Though I haven’t posted much about the Voynich Manuscript here recently, I have actually been doing a lot of research into it (for Curse 2), as well as a lot of thinking about how to decrypt it, mainly by trying to devise cryptological mechanisms that stand even a passing chance of achieving that (an “attack vector”, if you like).
Yesterday, I came up with something new (well, new to me, anyway). Having recently read a pile of books on WW2 codebreakers (e.g. the excellent “The Man Who Broke Purple”) and WW2 codebreaking (thanks to the whole cipher pigeon thing), an idea fresh in my mind was that one way to break a cipher system would be to get multiple instances of the same plaintext enciphered in different ways, and use that to understand how the cryptographic framework works. So… might there be any plaintext in the Voynich that was enciphered multiple times?
Well: it’s well known that a fair number of the herbal pictures reappear as small versions in the two pharma sections. These might well be visual recipes (as normally believed); or a visual cross-referencing hack (in the Quattrocento style of Mariano Taccola); or nonsense; or something else entirely. At the very least, however, this does tell a visual story about the content: that the drawings are far from completely arbitrary [as would be convenient for some people’s Voynich theories], but instead are consistent and rule-based, even if we can’t yet discern what those rules are.
But what struck me as possibly offering us a chink into the Voynich’s cryptographic armour is the presence of two herbal pages as well as a recipe page all containing what seems to be the same plant… f17v, f96v & f99r:
Might it be that these three pages not only contain the same plant, but also the same (or very similar) plaintext enciphered in different ways? As readers of The Curse of the Voynich will doubtless know, I have a whole constellation of long-standing hunches about how Voynichese works: but finding effective ways of testing all these ideas has proved immensely tricky.
Anyway, let’s have a look at the texts (in EVA) [I’ve used Stolfi’s transcription as a broad starting point, and ‘bold’ed the Neal keys on the two herbal pages’ top lines]:
f17v.P.1;F pchodol chor fchy opydaiin odaldy –
f17v.P.2;F ycheey keeor ctho dal okol odaiin okal –
f17v.P.3;F oldaik odaiin okal oldaiin chockhol olol –
f17v.P.4;F kchor fchol cphol olcheol okeeey –
f17v.P.5;F ychol chol dolcheey tchol dar ckhy –
f17v.P.6;F oekor or okaiin or otaiin d –
f17v.P.7;F sor chkeey poiis chor os saiin –
f17v.P.8;F qokeey kcha rol dy chol daiin sy –
f17v.P.9;F ycheol shol kchol chol taiin ol –
f17v.P.10;F oytor okeor okar okol doiir am –
f17v.P.11;F qokcheo qokoiir ctheol chol –
f17v.P.12;F oy choy keaiin chckhey ol chor –
f17v.P.13;F ykeor chol chol cthol chkor sheol –
f17v.P.14;F olor okeeol chodaiin okeol tchory –
f17v.P.15;F ychor cthy cheeky cheo otor oteol –
f17v.P.16;F okcheol chol okeol cthol otcheolo –
f17v.P.17;F m qoain sar she dol qopchaiin cthor –
f17v.P.18;F otor cheeor ol chol dor chr oreees –
f17v.P.19;F dain chey qoaiin cthor cholchom –
f17v.P.20;F ykeey okeey cheor chol sho ydaiin –
f17v.P.21;F oal cheor sholor or shecthy cpheor daiin –
f17v.P.22;F qokeee dar chey keeor cheeol ctheey cthy –
f17v.P.23;F chkeey okeor char okeom =
f96v.P.1;F psheas sheeor qoepsheody odar ocpheo opar ysar aso* –
f96v.P.2;F ytear yteor olcheey dteodaiin saro qoches ycheom –
f96v.P.3;F dcheoteos cpheos sar chcthosy cth ytch*y daiin –
f96v.P.4;F dsheos sheey teo cthy ctheodody –
f96v.P.5;F tockhy cthey ckheeody ar chey key –
f96v.P.6;F yteeody teodar alchey sy –
f96v.P.7;F sheodal chor ary cthol –
f96v.P.8;F ycheey ckheal daiins –
f96v.P.9;F oeol ckheor cheor aiin –
f96v.P.10;F ctheor oral char ckhey –
f96v.P.11;F sar os checkhey socth –
f96v.P.12;F sosar cheekeo daiin –
f96v.P.13;F soy sar cheor =
f99r.P4.13;F tol.keey.ctheey-{plant}
f99r.P4.14;F ykeol.okeol.o!ckheo.chol.cheodal.okeo!r.alcheem.orar-{plant}
f99r.P4.15;F okeeey.keey.keeor.okeey.daiin.okeol!s.aiin.olaiir.o!olshl-
f99r.P4.16;F qokeeo.okeey.qokeey.okisy.qokeeo.sar.sheseky.or.al-{plant}
f99r.P4.17;F **aiin.c!!!!khey.acthey.dy.daiin.okor.okeey.shcth!!!*!sh-
f99r.P4.18;H ychor.ols.or.am.air.om
