A few days ago, I was trying to track down three Kean girls who went to school together at CABRA, because at least one of them shared an address with one of the two Kean(e) men whose names Byron Deveson had turned up while diligently trawling through the South Australian Police Gazettes.
However, these three girls were proving hard to trace, even though I knew their first names (May, Marjorie, and Patricia) and one of their dates of birth (May, born 20th May 1922). Oddly, all the genealogy websites and databases were proving unhelpful.
Marjorie Agnes Spooner (née Kean)
Well… after raking through Trove a thousand times or more, I finally found that Marjorie Kean’s middle name might well be Agnes. There are two listings where this appears, firstly on 31st Jan 1936 in the Southern Cross:
DOMINICAN CONVENT SCHOOLS / ST. MARY’S DOMINICAN COLLEGE, CABRA. PAST SCHOLARS. […]
Marjorie Agnes Kean. — English, French, Book-keeping, Music, Shorthand.
Or alternatively in 26th January 1937’s Adelaide ‘Tizer, though noting that she didn’t achieve the minimum five passes needed:
Kean, Marjorie Agnes. H[istory] G[eo]g[raphy] T[y]p[ing]
Now, if I’ve got that right, Marjorie Agnes would have been born in 1921 (i.e. a year older than May Kean). And that quickly links us to a MyHeritage listing for a Marjorie Agnes Spooner:
Marjorie Agnes Spooner (born Kean) was born on [month day] 1921, at [birth place], to Thomas Joseph Kean and Eileen Jessie Kean (born McPhee). Thomas was born on April 10 1898, in Northgate, Victoria, Australia. Eileen was born on April 10 1896, in Wandiligong. Marjorie married Alfred Raymond Spooner. Alfred was born on November 3 1913, in Birmingham, England. Marjorie passed away in 2010, at age 88 at [death place].
Patricia Jean Cottle (née Kean)
This in turn quickly led to a different myHeritage page, this time for a Patricia Jean Cottle (née Kean):
Patricia Jean Cottle (born Kean) was born on [month day] 1919, at [birth place] to Thomas Joseph Kean and Eileen Jessie Kean (born McPhee). Thomas was born on April 10 1898, in Northgate Victoria. Eileen was born on April 10 1896, in Wandiligong. Patricia had 2 siblings. Patricia married Victor McDonnell Cottle. Victor was born on July 3 1913, in Crystal Brook SA. Patricia passed away on [month day] 2004, at age 84 at [death place].
Feeding Patricia’s name back into Trove yielded a single hit in 24th Jan 1935’s Adelaide ‘Tizer: “Bookkeeping, Candidates under sixteen years of age […] 4. Kean, Patricia Jean (St Mary’s Priory, Cabra).” Which would of course nicely fit her 1919 date of birth.
Thomas Joseph Kean
We started out looking for a Thomas John Kean, who was a clerk from Forestville born very close to 1898 (as reported in the Police Gazette and the Adelaide ‘Tizer). But what we instead found was a Thomas Joseph Kean, a man from Forestville born in 1898.
Might these two Thomas J Keans be the same person? Errrm… they/he certainly could be: or if they are not, it would certainly be a slightly jarring coincidence.
Note that we were at the same time also looking for a John Joseph Kean, who was a clerk similarly born in 1898, but from Union Street, Dulwich: and I idly wondered whether those two Keans might actually have been the same person. Now we arguably have the situation where we have a third name – Thomas Joseph Kean – to add to the mix. Might all three of these Keans have been the same man? Police gazettes reports often include (sometimes long) lists of aliases people operate under, so having three different (but subtly similar) names should hardly be a big surprise.
Perhaps all of this will become clearer when we find out more about the life of Thomas Joseph Kean born April 10 1898 in Northgate Victoria. So now it’s over to you all, what information is out there waiting to be known?
Alternatively, perhaps one of you will now have more luck tracking down May Kean now that we (almost certainly) know the name of her parents,
Thomas Joseph Kean and Eileen Jessie Kean (born McPhee). Even though her sisters (it would seem almost certain) have both passed away (in 2004 and 2010), May Kean herself may still be alive, who can tell?
Kean Family Tree, First Attempt
Thomas Joseph Kean, born 10th April 1898 (ref 13241/1898), Northgate, Victoria. (Parents: Thomas Francis Kean and DEELY)
–married:Eileen Jessie McPhee, born 10th April 1896 in Wandiligong, died 1976.
–and had three daughters:
#1 Patricia Jean Kean, born 1919, died 2004.
She married Victor McDonnell Cottle, born 3rd July 1913 in Crystal Brook SA (son of George Henry Victor COTTLE and Lucieton Robe WHITINGTON).
They had two daughters, born 8th February 1944 and 20th October 1945.
#2 Marjorie Agnes Kean, born 1921, died 2010.
She married Alfred Raymond Spooner, born 3rd November 1913 in Birmingham, England; died 1979.
They had a daughter and two sons, born 18th February 1943, 30th June 1945 ( Mark Alfred Spooner), and 17th March 1948 respectively.
#3 May Kean, born 20th May 1922.
No further information.
Update: a revised version of the Kean family tree is here.
Note that Eileen Jessie Kean seems to have died in 1976 (according to genealogysa.org.au, there’s a death notice in the Adelaide Advertiser, but it’s behind a paywall).
Similarly, genealogysa.org.au has a 2009 death notice for Marjorie Agnes (Marj) Spooner (also in the ‘Tizer, and behind the same paywall).
