[NP: here’s a guest post by Gordon Cramer, lightly edited to Cipher Mysteries house style and with some brief comments from me at the end]
An enormous amount of effort has been applied to this case for so many years and I agree with comments regarding the value of Gerry Feltus’ book and the work of Derek Abbott and the students at Adelaide University.
I would suggest, with great respect to all, that the following facts and questions regarding evidence and timeline be taken into consideration when reviewing this case. I hope you will bear with me whilst I attempt to unravel some aspects that I find quite unusual:
1. On December 1st 1948, the Adelaide News published a brief article on the finding of the body of a man at Somerton beach that morning. In the article the man is described as being 5ft 11 inches in height, well-built and having fair hair and hazel eyes. This information was ‘fresh’ and would have come directly from the Police and quite probably the Coroner’s officer.
If you look at the images published at the time and since, his hair was quite dark and in fact has been referred to as being auburn in colour. His eyes were later referred to as blue in colour and not hazel. You could brush this off as a simple mistake but there were quite a number of such simple mistakes as you will read.
2. On Friday 3rd December in the Advertiser, another article appeared and it refers to a ‘reconstructed’ photograph of the body of a man found on Somerton Beach. This coincides with the view I and others have that the images published at the time had in fact been altered. You of course must form your own opinion on that. The same article clearly states that his death was not natural. I mention this because it was said that the Police did not discover the fact it was an unnatural death for some time. How much credence can be placed on the published photograph’s being a true likeness of the man?
3. Around mid-January the suitcase was discovered. It contained a range of items including tools, a glass dish, a razor and more. What puzzles me, given that the death was known not to have been a natural one, is why none of the items was fingerprinted. The blade and handle on the knife, the handle on the brush, the glass dish and more were apparently not dusted for prints. In fact, the Police made it clear that the way they were able to associate the man with the suitcase was the presence of Barbour’s waxed thread used to repair the collar of his coat and a card of similar coloured thread that was found in the suitcase. Why do that when his fingerprints should have been on the items mentioned, including the card of thread and the suitcase, inside and/or outside?
3. When much later a copy of the book was found, it also was not dusted for fingerprints. It should be born in mind that Detective Jimmy Durham had earlier risen to fame because he had been able to capture a palm print from a copy of a second-hand book from a shop and that led to a successful prosecution of a lady who had stolen the book. The question here is why weren’t this book and its pages fingerprinted? The least they would have found should have been the man’s prints and who knows who else’s prints.
4. The final aspect that adds to the puzzle is the manner of his death. Most would know that it was believed with some good cause that the man had been poisoned and that Digitalis or the plant derivative had been used. At the autopsy Cleland described the man’s spleen as being three times the normal size. In a discussion with Derek Abbott his view was that the Somerton Man was very ill and that his spleen could have taken three or more days to reach that size.
Here is where any input would be greatly appreciated: for example, is it true to say that Digitalis can have this enlarging effect on the spleen? If so then we are faced with the possibility that Somerton Man had been poisoned some days earlier when he would have been in Victoria, as is widely thought, or perhaps on the train.
The question here is would a man take poison, carefully pack his suitcase supposedly with the book and then take off on a lengthy train journey not knowing if he would survive it, let alone get to Somerton beach?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[NP: my own brief comments:
(1) “…gingery coloured hair, fairly coarse and turning slightly grey at sides, back of neck and behind ears… grey eyes, clean shaven and natural teeth” according to this later police report.
(2) To be precise about the “reconstructed” picture, it was made by Police Photographer Durham, appeared in the Friday 3rd December issue of the Adelaide News, and was then referred to as a “reconstructed” photo in the Saturday 4th December issue of the Adelaide News. My own best guess is that the “reconstruction” element simply involved putting a shirt and tie on the man’s body, i.e. staging rather than photo-manipulation.
(3) The book certainly should have been fingerprinted, yes: but unfortunately detective work is often full of should haves. 🙁
(4) The man’s enlarged spleen has yet to be explained satisfactorily (and I too think it would have taken several days or indeed weeks to reach that size). But the notion that the Somerton Man was a slow-motion suicide-by-self-administered-poisoning doesn’t yet make sense to me at all. Why lug brushes and knives around if you’re about to die?
Even more to the point, I think it is well worth pointing out that the significant lividity at the back of the man’s head was highly inconsistent with the pose of his body on the beach. The distinctive lividity pattern strongly suggests to me that after dying, the man’s body was laying down (almost certainly on his back) with his head slightly lower than the rest of his body, before being carried to the beach some hours later, again almost certainly in the night hours. So, somebody took his body to the beach after a fair few hours. The pasty in his stomach sounds to me a lot like a light lunch to a man his size, so my own forensic reconstruction is that
* he died in the late afternoon [perhaps in a sequence involving vomiting into his hat and losing his dental plate, right Pete?];
* he was then laid out on his back on someone’s [probably quite small] bed with his head tipped slightly over one side;
* he was finally carried to the beach in the middle of the night to be posed with a cigarette in his mouth etc.
Feel free to comment and disagree with this, but I’m pretty sure this is as close as we can currently get to the correct sequence! ]
Laid out on a small bed?
Carried to the beach in the middle of the night?
What about the man who saw a man carrying a man on the beach in the afternoon Nick?
About the poisoning issue, I stumbled across a medical article via a pretty straightforward Google search. Some Zijad Durakovic from the Pakistan Heart Journal describes a case of digoxin intoxication in which the patient’s Tc99 scan showed an enlarged spleen (the article’s named “Pseudomyocardial Infarction, Digitalis Intoxication and Hyperkalemia”). Don’t know if the patient’s condition was subject to additional medical factors but seeing the words “digoxin” and “spleen” elevates your scenario as plausible to my untrained eye.
About the rest of your summary, did you find data in which it is categorically stated that no clues where fingerprinted? I wouldn’t find it unlikely for these kind of routine procedures to be omited from official police reports.
Umm, the police report says “natural teeth” – doesn’t this report seem odd if he lost his false teeth and had only “nine upstairs and nine downstairs. All but two at the back. He had no chewing teeth” (pete bowes) ?
Nick, what caught my attention was the mention of the dead man’s enlarged spleen (3X normal?): Besides being an emergency reservoir of red blood cells, the spleen is basically an enlarged lymph node for warding off infections. I’d have to do some more digging in my medical textbooks to see if perhaps the dead man may have died of malaria/filariosis. (?)
When my younger sister was born (1948) my mother required transfusions. The blood donors (three of them) were US Navy sailors on leave from the tropics. For years afterward, my mother would have cyclic episodes of malaria.
I like the sequence, it fits the evidence and is impossible to disprove.
The coroners estimated time of death is inconsistant though…
Splenomegaly is a common symptom of chronic lead poisoning. Acute or chronic poisoning by digitalis drugs should not enlarge the spleen, unless other factors are present. I suspect that the unusual pigment that Dwyer saw in the spleen was actually megakaryocytes, which form in large numbers in chronic lead poisoning.
Nev, he only had 18 missing, that leaves a few ‘natural’ teeth scattered here and there in his mouth. The plaster cast shows this, there was another one, of his teeth you know.
It is hard to discuss this with someone who may not have read the material available. Good luck though.
Nicky: the coroner indeed estimated the time of death as some time after 2 am. Yet there’s also the 1959 report of a well-dressed man carrying a body near the beach at 10pm – http://tomsbytwo.com/2013/11/09/the-man-who-saw-a-man-carrying-a-man/ , thanks Pete! – and the traces of blood in the dead man’s stomach (which would seem to imply vomiting, though -no- trace of that was found either at the scene or on his clothes). Throw the lividity into the mix (which, as far as I can see, is a physical constant that can’t be talked around), and it’s extremely hard to produce a scenario where all these are correct all at the same time.
Nicky: “evidence of examination of the body at 9.30 a.m. on December 1, and of the fixing of the time of death at not more than eight hours previously, was given by Dr John Berkely Bennett, of Fullerton.” – http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/74647022
Chronic lead poisoning is thought to damage the kidneys (as well as the heart and other organs), but there is still some debate about this. The susceptibility of the kidneys to damage is probably variable due to genetics. This is significant for us because digitalis cardiac glycosides are not metabolised or excreted quickly and if the kidneys aren’t in good shape the digitalis cardiac glycosides can accumulate in the body. That is, the body can not get rid of them fast enough to stop them accumulating. The elimination half life (T1/2 the time required for the body to excrete and otherwise eliminate half of the dose) for digitalis cardiac glycosides is stated to be about 33 hours in healthy young subjects, and much longer in subjects with renal insufficiency. As you will recognise, if the drug is coming in faster than it is going out, it must build up until the balance of input and elimination is restored.
Lead poisoning is also linked to various problems with the heart so it is possible that SM was prescribed digitalis cardiac glycosides. If SM had some renal insufficiency due to lead poisoning, then otherwise “normal” therapeutic doses of digitalis drugs might have killed him.
Nicky: I’ve just posted a related comment on the time of death here – http://ciphermysteries.com/2012/12/03/2012-advent-calendar-day-3-the-boxall-code#comment-296512
Nick, did you mean to say ” traces of that was NOT found…” ?
Yes, or rather “no trace of that was found…”
Submitted for a perspective on failures in tracing unknown persons. Despite lengthy investigations, including DNA and fingerprint checks with Interpol, the man’s identity remains a mystery. … between 170 and 175 cm tall, with hazel eyes and balding blonde or ginger hair. There is another in Australia with some SM characteristics: athletic physique with expensive clothes from various places in Europe. Many good clues. Many others still not identified.
doenetwork.org/cases/uid-geo-index.html#NSW
australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Remains.htm
finger-plate-articles/1996/7/19/most-anonymous/
An enlarged spleen might press on the stomach, causing the sufferer to eat small meals.
Ready-made shirts, even the “taper” type, have to be altered for men with small waists. Somerton Man folded his in from the seams and sewed along the folds (which would have been recorded by the police), the shirts were altered by a tailor, the shirts did not belong to him, or the shirts were sloppy and the tails would not stay in place (SM wouldn’t be caught dead in one). There are people who cannot wear boots because of the size of their calf muscles.
Since SM’s clothes were identified, intact tags would not have added any useful information. Are tags actually removed by spies? If they wear $3000 suits with ego tags, maybe. Otherwise, I think tag removal is spy legend. How would removal help a captured criminal? Tags might be removed from donated overstock. They might be removed by an organizational killer wanting to leave nothing to chance. And, yes, by someone who thinks they should be for reasons unknown to us.
Stealth poison has long been researched. Taipan can cause death without convulsions but wasn’t studied until after the death of SM. There are many other venomous creatures in Australia to furnish toxins. Also, what are the effects of overlong treatment with a “truth serum” or overdose? Barbiturates have sedative and anticonvulsant properties.
io9.com /5902559/ what-truths-does-truth-serum-actually-reveal
princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Sodium_thiopental.html
Co-administration of pentoxifylline and thiopental …
Two more dead ends. The second phone number belonged to a bank. Did it belong to a specific person in the bank? I suspect SM had a second suitcase or travelling bag.
B Deveson, yes I read your comments elsewhere on this blog regarding lead poisoning and the report from Adelaide University.
What immediately came to mind was the town of Port Pirie,North of Adelaide. Not generally known is that in the mid 40s Port Pirie was Australia’s fastest growing town as well as being the home of BHAS Lead smelting operations. Thousands of tons of lead were shipped from the port regularly to the United States and other locations.
Another interesting aspect of the towns significance was that in 1948 an agreement between US and UK ( Combined Development Agency) to ensure continuation of supply of uranium for nuclear weapons. Whilst a fully operational facility was not built in the town until 1955, it would be reasonable to assume that uranium was also exported from Port Pirie from the mid 40s and possibly on the same vessels.
As an aside but related comment, Adelaide Steamship Company ran a service from Port Pirie to Port Adelaide during the 40s and 50s.
The local newspaper for the town is the Port Pirie Recorder and you are able to search for content on Trove, quite a lot there.
B Deveson, yes I read your comments elsewhere on this blog regarding lead poisoning and the report from Adelaide University.
What immediately came to mind was the town of Port Pirie,North of Adelaide. Not generally known is that in the mid 40s Port Pirie was Australia’s fastest growing town as well as being the home of BHAS Lead smelting operations. Thousands of tons of lead were shipped from the port regularly to the United States and other locations.
Another interesting aspect of the towns significance was that in 1948 an agreement between US and UK ( Combined Development Agency) to ensure continuation of supply of uranium for nuclear weapons. Whilst a fully operational facility was not built in the town until 1955, it would be reasonable to assume that uranium was also exported from Port Pirie from the mid 40s and possibly on the same vessels.
As an aside but related comment, Adelaide Steamship Company ran a service from Port Pirie to Port Adelaide during the 40s and 50s.
The local newspaper for the town is the Port Pirie Recorder and you are able to search for content on Trove,
May I mention that these days clothes bought off-the-peg are the norm but before the 1930s depression, Australians were among those who did or pretended they did have most of their clothes made to order. As a child, I was also taught that it wasn’t done to let your clothing serve as free advertising for some ‘mere’ manufcuring company, and all such ‘ads’ were removed before cleaned and worn.
Only a few exceptions that I recall. So while younger people of the fifties might have retained or even flaunted some labels, to remove them wasn’t uncommon as yet.
🙂
.. were removed before *the clothing was* cleaned and worn…
Byron, can you get in touch with me at celestinelecarr at gmail dot com?
Celestine
Are you seriously saying that Max Gluck became Peter Maxwell and Frances Ada became Betty?
Sounds plausible, I think malaria would be the top cause of enlarged spleen now, and then as well. If there was some sign of the body being laid on something like a small bed, are you refering to a pattern of blood pooling? Are there any images or diagrams of this in any reports available? I haven’t read over the inquests in full yet, but that would lead me to revise my views.
Knox, barbituates were looked for and a poison like that of Australia’s Taipan species would be obvious.