The first thing I’d note is that, even though both herbal pages are marked up as “Herbal A” pages, their ciphertexts appear to have a completely different internal structure from each other. Specifically, f17v has lots of repetitive sequences such as “ychol chol dolcheey tchol ” / “chol chol cthol” / “okeor okar okol“, etc; while f96v has a different (dare I say more sophisticated?) feel altogether, with a nicely fluid use of letters. By way of further contrast, f99v is full of “ee” shapes such as “keey etheey” / “okeeey.keey.keeor.okeey” / “qokeeo.okeey.qokeey“, which looks clunky and repetitive in a quite different way from f17v.
The fact that all three text sequences accompany broadly the same diagram is surely some kind of indication that their contents could well be related in some way. However, there is (as far as I can see) no obvious textual overlap between the three of them. Hence I really don’t think the significant differences here can be accounted for purely in terms of presumed content. As a consequence, even though all three texts share the same glyphic building blocks, I think the precise ways the cipher system was employed in all three differ quite widely.
Unfortunately, this probably points to a weakness in the way we tend to talk about Voynichese: that we haven’t really established anything like a proper cryptographic ‘roadmap’ of the system’s evolution to help us navigate these differences with confidence. The page classifications we have inherited from Prescott Currier remain helpful in a fairly high-level sense, but I think our cryptanalytical needs have outstripped their low-level utility – they aren’t really strong enough tools to help us deal with the ciphertext itself.
And so my real Voynich research lead of the day is simply this: that I think we don’t yet know enough about the cryptanalytical differences between individual pages of Voynichese to be able to group /categorise / classify them effectively. What were the stages of evolution of the cipher system? What shapes or groups evolved into (or were replaced by) what? And why has it taken us more than a century to ask such basic questions?
Maybe, though, this is simply a consequence of the lack of detailed codicological insight we have into the original bifolio nesting and gathering layout (as well as composition order). If we had all that properly locked down, then perhaps we’d start to be more inquisitive about the changes going on in the cipher system, rather than just saying “it’s an A-page” or “it’s a B-page”.
Right now, looking at these three short sections, I have to say that it feels to me as if we still know next to nothing about how this cipher actually works.
My guess is that the distance between the botanical folios will be (barring codicological disruptions) reflecting the geographic distance between places sourced, given that several might be obtained from one locus of course.
Bracciolini’s efforts show that you really had to know plants by their local terms if beyond the Mediterranean, and sometimes even within. Indicative that Grieve can sometimes need several lines of print to record the various regional and dialect terms for a plant.
It’s a thought
I agree that the ‘pharma’ section feels smoother and a bit city-fied somehow.
D
Read
fchy op
as Aethiop.
🙂
nice thought, Nick. So how could some of the math methods be applied to separate the text into chunks that are in some meaningful way similar? This kind of attack would perhaps be independent of the pagination or even assist in getting it right?
Don: aha, that’s the subject of the next page, Voynich research lead #2… 🙂
Was this a personal copy of a book that had information deemed too “dangerous” for the public?
Pope Innocent III’ started the first inquisition movement of many that would follow. Were books that contained Muslim herbs or the writtings of Hildegard of Bingen (Physica & Causae et Curae.) prohibited Books? With a dense network of autonomous papal inquisitors in northern Italy, how could a Humanist thinker avoid being burnt at the stake like Giordano Bruno was latter. Does the answer lie in the Vatican’s Secret Archives? If it was your book would you use a consistant key or a few clues to jog your memory for the relevant passages.
xplor: errrrm…
(1) no,
(2) I don’t think so,
(3) by not holding (and speaking widely about) opinions contrary to the Catholic faith concerning the Trinity, divinity of Christ, Incarnation, Transubstantiation, Mass, and virginity of Mary; as well as not claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds, metempsychosis, the transmigration of the human soul into brutes, magic and divination. Oh, and most importantly, by not making powerful enemies angry enough to repeatedly denounce you to the inquisition and then hound you to your death.