Is anybody here a genealogysa member? I’m happy to pay the member’s price to see these documents (unless anybody has access to the Adelaide Advertiser archives by others means?) because they may well have more current family information, but the non-member’s price is double. 🙁
Note that Victoria has its own online searchable BDM index – https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/ – which yields the following hit:
Family name – KEAN
Given name(s) – Thos Jos
Event – Birth
Parent 1’s family name at birth / Spouse’s family name – DEELY
Parent 2’s given name / Spouse’s given name – Thos Francis
Registration year – 1898
Registration number – 13241/1898
I just found Marjorie Agnes Kean’s war-time engagement announcement in Trove (6th Sep 1941), it had failed to appear in my previous searches thanks to some dodgy OCR:
What happened next appears in the 29th Feb 1943 Adelaide Advertiser:
This trend then continued on 19th March 1948:
Alfred Raymond Spooner next appears in 5th Oct 1951 with a dangerous dog:
There’s a 1940 picture of Alfred Spooner with the rest of his family in uniform here. He may not have had the most interesting of wars, though:
In a similar vein, the 17th Feb 1944 ‘Tizer has an announcement re Patricia Cottle (nee Kean):
And again, the 22nd Oct 1945 Advertiser has another announcement:
There are very few references to Thomas Francis Kean in Trove. But perhaps this one from 24th January 1934 relates to his wife and children:
“KEAN -On the 23rd January Mary Ann widow of the late Thomas Francis Kean loved mother of Jack Tom Chris Dolly and Gertie Kean aged 65 years -Rest in peace.”
So perhaps her maiden name was Mary Ann Deely.
Findmypast has a cemetery record for Thomas Joseph Kean born 1898:
Surname – Kean
First names – Thomas Joseph
Birth – 1898
Death – 1968
Year – 1968
Record Set – South Australia Deaths 1842-1972
Location – Belair, Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Is this the man we are looking for here, one of Byron’s two men?
The Library of SA (which hosts the S&Ms) seems to have dates of death (though limited other detai from 1971l – but it might help if you’re looking for an obit elsewhere). Here’s a few that might be of interest:
Kean Eileen Jessie 1976-08-14
Kean John Joseph (Jack) 2007-02-02
Kean Joseph 1982-07-21
Keane James Joseph 2002-07-05
Keane John 1982-02-19
Keane John (Jack) 2005-06-27
Spooner Alfred Raymond (Rip) 1979-04-11
Spooner Marjorie Agnes (Marj) 2009-10-08
There was a Thomas John and a Mary-Anne – but I think both were too recent to be relevant (TJ ~ 2012, and MA ~ 2007 – in a similar way, I think the John Joseph above might be a bit too recent to be interesting
And looking at Centennial park internement records:
Spooner, Agnes Marjorie 06/10/2009 North Plympton (Date of death listed different to the Savill index)
Spooner, Alfred Raymond Not Listed Cumberland Park
And the actual plot:
Spooner, Alfred Raymond 12 Apr 1979 Coffin Depth 2
Spooner, Agnes Marjorie 09 Oct 2009 Coffin Depth 1
No records found of Cottle (not in the Savill index., nor in the cemetries I’ve checked) – perhaps they moved interstate – or at leastg far enough away that they’re not in a city cemetry and weren’t remembered in the Tiser.
Centennial Park also has:
Keane, Alice May 02/01/2011 Old Reynella
Kean, Thomas Joseph 25/07/1968 Coromandel Vly
Keane, John James Not Listed Nth Adelaide
Keane, John James Joseph 10/08/1985 Underdale
Keane, Joseph 19/06/1963 Reynella
ACA (Adelaide Cemetries Authority) also has:
Keane John Joseph 20/01/1941 44 Years West Terrace Cemetery Catholic Western Ground, Row Number XX, Site number 210
Keane Mary Ann 03/01/1945 53 Years GOODWOOD West Terrace Cemetery Catholic Western Ground, Row Number XX, Site number 197
Kean John Joseph 31/01/2007 78 Years LARGS BAY, SA Cheltenham Cemetery Lawn, Drive D, Row 60, Site number 1189S
There’s also a Keane, Eileen Elsie that keeps cropping up – also down Reynella way)
(Coromandel Valley and Old Reynella are both fairly Southern suburbss, in case that means anyting)
A lot of them no doubt unrelated. Unfortunately we got a lot of common names going on – John, Thomas, Joseph….
milongal: thanks very much for all that, that’s really great! 🙂
I guess the issue now is whether the Thomas Joseph Kean born 1898 died 25/07/1968 Coromandel Valley buried in Centennial Park is or isn’t the Forestville Thomas Joseph Kean born 1898 I’ve been looking for. Lots of name overlapping going on, sure, but what can you do? 😉
As with everything, there are at least 2 Mays (possibly more)….we know May Kean b20 May 1922.
Not to be confused with
May Keane:
– Qualifying Certificate St Joseph’s Beulah Rd 1927 (I thought Qualifying cert was at the end of Primary School, but not certain, given the next point)
– Bridesmaid in the 1929 wedding of Myrtle NELSON and Lieut, Don TAYLOR (Guest List has Brigadier-General R.L Leane (i.e. Leane Senior) – but no Kean(e)s)
Also, in some of the articles about Pat Kean being on a junior committe (mentioned in a nother post) it lists her assistants as ‘Mary and May Kean’. If this were he sisters, shouldn’t it be ‘Marjorie and May’?