T Anderson,
Dwyer specifically commented that the pigment in the spleen was not malarial, but he could not identify it.
I have always wondered what the marks/wounds(?) near his knuckles were that no one thought were relevant at the time.
Has anyone considered Australian wildlife?
Could he have been bitten by a snake or spider, or stung by a scorpian? I have no idea what types of reptiles etc are around the Adelaide area, and who knows where he came from beforehand.
What type of symptoms does a redback or whitetail cause? When we were kids we were told to be careful in the sand dunes (in NZ) because a Katipo spider could bite us.
Forget it! If it had been an accidental death, Jestyn would have coughed up his identity. She knew he had been murdered so she stayed mum.
Peteb: So you asked the great man’s expertise to anylise the Barbour card that B. Deveson thought was likely to include clandestine writing beneath. What came back in response was a selection of ten on line, no account thread cards two of which were Barbour lifted from a sales blurb. The bastard was baiting you Bozo yet you got down on your knobly kness & praised his excellence with a reverance fit for of a King. Betcha your seconded Master’s apprentice had a sly chuckle in private.
Well, now that Gordon has finally classified me as a Troll and remembering that over the years he has labelled Nick Pelling a narcissist, Milongal as needing psychiatric help, Clive relegated to the great voiceless unwashed and John Sanders as being borderline obsessive, I must desist my unworthy endeavours as the one and only leading, fact based expert, Gordon Cramer, has completely destroyed whatever reputation I’ve established.
I have been cast adrift by the Great Leader, banished, though what type of unfortunate mental condition I might have is yet to be determined. Perhaps I need to gaze into the mirror more often, sometimes he provides me with surprising advice.
Though I would have liked to have seen Cramer’s ‘strong corroboration’ that proved Boxall did know Jessica’s last name. But we suspect there never was any.
When one reaches the exulted rank of Superindent, as Len Brown was in 1978, his retirement year from Sapol, it could hardly be expected that after a lifetime of telling institutional lies for the force, that he might then desire to tell the truth to an upstart wanabe interrogator likes of Stuart Liittlemore. It’s quite obvious to we latterday sleuths that Len was playing up to the quiz kid hence his deliberate over use of euphenistic ers, ahs, ums &c for to entertain his cronies spying through the two way mirrored adjoining interview room. Actually he made more gaffs than average punters might realise, including stuff about the suitcase found in the railway refresh..cloakroom (2), witnesses Gordon & Olive showing up in a car and others. So recently Tbt blogger Peteb gave us ground breaking news of Browny’s 27 Leigh St. leather grinder Julius Cohn’s paper expert apparently not being able to tell an book from it’s missing cover which isn’t likely to aid in his search for the facts. Truth be known, research assistant honest Clive Turner failed to note that a stationer Alex Cowan & Sons was just next door at 25, so score on the board for Sapol. Folks familiar with jewish surnames (no Christian names in Hebron) ie. Cohen, Cohn Cowan, Combe and a heap more like them (not Coon) ca be readily interchangable, so again we can give Len benefit of the doubt. Just as a backup I looked up his nominated Julius Combe and found one listed as a Crystal Brook farmer under both Combe and Coombe. So there we go some more unexpected partial truth on Len’s part and on that basis I vote we give the officer a pass, also bearing in mind he only got of fifty bucks in expenses for all his time and effort.
When one reaches the exulted rank of Superindent, as Len Brown was in 1978, his retirement year from Sapol, it could hardly be expected that after a lifetime of telling institutional lies for the force, that he might then desire to tell the truth to an upstart wanabe interrogator likes of Stuart Liittlemore. It’s quite obvious to we latterday sleuths that Len was playing up to the quiz kid hence his deliberate over use of euphemistic ers, ahs, ums &c for to entertain his cronies spying through the two way mirrored adjoining interview room. Actually he made more gaffs than average punters might realise, including stuff about the suitcase found in the railway refresh..cloakroom (2), witnesses Gordon & Olive showing up in a car and others. So recently Tbt blogger Peteb gave us ground breaking news of Browny’s 27 Leigh St. leather grinder Julius Cohn’s paper expert apparently not being able to tell a book from it’s missing cover which isn’t likely to aid in his search for the facts. Truth be known, research assistant honest Clive Turner failed to note that a stationer Alex Cowan & Sons was just next door at 25, so score on the board for Sapol. Folks familiar with jewish surnames (no Christian names in Hebron) ie. Cohen, Cohn Cowan, Combe and a heap more like them (not Coon) can be readily interchangable, so again we can give Len benefit of the doubt. Just as a backup I looked up his nominated Julius Combe and found one listed as a Crystal Brook farmer under both Combe and Coombe. So there we go some more unexpected partial truth on Len’s part and on that basis I vote we give the officer a pass, also bearing in mind he only got of fifty bucks in expenses for all his time and effort.
That some petty difference of opinion between cohorts on whether Lt. Alf Boxall might or might not have known nurse Jestyn’s last name or nay could spell an end to their former closer than close relationship reeks of collusion, or worse still an ulterior scheming motive by caniving wannabes. Doesn’t wash at all, and more particulary in that their much reverred old school detective Gerry Feltus should be brought into the dispute as the linch pin. It hints of a devious plot to entise more fertile minds into the lame argument. Perhaps a no nonsence but fair minded CM contributor of substance who could be caught out on some mute point, discredited and the site along with it. Good luck, our best thinkers won’t be deceived and nor will this lowly troll baiter.
@ John Sanders. It is also written in 4 verses. They drink rum at the bar. etc.
So Jestyn drank rum at a bar with a man. Then she went to the hotel with him. Where it was certainly done = fuck. She was a young Jesica. The man ran out of strength during that intercourse. And there Jestyn gave him a pill. Something like Viagra. On the potency. To make the intercourse long and high quality. But that went awry and the man collapsed in the hotel. Now what about the dead body? She hired an acquaintance to help her take her body to the beach. Where she lay like a corpse smoking a cigar.
In the text of 4 verses, there are also two names: Roby and Thom.
transl.google. free.
Welcome to the Great Unwashed PB….although to be fair I have a shower twice a year, even if I don’t *really* need it….
Josef Z. Prof. an interesting summarisation of events as they may well have gone down and recall I recently offered a similar synopsis albeit missing your more imaginative translation. One point that might detract from the story’s veracity of which you may not be cognizant with is, that the deceased mortal came with an appendage that pointed to likely Christian gentile roots. On the other hand our Jessica’s known preference towards an eastern orthordox judism may not have boded well for consenual liason between the pair, especially in doings that might well be cnsidered highly unusual and not at all kosher by 1948 standarđs. Brings to mind Kipling’s gem.. ‘East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet, Where cultures clash on things so crass as how and when to treat.
John Sanders. Very interesting consideration. I didn’t write the word “fuck”, but the translator evaluated it that way. So sorry. ( Ok = whore, slut, harlot, etc. ).
Just such a small footnote. Body exhumation. And take a good look at the deceased. Specifically on his cock. Is it circumcised? Or is it not circumcised? As if the corpse had been circumcised, it was certainly one hundred percent Jewish. An agent such as Mosad. Who got involved with Agent “JO”. And because he knew a lot, he was eliminated. So it’s over. Taman Shud.
Just such a small thought. You know for sure what it is: the Swedish troika. There are 2 men and one woman. So there was sex in the hotel. Corpse + Boxall + Jestyn “JO”. But the corpse died during intercourse. Boxall, a friend of “JO”, then helped transport the body to the beach. Before dawn, there was light on the beach.
Josef Z. Prof: thought I made it clear, the man on the beach was intact, you can bet your sweet bippy on that score, Doc. Dwyer attested to it at the inquest he being a field surgeon in the late hostilities and a former resident of Moseley Street so he would be an honest John. One thing I picked up on is, when police spoke to Jestyn why didn’t they ask her some leading questions about SM’s undercarriage. Had she been caught out in flagrant delicto with him, surely she could have been tricked into fessing up saving the filth in time and effort tracing Alf Boxall who was known from his military records to be as clean as a whistle. PS. The street lamp above Alvington stairs was not on when Gordon and Olive decamped at 8.00pm. best guess being that Mossad agents had taken it out on their sweep some time earlier.
Might be mistaken Gordon Cramer, Peteb & co. but, didn’t you read my 21 January miscellaneous post “…isn’t that a bloody great needle sticking out of the displayed Batbour threads card”. I didn’t need any of GC’s later supportive blow ups with highlighted red box overlay so and curious lost punters might pick up on the close detail. Not unusual because ‘Wm Barbour&Sons Ltd cards sometimes came with a needle insitu but, only if backed by the ‘open hand’ logo and the not so difficult to read signature sign off beneath…Standing by for the heads up accreditations lads, that includes you Byron if you’re not too busy.
Unintentional blunder by GC’s ever loyal former aid aside, Clive’s new equally reckless contoller should have known better than to adopt such a foolishness, it might serve to discredit the recognised SM master. So at not to be outdone our great pretender went on to quote one of Len Brown’s responses to Littlemore in ’77 (78 Gordon) in which he (GC) audaciously claims that Browny’s paper expert most likely worked for j H Sherring lithographers further along Leigh St. (26) and at least fifty yards from Clive’s helpful Cohn Leather grinders (27) on the other side. Of course Gordon could not countenance my own offering (3/2 above) of Alex Cowan & Sons (25), internationally renowned printers, stationers and EXPERTS in all fields related thereto eg., offset & linotype equipment etc..So Gordon gets the Feltus Toto Toro Toro star bullshitter for 2022 for mine..NB interesting somewhat that the Bickfords company also had their city office at 28 Leigh St. in 1949.
Contrary to constant badgering and despite claims of full awareness on negztive impact pursuant to reporting as first hand sayings or doings of others not in one’s presence therefore beyond their ability to confirm. Petab nevertheless continues along the same Alfred E. Newman careless path, thus rendering much, if not all of his rare cleverly crafted reporting no more reliable than his unappreciated other works of fiction. Anyone wanting their SM related voices heard and legitimised might like to get with the program and stay true to legal definitions as defined by the time honoured Judges Rules.
peteb: on the bright side, the good news about being given a label by Gordon Cramer is that it is normally in very very small writing.
…though on the down side Bozo, you must share the label with trolls like me,
@NP: You owe me one computer screen now that mine is covered with coffee 😉 . It’s little wonder I hadn’t spotted any of those labels myself – I wasn’t looking in the minutia.
How about a very simple question, one that only requires a one word answer … When Brown visited the ‘Specialist Paper Analyst’ on Leigh Street did he take the slip that perfectly fitted the tear?
Yes
or
No
Hypothetical is all you can have Bozo, with ‘yes & no’ being a no go without getting into Felix Unget assumption territory. You’ve got to stop that goading nonsenc, it reflects badly on your methodology at the very least.
Well, let me put it another way: why would Brown have taken both the slip and the Rubaiyat to a paper analyst if they both fitted together perfectly?
@PB: That question is a trap. He took the piece of paper, but it didn’t fit the tear (certainly not perfectly).
IMHO.
I sort of alluded it to earlier, I have a bit of an issue with how casually “Leigh St” is thrown around. It’s a tiny street. Adelaideans might know it (not necessarily by name) from taking shortcuts from Currie St buses to the Railway station (although I’d be interested to know how bus-centric Currie/Grenfell was then – since about 2005 (happy to be corrected) *MOST* East/West services** use Currie Grenfell, but before then they were more split between North Tce and Currie/Grenfell (might be 2006, but it was as the Tram was being planned for North Tce (the bit West of King William – the bit East is newer again)) – and I suspect that’s only since the 1980s as the Obahn came online…..
So in 1948 (or even 1970s when Brown comes out with it), how much does “…in Leigh St…” actually mean to anyone
**just had a look at Admet’s map…..everything except the 281/282 (Paradise, from memory) and 286/287/288 (6&7 used to be Henley, I suspect 8 is a sub route to maybe Flinders Park or somewhere) now use Currie/Grenfell. I can’t imagine the Port Road services (15x) using Currie St…..I get they connect diagonally across town so it sort of doesn’t matter which arterial they use, but in my memory the Port Rd services have ALWAYS used North Terrace (Actually, to bore everyone, I guess with the new Hospital at the opposite end of town there’s no longer a need to have everything service I1 (there used to be an I2 and I3 there as well) on North Terrace)). On the network map, North Tce now looks so sparse for stops.
Thank you Milongal.
Only uncorroborated mention of Leigh St. ever, was from Brown himself. Press accounts over the three days following Friday evening’s alleged ROK delivery to Sapol HQ, reported that police were satisfied upon scientific analysis that the slip and book were a match. One paper said this was done on Sunday, the other said Monday, not a great window of opportunity for Brown, but not impossibke as I’ve tried to expain. He had by his own admission been taken off the case by Monday and recall that Canney’s visit with an unamed phone subscriber in Glenelg was the next day, a day prior to reports of police having tracked down Alf Boxall’s address through alternate official means. All this coincides with contemporary newspaper reports concerning an unamed former nurse having amitted to a wartime liason with an unamed army lieutenant in Sydney, about her parting gift and some other points of note. From this it is therefore reasonable to assume that Canney must have shown her a Rubaiyat copy of some description, upon which her telephone number appeared during questioning on the Tuesday. This is all mentioned in the narrative taken from Gerry Feltus’s book from memory so, believe it or not is all I can offer…I’ve always thought it likely that it was Brown who penned the nurses number in the book, probably on Saturday 23rd, following Jo’s helpful call to CIB with information re Leane’s plea for help two days beforehand and, that this may have served to get Len Brown the hell out of there before some smart presshound got wise
.
Gordon: You’ve got some gall gall mate, your espionage farce is simply what your inventivr mind would like us to believe. It does not include one iota of fact based evidence to support such wild erratic espionage contentions for Goodness sakes. Hey what about the long promised stuff on Major Moulds part in the verse 70 proof of involvement that Clive supplied you with as confirmation of involvement which you were going to explain. Also the rip roaring continuation of Paul Lawson’s knowledge of the Boxall and Jestyn ship counting conspiracy that you were going to include in an extended factual bio., full of proofs that we’ve been standing by waiting for with baited breath. Come clean GC and don’t start in again on your irrelevant Hay bank notes or crap about our poor innocent Jewish misfit who offed himself in a lonely room due to personal problems of which he simply couldn’t cope any longer.