(4) Probably not, but you never know.
(5) If it was my book (and I wanted to keep it private), I personally wouldn’t use a single key for the whole book, but rather a separate key for each page or even paragraph. But that’s just me. 🙂
“Right now, looking at these three short sections, I have to say that it feels to me as if we still know next to nothing about how this cipher actually works.”
I’m delighted you wrote that. I thought it was just me.
I can’t even get my head around what the content of a manuscript which looks like this might actually be, let alone how the text relates to it.
With the Rohonc Codex, for example, which has received far less attention than the Voynich, it’s not too difficult to make plausible guesses about its content (Christian religious texts) and identify symbols in the code as relating to specific individuals, places, numbers or whatever else. That in turn suggests an explanation for all the repetition and patterns – either formulaic prayers or some kind of liturgy which has to be performed correctly and requires things to be done or said several times. Why encode it? Because it’s a sacred text which only initiates are meant to know. It might even have been a service book – perhaps priests were actually familiar enough with the symbols to use it as an aide memoire or shorthand, or perhaps they were meant to be able to work it out if there was ever disagreement over the correct version. I’m not saying that any or all of this is necessarily right interpretation, but it does at least account reasonably plausibly for the observable characteristics of the codex, illustrations and the text itself.
I remember keeping an enciphered diary when I was younger, which eventually became so secure that I myself could no longer read it without considerable effort – which defeated the point. So I guess my question is this – does the fact that the Voynich seems to have been enciphered in such a ferociously complex way imply that the author him/herself never intended to refer to it or even to read it again? (Again, assuming that it is indeed an enciphered document and not an exotic natural language rendered in an unusual character set).
SirHubert,
In the odd moment of nightmare-by-empathy I do wonder about the written text, and not in a good way.
What if Baresch was only pretending the scenario was hypothetical; if some well-meaning person had gone to Egypt collecting texts (hoping someone would translate them back home), we might be looking at cursive Greek or Latin copied by an amateur who didn’t know his alpha from his theta. Greek wouldn’t be too bad, but cursive Latin of 1st-2ndC poorly transcribed from faded originals? You could have the same transcribed letter for as .. five or six different letters (?) in the original – cf. Vindolanda.
*shudder*
Quite a few ‘labels’ read pretty easily as wobbly Greek, but names tend to remain constant in whatever language, don’t they?
Nick,
I’ve returned to your “That Which…) pages, so that I won’t be derailing the train of thought on this subject page. So far, my alpha-substitution of the V-characters is yielding full Latin words and phrases — and discussions in re practical applications for each folio’s illustrated subject. I will be proceeding to those other pages of script which have no illustrations apparent,
Nick,
“rather than just saying “it’s an A-page” or “it’s a B-page”.”
I absolutely agree. I think its time to move away from the A and B definitions…not that they are false…but there’s more going on then the bounds of those folio definitions. I’ve been running some stats on a line by line basis and there’s clearly things occurring that are unique to only particular folios (ie quire 20 ands its “llo”). Also EVA “x” has an interesting distribution….and of course the word space. When you look specifically at the “.” it has rules that appear contained within individual folios (for instance, why would “r.r” have a strong affinity for only quire 20…there must be a different set of “word space” rules applied this quire).
So, yes, I agree…we need to build better definitions which means looking at distributions across a different scale (ie by line or by page).
Good article….
Tim
Tim:I suppose the punchline to this post comes in the follow-up one, which I’m still writing…
Hello, I checked the transcription you used against the Voynich images, in my opinion there are some errors in transcription. For example here’s my interpretation:
f17v.P.1;F pchodol chor fchy opydaiin odald? -f17v.P.2;F yccccy kccor ctcodal okol odaiin okal -
f17v.P.3;F oldaid odaiin okal oldaiin chockhol olol -
f17v.P.4;F kccor fchol cphol olchcol o?cccy -
My question: how are you supposed to decode a text which transcription is so imperfect? Or do I miss something?
