If (like me) you are a bit of a bibliophile, you may quite enjoy a little social web site called LibraryThing, which is based around a community of bibliophiles listing all the books they own (or rather, the ones they’re happy to admit owning). Thanks to a low-tech web interface, adding your own books is a surprisingly quick process (marred only by its apparent inability to handle apostrophes in book titles effectively, *sigh*), and you can add up to 200 for free. So far, I ‘ve added most of my VMs research titles, which you can see on my LibraryThing catalogue.
But it’s then that LibraryThing starts to get interesting, because you can start to see who else there has similar bookshelves, and what they’re reading – and what you haven’t read. There are also user reviews, and various other tricksy book-related things you can do (like adding tags to books).
Which is where I wanted to start: one LibraryThing user called “morgan42” (Morgan Roussel) has a (frankly huge) book collection of all the right kind of stuff, and blogs about it etc. While searching for LibraryThing books tagged with “Voynich”, I noticed that he had applied this tag to a most unusual book..
Morgan had been reading “Egyptology: The Missing Millennium” by Okasha el Daly: this concerns the transmission of Egyptian ideas through Arabic texts over a thousand year period that most accounts simply omit. In the book’s Figure 24, there is a colour reproduction of folio 50a of British Library MS Add 25724 by the 13th-14th century Arab alchemist Abu Al-Qasim Al-‘Iraqi, which itself reproduces (with various alchemical embellishments) “A stela of King Amenemhat II (ca 1928-1895 BCE) of the Twelfth Dynasty”.
A quick web search reveals that Okasha el Daly is a professor at UCL, who revealed to a surprised world in 2004 that various Arabic alchemists were able to read hieroglyphics an entire millennium before Champollion. There’s a decent-sized UCL press release about this over on the ArcheoBlog.
All fascinating stuff: but presumably nothing to do with the Voynich Manuscript, right? Well… Morgan noticed that Al-Qasim’s drawing appears to contain the common Voynichese letter pair “ot”, clear as day. And here it is:-
Note also that the letter one to the right of the “ot” looks not unlike like a “ch” struckthrough gallows, while the letter two to its right looks not like a “4” (EVA “q”). Of course, any Voynich researcher would tell you that these letters would never appear in that order in the actual VMs: but it’s interesting, nonetheless.
So, I thought, let’s have a look at the BL catalogue entry for this ms: rather unhelpfully, it says “For description of No. 25,724, see the Catalogue, of Oriental MSS“. So I emailed the BL, and was told that “descriptions of [the BL’s Oriental MSS] are at present only available in handwritten and printed catalogues kept for consultation on the open access shelves in our Reading Room“. *sigh*
But the BL person also typed in the entry for MS 25,724 to save me the trouble of going on, which was very kind: it is “a volume containing several treatises on alchemy by Abu-l-Ka’sim al-Iraki, Balamaghus [?] al-Maghribi and others, with coloured symbolical drawings and cabbalistic writings. Arabic, 18th century“. Which then raises the question… “18th century”?
In summary: though I don’t honestly think this mysterious lettering is Voynichese, I must admit to being a little intrigued. Might the lettering in a similar 14th century Arabic document (of which this is apparently a copy) have been the specific inspiration for the Voynich’s cipher alphabet?
I asked Okasha el Daly about this phrase: he said that he had “…no clue but they may be corrupted Greek or some other deformed Egyptian scripts. They may well be some of the many alchemical symbols used in these manuscripts.”