Was Freeman ever asked if he knew the nurse? In fact was Freeman ever asked anything about the Rubaiyat, or was it just a “thanks for handing that in fella”.
The book had been in the car for some time and (if we believe Brown’s ramblings) may have been found by Freeman’s kids (or kids somehow related to him)? (possibly proposed before) Isn’t it possible that the chicken scratchings are from the kids, and perhaps the phone number is jotted down by Freeman? Perhaps he’s giving someone (e.g. Jessica or Prosper) a ride at some stage, and they give him a number they can be reached on – and the only place he can jot it down is on the back cover of this little book he has hanging around. Now he can’t throw the book away either – because it’s got information he needs on it.
Expand that theory that Freeman has given one of the Thomsons a lift and THEY used the Rubaiyat as a scrap piece of paper (I’ve done the same with coasters) not realising they were passing on a tie/link to SM. Freeman subsequently finds the Rubaiyat not realising it’s the scrap paper the Thomsons used to give him their phone number.
It’s a bit inconvenient because it potentially dismisses Boxall as a coincidence – but as JS repeatedly points out, the Rubaiyat given to Boxall was an actual book, so if Jessica knew the rubaiyat the police had (i.e. if she had seen it) it makes no sense for her to recall Boxall anyways. Perhaps the Thomsons thought they had gotten rid of the Rubaiyat (and any link to it), and when the coppers come a knocking Boxall was a convenient ‘spur of the moment’ story (obviously she actually HAD given the Rubaiyat to him before, but it’s a nice deflection to send the Fuzz to find a totally unrelated Rubaiyat in the hope that cuts you out of the story).
@PB again: Re the slip, I always come back to trimmed vs torn. Even if GF says the “tear” was originally smaller, every reference I’ve found for the book talks about “torn”. Many of the references I find for the slip have “trimmed”. To me, “trimmed” suggests “torn and then neatened” rather than “cut out” – and in any event it’s not a simple thing to cut out something neatly from a book unless you’re prepared to cut into the page from one of the sides. So I think he took the book and the slip – but let me ask YOU a question: What sort of confidence would you have in a brief analysis (I’m assuming the slip and book weren’t left there, so I’m imagining a conversation in the book shop and perhaps some comparison with a magnifying glass). Also insert any earlier thoughts I’ve had about how accurate any such an analysis can be. How often does the publishing house use the same paper? How specifically can we identify the paper – to a particular edition of a book? To a particular printing run?
But therein lies the problem, doesn’t it? Why do we need to extract something from the book without damaging the page beyond where we rip it from, and then feel the need to neatly clean up the edges. I think I’ve said it before, but to me it suggests one of**:
1) The Freeman rubaiyat is not where the slip came from
1.a) Freeman’s is a prank that the police ran with
1.b) SM is a fraud and figured a small neat slip could be justified as “I didn’t know how this worked” (provided it was smaller than the tear in the book – so you guess at that)
1.c) The party with the Rubaiyat is the fake, and the other party deliberately rip a larger rough hole hoping it will be bigger than the slip (hoping to argue plausibility in the fact the slip is smaller and *might* have come from the book).
1.b & 1.c are very high risk, obviously
2) SM didn’t understand how this all worked and being a bit OCD (look the shoes) tidied up the rough edges on the slip
** Until a better suggestion exists why you would extract something out of a book in that manner (without damaging the rest of the page) I’m happy to accept it was most likely some sort of ID.
Thanks Gordon for the magnanimous accreditation in being first to mention the Barbours needles, means a lot coming from a person of your repute. I could be pushing my luck but, how’s about my reporting years ago on the potential of tidal weed debris accumulating along the seawall at Somerton, consequence of the 1/12/48 9′ King tide after effects. You get full credit for neat charts and impressive photos in order to pursuade detractors no doubt, so you win by a mile on that score. Makes one wonder why a false pretender like your good self would bother with graphics to push your barrow, in knowledge it’s only trolls like me that will get benefit from it…By the way, I have a surprise or three in store that is likely to set your John Ruffles IS inspired atom spy sanction claim back a bit and, in it’s stead, promote Strangway’s accidental death as being the most likely cause of demise.
PS.. None of your soviet rapid dissipation poisons or facilitators to get in the way here either, you’ll appreciate the effort I’ve put into this and thanks for all your help on self worth etc.
This question is addressed exclusively to the narcissists, borderline psychotics, trolls and the mentally disordered .. Why was the thread photographed the day it was found when it wasn’t thought to be a tool (sailcloth repair say) or known to be used to repair our man’s clothing?
Background being it wasn’t included with the tools examined by headmaster Gray and Prof Cleland’s discovery that it was used to repair clothing was many weeks away
Milongal. Interesting theory regarding the telephone number. If Jessie used his business, he could have requested her telephone number if he had to deliver any supplies etc. Or, as you suggest, perhaps Prosper gave the telephone number, in case, Freeman needed transport in a hurry.
Milongal, in answer to your question, I can only assume whoever thought the slip and the tear were a perfect fit did just that, fitted them together perfectly and to their complete satisfaction.
Peteb: Wasn’t it you who put up the idea of the thread being part of SM’s tools of trade a day or two back. My trollish reply to the query in full can be appraised if you look back to the appropriate post or, in short form ‘Wm. Barbour&Sons Ltd’ card sign off with the company address and palm logo to enhance the otherwise dull press release caption. That’s why.
@JS: I’ll stand to be corrected by a current local, but I can’t really picture much seaweed in that part of the beach. I can remember big dumps of seaweed around Henley and Grange, and there is always a layer of seaweed even further North (through to Outer Harbor)m but I can’t picture any South of Glenelg. I don’t know exactly how seaweed gathers or where it washes from (how deep it grows etc) but I’m guessing part of the difference is the shape and direction of the beach (while you might imagine Adelaide as a long straight beach, you can see it curves in slightly different directions and even forms a very tiny bay (for lack of a better word) centered near Fort Largs (at Taperoo – Magnoson fame). The other thing is that the North/Western beaches I just mentioned are shallower – a series of sandbars means you can often walk out a long way from the sure without getting out of depth (tide-permitting). I’m assuming the sandbars firstly affect wave formation and secondly trap the seaweed closer to the shoreline. There’s no doubt the more Southerly beaches also have sandbars – but I think the water is generally deeper there (not explaining this very well, but perhaps a current Adelaidean understands and can explain better).
milongal: the original death scene panorama pic shows three mounds of debris along the seawall from memory which we must assume to be some form of tidal wash, perhaps not seaweed although, in modern times there is certainly a large expance of weed just beyond the foreshore break. My knowledge of this arises from the recent toad fish related video caption which shows our angler casting towards the Somerton Beach weedsbank and hooking a KG whiting and a pair of blue swimmer crabs, do you recall?
yeah I know the video – my point is that I don’t particularly associate seaweed on the beach with Somerton (whereas I remember entire beaches being covered around Henley, and there is ALWAYS a line of seaweed on the beach at Taperoo). In that video the seaweed is considerable distance out (from memory).
If you mean the mounds left of pic I always assumed that was sand.
I might have an opportunity to visit that beach next month – if I remember I’ll take some pictures (no promises – I have often planned to go down there when I visit Adelaide and never get around to it, but this time I’m hoping I have more time and I’m staying a bit closer)
GC: your immodest boast of 910,00 page visits would seem creditable at first bluff. That’s until one takes into consideration that the majority of those visits be from fair dinkum SM punters who visit your fantastic non forum site for a good old hoot. That is a ‘fact based’ assessment of your personal contribution to the Tamam Shud mystery and an honest overall view as to the standing of BS/TS blog overall, like it or lump it mate.
GC’s out there with his magic lemon/lime juice again bringing to light hidden code from layers of nothingness beneath much copied surface images of the ROK & TS slip. Gotta give him credit for trying it on again with us all knowing “muppets”, Peteb’s aptly named “Charlatan” (Flash Gordon) is game as Ned Kelly and yet dumb enough to be a perfect clone of his very own ‘Anonymous’ self..
Maybe he should try some sour grapes?
And fark he’s condescending to anyone who dares comment anything not in his narrative.
Could be wrong “Gordo” but, ‘Shwmae’ (Sut mae) be the Welsh equivalent of
‘Owsyer muthas ducks’ in Strine and not S’Mai Wass far as I’m aware. Perhaps you might pass that on to Dai Bach your fake Geordie (GC clone) as a gentle reminder that it pays one to know one’s limitations when it comes to truthing. ie., You can no longer pull your stunts and expect not to be called out for their lack of credibility….PS: Gordo be Welsh for ‘too much’ and at that the mucking truth.
A duck waddles into a pub, sidles up to the bar and shouts QUACK. The bar tender sez ” Why what’s seems to be the problem Donald?”…. “think I’m dieing of dreaded bird flew, got a cure for it?”…. “Sure” sez the ‘keep’, “A shot of lemon juice & Marvo-Lin bleach should set you straight, it’s been known to raise the dead according to Doc Cramer” ….”Already tried it, shit don’t work” sez Daffy. “and besides It’s a well known fact that your so called doctor is nothing more than a teetotaling QUACK”…. “Bad news travels fast it seems”. be the honest reply and so the duck Quacks and waddles out.
How many cops does it take to push a man downstairs?
None.
He tripped.
AI explains it’s not an analogy:
This text appears to be a humorous anecdote rather than an analogy. It tells a story of a duck, presumably named Donald, who walks into a bar feeling ill. The duck believes he has bird flu and asks the bartender for a cure. The bartender suggests a remedy of lemon juice and Marvo-Lin bleach, which the duck has already tried and found ineffective. The duck then criticizes the bartender’s source of medical advice, calling the doctor a “teetotaling QUACK”. The term “quack” is often used to describe someone who dishonestly claims to have medical knowledge or skills, and in this case, it also serves as a pun because it’s the sound a duck makes. The story ends with the duck leaving the bar. It seems to be a light-hearted joke rather than conveying a deeper message or analogy.
See explaining a joke can be funny…
Well spotted GC. You’ll note no unsavoury activities this end, being on our guard against accidental slips is our great strength. You’ll be aware by now that making persistent false ID claims can often land offenders in a virtual shit load of pain. So best advice is to ‘be prepared’ and seek professional help when needed ‘Beyond Blue’ helped an old mate of ours and just take a look at Daffy now…quack quack said the duck.
Peteb: at our old station in Surry Hills t’was incumbant upon poorly used street suits to bypass the elevator and gently guide soon to be felons up to the secure 7th floor rooftop interrogation room .. aaahhhhhh. PS: Secure being the post operative word more or less.
Dedicated researchers and honest commenters all: You need not pay any heed at all to the veiled threats now being formulated by one Christopher Gordon Gordon. This unscrupulous on line/offline bullying charlatan is now suggesting that criminal proceedings be instituted against decent folks telling the God awful truth about his own atrocious [pseudoscience]. I refer specifically to subjects ie., photo image lifting techniques that defy physics and lay bare GC’s non compliance with the moral obligation to telling the truth on line. He has always disregarded such honourable dictums and continues to [mislead] about everything ado on Tamam Shud with an air of nonchalant superiority and total disregard for social norms. Have a nice day to you to Gordon and as always wish you well.
Doctor=Doc Doc-Duck. Duck=Quack ergo Doctor=Quack
No Intelligence, artificial or otherwise is necessary
I always assumed that Gordon genuinely cared about the mental health of his muppet trolls. In hindsight seems that my assumption be on a par with his idle threats, boasts and promises ….. not worth a tinkers cuss!
Looks like GC’s on a roll. Tells himself aka Anonymous that he’s not into tracking IP’s. Well, could have fooled me in that on 19/11/2018 he notified Wikia-Fandom blog admin that a certain “John Sanders troll” aka ‘We’, being an rather active contributor to their managed ‘anemptyglass’ Tamam Shud site, was known to use no fewer than 18 IPs to run his online trollfest activities. GC also said that that John sanders was running a luctative online venture arranging secure IP’s for clients of an International child exploitation ring on the ‘dark web’. That about right “Mr. Cramer”, guess you wont be telling this to your anonymous Gordon Cramer clone whose idle threats like “I would tear them a new one” deserve a Pete Bowes “Good on you Gordon” chuckle or Q.
Gordon Cramer: Not much point in doubling up on your carefully worded threats of criminal prosecutions for aiders and facilitaters (blog owners) of troll activists scattered cunningly throughout long dead threads. For every snidely concocted BS/TS post spotted from here on Mr. Cramer you can expect a well considered response of equal stress by return mail. Ain’t no threat intended, take it as a “the john sanders troll” (yours truly) promise my conniving friend.
…its been taken down, second thoughts eh GC. Just what one might expect from a a crook and a wimp, afraid of his own shadows, all of them!
Just in: great news for Anons. who thrive on spam and phony bolony ala Gordon Cramer’s BS/TS non forum blogg. This be yet another sure fail venture in forlorn hope to revive his flagging readership with a revamped Danetta campaign under auspices of his former ‘anemptyglass’ banner as of 14th inst. Give the snake oil salesman due credit, he recommends both Gerry’s ‘The Unnown ([sick] Man’ for SM histerical referencing, along with his own BS/TS site for the very latest fanciful delusions, plus his redacted Big Footy Tamam Shud forum for lots of giggles.
