…though not at all from the nice Frascati DOC we were pleasantly plied with at lunchtime on the Friday.
No: rather, my head is still buzzing from the giant mass of tangled, fascinating stuff that came my way – some from the presentations, but a lot from conversations and spirited debates. So alas, anyone hoping that I’ll post some kind of a conference-in-a-nutshell micro-report here is going to be sadly disappointed: it’s going to take me months to work through it all, there’s just too much.
So, in no particular order, what you broadly have to look forward to is:
* My reflections on the radiocarbon dating
* Voynich and the Rosicrucians (yes, really!)
* Rich SantaColoma’s ‘Optical Instruments Hypothesis’ (but radically revisited)
* Claudio Foti’s new ‘Poggio Bracciolini’ hypothesis
* Rafal Prinke’s news on Baresch & Sinapius
* Rene Zandbergen’s discussion of Carl Widemann
* Johannes Albus’s new angle on f116v’s maddening marginalia
* Why I think Voynich statistics are a roadblock, not a bridge
* The three next big challenges – scans, error rates, language mapping
* etc
PS: having said all that, if you were there and have any neat photographs you’d like to share, please upload them to one of the many filesharing sites out there and send me through a link to them, as it would be quite nice to put together a bit of a visual walkthrough here. (Thanks Karsten for your photos!)
Nick, I’m sending you an invitation to ‘Findings’. Just in case it could save you time.
Yay!
Were you able to connect with Reed Johnson?
Nick, this is not a ‘reading list’ –
I shouldn’t presume. But because I know you’re pressed, and a closed blog’s ‘search’ box doesn’t work, I’ve done a quick skim. Perhaps some of these include useful matter..
Bracciolini:
‘Chatting with Poggio Bracciolini’ #1: http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/chatting-botany-with-poggio-bracciolini.html
‘Chatting with Poggio Bracciolini’ #2: http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/chatting-botany-with-poggio-bracciolini.html
————-
‘Bathy-‘ section:
The ploughed sea and its ‘nymphs’ – mentioning Dalche’s work:
http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/ploughed-sea-and-its-nymphs.html
Romaniots, Rahdanites (about correspondences of stones with stars) re ‘bathy-‘ section:http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/stones-and-stars-2-romaniots-and.html
———-
Majorcans and Genoese (pertains to Vinland map and fol.86 etc.) http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/majorcan-and-genoese.html
——————
Language and script:
Encryptions systems east of Suez http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/eastern-cipher-methods.html
About why Voynich may lack an ‘x’ shape even if Greek, or anything of the type.
‘X read as A, t, th etc’: http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/x-read-as.html
Medieval Linguae Francae: http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/medieval-linguae-francae-refs.html
————
Maps –
(i) sites of interactions between Byzantium, Venetians and Genoese.
http://anothervoynich.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/asia-minor-again.html
Hi Diane,
I didn’t get into your blog…
Claudio
Nick, Diane:
I’ll be checking my notes re Volsci/Velitrae handwriting/script. A couple of weeks ago I pointed out the cyrillic “C” letter that looks like a “sickle”. That letter and small “p” letter are scattered thoughout the Vms.
The fact that BOTH of those letters stand out amongst the “gibberish” of the rest of the script is a “tell” to that script’s translation. The fact that they are “backwards” is also a clue: Volscian and its sub-group Velitraen/Velitrian entire sentence structure was written from right to left.
Because my eyesight is deteriorating rapidly, I am unable to download Boenicke’s great file ms 408 in large enough print to do a preliminary translation. So, I still can’t offer any proof that the VMs is NOT a cipher/code, but rather the offerings of a very well educated person versed in history and medical sciences. NO, I am NOT reinforcing the idea that Bacon or Dee had anything to do with the VM’s creation!
The one “passing” idea/”wondering thought I’ve had is: Might there have been some link, over several generations, between Johannes Marcus Marci and the Marcellus Marci (Coriolanus) of ancient Rome?
Diane,
I’ve tried several of the links you’ve posted herein. I think what Claudio is trying to say is that the links aren’t working because it is being required of us to sign in with our blog ID/password/whatever.
I, for one, am clueless — but still very much interested in reading your offerings!
