually) going out on a bit of a limb…..
What if it doesn’t end in ‘n’. Zooming in it doens’t really compare nicely to the ‘n’ at the end of ‘when’. It also occurs to me that signatures often trail off a little….so the surname ‘Stynes’ has niggled me as an option in the past.
As has I think been mentioned meany times, other than the ‘E’ the signature is lighter than the rest of the verse – this might be a lighter touch on a signature (or something), but it does make the signature look distinct from the rest of the page.
But all that aside, zooming in makes me almost think the first character after ‘y’ or ‘j’ is an ‘s’ followed by another character I can’t make out (but doesn’t really look like a vowel).
that would leave a really stranje surname like Stys_ or Stijs_….
Did you try translating ‘Styn’ to Cyrillic. It could be a mis-translation or a truncation
of sh/sch/shch found in Cyrillic.
First post of a long-time, if intermittent, lurker. There’s a lot of chat about the ‘E’ of JEstyn being added later in this thread, but there is another possibility: given its a consistent weight and form to the rest of the text, ‘E’ might actually be the signature of the original purchaser of this second hand book? Signing a personal text like this with just an initial seems quite plausible.
If we take Alf and Jo’s statements at face value then handing over your second-hand book to a guy you’ve just met to read as he goes off abroad also makes reasonable sense. It may be the ‘J styn’ was added to personalise what would otherwise be a meaningless ‘E’. It would also explain why the E is capitalised and the s small (and also a completely different form to the small ‘s’s in the rest of the text).
Unfortunately, it’s an explanation that doesn’t lend itself to spies and microdots, and it means that the text wasn’t selected by Jo so it’s not very romantic. But I think its worth considering as a hypothesis – unless it’s stated somewhere that Jo bought the book new. Then it would be back to the drawing board for me.
Great site BTW. I’ve enjoyed lurking, but had to make the suggestion.
Jamie: re your evidence that Jestyn’s parting ROK gift to Alf was second hand? All our previous information, including new purchase details courtesy Gerry Feltus suggest that it was an uncirculated copy and bore a 1944 publishcation date to attest. Where did your contrary information come from? I can’t find reference of same anywhere in our related threads.
….bar one from memory. I recall posting on Jim, AB’s fellow 13th Water Transport member who underwent Malay language training in mid ’44, hence the possibilty that Alf’s ROK copy could have derived from there, bypassing the nurse altogether. Interestingly the soldier in question later worked as a tech with post war OTC and their surplus ‘you beaut’ BP equipment.
Thats interesting, John. According to The Western Australian (Nov ’47), Hamilton conceived the Malay version of the Rubaiyat during his 24 years working there (in the Police and Political Intelligence Bureau, no less). From the same article: “ [it] was welcomed by the educated residents of that country”; so maybe it was never printed for widespread circulation in Australia. By the time of the second press he was a lecturer in Malay at Sydney University (1943) and a big proponent of soldiers having a smattering (2-300 words) of the language before going on active service.
I can only find the book itself advertised in Melbourne’s specialist “Foreign Library and Bookshop” (1945, doesn’t say which edition), but Craftsman Bookshop were certainly advertising foreign language texts right next to them in the Sydney Morning Herald in 1943. So it seems it was possible to get hold of the text, but not easy.
Jamie: yes we’ve covered Hamiton’s life and times quite extensively including his move to WA in company with the Marshall’s Joseph, Sam etc. and yes the 2nd pressing of the dual language ROK apparently has the Craftsman book Shop of Martin Place Syd. stamp impressed. At least one short course was undertaken in June 1944 at SME Liverpool when the AIF were contemplating re’taking Malay from the nips.
Just for my own clarity, John: by May ’43, in theory, couldn’t any soldier do a university course through the AAES (including Malay)? I read by Nov ’44 over 40,000 were enrolled (in all courses, obvs, not just Malay). Meanwhile the Extension Board in Sydney had been teaching free courses in Malay since late 1941 – many of those enrolled were “servicemen from around the Sydney area”. It’s inconceivable that Hamilton wasn’t involved in both these activities given he was an Extension Board lecturer in Malay at the University and was promoting AIF servicemen learning Malay in the press during 1943. What lecturer then (or now) wouldn’t suggest his own text as recommended reading? And why wouldn’t AAES reprint a popular and ready-prepared book as a syllabus text? It would certainly explain why the second edition wasn’t in general circulation. It would also mean the bookshop label actually attests to it being sold secondhand at least once. I don’t know about the Craftsman Bookshop, but some of their competitors in Sydney definitely had secondhand departments around 44/45.
I still maintain the unusual signature is most likely due to the alteration of an existing inscription simply signed ‘E’. ‘JEstyn’ probably originated from some casual joke during conversation: “so which is it, Jess or Tina?”; “Both!”; “so Jestyn, then?”… etc. I think something similar was even suggested by some of Jo’s ex-work colleagues, wasn’t it?