There’s also a Miss M A Kean who gives a generous donation to help build St Bernadette’s church and school in St Marys (vaguely in the same area (7km away) as Forrestville ) in1952 (this could, of course, be Marjorie Agnes – except she was married by then)
But before we get too excited about M A Kean there’s mention of an older Miss M A Kean sister of Ellen Mary WALLACE in 1950
(Joan Keane appears in a list of people providing stamps for missions in 1948) in an obituary in Port Pirie….
A Mr T Kean won second prize in an ‘Ugly Man’ competition in Whyalla in 1936 – and it also announces (if I understand it correctly)) that Kean, who works for Post Office is being moved from town……I’ll have to look back through my notes when TJ Kean first appears in Adelaide – whas it ’37?
Incidentally there’s an Elizabeth KEAN who crops up regularly related to Euchre. I wasn’t going to mention her, but at least once I noticed the name KEELEY in such an article
The Junior Catholic Women’s League in 1938 has a dance attended by Patricia Kean and 2 M Keans
1949 There’s a Joan Kean (Not Keane, this time) sending stamps for missions again – it shows address as Convent of Mercy, Parkside (so Sisters of Mercy might be another place to look) – I find this particularly interesting, TBH. The other Joan defeinitely uses KEANE not KEAN both before and after, and seems to have a close association with Dominicans, not Sisters of Mercy (May’s link to the Dominican’s is simply where she went to school, whereas Joan KEANE keeps cropping up in annual reports for Cabra and St Marys)
Leading Goalkickers of a Princes (Prince Alfred College) vs Rostrevor (1st XVIII) footy match has a T Kean in 1954 (A bit surprised at the result – only ever heard of Rostrevor losing to Sacred Heart)
There’s also 2 T Kean who helped prepare for a major procession in Port Augusta (it talks about the Diocese of Port Augusta and a Pro-Cathedral there – Not sure on the history, but I’m pretty sure these days it’s the Diocese of Port Pirie, and the fact it’s a Pro-Cathedral not a Cathedral would suggest it was a temporary arrangement).
Milongal: I suspect the reporter wrote down Marj but it ended being printed as Mary, happens all the time. :-/
More generally, I like the nitkeeper idea, it fits well with the funeral arrangements and matches the baccarat school lead. So I’m really all ears as to how we can make progress finding either or both of Byron’s 1898 Kean clerks.
The obituaries / family notices in the Tizer would seem to be the obvious place to start, but a genealogysa membership (though it would be good) seems a little bit beyond my meagre research means. I just wish there was a way to get access to the ‘Tizer’s archives by some other route. :-/
As an aside, having had a rummage down the back of the sofa, I’ve just paid my money and sent off a request to Genealogy SA for the two Adelaide Advertiser death notices I mentioned in comments here (Eileen Jessie Kean and Marjorie Agnes Spooner): I’ll update this page as soon as I hear back, hopefully with new information etc. I can barely wait! 🙂
Agnes May? most likely! May being recognised as a pet name for Mary, Margaret and Marjorie by extension ie. Marjorie being a derivitive of Margaret which is not such a stretch. I’d imagine that Agnes had been quietly put aside for all intents and purposes due to not being so popular by the roaring twenties era….So anyone been onto young Mark Alfred Spooner yet; word is he’s still out there and ready to dump all his family’s slightly soiled Kean baggage, and by the way, if you go down that winding trail, don’t get his dad Alf confused with his grandad Alf bn.1894 Birmingham UK.
frusconi: errrm… Mark Alfred Spooner was 21 in 1967 (according to the newspapers), whereas Marj and Rip Spooner’s son was born in 1948. Unless you know better?
And a bigger errrm to you my boy, but congrats to Marg and Rip (can’t say I know them) if you happen to meet or figure them in to the misc. inquiries…
Don’t forget to post the disclaimer now, we’re getting to be a little forgetful of late it seems. No need for apologies, after all we all have our limitations don’t we son.
frusconi: ah, yes, I did forget to say that I thought you might have been talking somewhat out of your arse. But thanks for reminding me, much appreciated. 😉
Not at at all and try to get a good rest, you’ll be needing it when you realize that you just wasted twenty nicker. Say hello to Peteb and Byron if you have the time. They’re checking on progress no doubt.
frusconi: maybe I’ve wasted my money this time, maybe I haven’t. But either way, at least I’m trying to make progress, however alien that may seem to some people.
Mark Alfred Spooner bn. 30/6/45. Put that in your progressive pipe and smoke it, if you still have the habit; failing that you could always shove it up yer clacker; that tends to remind one of what an arshole does with it’s spare time…We must be ever so polite in this old troll baiting new world order, mustn’t we now?..
frusconi: thank you, that would be a missing son. The Adelaide Chronicle 5th July 1945 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/93339734 says:
There you go, the world can be a better place afterall, so long as we are kind and respectful…Mind you, some will take us to the cleaners given the chance and so we must be ever on our guard when gift bearing geeks arrive from hostile quarters.
frusconi: so… how did you find out that Mark Alfred Spooner was born 30/6/45? And what about the other four Cottle / Spooner children that we (currently) know about?