A reasonable prediction would therefore be that this is a (possibly 18th century?) scribal corruption of stylized Ancient Greek or deformed Egyptian text – I’d guess Greek, in that the “o” is probably an omicron. But can we possibly reconstruct what that six-letter word originally was? It was located between a curious face and an alchemist at his furnace, with large ravens to the right (not shown below):-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_As%C3%ADn_Palacios
Scholar who translated many tracts from the “crabbed, strange Maghribi script of the Sufi Spaniards of a millennium ago…”
Idries Shah, The Sufis
The 14th century historian Ibn Khaldun said that in the Maghrib (West) calligraphers were trained to write whole words, while in the eastern Islamic world, they were trained to write separate letters. This difference may explain why the letter shapes in the maghribi script are different from the shapes preferred in the East; letters change shape based on the word they are in, rather than on a series of prescribed rules…
Hi Robert,
While what you say is certainly true, I don’t think the curious line of text I discussed here is corrupted Arabic calligraphy: corrupted Greek still seems far more likely. All the same, nobody can read it either way! 🙂
Cheers, ….Nick Pelling….
Connection between southern Spain and southern China is not unlikely. I won’t go into the details of the second wave of Muslim conquest in the west, but the origins of the tribes who did it were not those of the first wave, but closer to the Yemenis.
Anyway, by about the tenth century, if not earlier, as I recall, southern China was effectively an Arab colony. Now, this is where lack of my lost books is inconvenient. I think the work which speaks at length about southern China and Islamic influence was written in the 70s, probably by Blacker or one of her peers. Another possibility is Idris Shah’s book on eastern magic. Anyway, lots of fascinating stuff, and it also connects well with where I’ve got to in discussing the imagery.
I hadn’t seen this post before, Nick.
I was actually looking for something about a heap of books found in the mts of Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan, and which was written in a script which, for a moment, the locals thought very close to the Voynich script.
If this rings any bells, Nick, I’d be very glad to have the posting #.
PS. Should explain: the face which occupies so much space is drawn in Asian style.
See eg. an image (details below) the image should appear among those which result when you google “javanese traditional art”
It’s flickr image 536622442_cdd1a4979e.jpg
catalogued by flickr .. Asian art. Indonesian. Java
Here’s here’s the link which came up with it, but I don’t know if it will work directly:
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1041/536622442_cdd1a4979e.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/sftrajan/536622442/&usg=__mrgn8tX6e2xfoe0FojjJ1k8r7ic=&h=380&w=500&sz=127&hl=en&start=72&sig2=lrS-T8kQ_WX6cqOFrLcr_g&zoom=1&tbnid=INWQyhld3sB2gM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=153&ei=974MTb6eEYaivQOdlIiUDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djavanese%2Btraditional%2Bart%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1007%26bih%3D537%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C1692&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=424&vpy=93&dur=2623&hovh=196&hovw=258&tx=114&ty=145&oei=2b4MTZrGI4fRcMvJhZ4K&esq=5&page=5&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:72&biw=1007&bih=537
Nick, is there any way that you can get an enlarged, high-res version of this image? I’m interested in the style of the turban-headband thing. It appears to have a vertical roll, or ornament on one side.
Nick, is there any way that you can get an enlarged, high-res version of the manuscript detail shown in the OP? I’m interested in the style of the turban-headband thing.
Nick,
The form given the character on our right resembles that which appears on the ms as the figure for Orion, or east.
The next along may be derived from that for Scorpius
Then that for Gemini .. I could probably work out the others, if this did happen to be the underlying system. I won’t bore you with too many details, because this mayn’t be it, but if it is we have numerous allusions to such a system’s existence, and others have mentioned a figure of ’17’ for the Voynich forms. The same could well underly the oracular style of the zabur sticks.
Circular problem though, because one can’t link the sound to the figure if the language is unknown. In Egyptian, for example Orion was S3h (with diacritics), while in Arabic, Jauzar (and variants), though in Egypt also associated with gods such as Min of Coptos (the one-legged fella), or in Hellenistic times with Serapis etc. etc.
I suppose this doesn’t make a great deal of sense, but we could short-circuit the process if one could prove that zabur script is descended fairly directly from hieratic, rather than via the Phoenician-Greek letters.
The zabur script is Arabian, but not Arab, and the SA scripts are not related to Arabic script either.