Nick,
So, we might be coming around full circle re the Rosicrucians? Several months ago I posted a Rosicruician webpage to you because it had a segment (I now can’t recall the subject) that would have appealed to you and your discussion at that time. Who knows, it might still be of interest to you? I hope you can find it!
bdid1dr: I was hoping to go, but wasn’t able to make it in the end. Nick–great list, am looking forward to hearing more. The Rosicrucian angle (Book M?) is quite interesting, though quite speculative, just the thing for that wanna-be Dan Brown novel I’ll write. 🙂
Reed: there’s a whole lot of evidence out there which nobody seems to have put together, but the more I think about it the bigger it all gets. Maybe I should write “The Curse of the Rosicrucians”… 😉
Hey Nick! I am doubly disappointed I missed talking with you at the conference. Thought I could get some uni funding but didn’t happen. Regarding the Rosicrucians, Rich and I had an off-list email conversation about that a year or so ago. It’s a bit screwy, but who knows, maybe the founding story is true? The carbon date, the Occitan, the exotic compendium of Eastern knowledge, an enciphered book of mysteries… The problem, as far as I understand, is the lack of Rosicrucian symbols etc, though one could always argue these were later embellishments. Anyway, maybe I will write a thriller to add to your list of bad Voynich novels 😉
For all of my blog posts on the subject of a possible Rosicrucian connection, you can use this link:
http://proto57.wordpress.com/category/rosicrucianism/
Of course this concept will also appear in the published version of my talk, as it was part of the presentation. Thanks, Rich.
These posts point out that I suspect a Rosicrucian influence on the Voynich, through the interest they had in proto-scientific work and devices… such as optics. In my talk, I pointed out that I consider the Chymical Wedding of the RC movement as a possible parallel work, that the fictional tomb of Rosenkruez (sp?) contained optical devices, and that one of the probable founders of the RC movement, Andreas, also wrote a Utopian fiction, “Christianopolis”. The influences and interests of Rosicrucianism, and the people involved in propogating those ideas, are core to my theories.
Rich: don’t worry, there’s practically no overlap between my Rosicrucian-Voynich ideas and your Rosicrucian-Voynich ideas. 🙂
It would certainly be interesting to hear your thoughts, when you get around to it. I know that many have suspected RC influence, in different ways… and then, the imagery is not majorly supportive of it being a primarily RC document. So as always it leaves us guessing in the end.
I may as well add here, that it was really wonderful meeting you in person, and I hope we have a chance to split a pie and beer again, soon…
Nick, Diane, Reed, Rich:
I’m posting a link here (and will give Nick a “heads-up” on his Conference page). You can all ignore this if it happens to be “old news”. I’d try the link, myself, but I really don’t have credentials that would enhance my credibility. Oh, the fact that these professor’s have access to manuscripts, Beneventan manuscripts! Pontifical Institute of Medieval Studies:
Professor Virginia Brown:
[email protected]
Professor Roger E. Reynolds
[email protected]
The website link, for both of them, is PIMS: Monumenta Liturgica Beneventana
http://www.pims.ca/research/mlb.html
Confused? Me? I AM on Nick’s conference page. I’m just kinda frustrated and trying to be cautious in my approach to scholarly professionals. Yes, Nick, primarily, premierly, you!
Follow-up to my comments 1 and 12, this page:
Different monasteries (still Benedictine) but both with distinctive lettering and use of the backward cyrillic C and backward lower-case “p” — and the “&” letter: Segni (in the Volsci Mountains): compare with Monte “C”.
Several days ago, I referred y’all to one (and only one) photograph of a Beneventan manuscript that had all the “tells” I’ve mentioned. Unfortunately, it is a “for sale” book that would not let me print a copy of that very rare example of Benedictine monastery hand-written script.
Knights Templar and Knights of the Rosy Cross. They each had their own “neighborhood” in Jerusalem.
THE Shroud: Never mind all the nonsense of it being a relic of Christ’s crucifixion. That piece of cloth was a relic of the torture of the last leader/s) of the Knights Templar. They were both burned at the stake by the order of King Philip (the Fair) of France.
AND never mind that idiot woman who was hired by the Vatican to research their archive in the hopes of validating the authenticity of the “Shroud”. They ended up obfuscating on the whole authenticity issue. They did admit, however, that the Pope during Philip the Fair’s reign was culpable in that dreadful occurence.
Rosicrucians: San Jose, California has a Rosicrucian museum. The museum has on display a piece of Egyptian linen cloth some 3,000 years old.
Hey, y’all, please don’t write me off as a complete lunatic with this next “finding” that has some significance to your recent meet in Frascati AND to the significance of some of the “stars/stripes/banners/horoscopes/astrology” that appear in the VM:
http://www.romeartlover.it/Storia23.html
I hope you haven’t already been there-done that!
Just got back to this post. Wanted to ask whether the reference to the ms as an “exotic compendium of Eastern knowledge” is a nod in the direction of my own research: if so, thank-you. First public acknowledgement ever. 🙂
– though of course to people living in the east, eastern knowledge isn’t exotic at all.
——–
Other posts about access to ‘Findings’ – my old research and -log. I closed it before the other blog was opened, to avoid confusion. During the course of the research (2009-2011), I explored numerous avenues which either led nowhere or failed to turn up enough points in common with the ms imagery to justify any argument about them.