I’d like to think a degree of dilingence in research and a bit of time to spare being down with gout, may have played a part. Note that on that same trove listing, Dohnt and Dicker, slightly unusual names that had come up in recent posts as being related to the Kean family, stood out. PS: Uraidla Cobbledick, Edith Braikspear and H F Nott were picked up on old Mrs. Dicker’s (L.J. Kean’s MiL) at Broken Hill in ’21 to provide some light relief. In the case of the Cottle/Spooner lasses, a bit of gut instinct and a few other slick observations coming off of the original informant information on ‘nit keeper’ and the Cabra Southern Cross inconsistencies……I’m going to put this recent thread down to a bad learning experience, ( bar my nit keeper) considering how it had arrived on our door step like a bright shining 1948 Adelaide sovereign; At the very same time at another place, it was decided that there was going to be an all out attack on the Keane gene pool for DNA matching; but not one word since, after we had snapped up the old grecian carrot dangling there before our greedy eyes, so how keene was that?…
25th December 1912 Adelaide Advertiser https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5359115 – though I’m not 100% convinced they didn’t actually mean “25th December, 1912”: and I think Lucieton Whitington’s middle name looks more like “Bobe” than the “Robe” suggested by Trove’s OCR:
COTTLE-WHITINGTON — On the 25th December, 1911, at the residence of the bride’s parents, by the Rev. E. W. Pitman, Victor, eldest son of Mrs. J. M. Cottle, Crystal Brook, to Lucieton Bobe, fourth daughter of Mr. R. McD. Whitington,
Brighton.
Interestingly (particularly for Byron Deveson, I hazard to guess), Victor McDonnell Cottle (who was Thomas Joseph Kean’s son-in-law) applied for a special prospector’s licence in September 1948 on a site in Tasmania:
03 Sep 1948 Burnie Advocate: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69181620
I can see what is now Mount Farrell Regional Reserve on the map, and I’m guessing (from the above description) that the river valley to the east / south-east of the main part of Mount Farrell is ‘Sterling Valley’.
I can also see “Mount Farrell Mine” listed on the web as “An abandoned lead-zinc mine, with structurally controlled massive sulphide bodies in altered Cambrian volcanics.” https://www.mindat.org/loc-28505.html However, it seems likely to me that this is talking about the mines described here http://www.utas.edu.au/library/companion_to_tasmanian_history/M/Mining.htm :
There had been political interest in the Mount Farrell area in 1946: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69065728
30th July 1947 Burnie Advocate: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69013668 had a prospector’s licence for (it sounds like) the same area by someone called Graham Hall:
6th August 1947 Burnie Advocate https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52600286 has a fairly substantial article, puffing up the area:
A bit confusing as to why we’re still going down this muddy old track, but I’ll play cunny funnies for the sake of unity….If Patricia’s hubby Victor came into the world on 3rd July, 1913, it seems more in keeping with moral propriety for an Xmas 1911 wedding of his mum & dad. This as opposed to a suggested same day hitching the following year, which might hint of naughty doings well before the day of dreaded bliss. Saying all that, would it also not be considered almost sacrilegious for a good Christian lass like Lucien to be tieing the knot on the eve a more heralded event like a boxing day cricket test at the MCG.
To put this latest line of inquiry into it’s proper perspective, seems daunting however, it may be that it was quite purposely intended to look that way…..A few weeks back a poster happened to mention the likely existence of SM related Victorian Police Gazettes cincerning a couple of gents who had once come forward to make a tentative SM identification…..Only days later in a dramatic shift our controller determined that we might like to rehash through specifics made by the unamed Lonsdale Street baccarat players concerning a ‘nit keeper’ briefly known to them back in 1945. This sudden enthusiasm was given more impetus with a gift lead purportedly connected, going back to the mid 30’s, all ado with a chap named Thomas Joseph Kean, who was fined for sharing a jug at a cafe adjoining Glenelg Soldiers Club with an old army cobber, contrary to licensing laws……This new breakthrough seemed to leave little doubt in the view of the instigator, that Tom, who liked to have a quiet snort out of hours, must assuredly identify him with the shy retiring now missing, Lonsdale Street nit keeper. Not only that, but a couple of years earlier or later as the case may be, it was revealed that the same offender was caught in fragrant delicto at an alleged SP betting establishment (a pub) with of all things an unlicensed radio. The alleged offence was subsequently found ‘not proven’ from memory, no matter to us for on this occasion he was using the alias John Joseph Keane, the deception being more or less confirmed by a clever math conversion, that produced a similar birth year for both T J Kean & J J Keane…..A rush to run both names to ground, has of late been compounded in that a local Ladies college seems to have unwittingly mis recorded some of the data on it’s past student register pertaining to three Kean sisters, Patricia, Mary and Margorie, perportedly daughters of the mysterious, as yet unidentified Thomas Keane, whom it is hoped will prove to be SM, if things pan out……Whilst the reader may now start to feel a sense of things having coming to-gether rather nicely, alas, the resultant well meaning efforts of an in the loop, Adelaide CBC old boy, to chase down the guilty by association young teenaged debutantes has unfornunately unraveled. Trouble being that by the early 1940’s with war at the door in Australia, the now mature Kean girl’s fancies started unerringly turning to love, result being the marriage of all three, thus ensuring the end of a fine old Paddy name. Worse still the talent now finds itself half way back to Issaac Walton’s time, fishing through totally confusing off bloodline family trails, including possible gang connected, knife weilding ruffians of the Spooner stamp and the Cottle’s lost Inca ‘Atahualapa’ silver mine near Crystal Brook S.A. etc. etc…..Where all this might lead is anyone’s guess, but one thing we might keep in mind is a fairly confident prediction that what started this trane of events will likely lead right back to some very informative Victorian Police Gazette of about early 1949, thus providing a fairly sound grounding for a strangely incredulous tail of deception.
pariah heep: I’m just trying to understand exactly what happened, while doing my level best not to read anything beyond that into what I see.