I do so wish that I could delete ideas I had some years ago. Now they look as foolish to me as doubtless then they did to ‘old Voynichers’
Diane: this is probably true for every Voynich researcher ever, so I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. 😉
Not sure where else to post this
Leigh Chipman, “Cryptography in the Late Medieval Middle East: From Mosul to Venice?”
in
Robert Morrison and Tzvi Langermann, Texts in Transit in the Medieval Mediterranean.
Penn State University Press published the volume of collected essays in 2016. It’s still listed on their site, with details of the other contributions.
https://www psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-07109-1.html
Diane: same goes for a few of us on the other side of the fence.
Only one place for this wee morsell to go, so be it…Wartime forties, 40 Penzance St. New Glenelg was occupied by a J. Thomson, but by 1947 a Laycock had moved in and the aforementioned Thomson hadn’t shown up in any other local by 1950. Yeah I know so what, let’s head back to 90A Moseley street where the action is.
To set things straight, I recall Miss J. & E. Thomson lived in the Methodist Church at 36 Bath Street New Glenelg in ’48; later the same place was occupied by Mrs. B.W. Thomson from memory. So for anyone with their 1948 Gregory’s handy can see that both Penzance and Bath Sts. are closer to 90A Moseley than X marks the spot, once again, for what it’s worth.
There’s old Dusty givin’ me gyp about not sticking to the right thread and here she is posting about Jo Thomson on a thread about Egyptian/Arabic links to the VMs. I know she was once known in Middle Kingdom times as El Qobbah but still.
Oh, and I’m sorry to hear that Pete and Veg have fallen out again. I do hope it wasn’t anything to do with my linking an earlier spat between the pair in which Pete called Dusty a “deserter” and she said that Pete’s pet name was Kerrie or summat.
Anyway, down to business.
I found a photo of the whole page containing the six-letter word which Pilch thought MIGHT have been an inspiration for the VMs “cipher alphabet”:
Think those birdies are supposed to be falcons rather than ravens.
It is reproduced in this interesting article, which details El Daly’s claims (and Athanasius Kircher and Hermes Trismegistus):
https://www.aramcoworld.com/articles/2017/arab-translators-of-egypts-hieroglyphs
Hermes Trismegistus was an amalgam of Thoth and Hermes, Of course the “life-giving” Scroll of Thoth plays an important role in the 1932 film The Mummy, leading to the resurrection of Imhotep (Boris Karloff) when the words are read aloud by the hapless archaeologist.
And some more weird related shit, but I can’t read the text which is in Spanish and unreadable anyway due to the ‘orrible colours:
https://labitacoradealchemy.blogspot.com/2008/04/imgenes-de-la-alquimia-medieval-rabe-y.html
You gotta dig the depiction of the ouroboros and the two birds – one red and one black – imitating its pose. And one of the drawings looks a bit like a photo of my Neca Mummy action model in its box with all the accompaniments – spare hands and heads and all.
A talk by El Daly himself given in Manchester in 2006:
https://islam-science.net/deciphering-egyptian-hieroglyphs-in-muslim-heritage-1611/
If there is an influence from Egypt one wonders whether the Coptic script has anything to do with it.
You can even get the image as wallpaper!:
https://www.spoonflower.com/en/wallpaper/14267902-book-of-the-seven-climes-by-muhlenkott
Or fabric:
https://www.spoonflower.com/en/fabric/14267902-book-seven-climes-by-muhlenkott
And if you want the Neca Mummy figure:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/717UDQVKuGL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
You can get it a lot cheaper from Amazon US & it only took a few days to arrive. Then they refunded me £8 for being late when it was actually on time! I’ve also got the one where he’s swathed in bandages and the accessories kit complete with sarcophagus.
I’ve got a lot of others including Nosferatu, Leatherface, Freddy, Jason, Chucky, Herman Munster and of course Drac and Frankie.