Jamie: A well constructed assessment of Malay teacher Hamilton’s potential worth to allied planning for future incursions into areas under Japanese control since 41/42 ie., former priority Dutch East Indies and Federation of Malaya possessions. It’s highly likely that he ran the Bahasa/Malay ’44 courses for the Engineer Corps at SME Liverpool, perhaps grounds for his transfer from Perth to the military planning hubs of the Eastern states. Of course A.W. Hamilton also compiled other dual language instructional books during his long service as Government translator of Chinese criminal gang codes in Singapore and the like; so a fellow of many talents. It’d be interesting to find out more about the man to assess what sort of people were using his language texts &c to make a more than mere casual connection to JEstyn’s parting gift to Alf if at all possible after all this time. I recall several other works accredited to him are listed on Australian National Archives, as are two other interesting unpublished treastise by his lesser known colleague Samual Marshal. Not sure about the JEstyn signature but then again I’m on a different agenda so you’ll forgive me along those lines of contention.
A fellow of many talents, indeed. I guess you’ve read the piece by Brewster and Reid (Emeritus Professor at ANU) on AW Hamilton and the origins of Indonesian studies in Australia? It’s available for download on research.net. Their interviews suggest that Asiapacific publishing were mostly involved with contract printing for authors or institutions during the 1940s. They surmised that an over-enthusiastic Hamilton commissioned the prints himself on the assumption he could off-load them in the future. I have to say, my limited trawl through Singapore’s version of Trove means I’ve found data that contradicts a number of their other statements, but it’s an interesting thought. (Again, if true, this means a bookshop purchase would most likely be secondhand).
Chúc mừng năm mới to all from Can Tho Vietnam with best wishes for the year of the Tiger.
Peteb: Therein seems to lie an impasse of proportions unlikely for to achieve resolution any time soon, if at all. Your resolute faith in all that SM author Feltus espauses is commendable though simplistic and nieve imo. Gerry’s needlessly drawn out beach death mystery drama seems to have satisfied the whims of a certain like type, with a bunch of unlikely characters ie., nurse Theresa & her much maligned partner Prestige Johnson, Lietenant Alfred Boxall unsung AIF war hero plus the Adelaide city businessman and cade game changer Ronald Francis with his unlocked little blue coupe double parked in Jetty Road. A bridge to far and far to long for this old troll I’m loath to say but, for fear of undeserved admonishment I shall not mention the author’s very own plain as day confession to leg pulling, in blazing highlighted upper case, not once mind, but thrice which doesn’t appear to have been picked up by you or your unwavering flock of ‘Unknown Man’ deviants.
I’ve noticed of late that the undisputed leading fiction based Pavel Fedosimov/SM soviet cold war espionage blog BS/TS seems to have gone soft on claims to being the Aust/UK arm of US based intelligence old boys club AfIO. Could it be that upon reappraisal of credentials they were found to be wanting. I also note that BS/TS home site seems to have cahcelled it’s heartfelt invite to all Aboriginal & Torres Straits Islander vistitors of sober habits. Crikeys nearly forgot that the biggest site promotion blurb ie., SM’s death site being located within the drop zone of an atomic test range and a nest of related soviet eavesdroppers located but 400 yards from X marks the spot is gone too. Perhaps our erswhile? colleague Pete Bowes might make inquiries with blog master Cramer in respect of the aforesaid doubts, that is if the’re still on amicable terms.
Anyone remember JEStyn’s pet name at RNSH, almost sure it was Tina. Suppose then it’s worth noting that a certain Jessie Christina Thomson was on the 1941 list of general nurses. She was then living at a Neutral Bay address so chances are she also worked at RNSH…as did her namesake way back 1921. Small world what?
Don’t let the fact that a sixty year old Nurse named Jess Thomson of RNSH does not figure readily into our equasion. It’s at least feasable that she was Scottish born Matron Thomson who had also ran a tight ship at Balaclava hospital during Sister Jessie Read Harkness’ (GC’s diversion ploy) tenure there in the thirties. Co-incidence strikes with gay abandone it seems but, supposing a young waif from up Newcastle way, without clear familial links had chosen then Sister Thomson to be her role model upon arrival at RNSH in 1940, entering into her indenture under that name. Not so far fetched really and that could well account for a nurse Jessica Harkness drawing blanks by all efforts attempted thus far.
That’s a nice find on the Christina….
There’s a lot about Harkness/Thomson that to me reeks of taking on other people’s personalities….
Perhaps she knew ‘tina, but wasn’t ‘tina. Maybe (Prosper) Thomson was a lucky coincidence – or she even sought him out to legitimately become Jessie Thomson.