Right now, we have an 1898-born Kean clerk who was an Adelaide nitkeeper (who we would very like to know more about), and an 1898-born Kean clerk who was caught drinking at Glenelg’s All Night Cafe and who was also father-in-law to a Tasmanian prospector, though no doubt the Trovean woodwork holds several other 1898-vintage Keans we are currently unaware of. I’m not yet saying one is the same as the other: but it would be extremely good to be able to refute or confirm this, just so we can clear the fog of historical doubt somewhat. As normal, all and any suggestions as to how we might attain this (hopefully) small bit of clarity will be much appreciated.
Oh, so if you happen to know any details of May Kean’s marriage (I haven’t found anything in Trove or genealogy websites etc), please feel free to pipe up, there’s a good fellow. 🙂
Nothing to read into anthing more than that presented. Had I any leads on the the nit keeper, that have not been aired, Im not sure that I would want the world to know about them just yet. Not much doubt in my mind that May is Agnes Marjorie, as I have intimated, whether she entered the convent or not is still to be determined and of course most young novices don’t get to be nuns. Opting instead to tend farms or become teachers, nurses, Catholic missionaries (living the remainder of their lives in Swaziland) and perhaps even sex workers for more astute and easy going Irish colleens.
Note also that Libraries Tasmania holds four items relating to V. M. Cottle, three pieces of correspondence plus a 1958 report commissioned for Electrolytic Zinc Company:
MIN2/1/366 – S8/77 Special Prospectors licence, E.A. Henderson V.M. Cottle – Shelfmark Hobart B 190 2
-> https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/tas/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fARCHIVES_ITEMS$002f0$002fMIN2-1-366/one
MIN2/1/3544 – P118 (No 9) Cottle, Victor McDonald – Shelfmark Hobart A 22 7
-> https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/tas/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fARCHIVES_ITEMS$002f0$002fMIN2-1-3544/one
MIN2/1/94 – P118 (No 19) Cottle, V.M., Rosebery – Shelfmark Hobart B 190 2
-> https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/tas/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fARCHIVES_SERIES$002f0$002fMIN2/one
1958 report for Electrolytic Zinc Company, NS3679/1/27, Shelfmark Berriedale K 128 6:
-> https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/tas/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fARCHIVES_ITEMS$002f0$002fNS3679-1-27/one?qu=ARCHIVE_915%3D%22NS3679%2F1%2F27%22
R.L.Brathwaite’s 1969 work on the Rosebery ore deposit explicitly mentions both Henderson and Cottle:
* https://eprints.utas.edu.au/11500/2/Brathwaite_chapter1-6.pdf
Brathwaite refers to Cottle’s 1958 report for Electrolytic Zinc Company:
Cottle is also mentioned in this 45-page report on Mount Farrell for Rio Tinto:
* http://www.mrt.tas.gov.au/mrtdoc/tasxplor/download/57_0138/57-0138.pdf
The bibliography mentions: Mount Farrell Lines, by G. Hall and V. Cottle, E.Z. Coy., in Geology of Australian Ore Deposits, 1953.
The area Victor Cottle got the prospecting licence seems to be at the south end, though whether this was “South Farrell”, “Dutton’s Workings” or “South Murchison” is quite beyond me. There’s a 1948 report on Dutton’s Workings here:
* http://www.mrt.tas.gov.au/mrtdoc/tasxplor/download/48_0097/48-0097.pdf
And a more recent (2007) report on activity in the area contains nice drawings and cross-sections, which may well be helpful:
* Search Google for EL472003_200805_01_Report.pdf
A career reminiscence here – https://towardsthefinalhour.com/about/ – reveals that by 1964, Vic Cottle was the Chief Geologist at Electrolytic Zinc Company. There’s a mention online of “HALL, G., and COTTLE, V. M., 1959: The Mineralized Rift Valleys of Tasmania”, but if you search Google for…
“Electrolytic Zinc” “Cottle”
…you’ll find mention of numerous other technical reports Victor Cottle authored or co-authored for EZ Co. Hence my guess is that he must have taken up a position with EZ Co in or not long after 1948.
Another career reminiscence here, this time from John Hill – https://www.smedg.org.au/John%20Hill%20Career.pdf
Not having developed too much enthusism for chasing the somwhat tenuous Cottle ‘leads’ regarding al roads leading inevitably back to Port Perie and lead in Somerton man’s hair; my only observation is that, the Tasmanian Archival records refer to a Victor ‘McDonald’ Cottle. So I guess it might be advisable to consider checking to see that we are talking about Pat Kean’s Vic. At least three other Victor Cottles’s appear in Australian genealogical records, albeit none with the middle initial ‘M’ for McDonnell as relates to Pat’s on record life partner.
It seems likely to me that when geologist Vic Cottle flew to Tasmania on 11th Nov 1947 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69114224 and back on 15th Nov 1947 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69031313 , it was to negotiate his contract with Electrolytic Zinc Company.