I see ‘c’ and ‘e’ letters as identical (at 8x zoom), why they’re transcribed as different letters? Thanks
Nick,
You say, ‘ the drawings are far from completely arbitrary …but .. are consistent and rule-based, even if we can’t yet discern what those rules are…’
I think it might be more accurate to speak of conventions. They can be departed from, but are the habits to which most conform in the botanical section.
1. Fruit is more important than flowers and is normally set at the top of the plant and unless it is a vine-y sort of thing its fruit/seed will normally be pictured facing the sky.
2. the ‘funny bits’ – whether you call them mnemonics or ‘heroglyphiks’ are almost always set at and below the point where stem touches the ground. Not invariable but so common as to be a conventional habit.
3. relative thickness of the stalk, method of attachment for leaves or branches, and things like petiole length are drawn with photographic realism.
In this case, I’d be inclined to distinguish a plant that is given a tendril from one that isn’t.
D.
.. or not.
As long as the current crop of publicity-besotted individuals stay with YouTube and tv programmes, they should be ok.
Nick and friends:
Many months ago ( and several weeks before your departure to Frascati) I commented on how one could identify the various plants which were to be recognized for apothecary mixtures. Also I commented on the color cues/shapes of leaves and/or roots and how the various mixtures of leaves and or roots were to be mixed with a specific amount of liquid as indicated for each apothecary measuring cup/jar.
So, yes that one plant portrayed in 17v is the one and same plant which appears in the apothecary folios 96v and 99r. One determines whether it is the leaves, fruit, or root which is to be made by the apothecarian, as indicated by the red,green, and blue bands on each jar for each specimen being portrayed.
I’ve started translating folio 17 v. Would you like me to first identify the plant, and then give you the apothecarian’s recipe/proportions?
But what is the folio number for the second plant specimen you display? Folio 17v (the first plant) is identical to the pharma specimen. Folio 17v is an aquatic plant (line 7 identifies it as fruit-bearing, and line 8 identifies it as aqualigeus). So far, I’ve found no red flowers/fruit for any of the aquatic plants. Tentatively I’ve identified this plant as a white-flowered member of Sagittaria alismaceae ,
So, can you give us a folio number for your second specimen here on this post?
Another name for maybe the same family of aquatic plants,which appears only in my older set of encyclopedia
(Editor, T. H. Everett (New York Botanical Garden, MCMXVIIV, Greystone Press): Alisma, Alisma Plantago Aquatica, Alismaceae Water Plantain: This item does not discuss the color of the flowers, nor fruit if any.
According to the editor, the origin of the name is obscure. So, maybe our very “obscure” manuscript may be showing two aquatic plants with sagital (arrowhead shaped leaves).
So, I continue to read up on the aquatic plants in general. Can you give us the folio number for the second plant you show, so I can download a copy I can read and translate?
Sir Hubert
I just read your comment. Forgive me, but I do not think the Rohonc was a Christian text, at least not originally. It appears to me to relate to a religion of which we do hear, but know little. It may have been a development from the embalmer’s religion in older Egypt – certainly some figures in the Rohonc are badly-degraded versions (imo) of figures also seen among other places on P.Artemid. (1st-2ndC AD). Perhaps some Christian emblems were added later, when the region was converted.
Ahem, Nick:
To get back to your “Research Lead” discussion:
Folio 96 v does not compare with folio 17v
Folio 99r compares with 17v
The recipe for use of the leaves of folio 96v appears in f100, (second leaf and stem next to the upper jar),
Any time you’re ready for my full translation of these three folios, just give me the “heads-up”. It is getting harder and harder to get around various posts, hereupon, where one person directly contradicts another person’s post — rather than just submitting one’s own point of view.
One last tip in re both plants: The discussion, besides identifying the plants as “aquatic” (those frequent 4o refs), identifies f17 at least, as “poma-ceus-eus; “fruit-bearing”. So, white blossoms on aquatic plants which bear edible red fruit.
Oops, I forgot to mention that the writing on that pharma-jar translates to latin for “chill” or “cold”.
Madam bdid1dr
Is it that one may be permitted to enquire whether this Latin is classical or medieval?
Hmmmm, good question! I’m using a modern-day Latin-English dictionary. I have a Latin grammar on hand, but I am NOT going there! Mostly, I work with syllables/phonetics as the phrases form. I’m most cautious in determining whether the scribe(s) consistently form “look-alike” characters such as the “R” and the “S” (both which face backwards, but which the “S” has a straight tail). The figure “8” represents the syllable “aes”.