I spoke too soon..Mr. Cramer has just re posted with an amendment vis-a-vis
“The standards you walk past are the standards you accept. (2nd line) I no longer ignore or accept the trolling activities that target this blog and myself. (3rd line) Accordingly I have taken the necessary steps to rectify the situation”. (time line)
16 October, 1923 at 1909….Good on you Gorgon Tamam Shud my friend. js
Gordon’s nemisis Peteb has retired officially once more and so the ball is now in my court to pursue his selfless past endeavours in calling the unscrupupous old conman out when he steps over the line with his sculduggery. Now that he has moved his den of iniquety back over into ‘sue d’nimh’s’ vacated ‘anemptyglass’ site, we must assume he intends for it to to be in forum style for a select group of subservient contributors created in his own image and with exotic names to make it more realistic than his BS/TS sham…Of course Gordon, if you’re ever in need of secure IP’s, I can help to arrange same at monthly mates rates of course.
@JS,
I wish he would tell me where he got this image from ‘he may have’ deleted from his blog. If he knew it was a Webb family member (Roy) post-1943 then it makes him a clever snake-oil salesman who was really ‘in the know’.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nadBfJl_4Bg7aFoFQzxLHCbqgRAf7lZp/view?usp=sharing
Even if they are rare facial ID doppelgangers why would he have them on his blog? Unless he too had used Roy’s face to search Pimeyes like I did when I originally found them. Unfortunately, someone deleted them so they can’t be found again.
I had hoped Stuart Webb might have had them in his photo collection as uncle Joe.
@JS,
If I combine the 3 faces it ‘suggests’ they are all Roy Webb. But only someone like Cramer or Stuart Webb knows whether uncle Joe was living in the US with his new teeth and nose job. Similar to the way Hickey Taylor had new teeth.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oY59_Gyz4SQ0-WP6cGWfXEdb53SWp9G9/view?usp=sharing
@John – Is the Bookmaker from Rabaul giving odds on how long PB’s exodus lasts this time?
In that GC seems to have followed through with his threatened ‘necessary steps’ and already taken one prized scalp, it might pay us to be on the cautious side in going forward. Nevertheless it be our duty to expose him for what he is, a man without scruples of the lowest order. We might be reminded also that this cad has no qualms at all about misleading well meaning folk like us with his pseudoscience and will stoop to any levels to save his own scalp..metaphorically speaking of course Gordon.
Julian: dunno bout the Bookmaker from Napal but, ‘London to a brick on’ would be the sort of odds I’d take against seeing PB back in action any time soon; that’s if ‘good on you Gordon’ has followed through with his threats of dire consequences for those committing trolling and name calling offences against him personally. As for exodus, that’s not a word we should be using just at present if you don’t mind.
Peteb. Apologies in order. Didn’t mean to invade your space with my irrelevant quasi quote response from GC on Alf Boxall’s hidden miniscule saturated Rubaiyat. Meantime you should get some well earned rest…best js
JohnS .. Gordon has some very strong views on secret micro-messaging and I feel obligated to pose a few questions about his theories from time to time but one problem I’ve had in the past is if I pose some questions on his blog he sometimes must lose them as they don’t appear on his page .. nevertheless I fortunately have the ability to question him on TBT whilst being careful to maintain a mannered attitude knowing well how sometimes he may interpret a pertinent comment as being designed to upset his order of things.
Peteb: best of British with your “mannered attitude” sport. I’ll take the low road if you don’t mind and try to maintain the rage within the bounds of pertinence as always.
@PB/JS – I’ve found that comments get moderated out on TSBS (the BS isn’t necessarily BlogSpot) if they challenge any ideas too strongly. Sometimes I have managed to sneak an anonymous comment through, although it is invariably followed by an attempt to dismiss those ideas, often with snarky or condescending comments snuck in trying to establish the superioir intellect of the blog owner and the incapability of we the people to think at his level (and sometimes downright attacking accusations of mental illness with some faux-concern – although I think he more often saves them for cross-site attacks on you guys).
For someone who claims to be an ex-copper and specifically a detective, he doesn’t seem to be very open-minded at the best of times. In fact for no very good reason other than the obvious it reminds me of the Phantom Tollbooth and getting to the Island of Conclusions…..
Julian: yes I’ve noted your polite “mannered” posts on GC’s BS site once or twice and admit to having some reservations as to intentions when first you appeared in these hallowed halls of wisdom. That is until realising that some of the great man’s slagging of unidentified contributors to BS/TS was likely to have been your good self. Sure hope you haven’t been included on GC’s long hit list the likes of Pelling and Abbott, or we lesser value muppet scalps set aside down for special attention. A reminder for you and others in the enemy camp not to miss Gordon’s ‘Danetta meets Carl Webb’ introductury offer on his revamped ‘anemptyglass’ blog coming soon.
Julian: I’m also kinda glad that PB didn’t have the moral fibre to publish my last blast directed to a specific target who’s capacity for BS be stuff of legend. It should not to be confused with Peteb’s own otherwise frivolous brand of self serving fun fact fiction that some indifferent easily lead Tbt punters seem to find amusing.
Julian .. The one question I would like to see GC attempt to answer is why Boxall didn’t get rid of the ROK? According to Gordon it was full of code and was being used by both Jessica and Alf who were exchanging Allied shipping information
And there he was handing it over to Stuart Littlemore with cameras running.
Julian: The one question I would like to see GC attempt to answer would be, why did he get Peteb to leak the news that “Gordon has SCOOOOORED” to coincide with his own announcement about finding code bearing script beneath the letter Q, and by doing so in such a brazen manner draw attention from those not fooled by his spurious claim.
@Pete – Didn’t think of that, but you’re right. I’m sure it will be dismissed as “…they were so confident their micro writes wouldn’t be seen….”. It’s funny how the microwriting invades everything (I think at one stage he was claiming it was all over the cover of Feltus’ book) – except the things that it couldn’t possibly be on because we’re just taking the p!55….
@John – I hope you’re joking re Danetta meets Webb (but I can’t help think there’s a chance you’re not). Maybe Danetta was another name for Dot, or Doff, or Dorofy or whatever…..
I think The page at that site that made me laugh the most was when he discovered Danetta. Don’t get me wrong, the original find was interesting, but then he ran the data through an online site that tries to find codes all different ways and seemed to think that all of the results indicated there was an even deeper code there. And then eventually extrapolated it to “the firs character from the left on the seventh line, then the 2nd character from the right on the 4th line……then squint a little bit….and….DANETTA!”
‘In closing, I have an extremely busy schedule over the coming months with a host of important issues to deal with so here this conversation ends from my perspective.’
Peteb : you will recall some time back when Major Moulds was put up as being undoubted author of the Jestyn Q70 endorsement in Alf Boxall’s ROK. That’s when you and Misca were called on to track down coconspirators named Harkness & Moulds in wartime England (1943) whom Gordon hoped would be instrumental to making his case for the Lawson inspired ship spotting hoax. Well guess what GC’s now back on the case but this time with Alf being brought in to head up operations whereas former head honcho Major William Jestyn Moulds MBE gets no mention.
Always wanted to know what that failed venture was all about (if it’s no trouble). just so’s I’m not left in the dark when things start getting complicated with the two Sydney bound target vessels USS New Orleans (in reverse) and HMAS Danetta, or was it HMAS Delorain.
…too late GC’s takrn it down along with his nine comments. Must have had a flash back to when last he tried that same Lurk on us before. Now I recall it was you Peteb what got the bums rush at Big Footy with your carry on over downed RAF Pilot Officer Moulds who turned out to be Leutnant Mouldes (?) of the flaming Luftwaffe…Remember?
JohnS, there are certain aspects of this case I am forbidden to mention, but let me assure you that the threats to Australia’s democracy were and have never been threatened, this is and has always been my task, to protect our precious heritage, indigenous people excepted .. so you may rest assured that I have the interests of Australia to heart, however as I’m sure you understand my exclusive knowledge of things mysterious regarding this case must forever be withheld from the public.
Ooops … there goes the red phone again.
….no my blunder; GC’s ship counting farce is taken from his off thread comments that relate to a long discredited re hashed overview of an earlier more expansive post covering grossly inaccurate US Heavy Cruiser movements in Sydney Harbour during WW2…Comment 2 ends with Peteb’s ‘In closing’ repeat performance of GC’s
fond adieu.
Peteb: there you go, being a true blue just like you I voted early and often then sent off my on line postals backed by IP’s from far and wide. Being a fair minded individual of unknown DNA typing, I selected my Yes/No non committal selections from an old Akubra slouch hat and so was both satisfied and disillusioned with the outcome. Long time since I saw a red phone or any other colour come to think of it.
Julian,
Welcome to the Anemptyglass Wikia: As of 14th October 2023, we are back!
THIS WEEK THERE WILL BE A NUMBER OF POSTS INCLUDING AN UPDATE ON THE CARL WEBB SAGA…WAS HE OR WAS HE NOT SOMERTON MAN?
1. TIBOR KALDOR LAST LETTER. ‘DANETTA ACROSTIC CODE FOUND & EXPLAINED
2. THE SOMERTON MAN CODE PAGE. ‘DANETTA ACROSTIC CODE FOUND (Again)
The above claims be intentionally unattributed which gives GC an out should he not live up to the promise of updates etc.
“An upturned mug a touch of class, a farewell message on the grass. To those that mock him as they pass, George Marshall tells em kiss my arse.”
BS/TS/GC fans,
Gordon advises anonomous clones and troll baiters alike that his cup overfloweth at present with unavoidable (Sapol?) demands on his valuable time. He therefore deeply regrets not being able to keep his word on the scheduled 14th Oct. start-up date for ‘anemptyglass’ but now pledging to treat us to the same stuff & nonsense to which we’re used at BS/TS, on 22nd inst.
Peteb: c’mon give us a hint at least on who this threatening personage might be. I’m thinking Ancora Imparo, over at Web Sloths as your unamed villain. He’s been talking up AB Carl Webb of the MV Golden Sun as his top candidate for Somerton Man which has a familiar ring to it. Seems like he’s impersonating a feller using a similar name over at Big Footy and/or GC’s BS/TS.
I don’t think all this obsession with him is healthy. He is a narcissist craving attention, and posting to his site (or even talking about him here) probably feeds his ego and his sense of self-import. He is only relevant in the conversation because people read his drivel and then talk about it (even if in the negative).
There was a time I thought it was worth keeping one eye on his site in case something sensible cropped up from it. Those days are long gone.
As long as we’re still talking about it, we’re losing (I’m not certain what, other than time and sanity).
oh, btw…One of my favourite GC related moments was when NP found “SEGA” miocro-coded in the Q…
Peteb: In other words you’d agree that @Ancora Imparo @ Dai Bach and a host of other aka’s used by your accuser who your not game to name is off his flaming melon..depite having 40 years of experience in divers business and management rolls and a degree from top ranked US Carnegie Mellon University.
ABC news to-day reports that social media regulators are reviewing a laxity in laws pertaining to a recent surge in offences involving the callous calculated circulation of misleading information by profit seeking online blog operators. Such being designed to cause emotional stress on unwitting subscribers to certain missing persons, and unsolved serious crime (cold case) websites..Not pointing the finger at anyone mind, though I’d implore that supporters of now targeted operations reconsider their allegences or get out of dodge in a hurry.
There are uniformed men at my door, they are shouting for me to come out .. hands raised, a window breaks .. a door explodes inwards, guns glint in the streetlights and black-suited men pile inside.
My wife screams, my dog is kicked away, whimpering, I stand at the head of the stairs holding my M134 7.62 x 51 mm NATO six barrel rotary machine gun.
Come and get I whisper, drawing a bead on an old gentleman with white hair and an air of bullshit about him.
Shit then happens.
NickP .
Come and get ‘me’ please .. maybe I’m getting overexcited
Ta
Pb
Peteb: maybe it’s so important for some people to kid themselves they’re onto something big that they end up doing all manner of stupid things.
When you’re a charter member of an organisation like AFIO expectations can at times be rather overwhelming in the desire to please. That right Flash?
@JS,
On cold case crimes.
I am often furious with NRK and the BBC over their Death in Ice Valley podcast. I had been sent original police files (the same ones they used) with the facts from 1970. But the BBC and NRK decided that the former small child of a fisherman (now over 50) talking about his dad being given a gun by secret service agents to defend himself against enemy agents was “fact”. The police evidence showed his dad was interviewed in 1970 by 1 policeman who I discovered ran a gun club for teenagers. The fact it was Christmas and the local gun club copper gave his dad a gun.. go figure…
I was even able to track down an 80-year-old who sat next to the woman who was the subject of their podcast. His name was visible in a book researched by a lawyer. No-one had ever contacted him – not even the lawyer. It would be like the police in the SM case saying “we never contacted anyone named Keane, why would we do that?”.
PB & NP,
Things are anraveling over at you know where. Our main man is himself going my ‘Anonymous’ not Dai Bach and todays message reads “Thanks for your support guys….”. Don’t know who the guys are but, one thing’s for certain, they aint anyone in our respective camps. I think the statement was intended as a duel purpose message which includes that his hacking problem with ‘anemptyglass’ was now resolved and that chapter one is on the board. A thorough going over of said site still only shows Sue Dimh’s (excellent) table of contents page which can still be searched, plus a heap of new catchy ads that someone in Fandom admin thinks will attract business. Pigs might fly too!!
Our old scammer caught on to his ‘Anonymous’ blooper and replaced it with Gordon ….but not before “the john sanders troll” spotted it took appropriate counter measures to verify the gaff.
Nick, it’s true. Some people here seem intensely deluded about themselves. Though when it happens on a high level of society, one must wonder what’s happening, and take precautions. I ordered a signed copy of The Unknown Man from an Adelaide store that never arrived here in America. I checked with the Post Office, and they’ said there were “irregularities” ” that day, but refused to investigate further. I don’t really know on whose end it lies, though if it looks like a thug and feels like a thug, it’s probably a thug. You can joke about owning a gun, but I want my goddam book! I have a feeling I would not be messed around with if I actually had one, which I don’t. Some people though here do though. These thugs better take heed or we will teach ‘em quicker than you can say Mary Queen of Scots. Keep laughing it up though.
@Matt – buy a digital copy 😉
@John: perhaps anemptyglass was hacked when he uploaded a picture without realising there was malware in the microcode….