This is because the Cottles all moved to Tasmania in January 1948, as per the 8th Jan 1948 Burnie Advocate: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69067067
In March 1948, Mrs V. Cottle was elected Secretary of the Rosebery kindergarten: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69080041
Though when the kindergarten reopened in May 1948, she was down as “Mrs P. J. Cottle, Hon. Sec”: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69114224
Miss May Cottle came a-visiting in September 1948: 22 Sep 1948 Burnie Advocate https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69184430
And again in October 1949. 24 Oct 1949 Burnie Advocate: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91771199
She flew back to Adelaide on 29 Oct 1949: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91758725
Mrs Cottle also won a box of sweets at the C.W.A. Rosebery branch, 01 Mar 1949: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69331055
May Cottle came for another visit in September 1952: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69443516
At Rosebery State School’s grand march (24 Dec 1952), the “most original infant” was judged to be “Celia Cottle (Cinderella)”: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69427872
A “V Cottle” was playing for Rosebery’s Chess Club in 20 Jul 1953: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69481344
Incidentally, the same article mentioned that Rosebery had not long before lost its best player, Polish Otto Weber. chessgames.com has three games of his, including this lovely 11-move Benoni from the 1962 Tasmanian Championship (Phillips-Weber): http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1754115 “Otto Weber (1911-1969) won the Tasmanian state title 13 times. Six of those victories were in consecutive years (1953-1958), and in his 1953, 1954, 1955, 1960, 1966 and 1967 victories he recorded a “picket fence” perfect score.“
I note that the lead/silver/zinc mines in the general area of Mt Farrell have come to our attention previously. See: Risdon, zinc, and known unknowns and Risdon round-up.
Well a couple more observations, if one were to be so Keane on tracking down an old style prospector like Victor McDonnell Cottle, presuming he is one and the same as our man from Crystal Brook/Port Pirie SA. The Cottles were hardly Papists and one might wonder about Patricia Keane being allowed to couple with such a fellow, especially one of a certain clanish ilk. We also note that our young mother bore her second (first RIP) daughter in late June 1945 at Adelaide, while good old Vic might possibly have been scratching over old rocky mineralised outcropings in RoseberryTasmania. For years after he knocked around the NSW bush in a management role and had his office in Sydney, along way from the old kirk in Sth. Aust. Perhaps our good Catholic lady stuck by hubby though the couple may have had no more kids from what we know. Its just as likely that the Cottle’s settlied elswhere as milongal suggests and are still there, resting in some quiet little village non demoninational cemetery, not as yet signed up with ‘billion dollar graves’ NB: May the occasional visitor to Tasmania was presesumably Vic’s sister and not Marjorie Kean.
Perhaps we were a little lax in not reporting that Patricia, who had, as we’ll all recall, become Hon. Secretary of the local kindergarten, was forced to cancel classes due to a measles outbreak and they were not resumed until 27th October, 1948. We note with some interest that she’s refered to most usually as (Mrs.) P. J. Cottle and not Mrs. V.M. Cottle as should have been the correct form of address.
Take your pick, all in row. Lucieton Robe Cottle (Vic’s mother) thence Mabel, Margaret and Margery. All base dirivitives for the pet name May, as we have agreed, though perhaps nee something other than Cottle. I’ll go with Margery as being a spinster sister-in-law to Patricia, at a pinch, if I May be so presumptuous.
Have dug deep, yet no trace of any Cottle at Montezuma Falls cemetery, Roseberry Tasmania. No trace at all for Athualapa and no joy for Lorraines burial lists at Crystal Brook, Beetalloo Valley, Red Hill or Streaky Bay. Port Pirie is well plotted with Cottles, but not ours and not surprising, for Vic’s mum Lucy was originally a Brighton/Hove lass, so must have moved back there when her hubby passed on. Stands to reason that the Kids might also have settled in Adelaide after their own hitching in the early 40s perhaps……
Was just reminded to check crook old Rookwood general cemetery and nothing to report, though didn’t do the smaller ones at Lanecove/Ryde, Woranora or Waverly as I can’t dig them up. Seems to be that EZ/Risdon was a very big concern, hence 1960s reports (covered above) that Victor was it’s chief geologist in NSW and drove back (home?) to Sydney from Bathurst (100miles)…I’ll drop off when others start tiring of this tenuous Cottle thread, which we should not forget, started back at the All Night Cafe, Glenelg in 1937 when a pair of old diggers, one a clerk t’other an RSL club officer (next door), decide to have a quiet snort bfore opening hours. Upshod being they get busted and nod to a slap on the wrist fine, most likely paid by the charitable spinster owners. Whereas herein and for all times after, Tom Kean and war hero Mick Galvin will be be looked upon as notorious ‘Melbourne baccarat school nit keepers’ ….Talk about ‘Crook as flamin Rookwood’, this beats all and what’s worse that game was not even illegal pre 1948 in Victoria to the best of my knowledge, so a Kean a Cottle and a Spooner for your thoughts anyone…
Pariah Heep: I also didn’t report the mad hatter and Carmen Miranda fancy dress party, or the tennis club, etc. I stopped when the picture became clear beyond all doubt. 🙂
Pariah Heep: we have three Kean sisters with three separate birthdays, so you’re fighting a losing battle trying to slim them down to a misspelled pair.
And May Cottle (the coloratura soprano) was indeed different to May Kean, I included her to try to prevent people accidentally confusing the two. 🙂
pariah heep: contrary to your comment, I have neither reached nor eliminated those kinds of conclusions, I’m still in the (boring, but entirely normal) research state of not knowing either way.
Still, we do now know that Vic Cottle took out the prospecting licence for the area just south of Mount Farrell despite having a full-time job as a geologist with Electrolytic Zinc Company, so there’s probably plenty left to find out here. 🙂
In re the notorious Kean sisters of Cabra College, I’ll take your absolute, irrefutable, undeniable promise on your 8.48am 11/3/19 claim as fact, though my spiteful uncompromising alter ego is not prepared to give any like undertaking ie. there being no possibility of Agnes of 1921 being our missing May Kean aka Agnes Marjorie (vise versa) Spooner; But give me those two other birthdays for Mary and Pat like a good chappy and I’ll play about with them in my spare time……So I’ve had my man frusconi get back on negative searches for Sydney’s Gore Hill, Waverly, McQuarie Park and Northern Suburbs. A single hit on Victor Cottle at Woronora looked promising but alas he died Oct. 2018.