Sadly, one does have to open a Blogger account, I think, to get any access at all.
About Rosicrucians – they were pretty keen on geometrical (ruler and compass) designs weren’t they? Big point of difference.
My earlier post re the Aldobrandini “stars and stripes” was meant to point out the similarity to the drawings of naked women (in the VM) who appear to be waving striped banners and stars attached to ribbons. Yes, I’m aware that the paintings to which I refer have a more current date than the “sketches” in the VM. All the more reason for me to point out those features in the VM as possibly being notes and sketches for future artwork.
It’s rather disappointing that nothing more has been heard about the Conference – apparently, Nick, you are the only person who has shared your presentation.
Recently, Rene mentioned that Wolfgang Lechner said something about the pharma section – that its more complicated vessels resembled near-eastern ‘samovars’.
There’s nothing but a paragraph – not even a full abstract – available on voynich.nu and even here you’ve said little.
Almost a year later, I know, but can you recall much of what was said? Is it a case of keeping research from the public pending formal publication?
I’ve recently come to feel a little more sympathy with that attitude, I must say.
Diane
A note on Prinke’s source (in 2000)
Looks as if it’s from the old mailing list, dated 15thApril 2002:
“I have just come back from Warsaw where – having some time – I went to a library which I had known had what is the best monograph on Marci, namely:
Servit, Z.: Jan Marek Marci z Kronlandu, zapomenuty zakladatel fyziologie a mediciny, Bratislava 1989.
..It seems to indicate that Baresch had already died by 1662…
Servit knew only [about the Vms] what was in Newbold (whom he quotes) and does not link Bares to VMS. He also says that Marci’s valuable library was inherited by his [Marci’s] son Jan Ludwik.
The rest of what Prinke says there is incorporated into the biography on Rene’s Z’s web page.
*blast* – should be ‘in 2002’
Diane: Rafal presented significantly updated information at the conference last year, which is why it would be nice if it were to be written up properly.
Nick,
Perhaps Mondragone meet should have been described as a seminar, rather than a Conference.
Pity – I mean, I can hardly add a footnote which gives a powerpoint file as its reference, can I?
Thank god you publish –
Diane
Hi Nick
This seemed a good heading under which to place a new headache for the ‘It’s a Latin Christian work, so it is’ camp.
As I signalled about four years ago, I think that the care with which the star-holding ‘nymphs’ barrels are drawn mean that they are not meant for barrels, but for small towers of stone – differentated by patterns to indicate different types of stone.
Medieval literature sees a fairly comfortable habit among some of associating a plant, a stone and a star, though in the limited astronomy of medieval Europe all knowlege of stars reduces to the 12 constellations of the ecliptic, and thus comes to be termed by the general public ‘astrology’.
However, since the Vms imagery has been terribly kind in pointing consistently to origins in the Hellenistic period, and regions of its continuing influence (4thC BC – 3rdC AD), I can at last get to discussing the works of that period which refer to the intersection of time, plants and stones without such limits as were imposed by the Roman empire’s invention of the 12-signs system that included the scales as a formal member of their zodiac. (This doesn’t mean a scales hadn’t been seen in the heavens before. The Romans made it an official and obligatory unit among the 12 is all).
So, with regard to Baresch’s good man, I have at last been able to introduce the figure of Thessalos of Tralles to the Voynich mailing list. I expect I will hear, in return, either that “the list” knows this chap and everything which I might ever say about relevance to the Vms or, alternately, that I am wearing my fools-cap in daring to refer to Egypt and the pre-Christian era. Or both.
So I thought I’d spread the pain, and refer here to a very good study of said Thessalos, his story, manuscripts, contents and various textual and other controversies.
I’m very happy to say I agree with almost every word this author writes:
Ian S. Moyer, ‘Thessalos and the Magic of Empire’ Chapter 4 [in his] Egypt and the Limits of Hellenism Cambridge; New York: Cambridge University Press, 2011
It’s a very good thing for me that although i first raised the general theme in 2010, I’ve only just begun treating it in detail. Moyer’s research allows me to add a quote and footnote instead of attempting the exhausting business of reducing an area of scholarly investigation to a brief summary on my blog or an even briefer and inevitably controversial post to the mailing list.
Needless to say, though, I’m holding back a bit, or next week we’ll find someone re-presenting the results of my own years’ hard work as if they’d plucked it from the air by divine inspiration or ‘common knowledge’.. this backed up by some recent wiki-article of their own creation.
Sorry about the cynical end-note, but you know how these things go.
Cheers.
Hey,
Hear you guys are doing a conference again soon, with YouTube links time. Good one if true. Look forward to seeing the link.