Gordon Cramer’s Carl Webb saga part 1 is up and running at anemptyglass and full of the usual brief facts and figures from day one at Somerton Beach in 1948. All very interesting about tidal effects on the seawall, the strapper’s find at 6am then arrival of Jack Lyons, const. Moss, police ambulance (called in by some holidaying kid’s mum) &c. All pretty neat and trim til then; After which he jumps into the main task of putting shit on Derrick Abbott for his taking two bites of the cherry in having identified Carl Webb as the body whereas he had earlier claimed something else entirely..end of first part, and only one glaring mistake that I could catch him out on….see who finds it first.
Julian,
From what I can tell no ebooks of it are currently for sale, anywhere. Looking at it now you can “borrow” them. I would prefer to own it however. If you have a link, link can’t see I am interested. I am guessing not as Amazon has 2 copies at $363.
Anyone who thinks I lost my marbles, well a) your probably not wrong, and b) we started having a lot of these “carjackings” here near where I live, and that has never been “business as usual”. It’s never aussies that have given The US the business about our shootings and what not. It’s been those bloody, um folks “over there” in Uk land. I do wonder what would happen if actually did behave as people claim they want us to on this. I’m guessing part of our rationale for doing things the way way do them is looking out for our overseas bros. If people really want us to change, better be careful what you wish for,
Away from the soapbox, still not convinced about old Carl. Anyone done a poll?
@Matt – sorry you seem to be right. I had a digital (I think from Booktopia) but it’s showing unavailable now. my bad
@ Matt
Sorry to hear of your missing mail! On the borrowing front could you try an inter library loan? There are copies at Yale and the University of Texas!
@PB & Co – I had a look at GC’s latest video after all of the chat on here. I actually don’t understand how this can be a thing. Digital manipulation of a digital image of an old photo of a piece of paper? What do the codes supposedly say? And what could they supposedly represent?
I’m pretty convinced about old Carl but wonder what’s happening with formal identification!
Gorgon Anon: in re your heralding a surge in BS site visitor numbers including 300 from a single IP source in Vietnam, you must be feeling pretty pleased with yourself. I wouldn’t be worried about the possibility of catching transmissible diseases over the internet Gordon; that would defy the laws of physics, just as nonsensical claims that sub surface code ‘glyphs’ can be raised through single dimensional photo copies with application of guava juice and pangolin piss.
Peteb: just got the word from S. Coast: “Father’s had the Vauxhall serviced and intends heading off on a (vermin) hunting trip to Wiangaree on the morrow. We aren’t in the least concerned for his welfare, he’s armed to the teeth.” (Nick)
Julian and Jo, thanks, I will consider it, and shall pass it along to the family member whom is interested. I have one copy myself, though they are “rare as hens teeth” according to Worldcat, which was another reason I tried to make the investment in a second copy. It might be something folks want to consider themselves. Paper books are tangible objects which are easily “willed” should someone pass away, god forbid. Transferring digital assets is not as easy. Im going to keep buying those vinyls, cds and paper books for the most part myself. Then when some say “why doesn’t my password work, You and I will be saying, haha.
….Struth Gordon thats 3500 visits to your BS site in a year from Vietnam alone, surely you’re not complaining; but, if that’s what it takes to keep pace with your ‘deep fake’ Somerton fantasies it’s for a just cause. Meaning that the truth will prevail just so long as we a keep chipping away at your damned audacity with a determined resolve.
@Jo all of us naysayers have had exactly that problem with the microcode – you’re talking about revealing stuff that has been transferred across multiple media. Even if we believe what we’re looking at is a photo of the texta on the actual code page (there are other thoughts on exactly what the piece of paper we have a picture of actually is but at it’s simplest let’s assume it’s the actual code page covered with black marker), then what GC is doing is either incredibly revolutionary (to the point where you’d expect actual experts to be developing equivalent capability) or deludedly futile.
Over the years he has been challenged on *HOW* it’s possible to extract this information (and in particular *WHY* other blemishes or imperfections in intermediate media can be so easily removed) and his reply invariably is something along the lines of “You clearly haven’t followed my instructions, if you did you can reproduce it which proves it works”.
I guess for me the biggest thing with all the microcode rubbish is that the resulting jibberish needs to have been usefully decipherable in 1948 (perhaps with nothing more than a magnifying glass?). As far as I know (and I stopped paying attention to his “achievements” some time ago), for all the squiggles that have been found and purported to be “microcode” the only one that was even vaguely comprehensible was NP’s “SEGA” (I mean, apparently SEGA did sort of exist in the 1940s^ and was making games for military bases, so…..).
As I think I mentioned in another post, the microcode has allegedly infected almost everything that he thinks is useful even for a moment (including at one stage GF’s book cover), but conveniently can never be found elsewhere (thus conclusively showing that it is exactly what he thinks it is and not something somewhere between incredibly strong confirmation bias and downright fantasy).
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sega-Corporation
NOTE: I assume the 1952 rebranding to Service Games is where SeGa comes from, but why would we let too many facts get in the way of a good story?
Poor Gordon the Pooh…You don’t seem to understand that we plebes & trolls be not disbelieving of tiny writing possibilities perse, after all the style has been around since time immemorial…and we don’t doubt for a NY minute your deft hand ability to create similar works to well documented historical examples such as Gettysburg Address on a postage stamp and War & Peace on a sharp pin head (or vice verca). No not at all, it’s that you attribute your generic home brand offerings as being the work of secret agents the likes of Alf Boxall, Bill Moulds and Pavel Fedosimov that sets us to calling you out as a coniving snake oil salesman and with good cause too…wouldn’t you agree?
John Sanders. With the greatest respect I will not deal with your theories here. Please go to blog spot and make your own site. Then like me you too may become the doyen of the SBS and your works may also be quoted on the National broadcaster – I hope with attribution.
Peteb: I’ve been denied access to GC’s BS. I winder about you and Anonymous friends of the popular site. Could be the boss has left AfIO Aust. Bureau HQ and has started out on a long delayed lecture tour of southern states to re educate former believers on latest lifting techniques for photostatic text copies of 35mm developed prints, hands on demonstrations of progress in miniscule writing code decryption methods sans messy emulsions, plus discussing some brand loyalty
Issues of some concern. Wish I could be there for the show.
JS: Are u supplying the Lemon juice,?
One test for the ‘hold me closer tiny writer’ guy…
https://29a.ch/photo-forensics/#forensic-magnifier
With you brother, shit doesn’t happen without the I being before the T.
Gordon: thanks for the unsound advice, especially coming from a person of your own distorted and distracted state of mind. When first I was diagnosed as being a nutter (social cripple) like uour good self, Dr. Spragg my army shrink advised me to return to the scene of my unravelling and to “leave your guns at home son this time around”. I took Griff up on the first but must have forgotten t’other. Ended up giving my surviving piece to a Cuban mate Modesto, who collected info for DI and worked as a rat eradicator in my little barrio/ville. Still mad as a hatter of course but at least I’m much more sociable these days, as I’m sure you’ll concede… [insert gratuitous swear word here]
…sorry old ‘cock’ that’s my spelling let me down yet again. Any news on the good ship Golden Hind or was it Reteiver out of Frisco, Port Melbourne bound. Sure I mentioned the ship’s bugle boy Carl Webb found on Family Search who could well be your man, but unfortunately not a popular pick for Jerry Somerton with other punters on his trail.
Amazing new (perloined) research undertaken by Mr. Cramer has a Dr. John Berkeley [sick] Bennett and younger brother Richard Barkley [ sicker] Bennett, close relatives [sickest) of Carl Webb the butcher baker fiddle stick maker (not the like named able seaman off the Golden Vanity), being likely involved with providing salon hair to Paul Lawson’s bust making enterprise at West Terrace morgue circa. ’49. Wonder if he’s been picking up bits and pieces from “the John Sanders troll” and making a deliberate botch up of the facts for spite. As if any one give to hoots
Reading upon GC’s latest stale breaking wind on the use of salon hair in Paul Lawson’s one off plaster bust and glad that he didn’t see fit to give the original proposeur the promised heads up. Reason being I may have been mistaken to some degree in my nominating Hugh [sic] Pozza’s sister as the logical source. Seems that there were two business’ in down town Hindley St. having the name Mdm. Josephine’s at the time, one a fancy hair salon run by Ugo Pozza’s younger sister Angie t’other a high class bordello run by ‘Hugh’ for the CIB from Angas St.
I wonder is it likely that the hair used in the batter for fixing the PP bust was not from the salon but instead comprised stiffer moot hair from the other less refined establishment. Just a thought Mr. Cramer if you think of changing the terms of reference but, please say thanks this time.
“What do we have here” asks GC in his latest BS offering of a dark bent stroke. Actually….What we have here is a failure to communicate, Mr. Cramer!
The Gordon Cramer troll is usually content conversing with himself under the Anonymous badge, but occasionally Veritas, Dai Bach, Omnibus etc..are invited over to BS/TS for for a bit of boot licking or advice. When visiting other SM sites, depending on subject matter GC will post under plain Gordon or else alternate between bylines of his own fertile imagination including ZedX, Sqawk, Ancora, Imparo or Redacted (co-shared with his protege Peter Davidson). Then there’s Blue E whom he gets snotty with at times, either to highlight a point or to prove two identities. Questions anyone? didn’t think so, the man holds grudges.
Veritas 8 November 2023 at 06:52
Just read the exciting new information found on the troll haven blog. Yes they now
know about Clelands [sic] notes. You posted this 4 years ago and I noticed that you credited the source. No such professionalism found in troll haven.
Anonymous 8 November 2023 at 07:10
Yes saw that. One of their esteemed members, Behrooz? Provided a link to my google drive account where I have that document stored. Note that I didn’t provide that link in this post. I will review that situation.
Surely you can do better than that Gordon. ex We 8 November 2023 at 13:40 GMT.
Nothing heard from GC on his pledge to reveal all on BlueE’s finding of the much coveted and fiercely debated meanings in Cleland’s Notes. Perhaps he’s working on how best to cover his gaff re BlueE’s claimed discovery of November 2019 which formed the basis of his post on the subject. It being subsequent to my own on ‘anemptyglass’ which was hastily deleted upon his takeover of the site (with a little help from his ex friends) that month. Proof of my find may be seen in GC’s typical responses to being called out (see above) but when his bluff is called, silence follows (like now), until his ego driven self preservation takes over and a new lie emerges to expunge bad memory of the last. I’m still hoping that the person who collected the notes from S.A. State Library might himself step forward to reveal his part in the sting, thus leaving us to get on with our rudely interrupted Somerton Man investigation.
Armistice Day World War One. 11th Hour, 11th Day, 11th Month 1918 for “the war that will end war” as per the H. G. Wells quote of August 14, 1914, 109 years ago but, “was never intended to be taken seriously” according to Bertie Wells’ bio.
The Recessional by Kipling is used in Anzac & Armistice Day services..ie staza II >
The tumult and the shouting dies; The Captains and the Kings depart: Still stands thine ancient sacrifice, An humble and a contrite heart..Lord God of hosts be with us yet, Lest we forget—LEST WE FORGET!
Peteb: while we’re on the subject of aniversaries perse; I make it 906 days since the Jerdoze exhumation not 904 as you incorrectly assert. so you best re calibrate your accounting gizmo or, take the risk of getting caught with your ‘bags for office’ down when my big pay day comes aound, y’hear there.
Did Cleland hide stuff with microcode, or is there some Danetta hiding in there somewhere?
Just what a bloke needs, a bloody auditor checking his work, so ok, the newspaper date I was using was wrong … I’m an artist and take no heed of accuracy.
No One @Tbt: not unless you happened to be the guy that made the tooth chart based on his own first hand inspection of the subject’s oral cavity; That being Dr. John Matthew ‘Barb’ Dwyer path. who tendered it with his duly Sworn testament to Coroner Thos. Cleland at the SM death Inquest June 21 1949…Just so’s you know. Cheers mate js
Guzz Rating & Garo Ramadian,
Look again at the tooth chart fellas. All Jerry’s front teeth (upper and lower) be in situ. You pair could not be footy players of any code by my reckoning; if you had been yous’d know that, unless tackled by someone the likes of Artie Beetson or Ron Barassi, rear teeth (molars) are not going to get knocked out. A pretender such as this post’s celeb. would know that, so no wonder the mofo gave you the bum’s rush Garo my man.
JohnS .. I would appreciate it if you were gentle with my readers, small in number as they are compared to the millions that inhabit this site and not to mention the hundreds of thousands GC proclaims as his market share.
Unlike me, a partly literate roughneck like you, they may be dissuaded from further contributions given the abrasive nature of your responses …
Peteb: if only we had a hundred other fake accounts to make our measly websites look like hives of activity…
Peteb: good to see you getting the odd googly past the Bert Oldfield for a change. Having a mixed bag with me off wrong’uns but by and large I’m not complaining. Not sure if the Pat o rato inspired AAAA solution got put up; might be a goer, not for cert but..
….yep AAAA got up on the James Durham thread. Have a great pic of Jim and Jim Jr. on the beach at Glenelg if anyone be interested..
Hearty congrats. in order for Tomsby Two, and no one in particular courtessy of Gordon Cramer. Peteb’s Tbt being declared as being seconf best SM blog, and poster ‘No One’ being nominated as ‘Troll’ of the week for his invalidity claims
re Dr. Barb Dwyer’s post mortem dental chart in evidence before the ’49 Inquest.
Surpised with GC’s not having posted on Poppy Day this year, it being totally out
of character for such a strict in memorium observance chappie. Guess he must have more important things on his mind than ‘Lest we Forget’ symolistic platitudes.
Clive: not missing teeth perse, however there be incidents involving contact made t’wixed grinning All Black teeth and protruding Springbok fleshy high calf muscles connecting, accidently during rugby scrimmage.
Gordon C has just clarified me … what am I, butter?