“But if it was Mary.. Mary..,as Plain as any name could be, in a Dominican society, she’s our Sister Marie”….She is the missing sister, not May who is accounted for in the plain terms outlined according to brother frusconi, but we shall see, shall we?
pariah heep: there was not a flicker of a trace in the Adelaide Advertiser of any Kean daughter being born at any time in 1919, so I suspect that the family could well have been living in Victoria back then. There was similarly no trace in May 1922 for May, and I haven’t yet trawled through 1921 looking for Marjorie Agnes.
pariah heep: as I recall, we have “3 sisters” mentioned in one of the documents.
Pardon moi? Patricia Jean Cottle bn. 1919, &c &c, my man insists that it had no relevance whatsoever to the inquiries. My sincere apolgies and I’ll have brother frusconi’s guts for garters for not disclosing it earlier when it could have made a difference, somehow.
pariah heep: all the dates and places I know are in the “Kean Family Tree, First Attempt” section above, to the best of my knowledge. As always, plenty of room for improvement (e.g. I don’t have anything more than a name for Celia Cottle etc, and you should perhaps also note that a premature birth is not the same as a stillborn birth).
I should perhaps also add that I found no sign of any Kean daughter being born in or around 20th May 1922 in all of Trove, not just the ‘Tiser.
Don’t recall speaking of any still born in ’44 and you’re correct not a trace of the sister Cecilia, reminds me to cross reference derivations of a name that may have been altered to something more strine-ish…’Cecilia you’re breaking my heart’ was a good S&G tune around 1970 from memory (just looked it up)…My brother of course argues for May in ’21 and Mary for ’22 and I can’t knock any sense into the man. I also recall the old Kean family tree very well, especially Edward (Ted) Keane, from Vic or even over the border in SA. There seemed to be more but it’s gone for now.
Mary Kean, Nuns quior, (Julie Andrews Sounds of Music), no mention of ‘Home Economics’ or ‘Dom. Science’ in her Cabra resume but instead groomed by her mentor soprano Sister (in-law) May Cottle, for service with the Dominican order is my best guess, along with a life posting to Venuatu late 40s as the now fully fledged Sister Marie. Fits in for mine and I don’t see frusco wringing his greasy mits in frustration. No wonder Mary never turns up in Tizer.
I think there was more than one article that mentioned Patricia Kean accompanied by 2 sisters (May + Mary/Marjorie) – and somewhere there was a Margaret (which I either dismissed as unrelated, or assumed as Marjorie) floating around too….
The lack of birth records is because the Vics only release them 100 after the fact. Not sure eactly how it’s done, Patricia doesn’t appear in it yet, but other 1919 births do ((i suspect they have a filter based on the actual date – eg ‘SELECT * FROM birth_dates WHERE year>= :var ANDyear<= :var AND actual_birth_date < (date() – 100 years)'
If this is the case, checking the Vic site every day should refine the actual birthdate….
Of course, all of that means we should be looking for birth notices in VIC papers, not SA ones….and noting not everyone has the habit of putting everything in the paper.
milongal: in lots of ways, though, we surely now know more than enough about all the secondary details here.
The central question is all about the three girls’ father, Thomas Joseph Kean, and how he lived and died. Realistically, the chance that he was the Somerton Man is 10% or less, but given that every other suggestion would seem to be hovering around the 0% mark, why not look a little further?
Patricia seemed to fit into the Nth. West Tassie social scene pretty handily, almost as if she was born to it. There were Kean families of long standing in that semi wilderness area around the Risdon workings where many Cornish families would have had ties with brethren in Sth. Australia around Port Pirie. Can’t help recalling Nick’s pick for Ron Francis, Dr. Sarre going over to Devenport around October ’48 possibly to visit with kin.
Far as we can make out only one Thomas Joseph Kean is recorded on Vic. Prob., a retired company director who died in 1978 and connects with Greater Melbourne cemeteries as a Keane. There is another Keane from Warnambool, died in 1989 who may also lay some claim to being our Sunday tippler of 1937 at Genelg though details are scant….PS..frusconi has come up with the birth month of January 1919 for daughter Pat which is better than none and he’s also quietly confident that if Byron’s ‘nit keeper’ Tom from the All Night cafe, was married to Eileen Kean nee McPhee, then he likely missed WW1; Or if he went, then just as unlikely that he could be our Somerton Man….
@NP: Personally I think it’s even less possibility than that – simply because for it to be him, there’s so much family that must have not realised or kept their traps shut. That said, just because I don’t think he’s SM, doesn’t mean his clothes are unrelated and doesn’t mean that he’s not still of interes.
For TJ to be Keane his girls and their husbands (and potentially kids) as well as his own wife, either:
1) Didn’t see his mug in the paper
2) Didn’t care
3) Didn’t recognise him (eg because the photo is bodgey)
4) Were frightened to come forward
5) were all dead
Possibly some other scenarios even less likely.
We know 5 is false.