A lot of the texts legibility depends on the length of discussion which is occurring: the farther down the page a scribe writes, the writing becomes gradually distorted or cramped — sometimes to the very last quarter inch of space.
So, the only “Latin” I know is what is in my modern dictionaries, eight botanical and herbal ID books, a 60-year-old botanical encyclopedia set (16 volumes), and a six-inch thick Webster’s dictionary!
I would never have gotten this far without Nick’s great presentation of this, now world-wide, puzzle!
Nick, my heartfelt thanks!
Oh, the latin word which appears on the bottom-most “jar” (folio 99r) for “cold” or “chill”: gelidus or gelid, or gelus…
I am now wondering if the plant portrayed in vms folio 96v might be a cane berry plant, perhaps raspberry, even though the first line of script seems to indicate “aquo-esp-ece-o-aes-ceus”. Further down the page (lines 7, 8, and 9) appear to be “wrapping” one continuous phrase into the space available. Lines 10 through 13 also seem to be referring to “rosaceus”. We’ll see. I’ll be doing some deeper digging into my home library.
Nick, I hope I’m not “taking a mile” because you’ve given me an inch! 🙂
A note about the arrangement of leaves on the stem. Two show alternate leaf arangment and the other shows paired leaves. This would be important to a biologist or herbalist.
Michelle brought up pecia. This is probably the key to deciperment. The lack of errors and two or more hands in the text ndicate the manuscript is a extrodinary copy made by a bookseller for a customer. A copyist could produce about 40 pages a month ( 5 pecies of 8 pages) not counting the drawings. If the copyist took too long they might be sent to prison and finish the job with bread and water. If the script did not fit the page they get to do it over. The copyists had many ways of making the script fit the page including writting some parts many times. It would take an expert in mediaval paleography to figure out what is the real thing and what is fluff. One such person could be Dr. Giovanna Murano who has a pdf. online about the history and production of the medieval books at the University of Bologna.
The lack of a skilled illuminator indicates this is a scientific work and not religious in nature. Could it be part of De materia medica?
Recycling of parchment was common in religious sites. The Voynich manuscript appears to be very good and new.
Could it have come from Bologna and what type of animal? The black death made supplies unreliable. Could the skins have come from Bulgaria packed in salt and shipped to Bologna ?
Nick,
On my original ‘About’ page on my blog, I identified Indigo n the ‘pharma’ pages and immediately below it what I take for a type of indigo-dyed cloth. The inscriptions are not an exact match but begin with the identical element (which is good).
Unfortunately, there was a fake stat-counter installed somehow on that page, something sp*mmy, so I ditched the lot. I also listed the word for indigo in about 30 languages and found that a majority include the element -nil-
But I don’t suppose one word is much that much use; I wasn’t submerged in roses hurled. 🙂
In case anyone’s interested, the white block I read as indigo, sold in medieval times as a block stitched into cloth, no garbling according the Zibaldone da Canal and other sources.
Below it the pointed dark blue item that I take for cloth, drawn like the fringe of a Buddhist (and probably a Hindu) ceremonial umbrella’s.
fol.102r
In 1963 we were in Rome and I visited Monsignor Jose Ruysschaert at the Vatican library. I knew that he had published the catalogue of the Mondragone library and I hoped to get information about the Cipher manuscript. To my great surprise he thought that the manuscript was still in the library. I asked him: ” Can you show it to me? “. ” Yes ” he replied, and headed for the stacks. Soon he returned without it. I had to tell him that I owned the codex, and how it came to me”. Kraus, Hans P. : A rare book saga — The autobiography of H. P. Kraus. New York: Putnam’s, 1978. p.222.
xplor
If you have access to it – what date, if any, is given in the catalogue or accession record?
Is the number cited by Rene, beginning “J…..” in any catalogue or inventory?
I’m wondering whether the “J” mightn’t have been a class of books – as perhaps Judaica or Japanensis of even Javaensis
(and that’s reading it as a ‘J’ )
Enrico Carusi entered the Vatican Library in 1904 and he was in charge of cataloging the manuscripts. In 1959, Mgr. José Ruysschaert, “scriptor” of Biblioteca Vaticana, and Enrico Carusi publish the Codices Vaticani Latini 11414-11709 that showed the manuscript.. This sent H P Kraus to Rome. Latter Miquel Batllori could not find any records . So Voynich got away with approximately 27 of their manuscripts that were going to the Vatican Library.