Don’t believe it, just got meself dog bit on the left calf riding from home down to the river reserve. Mongrel never made at me until yesterday when he missed by a piss whisker same time same place. Probably me new set of wheels mit bright red frame or maybe mistaken ID on his part. Either that or else Clive jonah’d me but, just as well I had me a rabbies shot last year while visiting a mate up the Cross.
Sad news for those intending to visit ‘anemptyglass’ to interface with ex Sue d’Nihm’s SM site with it’s unique layout consisting of easy find multi subject headings. Reason being that upon Mr. Cramer’s rebirthing of said site (for a second time) and having noted my recent critique, he has cleverly taken it upon himself to start over with a dirty slate and expunged all existant vestages of the punter friendly blog. Now in it’s stead GC has seen fit to reduce the subject criteria from forty to four categories. Three comprising data on his deep fake underlying Rubaiyat codes eg., *^%$#÷£€₩)(@¥₩ includes some existing ROK content for referal purposes, plus Gordon’s own take on “The Carl Webb Saga”.
Anonymous has the temer to say on BS/TS even date, in reponse to mine of 17th inst. that the ‘anemptyglass’ subject fomat remains true to its Sue d’Nihm origins.
Could have fooled me Mr. Cramer.
For a moment there I thought Gordon was refering to Pope Alexander VIII the nepotist, reminds of the times GC puruaded his own children Nickolas and Willow to play lead rolls in one of his deceptions But of course his last posted four liner on leaves, (not leaves like leaves on trees, but talking leaves),by the great papist poet Alexander Pope has nought to do with his banter on SM’s deformed ears. Speaking of deformities, Pope was a hunch back and of short stature to boot hence his popularity with certain ladies of the court, who made the most of his handicap by getting under the skin & noses of the elite social climbers and intellegencia. Adversaries took many forms, protestant visionaries being his favourites who were no match for his use off satirical plays on words. Many fine examples of his witisism can be found in ‘An Essay on Critisism’ that may includr GC’s misunderstood ‘leaves’ quoth that carries no warning lesson at all. Unlike his profound all time best seller on fools rushing in where wise asses &c.,. what made Elvis his first million…End of the day Ackers Pope was indeed the funniest short ass of his time, and perhaps any time either before or since, apart from C. Gordon Cramer of course.
gc: quid, me vexari? …. and a big Peepee Poopoo to you and Popee too too!
At last the 44 ‘anemptyglass’ categories once loaded with comments have been reinstated. In that Gordon Cramer has little interest in their content It remains to be seen how long they remain in situ. Should serve to keep him to his “word” for awhile, meantime people might try a post and see if they get past security. I’ve tried but the welcolme mat isn’t out.
Anonymous,
Can’t say I agree with your decision to do deals with the devil but, I do see your point in respect of GC’s stance against Derek Abbott’s FB Carl Webb identity and blind followers across the board. I don’t put myself in this same league for a NY minute and never have, proof being my cry fake post when ABC put to air it’s preview of Australian Story on 21st November 1922 with their shopped ‘Webbs’ photograph of Grandad, Grandma, Charlie & Roy. Gordon will have you believe otherwise which is it style and of course he has his so called Anons. to back him. Lets hope you don’t fall into that category TSM man.
Who cares whether the original 44 ‘anemptyglass’ categories were up or down at a particular point in time. It being unlikely punters give a hoot should truth lose out end of the day, let’s call it a lost cause for GC’s credibility and my own popularity.
Not sure how it will effect GC’s reputation but he’ll find out when he begins to unravel the hidden meaning to the strings of miniscule ‘script’ concealed deep beneath the Rubaiyat code page lettering, in coming days. Apart from that he’s informed faithful alter egos Dai Bach, Omnius, Veritas, anors that he has sought assistance of a crypt-analyst, presumably to plan his burial deep enough to cover his bad ass and help atone for a life of lies.
What reputation? I think there are very few puppies left lapping at his feet and most people with even an iota of knowledge of the case don’t really listen to ideas from that corner any more. In a funny way, I think he knows it too – which is why he constantly demeans rather than discusses opposing views and constantly makes comments like (very paraphrased) “…the people who disagree with me don’t know what they’re talking about” – constantly implying that only people who believe in his micro stuff understand the first thing about research and (somewhat ironically) insisting that everyone else jumps to conclusions rather than researches (insert story about Danetta and how results from a crypto cracking site were totally misinterpreted (to be absolutely fair, I don’t think it was a deliberate attempt to deceive, but rather making conclusions from data that seemed to be totally misunderstood)) . I’ve often seen people make perfectly good points challenging some of the theories on TSBS and they’re shut down with sometimes ludicrous responses – clutching at straws to protect the pet theory (I would hope a “good” researcher would take such criticism on board and seek to investigate and explain (open to the possibility the idea might not have been right) rather than just shut down the challenger or modify the theory so that it’s even less plausible.
I suppose I should give him some credit for effort (he does seem to invest a lot of it, even if directions I wouldn’t travel). But I guess all the effort in the world is meaningless when it’s invested in the wrong places. Something about the road to hell…..
I probably should take my own advice – because giving those ideas any air time (good or bad) probably only serves to feed his ego and potentially keep some people casting eyes in that direction.
Hi Gordon, any news from authorities in the USA re Carl Webb off the Golden Hind?…..didn’t think so, but be sure to let us all know when you have anything positive, so’s we can think about taking Derek’s imposter Carl off our short list of remaining SM suspects. Cheers
Always have been interested in the Somerset Man. I looked up missing men in Australia in 1948 newspapers, thinking perhaps the Somerset Man could be someone that could have suffered amnesia.
I happened across a newspaper article in The Northern Star dated 29 September 1948 listing a missing man from New Zealand. Name of the man was William Trevor Gibson. A 44 year old accountant reported by his wife who lived in New Zealand to be missing. She received communication from her husband William from Coffs Harbour on Aug 3 1948 and from Grafton on Aug 16 and Aug 21 but has not since heard from him. It is thought the man might be traveling north. Gibson’s description is 5’9″ 44 years old, fair complexion, medium build, light brown hair any one knowing whereabouts to call Lismore police. The torn piece of paper found in his pocket was from Rubiyat book Tamud Shad supposed from The words had been torn from a rare New Zealand edition of The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam .
Gordon Cramer,
Belated thanks be in order for your decision to re introduce my oft mentioned scullery hand Carl Webb. He started out as a ship’s bugle boy about 1913 and went on to better things, the pinnacle of his career being a steward or purser. You might in your related follow-up revelations throw light on how your sailor man fits with Abbott’s Facebook Charlie and/or has any bearing on the SM case whatsoever……Your end reference to my very own original rather intuitive multi submission SM fingerprint form synopsis, one of which you lay claim to, sorry I fail to see the problem but, If you feel that my well intended initiatives on the subject be somehow beholden to thee, then l propose that anyone who cares, break out in raptuous applause…Gordon has SCOOORED runs on the bored [sic].
I was speaking to a researcher on the weekend whose ggfther was a steward on a ship to Australia – I tracked down where he had his photo took in Sydney before 1899.
Carl Webb 2 – ship’s steward/purser.
Hubert Cyril Reynolds – ship’s steward/purser and in my opinion became accountant in Melbourne buying his Phoenix Hotels.
Coincidences. Yes.
Sorry to rain once more on your charade Mr. Creamer but truth be known, Alf Boxall was never “skipper” aboard any Water Transport vessel identified with in his time with RA. He was initially an instructor with SME (land based) then as an engineering officer on Small Ships until demobed.
Gordon Cramer is as expected also tad late on the uptake with todays stale news on “The Gentleman of Heliograd”. For a more accurate account of that case which includes the M & S tie and iron shoe lasts etc., folks might refer to ‘Lorde Cobs’ own somewhat dated coverage of 11/12/23 @ ‘On The Trail of Dorothy Robertson’.
No telling what surprise might be in store for a dude what forgets to pay for his made to measure Marks & Spencer niche footware. I’m wondering could Jerry Somerton have had similar memory loss with his bespoke Derby’s and paid the ultimate price for his lapse, as did the aforesaid ‘Gentleman’ of Heliograd, so it would seem.
Atticus Minor: How’s about instead, we simply faze out the two suspect groups, namely Jimbob and Shokenaw, then test the remaining Anonymous plaintext for any traces of substance or realism re Gordon Cramer’s Danetta load of cobblers?
Mr. Cramer…shadow boxing with your own “Anonymous” alter ego re Doc.Dwyer’s foolproof PM inspired tooth chart of 2/12/48, be merely a ruse to set up an escape route should one be needed. Say it isn’t so mugger!
Mr Cramer… We can forget your cute literal “Quo Vadis” translation as per KJV 13:36. In the case of Somerton Man, ‘Q-V’ would seem metaphorically appropriate for inquiring, “where are you going with this contrivance?” response in my opinion being, ” Up or down yon garden path as required”.
GC: betcha life I’m not the only honest researcher fell victim to your ruthless uncompromising plagiarism over the years. Can’t help having a quiet chuckle over your audacious lecturing to Anon. of even date mate, berating against such preditorial online activities of which you of course be the apitome. I do wish you well but please take my advice and seek help before AI comes a calling on you of all people.
Just to remind you good folks …The Rubaiyat shared by Jessica and Alf was not for the purpose of secret messaging, according to GC the book’s purpose was purely educational in that it was used by them to practice various codes.
That’s one.
Next we have GC stating that he has never promoted the idea that Alf and Jessica used to exchange information about ship traffic in Sydney Harbour – it now appears that idea was promoted by the late Paul Lawson and repeated in a comment by Clive.
That’s two.
Thank you and good evening.
Peteb: thanks for that important information; No need to remind GC, Clive and your good self of Paul Lawson’s 106th birthday couple of days hence.
We’re all getting old and no doubt not as sharp as when we were detectives in our prime. Two glaring errors in your last post GC if you don’t mind. First being that Jimmy Durham took his photos of the mortuary body on day three, a day following Doc Dwyer’s PM autopsy and not straight after as you imply. Second point being that the bloody shirt mentioned in “Cleland’s Notes” could not have been as one with that described by police on the morning of discovery. If you think really long and hard, you may recall that on his day at the beach SM had been in fact wearing a white collarless shirt with separate collar attached by a press stud. Now that your wise, you might care to tell the BS team that it was former Sanders what gave you the the whole truth and nothing but! You take care now old feller me lad…y’hear?
@JS,
Jimmy D was supposed to be a fingerprint expert.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/129903595?searchTerm=%22Jimmy%20Durham%22
“On Friday 3 December Police Photographer and Fingerprint Expert Patrick James Durham, who was stationed in Adelaide, attended the City Mortuary with Mounted Constable Knight. Knight opened a large refrigerator door and partially pulled out the steel stretcher and said, ‘That is the body of the man found dead on the beach at Somerton on the 1st of December, 1948”
“Durham and Knight then removed the stretcher and body, and placed it on a stainless steel autopsy table. Durham performed the difficult task of obtaining the fingerprints of the deceased. This required applying ink to the very stiff fingers and then transferring the imprints by a rolling method to the official form for future classification and comparison.”
“Normally the identity of a deceased person is established by fingerprints, dental records, description, clothing, documents, personal identification, media releases and so on, and sometimes a combination of these. Analysing the specimens obtained during an autopsy would require some time to produce results. Even then they may not confirm the poison theory. Nevertheless, it would be reasonable for the police to have assumed that the deceased would be identified quickly, and if poisoning was confirmed then he more than likely committed suicide”
On 3 January 1949 the official documentation containing photographs and a set of the deceased’s fingerprints were forwarded to all police departments in Australia. Fingerprints were specifically classified and categorised by fingerprint experts using world standardised methods. This method was adopted to streamline manual filing, retrieval and matching. It was only a matter of a few days before all the reports returned with a negative result in respect to the fingerprints and relevant missing person files”
“Copies of the official reports generated and of the deceased’s fingerprints were posted to all English-speaking countries on 21 December 1948.”
“During January 1949 notification about the deceased’s fingerprints were received from the selected countries. They all proved negative.”
But they didn’t seem to check the suitcase was the guy on the beach with fingerprints. They relied on the ‘thread’ match. Testing the RoK for fingerprints wasn’t mentioned in newspapers.
In the 1970 Isdal woman case they matched the fingerprint on the glasses in the suitcase with the fingerprint on the hand. Supposedly taken 7/8 days after the body had died. Though the pathologist had said death on the 23rd was unlikely.
But it is strange no such match was sought with the suitcase for ‘Jerry’ or any pieces of paper in his suitcase.
In theory you could plant the thread in the suitcase and claim a match. It is only the Keane tie that makes it more likely it was Carl Webb’s.
They also only seem to show the public the clothing items years later on TV shows. Yet these would be the best way to identify the owner – e.g. if Leo said the dressing gown was Carl’s cos I gave it to him for Christmas. The RoK seemed to be the most trivial thing to pursue – and not to ask the public to identify their relative from the clothes in the suitcase (not just the Keane tie). At least with the Pyjama girl they made more attempts to get the public to identify the pyjamas in cinemas. OK they were the wrong ones but at least they made the attempt.
They made the same mistakes in Norway with the Isdal woman – they had all the clothes and photographed an umbrella, a swatch of a shawl and the boots she had just bought. It would be impossible for a relative to recognise the umbrella or boots as she had just bought them a few days before.
The same with the SM some items in the suitcase may have been recognisable if the relatives had seem them in a newspaper or cinema in 1949 not wait until they were all dead.
GC: Oh dear me Gordon, we are indeed getting old when we forget important things we refer to on our own web site, ie., “…he had also been wearing a “white shirt & collar”, info copied from the Adelaide Mail’s news description of SM’s attire on the day of discovery no doubt; Could have made it easy on yourself by not mentioning the collar studs in your latest BS post but seems fools never learn. At least you had sense not to to try explaining away your earlier Durham mortuary attendance gaff; perhaps there is some hope if you seek help soon. Wish you well as usual.