For 1 & 3 to be true, there must still be some element of #2 (they obviously weren’t in regular contact, or didn’t think it unusual to lose contact)
4 is sort of possible, but the more people knew him, the less likely fright will keep everyone away – and aside from his family, he must have had neighbours, workmates etc – that’s becoming a big circle of acquaintances that didn’t come forward (they’d been in Adelaide for a few years). Given Patricia’s (and the two M’s) involvement at Cabra there’s a whole bunch more people who would likely have known him – even if he didn’t directly involve himself, someone was presumably taking the kids there and picking them up….
I think it’s near-impossible for TJ Kean to be SM (without some other coverup that is way too conspiratorial for me), however I think TJ Kean is still of interest because of the clothes (even if we ultimately find he gave them to charity – which is probably consistent with his girl’s involvement at Cabra). In fact, we could probably extrapolate that if they did go to charity, it would most likely be a Catholic one – Vinnies is the obvious one (especially given AFAIK the ‘Daughters of Charity (of St Vincent De Paul)’ are active in Adelaide.
Perhaps none of that helps, but perhaps some of that would unearth some trivial little clue – did the Daughters of Charity have a mission on that side of town, etc….
milongal: let’s just say I’m quietly confident in history’s ability to surprise us and undo our carefully constructed rationales. 🙂
If such confidence bears fruit, then it will come as no surprise to those in the know, having more to do with knowledge already at hand, than history or the carefully constructed rationale of others.
I have just received a prompt and helpful response from the nice GenealogySA people, and so should be putting up a new post over the next couple of days.
I can clarify all this information. I know all the people you are refers to
T.J. Kean, as we will recall, ended his days at Coramandel S.A. and although cremated at Centenial park, the location of his ashes is unknown. On the other hand Prosper Thomson, we were given to believe, was also cremated there and his ashes scattered. Not so it seems, as the cemetery records will show that his remains were actually intered, as was his spouse of 45 years, Jessica Ellen. His resting place from ’95, is under a placed boulder, in the garden section of the general cemetery, expiry year being 2020; Whilst wife Jessica Thomson, whose own interment in 2007, was in the Jewish ward midway between orthodox and liberals, her own lease expiration being 2057…. Interestingly, although we have heard all sorts of stories on their different domestic arrangements later in life, the records show that they were probably still living together, out in the well to do suburb of Hazelgrove Park at least at the time of death separation, with Jo having remained there until her own passing 12 years later…What is a little strange in Jo’s case perhaps, is that her last will and testiment appears to have been read and set for probate in the state jurisdiction of Victoria, rather than South Australia where she had been domociled and enrolled as a voter for her last sixty years…As an interesting related aside, the Thomson’s son Robin, who supposedly died in Canberra ACT in 2009, where he was subsequently cremated, with his ashes left uncollected. According to Maquarie Park C & C which is actually infar off Sydney NSW, their show him as having been interred in their gardens. This of course is neither here nor there in terms of likely relevance, however one could reasonably presume that state protocols on dispersal of a person’s mortal remains might share similar views on a body’s need to remain intact, at least until decently disposed of.
And speaking of Jessica Thomson’s ‘assumed’ continuous enrollment as an elligible person for electoral purposes, in and for the state of South Australia, as of 1949 when she was recorded as being a homemaker (home duties) residing at 90A Moberly St. Glenelg,…what do we find mysteriously out of plumb, apart from her self serving status of Sister J.E.Thomson in the Adelaide telephone directory for that year.
John – You might want to check again. Robin’s ashes have been collected. I noticed in 2015. Perhaps DA and his wife?
They were listed as “not collected” on Janaury 15, 2015 and then as “Remains Collected” by early August of the same year.
Only one Robin Thomson at Maquarie Park and they have him underground from March, 2009 with Memorial ID 145295343. I can only report what I’ve been given.
@JS: (Maybe I misunderstood) Re Prosper, I think his ashes are under the boulder so ‘scattered’ is only mildly inconsistent, Could be wrong, but I think that part of CP is for scattering ashes, but typically people get a plaque put there as well (so relatives can come to a specific spot to visit). There is also a memorial wall (where the ashes are kept in what looks like a post office box), but I think in this case the website is referring to expiry of the plaque rather than a plot or actual ashes…
milongal: Would that explain the 2020 lease expiry. Surely they wouldn’t be so mean as to remove the plaque or take the boulder back for a new tennant. Stuffed if I know, perhaps the old adage ‘rest in peace’ is not worth the rock it’s written on.
See if I’ve got this straight, having just checked online the tastful park setting, beside yon artificial stream, meandering through the almost natural smooth river rock emplacements. From what I understand, Prosper’s ashes would likely be in a container slid beneath his personally inscribed ‘boulder’. I can see that it can be removed at short notice and transfered to a ‘pending disposal’ box in the pay to stay wall, should the lease be up, or if the fake stream happens to be down due to periodic service or a filter change perhaps.
@JS that’s sort of how I understand it. Not sure if the ashes are physically there (they may be) or whether the plaque represents that they’re spread elsewhere (I’ve got a really odd idea that even though so many people do it, you’re not really supposed to scatter ashes…but I can’t think how to verify that (and it doesn’t really matter)).
I think they do remove the plaque in 2020 if it’s not renewed – although a small plaque (optionally with some ash) takes up less room than a buried body there’s still an overcrowding issue at most cemetries/crematoria – and I think increasingly we’ll find online memorials anyway). I don’t think that’s unique to Centennial Park either – AFAIK many/most/other cemteries are keen to reuse spots for plaques as much as actual plots (that said, I could be wrong for CP too, most of the above is “I think…” rather than “I know,,,”)