H P Kraus gives four pages to the Most Mysterious Manuscript.\ ( chapter 31) I had quoted the last part. Also HPK employed Miss Anne M. Nill for over 10 years.
Could your J belong to Petrus Beckx S.J the 22nd general of the Society of Jesus.? It looks like the books were taken from his collection.
Explor: I’ll try to restrain myself, though I am very excited that you have been backtracking the trail of Boenicke 408’s long journey through times of great upheaval and plague cycles. What I have found most revealing is that the Pope Gregory who reset the calendar, and rebuilt and expanded the Roman school which was renamed in his honor, was a “frequent visitor” at Villa Mondragon. Eventually some of Fr. A. Kircher’s archives ended up at the Villa.
Quite a few years (centuries) later, (WW II) quite a lot of works of art and manuscripts disappeared when the Allies bombed Monte Cassino and its surroundings. Several months ago Nick reviewed a book (novel?) which involved a a “rescue” of the monastery’s treasures by a German military officer and a French physician, shortly before the bombing attack. I’m now wondering how “fictional” is that book.
beady eyed wonder
Some works of art, yes. The Vatican Library holds some 75,000 manuscripts and over 1.1 million printed books, So if a few come up missing at a monastery no big deal. What was going on at the time the MS 408 was copied is important. The black death had wiped out half of the population a few years before. The old religion had failed. The black death had claimed the wicked and the good.. Medieval men and women were quite resourceful, however, in determining the cause of the plague. The earthquake of 1348 was blamed for corrupting the air with foul odors, thus precipitating the plague. The alignment of the planets was specified as yet another cause: Saturn, Jupiter and Mars aligned in the 40th degree of Aquarius on March 20, 1345. Is that in MS 408?
xplor: signs only have 30 degrees, so at least some of your information is out on this one. 🙂
Saturn and Jupiter were conjunct during March 1345 at 18 degrees Aquarius, but given that they’re conjunct every 20 years or so, rat counting is probably a better plague predictor. 😉
So much for trusting 14th century astrologers.
It is always a good idea to question everything.
What can we know ?
When was it created ?
How was it created?
Who created it?
What does it mean ?
How are we doing?
When was it created ? *15Th-century by Carbon-14 dating.
How was it created?
Was it a run of mill production work or a one off ?
This can be determined by examining other manuscripts of the same period. ?
Who created it?
This was a time of great prosperity but only the rich and educated would be interested in making books. ?
What does it mean ?
Here is where most start.
This is about as far away from the streetlight as you can get. *
Nick & Xplor: Earlier today, I made a reference to the Roman College and its expansion into the Gregorian University. Oh wow — here’s what I just found a few minutes ago:
http://www.romereports.com/palio/documents-spanning-five-centuries-digitized-from-gregorian-university-historical-archives
If the link doesn’t work, try entering the names of the digitizing project managers: Irene Pedretti and Martin Morales
The documents were apparently found hidden behind a wall in what used to be the Roman College — which eventually was enlarged and re-named the Gregorian University. I am so excited I can barely breathe. I fervently hope you can access the short video I’ve already referenced.
bdid1dr
Nick, You are onto one of the keys of the VM botanicals. I assume as you do, that it is the same plant, yet unknown to me and that the three depictions are for three different medical uses of the plant. The topmost that shows two stems joining is for “bone mending” I think where all the berry pips face the viewer, that a use for eye complaints is meant. I think the leaves could well be a representation of the human bladder with inlets shown for the kidneys.
Bdid1dr, that was a good find and may tell more about Athanasius Kircher and Jacobus Sinapius.
Is the Beinecke MS 408 all Greek or does it have Greek and Aribic parts?
Is this the work of Byzantine refugees and booksellers?
Can I suggest that these plants look like varieties of Creeping Nightshade (Solanum Dulcamara)? If you do a Google image search, you can see a wide range of variations. Certainly nightshade is a good candidate for a medicinal plant,
For leaf variations I found http://melissakirst.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/solanum-dulcamara-aka-bittersweet-nightshade/img_20120618_161727/ useful.