Peteb: Culpret said to be a Greek born ex Darwin Hospital orderly and dyed in the wool necrophniliac after a nice peace of slab meat, deceased being recovered next morning apparently no worse for wear. Not the same monster as one in 1951 who gained entry via an open mortuary window and slashed a deceased female whom he may have known in life according to police. I did write about this chap on GC’s perloined Anemptyglass blog years ago, perhaps he’ll be kind enough to dig it up and share it with folks at Tbt, can’t see why not.
Don’t ask me, mate, I’m just another ‘plagiarising, narcissist troll’ .. so judged by the spotless Gordon Cramer. Some nights I’m unable to sleep.
Why are people so cruel?
DM: for all we know, the suitcase and contents were dusted but it may not have been prudent to let the public know if “… any match was sought (or obtained) with the suitcase for Jerry ………” or not. I can think of any number of reasons why Safcol hierarchy might have opted for discretion, especially in that the matter remained unresolved when the inquest was convened. Not withstanding, We might rest assured any fingerprints obtained other than Jerry Somertons would have been revealed to the coroner pre hearing and his approval sought for non disclosure, on undertaking that results would serve no purpose at that juncture.
You have to laugh that mounted constable Knight ‘of Truro’ was involved. Did he have to use the horse?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/30859195?searchTerm=%22lawson%22%2C%20%22taxidermist%22
Paul Lawson’s idea of mounted?
Margaret Gilpin of the Children’s Museum became Sinclair lived until 2000 in Brighton.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/36402759?searchTerm=%22margaret%20gilpin%22
Not the rich Gilpin family I guess.
DM: Mr. Cramer of BS/TS does not concur with your long accepted method for fingerprinting of deceased persons, but each to his own and best practise can depend to some extent on the FP form layout. There also be a somewhat more gruesome though at times convenient procedure that works particularly well on a damaged body if undertaken during autopsy with assistance of the attending pathologist.
Mr. Cramer: sure looks like the sanders troll has called your bluff on two most recent points of order, namely time frame differential for morgue attendance of Dr. Dwyer & Jim Durham’s; plus your ‘shirt & collar’ own goal, leaving you with egg on your face and no option but to pull the plug in order to deny the fake former detective of victory … and not for the first time either.
Always wondered some about the might & plight of MC Knight, hero of Truro and former trail scout riding point with the Leane team. As to where he parked his mount whilst on duty one can only wonder; Whilst there is no hitching rail in old mortuary pics, a tall breather or exhaust pipe extending from the ground upward alongside the west wall, might have been ok for a plodder used to the smell of decay.
Fair ‘nough Gordon, want I should go two steps further and give specific locstats for the nominated posts you and your alter ego Atticus deny existence of. Or do you prefer to modify them in order to soften the impact. I believe I’ve got your measure otherwise, an ain’t no Boo Radley a comin to tha rescue this time ‘roun no siree!
GC: I can can tell by the smell that you want to get to hell out of here but you only have your anonymous (self) to blame for reintroduction of a hacknied old conversation. As I’ve explained quite clearly on more than one occasion, Your “white shirt & collar” information was taken presumably from the Mail’s SM story of 1/12/48 that included worn attire which you accepted and posted on your fact based site, but now chose to deny knowledge.
GC: This snippet re SM’s possessions taken from your own Somerton Man site and presumably your layout listing clothing worn when found; plus for anyone that be interested, a verbatum re run of your silly ‘own goal’ in that both Dr. Dwyer and Jim Durham were performing their assigned duties at West Terrace morgue on the same day ….hopefully with your kind permission.
His Clothes
Brown fawn trousers (Stamina ………….)
White shirt with collar
A tie (red white and blue)
A brown knitted pullover
A grey brown double breasted coat
Heavy knitted socks
Brown lace up shoes (clean and polished)
Jocky pants (slightly soiled)
Anonymous 5 August 2024 at 18:31
Walk through the events. The body is delivered to the morgue an an (sic) autopsy is carried out. Jimmy Durham photographs the body. To do that the body fresh from the autopsy, has to be lifted and the shirt put in place…It is more than likely that the bloodstains to the shirt happened then. It is highly unlikely that they were the result of an unclean body tray or a swapped body
@BS Cramer,
@BS/GC: Seems to be a tad too hot for you in the devil’s kitchen all of a sudden Mr. Cramer; especially with dubious claimed inabilty to syncronise your Ipad so it be compatable with Google and WordPress. ’bout time you realised we at CM are long used to your sociopathic pretence of identifying with a host of Baltic based alter ego’s and Anons much closer to the Qld’s Sunshine Coast. You’all stay safe now y’hear.
Peteb: bit behind the times with commentary on GC’s Danetta Code book release. Respectfully suggest you go back to his BS thread of June 2022 when international sales of the first two editions of the same title were said to be on Amazon’s best seller list.
Well noted, and I’m only too happy to assist him in doing some fact checking on various aspects of his book.
I stand by my words Gordon, you should know that by now. time you stood by yours for a change with your extended double trouble perversions. That be the clue to solving your own word for word ‘white shirt with collar’ part description of SM’s clobber inclusion. Don’t let the memory lapse thing get you down and be reminded to stick with the ‘oldtimer’ therapy nudge nudge no wha’ I mean?.
Think I’ll let GC aka anonymous stew in his own juices for a bit before I reveal the cunning deception. Call my bluff all he want’s but it ain’t gonna come off and that’s a promise folks…Jest don’t let’s forgit now, “White shirt with collar” courtesy of Gordon Cramer.
If you don’t mind your online security being comprised, then by all means take the bait and open any links recommended by Gordon Cramer, especially those connected to his own sites or those of his well known affiliate partners in grime.
Of course we can expect neither an apology nor attribution denial directly or via the Cramer BS “Fact Biased” proposition that Doc Dwyer & Jim Durham attended West Terrace morgue on the same day. Concocted as a means to garner support for a devious continuity scenario but which never happened, as has been proven.
Gordon Cramer,
Let there be no mistake, despite lame denials and stubborn back peddling, you as owner and publisher of the almost totally depleted ‘anemptyglass’ site, seem to have laid claim to anything of interest left by it’s original creator Sue d’nimh. This may, it seems have including the inclusion of a “white shirt with collar” amongst other items of apparel worn by the dead man. That being the case, you have then claimed ligitimate full title to authorship of same by default. Such being defined by a sad history of uninhibited pliagarism. Many thanks GC, almost gave up all hope of you coming to your senses…now if you don’t mind Jimmy Durham can be put to rest if you please.
GC: does that mean to say that you no longer wish me well or take better care of myself, and seek help. Mummy would surely be disappointed in your uncomely change of heart and Daddy likely to take the matter further if he were able.
Anon: you dared give affront to GC on his own blog and you got away with it which makes you a better troll than I. As for the subject of your slight Francis Hughes, bn. 1925 (23/24?) and who inlisted into the AIF in 1942, he was not an intel. operative of Code Breaker credentials as GC would like us, along with his dupes to believe, but merely a supernumary corporal in the C.I. Bureau who spent a year in Singapore post war overseeing War Crimes Commission death sentences and made Sgt. on discharge in ’48. Don’t let the peak hat fool you, F non com Frank must have borrowed it from his orficer.
No not me GC and I don’t think Peteb could bother either. In fact there is only one Troll I can think of that spells you with an upper case Y and that’s you old cock.
GC: pleased to have you point “lie after lie” in my reponse to your self serving attempt to elevating Frank Hughes the teenaged soldier to almost Sidney Reilly ace of Spy status that be well above his rather mundane duties as a corporal attached to Intelligence Corps, then later as observer witness with the Japanese War Crimes trials. Should you care to browse through Frank’s war film archival pics, there be one in particular depicting a time honoured quick cure remedy for those wanting relief from adverse physical effects of relentless online haranguing. PS: be warned that state Police in general don’t take complaints of persistent litigants seriously, especially those iminating from crooks cranks and mental retards.
Puting things into their proper perspective GC; for one Frank was a kid who lied about his age to join the AIF in 1942. He learnt to march and salute anything that that moved along with thousands of his young peers at RTB Dubbo depot and so learnt little or less about Intel. Corps work. By the time Frank got to 21 Henry St. Brisbane (Nyrimbla) Central Bureau in 1943, set up by Macarthur’s hand picked team of US code breakers with its bank of wiz bang Sigaba computers, a teenaged bakers son like Pte. Hughes was not going to be much use in deciphering military codes imo. Guess you knew that Frank was still under voting or drinking age by end to hostilities in August 1945, then he left DEI for duties with the hang-em-high team of Jap war crimes judges in Singas. Stay well if you must & seek help Gordon.
Yep Anon. GC sure did have the Alf Boxall Sha’ir Omar thread mid @2016 from memory but it didn’t stay put for long. No matter, I was able to pick up the very same 50s Singapore copy as his on line for nix though can’t confirm paper quality from a download. Anyone need one for themselves, I’m happy to Sha’ir the full contents download instructions for a small favou, ie., insist sly Gordon put up or shut on his BS claim to Alf Boxall’s Australasia Publishing Co. Ruby having been printed on coated intented code compatable paper in 1944.
…(50s Singapore) copy… indented code, to be correct.
I’m sure I’ve mentioned Sha’ir Omar author many times in the past, but just to reiterate appropos my friendly response to GC’s purposely brief comment on Alf Boxall’s book. Arthur Wedderburn, the British born author spent many years in Australia writing and teaching Bahasa Malay, most notably to sappers of Alf’s own SME unit at Liverpool from 1943 onwards, so purchase of his ’44 edition makes for some debate. A W Hamilton 1887-1967 has seven publication copyright entries in NAA inc. Sha’ir Omar from 1944, and one for his security intel. clearance on arrival in Perth from Singapore pre war (jap). To keep things in sync. with FB Webb fans, he died at Cottesloe aged 70 and his remains are c/o of Karrakatta Crematorium.
A. W. Hamilton was the author’s pen name which fits well with his birth name too.
My blunder. A. W. Hamilton was 80 when he passed, not 70 sorry.
GC: pleased to see that you’ve finally opted to support my original oft touted line of negative thought regarding dependence on a single lonely rootless bust hair to support the Derek Abbott/Colleen Fitz. dubious contentions for Carl Webb being Somerton Man. Glad also to hear you’re taking time off from your own gaffs and other lies e.g., that Alf & Jestyn could have had spy links to the “Soviet Embassy Sydney”…Think about that while your laying back in your Jason recliner and hang in there .
Cryptic subtle reminder to Anons. from GC (on leave) that the US Democratic party convention in Chicago be underway and Kamala Harris set to accept nomination as Presidential contender. Don’t expect any updates on Danetta releases during the next four days of praise for sleepy Joe Biden’s lifelong achievment to…????
Get the feeling of “losing ground” Gordon. Such a shame, must be the work of your alter egos and anonymous mud slinging surrogates. All part of the Cramer blame game no doubt.
Note of thanks to GC for his efforts in helping us to inform others as to the truth of Colleen Fitzpatrick’s Estralla MCC’s dubious claim of having identified Somerton Man, with one single degraded, hair sample plucked from a plaster bust that had for years been on public display. Not to worry that several CM threads have covered most, if not all of the same ‘borrowed’ details in GC’s recent post, his contribution does make continuity to enable Anon. BS/TS mud slingers a share of the spoils….NB: note GC identifies Astrea Forensics in his references to Estralla MCC presumably, honest gaff and to be expected of an honest injun.
Looks very much as if PeteDavo @ Redacted supported by GC @ zedx have hit on another prime candidate for SM. He being an apparently undocumented German born ex nazi (?) 1948 arrival to Australia. A letter claimed to be from his son crafted in the style reminiscent of an anonymous GC alter ego, be posted on the Big Footy blog for discerning but, as usual with their stuff and nonsense a decent loupe might be needed to overcome the tiny print and blur effect.
Kurve @Big Footy,
You’ll be pleased to know, that according to BS Gordon Cramer’s recent Chat Box AI scoring for the five active Tamam Shud blogs, BF equalled top score of 9/10 for the post updates regularity category. According to my sans AI truth seeking countback from January 1st 2024, Big Footy TS recorded a grand total of 15 non admin posts; seven from Gordon Cramer (inc. clones), six from GC’s well known surrogate Redacted (Petedavo) and a pair from an unidentified source, likely a clone of the latter. So on the whole BF came a distant second to TS/BS/GC with NP/CM, PB/Tbt and DB/FB battling it out for the bronze medal Congratulations to all for their contributions.
Now that GC is into the rating game with some help from AI Crapbox, he might in the spirit of fairness to the also rans, extend the competition to include his own second string contender ‘Anemptyglass’ which was still empty last time we checked.
@JS,
The problem with the grown DNA is it is generic. It’s not an individual. You can’t match a single person to it. So you have to sift the 8000 genealogy potentials.
It is Somerton Median man. The man in the middle.
I suppose with the exact DNA you get another problem is people may not be who you think they are. Carl’s mother might have also had a thing for the butcher and the candlestick maker and not just the baker.
I still suspect the Webb sisters are twins. But why lie? Unless you wanted one to start work aged 12 and not 14. When they played their ragtime music together in Camperdown people would have said the Webb twins.
Good Lord, that comparison exercise is certainly in insight into a narcissist.
News from the traps be that Chris Cramer, not satisfied with AI top ranking overall, but less than 100% for his TS/BS blog courtesy ChatBbt, has opted to start a new Anonymous membership only site to fill the gap left following the embarrasing failure of Anemptyglass. Rumour has it that the new SM venture will be by subscription only and have a catchy title eg., THE DANETTA CAPERS.
Josh: you should know by now that your posts won’t pass muster with Gordon’s Admin. when inferring that their Anonymous blog thief be a charlatan, plagiarist, sociopath [etc], even though such views be honestly perceived.
Besides TS/BS itself being the leading SM fact based site according to latest Chat AI reviews they would hardly need reminding would they. Stay safe and Seek help.