(Speculation only – and I don’t even know if I can quite subscribe to it)
But suppose we go a step further. What if the real ‘tina interacted with Boxall, and either Harkness wasn’t there or was “the friend”. In this scenario, Harkness didn’t know Boxall, but knew about the gifting of the Rubaiyat. She’s in fact not trying to lead police up the garden path, but rather trying to solidify her identity as Jessie Thomson….It also *might* explain why she tried to explain “Jestyn” away as being a hybrid of Jessie and Tina – she didn’t know about the inscription and the reason why it was “Jestyn” – and hearing it phonetically quickly came up with such an explanation (not realising it was a ‘y’ not an ‘i’).
milongal: I’ve often thought along similar lines, that Jo from Glenelg was acting on behalf of an associate who had given her the full guts on the Boxall business and let her then take on that role with a confident aire. I’m sure I mentioned a Jimmy Hawkins of 13 WT who did the Hamilton ROK inspired Malay course in ’44. His wife Joyce had left him by ’48 and returned to her home in the Adelaide foothills where incidently, the Thomsons later settled to raise their kids.
I’d say, in light of everything we know, assume to know and just as likely don’t know worth a damn PB, we may well be faced with the real probability, that Jessica @ Jessie @ Tina @ Jess @ Jo, was born into the then Newcastle based Harkness family but, not raised by them. By the time she had moved in with Prosper, she may for all we know, have been known as Thomson since soon after her hand over to those who raised her. No real shock, horror or even coincidence with two people with such a common old Scottish handle coupling is there now?…
Commenter ‘daughter of Jestyn’ said on December 24, 2013 at 1:13 am
(…) Prosper was known as George since a schoolboy.
My parents were married in 1950. My mother changed her name in Perth to Thomson following the birth of my brother. (…)
Why Perth?
Why not Perth Pat? after all, that’s where her mother changed her name!
Was there no other nurse Harkness other than the 1921 one – because she didn’t qualify because she was pregnant. I thought that was the known plot.
She was lying she was nurse Harkness because she knew they might find her namesake in a casual record search. But it was why she had to work in the children’s hospital not a proper one because she didn’t have the paper qualification. She probably advertised in the yellow pages to earn some side income. Perhaps Carl contacted her for some meds.
Jo changed her name in Perth following the birth of Robin in Adelaide, meaning after July 1947 (is there a birth record for him?) and now we know that Carl could have been living in Cottesloe after he left Dorothy around the same time, so another coincidence? Were Jo’s parents living in Perth? Is it easier to apply for a deed poll in Perth? Why Perth?
There were 2 Jessie Harknesses that got confused into this at some point – and at least 1 was a Sister, and both with connections to regional SA. The Sister turned out to be a midwife. One was Jessica Muir Harkness of Port Lincoln, and I can’t find the other one (but I had a funny idea the name was really close, and the middle initial was ‘E’ as well), and I think aside from a slight difference in age she ultimately fell out of the conversation because she twaddled off to Ol Blighty and was never mentioned again – I think that was about 1937. She seemed quite prominent in local papers before then – so the idea of borrowing (or adapting) an identity probably bares some thought.
I thought there had been quite a long discussion about it some time back – but the fact I can’t seem to find the thread suggests otherwise.
Julian: there were at least two other Sister Jessie (Jessica) Harknesseses in S.A. Australia prior to our Jo’s arrival and your Jessie Muir was Thomson nee McFarlane of P.L.was never a nurse and not nee Harkness in the first place. One was born in Scotland and eventually went home, the other (Jessie Reid see this thread) went to Spain in the mid thirties, both being much older than our fake sister J. E. Thomson of 90A Moseley St.1947/48. The RNSW nurse Harkness who qualified in 1946 was a Jessie and not our Jo, there being no record of a Jessica that we have been able to find. My inquiries indicate that she may have nursed elswhere ie., Newcastle, North Sydney or, as some suggest a nurses aid in rural Victoria. I can’t see any point for us to continually regurgitate this ancient stuff that is of no relevance except as a diversion ploy for Derek’s dedicated FB friends.
@julian,
I researched JH (UK) quite some time ago. It was the doctor/surgeon with her on the ship I was interested in at the time. I think he was on her ship as she travelled to the UK. I have forgotten his name but I believe he had a Scottish relative (possibly) with a book publishing company. It was what made me think of the ROK.
Can I remember his name – No…
I think he was a surgeon in N. Africa as well.
At the time I was trying to link the surgeon with a German Rudolf Mons (who I thought was SM)..thinking he may have given his poetry book to a smart German patient. Somewhat like the English patient with a nurse reading a burns patient poetry…I had the idea he returned to thank nurse Harkness (she was in the phone book) and got the wrong one.
If she changed her name following Robin’s birth she was still Jessie Ellen Harkness in 1946, not Jessica.