Kieran: it’s certainly possible, but – as with everything to do with the Voynich – it’s hard to make any identification really stick. Here’s Dana Scott’s suggestion for it (Wild Buckwheat) from 2002…
http://www.voynich.net/Arch/2002/01/msg00037.html
…and Edith Sherwood’s suggestion (Yam)…
http://www.edithsherwood.com/voynich_botanical_plants/plant.php?id=31
…neither of which seems completely satisfactory.
I am looking foreward to my junior prom, but my girlfriend wants to break up with me because she always envisioned dancing like Cinderella at prom, and her ex is like some guy who is like really in the “dance scene” and has been doing demonstrations at those hoity toity museum fundraiser balls and such. He also has won a lot of competitions and such, and I dont know any ballroom dancing. Her ex wants her back, and she is threatening to go back with her ex if I cannot learn ballroom dancing by prom.
I had known another kid in the class, usually thought of as well “special” he claimed that he was a level 74 Mage, and had “arcane intellect”. He told me that he could cast spells, but they only worked in the realms of oblivion. Knowing little science, I began to do research, and found that there may be parallel universes, and that he must have access to advanced technology. I began to study and found about practitioners of such arcane arts such as Edward Leedskalnin and began to form an interest in the arcane in order that there might be a solution for learning ballroom dancing.
Since I heard this about six weeks ago I have been studying the arcane, including texts such as the “Emerald Tablets of Thoth” ( http://www.crystalinks.com/emerald.html), A Book in Every Home (http://www.scribd.com/doc/13972267/A-Book-in-Every-Home), Magnetic Current (http://www.gallardo.net/gen-t/leedskalnin.pdf), The Urantia Book, The Corpus Hermericum (http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/herm/), The Egyptian Book of the Dead, The Pyramid Texts, The Voynich Book, The works of Isaac Newton, The works of Pythagoras, The Theory of Relativity, The Queran, The Vedas, The Torah, The Mayan Calendar, The Hopi Prophesy, and the Petroglyphs
I was hoping to discover a means of time travel so that I could go back in time and prevent my girlfriend’s ex boyfriend from having learned ballroom dancing. These texts seem to be above the level that a high school student can understand, and the concepts of mathematics involved with any theories of spacetime related to creation seem beyond me. How would I go about mastering the arcane to achieve time travel or some sort of reality bending energy that might be useful for casting a spell so that I knew ballroom dancing.
What is a guy like me to do, I have called The Archdiocese of Atlanta, and the priests refuse to use their magic cane thing send instantly me back in time so that I can prevent the event that caused my girlfriends ex from learning ballroom dancing. I am left to master the arcane on my own if masters of the arcane refuse to help me, the stupid priest said that I should find an arthur murray studio as well as that I may need to see an exorcist to have demons removed.
What do I do, I dont want to get dumped, she said she literally wants me to know the waltz, lindy, foxtrot, tango, east coast swing, balboa, west coast swing, salsa, rumba, vienese waltz, bachata, and a bunch of other complicated dance steps. How do I master the arcane so I can use arcae powers to learn these dances, or develop equipment to back in time to prevent my girlfriends nasty ex from having learned ballroom dancing.
I have already made a “caduceus coil” and connected it to a high power TV capacitor and disposeable camera mechanism, placed the coil and capacitor in a wooden walking stick, and placed a hollowed out wooden ball at the top containing a 6 volt battery. This “wand can emit an electromagnetic pulse” I have also created a “crown” out of metal that can act as an antenna and amplifier for brain waves , and potentially control the current of individual monopole magnets emited from the walking stick. I have also woven metallic thread into a cape and robe, and connected the metallic grid woven into the clothing to a portable pulsed DC power supply emitting poer at alternating frequencies for .16 (phi),(sweet 16) sec intervals and the frequencies are 7129 hz, and 6105195 hz. Those numbers were said by edward leedskalnin to be the secret of the universe, but no magic. How could I get this to work, I really need to eithr achieve time travel or ballroom dancing, how do I do that. I asked my science teacher about what I was doing, and he said no physicist would think of doing this, and you should find an “Arthur Murray Studio” whatever that is when I explained my motives. How could I accomplish what I am trying to do
For May Gem, Your tour of the arcane in search of ball room dancing skill and maybe levitation should include the sites in old Turkey called Golbekli Tepe and Nemrud Dagh. For the latter see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XprzKdi3TZA
Also don’t miss the Nazca lines. Something there for everyone! Don’t forget to keep us in the loop. .