I’m deeply beholden to GC for not claiming my first spotter’s rights on the hastily altered Webb family photo handwritten endorsements between the promo and ABC presentation later the same day. What GC obviously missed be that names Grandpa, Charlie, Grandma & Roy are in the same hand not rewritten but moved.
Note that the bottom centre ‘Webbs’ sign off unlike the given names is not as one with the underlined version, above right on the promo clip..see similarly worded post of 19/11/22 from memory.
So much for GC’s break from the daily grind of fact based fantasy posts in order to complete his long anticipated Danetta code cracking trilogy. Truth be known he never missed a beat, same daily BS/TS schedule as usual, reminds of many such guises to stay out of the SM kitchen if it gets too hot for comfort. So looks like a false alarm and we’re back to the regular grind of GC’s fact based fantasy to keep us in fin humour..PS. in case you missed it Milongal, looks like your old saddle nosed comrade Pavel Fedosimov is rumored to be making a do or die SM contender come back so be prepared.
GC: best explain to your anonymous self that, for starters there be less than about 250 no ID graves insitu at WT cemetery and scores less going by grave registration records. As for suggested body switching with individual burials, we’re never likely to know…except for one of course and you of all people won’t need reminding who that is (no not Pavel) Can’t be any doubt that all need to know eyes were on Jerry Somerton from day one of his discovery at XMTS until his privately sponsored interrment in June ’49 and beyond. You can go tell your anonymous false witness to get with the program quick like, or else risk losing BS/TS’ Chat AI top ranking to a previous non contender such as TSM/SMUG/TDL
I’ll own that my overall negative opinion of GC’s investigative expertise be not new. Seems his acumen for creating his cold war spy theories derive from Verona Files fact sheets borrowed from AFIO or, in the case of SM perloined from John Ruffles ’78 documentary notes. We are now being treated/subjected to yet another of the man’s tedious overviews perloined from the Webb pics and accompanying tired commentary that have formed the mainstay of CM and other dedicated sites since time imemorial. On the up side I’m hoping that a cunning tea leaf like GC or Anon. might take my recent lead on apparent misidentification of Leslie Scott in the Webb family shot; the one taken on Grandpa’s 70th birthday at Werrobee circa. 1936.
Anyone up for a bit of humour; don’t miss the last two posts on the Web Sloths blog from a while back yet still topical by Tbt’s standards. Author Alcora Imparo aka Gordon Cramer, raises topics such as salon hair used by his late mate Paul Lawson as fixer for the SM plaster bust, plus an interesting item with photos of a seafaring version of SM imposter Carl Webb, off the good ship Golden Hind?
Cannot tell a lie Gordon, twas I that spotted your torn “3” pic with the missing names and blanked out Charlie image. It was displayed as a promo on air before the ABC doco and I brought it to the attention of all and sundry same day. Sorry you can’t recall, gets to be a habit for some in their twilight years, Anyhow hope you’re well as can be and if not don’t delay in seeking help y’hear.
Milongal: no real purpose in replying to feckless Gordon Cramer, merely gives him all the more desire to stroke his enormous EGO when “fact” checking any future “Eeyore/Pooh Bear” (remember) posts perloined from CM and/or Tbt. Christopher Gordon Cramer, as he prefers to be known these days, based on his doubtful academic accreditations, doesn’t seem to get it that by adding new agendas to his tired decrepit blog’s old format, the level of BS be raised to new levels giving we muppets (GC’s label) all the more reason to chuckle over.
Chuckle? I’m laughing.
CGC: Biggest problem with your new ‘fact check’ segment be that you’re better known for inventing the facts to suit your fancy, not disproving those of others. Perhaps you could employ some talent with ability to distort true facts to suit the occasion. Stephen Hurwood has such talents in abundance and his services come cheap as you’d be aware.
Clive: you reckon TRoLL might be a bridge too far?
CGC: in re your latest serving of utter tripe, you won’t believe that radium therapy along with other chemo be still in demand and recommended for post operative treatment by oncologists at top cancer hospitals eg. St. Vincents (Kinghorn centre) in Sydney. Perhaps your long time adviser on medical evaluation Byron Deveson might be free to provide you with some fact based home on the chequered history of radium medicine from from pre Xray use til the present.
While you’re on board and considering your next defensive initiatives, I may as well remind you once more, from memory, that Harold Rolfe North, stand in witness for R. Craig at the ’49 inquest was part of the extended Craig family after the death of his father and was known variously as Rolfe, Rolf and Ralf Craig before his marriage
to Iris Cecily who survived him. As for my spotter’s claim on the Webb family photo, sorry if I put you to any bother trying to find my post of the “photo shopped’ pic on CM, Actually I posted early elsewhere pm. on 17/11/22 in order to beat Pat Valle and her FB rat pack. If you go back on CM to my follow up posts of 18th instant you’ll find absolute proof of my having noted the picture in dispute, ie., “Grandad” Webb’s dickie striped tie. Hope that helps with the failed fact check SNAFU Chris.
Hope you’ll take this wise old retarded detective’s advice and seek help soonest.
CGC: Poor old soul, hard of hearing no doubt. No use searching CM wayback for my “photo shopped” comment. As stated on my post above, it was in fact sent elswhere (Tbt) in a strategic move to prevent crooks like you from getting in on the break and puting it up with an ammended time as you’re best known for doing.. If you follow through and find what you’re looking for in the right place it’ll be no mean feat for you Mr. Chris Cramer.
CG:C:: more than hilarious but oh so typical of your spineless attemps in trying to cover for your feckless devious lies. I would have replied earlier if CM had not have been down. Anyhow in my own defence of your new factcheck farce I have tried to explain on more than one occasion that Harold Rolfe North’s mother Ellen was be nee Craig, yes same surname as R. Craig the cloakroom attendant, on whose behalf Harold Rolfe North substituted at the inquest, probably just coincidence eh. As for my Webb brief ‘photo shopped’ post, you seem to have confused the dates and relevence to the two Webb photos to suit your fake fact check agenda, which be of no consequence seeing as you’re only talking to yiur evil ego anyway. Get a life be my best advice and please, whatever you do, don’t seek help, better you reap the consequences of your life choices Chris.
Peteb: @Gordon had me on tenterhoooks when he couldn’t find my pre Doco photo shopped family Webb snaps posted on CM. Thought it must’ve been sent to your place but Turns out I should have fact checked GC on his flawd wayback input, having since located it on another thread. It’s message be as pre mentioned and it speaks for itself.
CAUTION: by brushing mit Doramad radioactive toothpaste you’ll end up losing them. Just like Somerton Man as be reported in the latest fact free fancy fresh from feckless Cramer’s lengthy disertation for Josh and Anonymous tooth fairy believers. Our fact check on Wiki reveals the German brand having contained minute traces of non hazardous depleted? thorium that reported no adverse effects on teeth or health. Yet another one of CGC’s fact falacies for our files right? …well not quite; we’re happy to report that letters D-O-R-A-M-A-D are all contained in the Rubaiyat code, just as those in soon to be degreased Danetta Code available at a charity care book exchange near you.
CGC: in re your afterword on ‘Bombs & Toothpaste’ you’ve gone and done both yourself and your then colleague Peter Bowes a big blow to your “fact based” inflated ego. I thought of airing the bizzar rePete post that you emphatically agreed to. It detailed how Det. Leane had concluded on day one that SM was indeed a spy case. I decided not to on grounds that Peteb would not be at all pleased hearing his ridiculous claim repeated…Were you not aware that the body was found on 1st December 1948, and that Det. Leane did not himself come onto the case until the second week of January ’49…that’s seven long weeks beyond day one CGC….blithering idiots to the fore once more what?
Crikies forgot to update myself on CGC’s new fact check phoney boloney sheet which I assumed got shelved for its potential libelous content. Not to worry this retort on allegations that I might myself be guilty of defamation for telling some home truths about J. B. Cleland giving false testamony. There are two cases that come to mind, one that involved a fellow physician being set up for stealing from his own surgery, details of which I can obtain but can’t be bothered with, and the other from 1952? involving the death of a medical student where evidence given
Drs. Cleland and Dwyer disputed cause of death out of all proportion, Dr. Dwyer pointing to assault prior to being thrown into the Torrens with malicious intent by several perps; Then Professor Cleland attesting that it be a sure case of accidental drowning with nobody to blame but the victim. That be how the court determined the matter in spite of what newspapers of the day had to say. Truth be known was Gordon Cramer’s lass Misca of Fedosimov fame first bought the matter to Nick’s attention at CM back when William Styn and a pair of Tom Keane’s were CM top SM contenders. What can I say but hip hip hooray and touche to Cramer the framer.
CGC: care to name the tea leaf blogger that filched your doctored comparison photo referenced to by Anonymous in your very latest you beaut audio offering. Awaiting with ‘baited’ breath?
CGC: you say Spies & Sparrows be just the book for SM researches. If it’s not too much trouble, what most genuine researches are really wanting to get started on be the long promised but as yet not delivered ‘The Danetta Code Trilogy ‘ by
Christopher Gordon Cramer. Any news from the publishers would be wellcome.
CGC: I tried to read it a while ago too, went down like a rewrite of a LaCarre novel. Much preferred CM criminologist D. Morgan’s latest spell binding publication on Isdal Woman which includes interesting comparisons to the SM case; Fact based as one might expect from a prolific true crime genre author of quality. It being “Full of good, solid and well researched information” sole aim being in getting the truth of the matter out in the open, no bullshit and well recommended.
CGC: seems your Adelaide based alter E. colleague was given the same news and by the same helpful people that Peteb had contact with last year albeit without need for the time consuming FoI request. Could have done it yourself on line from top ranked fact biased BS/TS, especially in that you had been asked by Sapol to assist with aspects of the case requiring your special talents..
Peteb: It’s been a year and a week since any activity on Big Footy, not including contrived interim DD posts from the co-opted likes of ZedX, Xbow, Phoebe, Redacted @PeteDavo and Chris Cramer himself. That being the case how is it that they’re put ahead of CM, FB and Tbt as best SM blog in all categories just behind BS/TS.
Beats me, especially considering the old fellow missed the striped trousers, the PC Moss interview, the seventh letter A’s in the code and not to mention the current (unfinished) matter under discussion.
CGC: enjoyed your SM narrative as much as I did those that proceeded it whence you apparently took your lead. Anonymous visitors to your blog will be beholden for sure and will thirst for more, but a couple of notable ommissions if you don’t mind; namely that, I think you’ll find that Lyons local resident and swim partner James Lee allerted him to continued presence of the still form by the sea wall as
as the previous evening. Also by the time Const. Moss arrived at the scene two mounted hoops who were there first had decamped as had Col. Lee MC (2) who lived across the way. You also omitted to mention the arrival of Detective Sgt. H. Strangway of Glenelg? who took some time to do a thorough scenes of possible crime survey of the area; one good reason that from time of discovery to arrival of the body at Adelaide hospital three hours had elapsed. I Can hardly wait for part two of your interpretation of the facts of the matter for which you’re well known.
Along with contender Carl Webb’s timely departure from the Somerton scene, we may also bid a fond adieu to namesake non contender off the good ship Golden Fleece courtesy CGC. As for the BS/TS new theme re stolen gold from Australia in aid of the new Jewish state circa. ’48, how’s about we give due credit to convicted smuggler Helmuth Hendon for the part he played in making Israel great again.
Far as Mr. C G Cramer’s concerned it be more a case of… “Do as I say not as I do.” Yep you guessed it Clive, no need to elaborate, even Pete the Door dash dunce would have picked up on the over used idiom.
Go for it Mr. Cramer, an online adieu may bring your Anon. trolls to bay. Don’t forget the Danetta letter and best to call the ambos pre post to ensure they still have your details in their hoax files.
CGC: False alarm with breaking news from Port Augusta. You of all people should be aware that brevet Major Crime boss Des Bray be in fact a media spokesperson for Sapol and not likely to be an active working detective, certainly not at 70 plus.
For any punters interested, Chris Cramer aka zedx and partner in grime Peter Davidson aka Redacted are doing a promo for an SM doco with combined snow job on (Peteb Tbt sponsored) delays with the Coronial Inquest over at Big Tooty Tamam Shud.
CGC: any well known online plagiariser what threatens to shoot a fellow traveller and makes alleged stalking moves on the shyster’s family is hardly likely to seek permission to use the other’s SM sans likeness pics on their lowly (4th) ranked blog.
An enthralling one way conversation over Big Tooty way between Gordon Cramer and his alter ego zedex, relating specifically to the rootless bust hair that I had mentioned Ms. Fitzpatrick consigning to Astrea (intermountainforensics.com). for DNA testing in 2022. Good on you Gordon, looks like you’ve SCOOOORED again.
Gordon just can’t get the facts straight when all is said and done. In todays lie for all to see, he has Sanders as being a first class army private, whereas aforesaid never made it beyond group three private. Par for the course for a twice wounded digger who spent near four years of a six year stint on active service overseas and retired on a sixty percent disabilty pension aged twenty two.
It is an amazing coincidence that Jestyn Thomson was a nurse linked to the SM supposedly in Sydney and Elizabeth Thom’p’son’s the inquest witness’ daughter was a nurse near Sydney. Her name became Toyer. In Yamba in 1940 …but leaving.
You have to wonder whether her mother went 2500 miles to create a smokescreen about the elderly woodcutter whose scar on the leg she knew about – like a nurse.
GC: based on your latest Zedx offering on BF site, re Abbott’s intentions, might we therefore assume that he’s now gone cold on his Carl Webb contentions? That or else he’s seen a way to also re install his wife Rachel to her former status as quasi grand daughter of SM whether he be Charlie or not. Very interesting case scenario if that be a correct assessment, Indeed, indeed.
CGC: deliberate spelling and grammatical errors eg., “The Sommerton” aren’t likely to fool anyone but you and your alter egos; Most certainly not a street smart ex ‘D’ who’d be onto such an old trick quick as a flash, Gordon!
Josh: honestly can’t for the life of Brian see how your ‘alter major’ could have missed the several mentions right here relating to Mirror reporter Pat Burgess over the years.