Steve H. @ desert : You picked up on the Sanders @ dusty split right quick but no need to cry over spilt ilk, Bozo and me go back aways, we be having a bad trot re origins of Tbt (see my responses) at present. In re your name game on Peter Bowes real birth monicker Kerrie, suggest you check out Frederick Bowes RAAF for the Kerrie (son) reference. As for the Sanders ‘deserter’ stuff, came about consequence of my having noted in another NAA entry where dad may have won a DFC (duck for cover) in Malaya when he landed his Buffalo undercarriage up, just as a patrolling nip Zero pilot flew over Serangoon Airfield. Interesting read especially the inquest evidence of a certain accusing Rhodesian Squadran Leader with a DSO (battle of Britain) after his name. No wonder his nibs took the matter up with CM complaints debt. via Rene Zandenberg (Voynich Manu. reference); fancy me slinging shit at poor Fred (Kerrie). Had it coming I’d reckon.
Letters. a1(?)oM74. Kabbalistic numerology system: 1 =a. 7= o. 4 = M.
Dusty @ El Qobbah
My old man was out in India – ending up Kohima/Imphal way – but I have no idea what he did in the RAF except that he trained up in Blackpool and learned morse code. We Brits aren’t as obsessed with our forebears’ military derring-do as you Aussies.
As far as I know the closest he came to real action was back in Bristol, in the 25 September 1940 bombing raid on Filton Airfield (where he was working, and where they later built the British Concorde – I witnessed the very first flight on 9 April 1969 when I was playing football by meself in our back garden a couple of miles away). The door of the air raid shelter he was in blew out and the bloke nearest to it was killed.
“At 11:48 hours, sixty-eight Heinkel He 111 bombers from Stab., I., II., and III./KG 55, escorted by fifty-two Messerschmitt Bf 110s from all three Gruppen of ZG 26, crossed the Dorset coast near Weymouth and turned toward Bristol. Flying in tight formation, their target was the Bristol Aeroplane Company’s works at Filton—a key centre of British aircraft production responsible for the Blenheim bomber and the newly introduced Beaufighter.
“The bombers arrived over Filton and unleashed a 45-second saturation bombing run from 11,000 feet. A total of 168 bombs—81.5 tonnes of high explosive and 6 tonnes of oil bombs—struck the Rodney Works, the East Engine Factory, and surrounding residential areas…Tragically, 132 people were killed—91 of them company workers—and over 300 others were injured.”
https://battleofbritain1940.com/entry/wednesday-25-september-1940/
My dear pater and mater met at the Bristol Aeroplane Company when they were working there (as clerks) after the war.
I don’t care whether Bozo is called Pete, Kerrie, Periwinkle or Dantalion to be honest. He’s still an idiot.
To get back to the topic of the VMs I note that you are too frit to try and deal with my question from a couple of days ago. To quote:
“If you think the VMs is a modern forgery how do you explain the faded signature of Jacobus Hořčický de Tepenec on the manuscript? ”
And no sarcastic comments about Bonox, Botox, boners or buttocks please.
Steve H. You sure tbey were Messershcmitts, always tbought tbey were Fokkers, never mind, Can’t tell a lie, I’m not up to speed on the German bombing raids of Blighty during the blitz. As for the Concorde inaugural flights of ’69 but my main claim to fame be that I was first to spot it flying over Biggin Hill, Changi with my son in ’71 or was it ’72 from the hight tower next to my married quarters. As for your unanswered querie on Tepenec, I explained away that mystery years before you arrived on the scene. For answer I suggest you turn the page and examine the weird later day add on root ball formation and see how a part of it alligns perfectly with the ‘T’ cross in attempt to conceal part of the signature. That was before I came across the Boole solution . PS I happened to bump into Lee Kuan yeu on Changi golf course same day i spotted the Concorde, shook hand and all, how about that.
NB: Biggin Hill, RAF Changi Singapore, not the other one; my last army posing pre discharge in 1972. I never deserted to the best of my knowledge so dunno where Bozo picked up on that cheap shot.