May Gem: bless him, but Ed Leedskalnin was (in my opinion) no more than a wonderful fake, a carney huckster. The most “magnetic” thing he ever did was inspire Billy Idol to write “Sweet Sixteen”… which I suspect few would place in their top hundred classic rock lists.
As a rule, I doubt I’m qualified to give prom dating or ballroom dancing advice, however desperate you may feel. But… I *have* seen plenty of Twilight Zone episodes, and it seems to me that time travel normally works out pretty badly for everyone involved. So I wouldn’t advise that as an option.
Your mileage may vary. 😉
Nick, f17v belongs to the folios 1-25 which should be regarded as a separate category because -edy words are absent in this section. See my earlier remarks.
Secondly the EVA transcription is based on the assumption, that VM is an alphabetic ‘wordlike’ text, which must be doubted. It cannot be by coincidence that most alineas start with words beginning with the special F/P or K/T signs. The special signs are commonly preceded by o. I regard them as markers. The special signs play an important role F (391x), P (865x), K (2626x), T (1961x). Analysts often differ about F/P and K/T.
EVA transcription transcribes numerals like 3, 8 and 9 as letters l, d, y. and neglects ligatures cPc and cTc, which combine P and T with cc. The cc is rendered as ch and stands for one single number (5 ?). The sign is often written together.
VM gives no indication about the existance of small letters and capitals as is done in the EVA transcription. In fact the capitals are the mentioned ligatures.
In my opinion the VM words exist of special signs and numerals only.
Though this may never “see the light of day” on any of Nick’s pages, I would like to add a few more observations for medieval portrayals of edible fruit, especially vines (grape or berry): When you see a vine with two trailing stems arching away from each other, the illustration is indicating a viniculturist at work (grapes or berries). Has anyone noticed any sign of “hops” vines anywhere in B-408?
Bdid1dr
Yes – Dana Scott proposed hops for folio 21v.
en la parte donde se ve el castillos si se fijan bien tiene una murralla con 2 torres y termina como en una iglesia
Nick, looking again at this chapter I wonder if f17v and f96v show the same plant as the leaves differ too much (rounded leaves). Plants f96v and f99r show similarity.
The only doubled pages I found are in the astrological section, e.g. the red and white aries, which I think are translations, e.g. in Italian and Spanish, rendered in the same script.
Menno – they’re not the same plant.
I found your web-page interesting.
One question: You suggest no-one has paid much attention to the codicology and palaeography.
Nick is the acknowledged specialist in that area.
I’ve written a bit on it too.
Glad to see that my five years of trying to get people to see the work as a compendium/miscellany (a.k.a florilegium in the medieval sense) is seeping like mist into the general opinion. What a pity it has taken so long and five years detailed explanations and proofs.
The ‘print-ready’ scenario I’ve also read before, but its another topic that Nick wrote about it in his book, so perhaps you might read that. These ideas are often stated in places like the Voynich mailing list, or certain websites or wikis, in a way which takes someone else’s conclusions and pretends they are ‘common sense’ when they were one person’s intelligence, nothing common about it save appropriation, or that endless re-duplication with which we’re all familiar.
Nice site.
There is no real evidence that the botanical section is about herbal medicines. It’s a default position that is valid only by analogy and presumption, supported to some extent by a few folios in some western manuscripts, but overall dubious, I should say.
You can pass off a dog as a cat if you
Not sure what happened there – the screen suddenly went blank and the post appeared, unfinished.
meh.
If Thomas still visits – I like Nimrut Dag too – illuminates details in other folios btw.
Menno – glad Michele picked up on the ‘pecia’ idea which I introduced in the mailing list not too long ago. It seemed to raise eyebrows, so I supposed no-one else had thought of it before.
Must make a note.
Perhaps these are parallels:
In f17: ychol chol dolcheey
in f96: ytear yteor olcheey
In f99: keey.keeor.okeey
A nice little sequence that occurs once in each passage. Seems to show similar pattern and characters.
Perhaps this sequence(possibly the name of the plant?) shows us the evolution of the cipher. Feel free to criticize if you don’t think so.
I think the plant in f17v looks like Red Sorrel.